Tomdog Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 26 minutes ago, Confrontational said: I like EEk - but he also reminds me somewhat of Coyle... I hope EEk can put up some points this year - no doubt he's looking at all those opportunities he had this past year - but they just didn't want to go in... Anyways, I hope he's one of the bright spots in the upcoming year... I think EEK will have a much better year. Last year early on he was so tentative and unsure of himself he would pass up chances for breakaways. Later in the year he was much more assertive. I am hoping Kunin can come back. Before EEK came out of his shell I liked Kunins game better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Unless Staal gets to groom the young centers don't expect much if Koivu does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confrontational Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 hour ago, rottenrefs said: Unless Staal gets to groom the young centers don't expect much if Koivu does. Staal doesn't take me as the type, even though he was a captain, that he'd be all that vocal against someone, especially Mikko. My bet is his personality is to just kind of sit back and watch what is already in place - and not want to jeopardize things... The quick documentary on him showed him to be a very calm guy - but who knows - maybe with Mikko's impending departure - Mikko knows that others need to pick it up... But, that leads right into my concern - will Mikko essentially checkout after this next year knowing that it's pure gravy all the way to the bank - and he certainly doesn't want to pick up those deposits on crutches... MN has been incredibly nice to that guy, in particular... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 @Confrontational the thing is this team has drafted what appeared to be fairly decent looking (promising) centers and they all end up like metrosexuals on ice. Every damn one of them act like they wouldn't wear a seatbelt because it would crease their sweater. Hence none of them throw checks their second year after they make the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confrontational Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 ^^ Thinking about it - could it be how we actually pick and draft these people? For example, they're all incredibly polite, and I wouldn't doubt if they say "sorry about that" when they run into an opponent... Could it be that our staff relies very heavily on "he's a nice guy and therefore I think we can mold them" - when those types of players all have that "kind gene" in their system that makes them attractive to our scouts...? EEk and Coyle have very similar styles - but also Granny, Suter, and a handful of others from a demeanor perspective - even a Pomminville - all incredibly nice and polite people... I'm talking the kind of people who just don't get all that worked up very often. Maybe that's our issue...(?) I'm not saying we need to be stalked with a bunch of Stewart-types, but maybe in addition to the system we play - there is also a personality component at play as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomdog Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I think you may be on to something. One thing the wilds scouts do is draft guys who are big, but play small. Size doesn't always turn into physicality. I'm kind of sick of seeing big guys play small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 18 hours ago, Confrontational said: ^^ Thinking about it - could it be how we actually pick and draft these people? For example, they're all incredibly polite, and I wouldn't doubt if they say "sorry about that" when they run into an opponent... Could it be that our staff relies very heavily on "he's a nice guy and therefore I think we can mold them" - when those types of players all have that "kind gene" in their system that makes them attractive to our scouts...? EEk and Coyle have very similar styles - but also Granny, Suter, and a handful of others from a demeanor perspective - even a Pomminville - all incredibly nice and polite people... I'm talking the kind of people who just don't get all that worked up very often. Maybe that's our issue...(?) I'm not saying we need to be stalked with a bunch of Stewart-types, but maybe in addition to the system we play - there is also a personality component at play as well... And we haven't changed a fair portion of our scouting staff for well over a decade; even before Fletcher got here. So of course you're probably going to see the team value certain traits over others. IMO, its a big reason why that group of people has to change. IMO, it was more important for that group to be overhauled than Fletcher himself. The old eyes Leipold was referring too, should've been saved for the scouts. Did Fletcher have rose-tinted glasses and did he overhype the young core? Yes, but the scouts also likely endorsed those choices too. Our issue is that even when we do bring in a mean player, they usually don't play that way here. Look at Marcus Foligno. He was a bit of a junkyard dog in Buffalo...here he gets his clock cleaned by an Ivy League player...and you almost had to remind him that part of his job is to drop the gloves on occasion. Part of this could also be locker room culture and I think most of us agree we see that as fundamentally flawed. We all know Kaptain Klydesdale is all bark and no bite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandron Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I think also Foligno lost his junkyard dog personality as soon as John Hayden(from Chicago) broke his jaw during the fighting at the beginning of the season (October 13, 2017).Marcus, probably, did not want to repeat the same painful feelings again. That game, in general, was extremely horrible on injuries(3) for the last season. https://www.sbnation.com/2017/10/13/16469172/john-hayden-marcus-foligno-fight-punch-injury-blackhawks-wild-nhl-2017 Good point of Confrontational - team's personality is really missing for the Wild. Hope, it will come someday with the taste of approaching to the Stanley Cup finals, the same way as it came to the Caps. We are also still missing a few talented stars capable to lead the team to that point. Maybe this coming Friday will send us a treasure during an NHL draft? . Still, I would like to see Stewart's personality at least to a half of the team. Why did we not try to put him as a captain or alternate captain for a couple months during the season, still is a question for me? It seems he was kind of an emotional person, which team is missing. As more emotional players we will have on the team as more positive drive the team will receive. I do not think the team needs the robots with amimic masks capable to play practically without any emotions and drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 10 hours ago, Alexandron said: I think also Foligno lost his junkyard dog personality as soon as John Hayden(from Chicago) broke his jaw during the fighting at the beginning of the season (October 13, 2017).Marcus, probably, did not want to repeat the same painful feelings again. That game, in general, was extremely horrible on injuries(3) for the last season. https://www.sbnation.com/2017/10/13/16469172/john-hayden-marcus-foligno-fight-punch-injury-blackhawks-wild-nhl-2017 Good point of Confrontational - team's personality is really missing for the Wild. Hope, it will come someday with the taste of approaching to the Stanley Cup finals, the same way as it came to the Caps. We are also still missing a few talented stars capable to lead the team to that point. Maybe this coming Friday will send us a treasure during an NHL draft? . Still, I would like to see Stewart's personality at least to a half of the team. Why did we not try to put him as a captain or alternate captain for a couple months during the season, still is a question for me? It seems he was kind of an emotional person, which team is missing. As more emotional players we will have on the team as more positive drive the team will receive. I do not think the team needs the robots with amimic masks capable to play practically without any emotions and drive. Actually, the Wild does have a personality. It’s called vanilla pudding. And it’s because of the captain. Mikko Koivu has all the personality of a baked potato. And as such, the team has been molded in his image. How many times has he been quoted as saying “Don’t get too high, don’t get too low...” Which may work during the season, but when you need someone to inspire the team to get it to the next level in the Playiffs or someone to carry the team, he’s not that player. Stewart, for as entertaining as he was, was never going to be captain. The Wild stopped the rotating captain thing when Leipold bought the team in 2008 when they named Koivu captain. And there is no way they are going to tick off Parise and Suter by taking the “A” from them. Either the locker room is happy with Koivu as captain, or everyone is scared of him and won’t say anything to try and change it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 10 hours ago, IllaZilla said: Actually, the Wild does have a personality. It’s called vanilla pudding. And it’s because of the captain. Mikko Koivu has all the personality of a baked potato. And as such, the team has been molded in his image. How many times has he been quoted as saying “Don’t get too high, don’t get too low...” Which may work during the season, but when you need someone to inspire the team to get it to the next level in the Playiffs or someone to carry the team, he’s not that player. Stewart, for as entertaining as he was, was never going to be captain. The Wild stopped the rotating captain thing when Leipold bought the team in 2008 when they named Koivu captain. And there is no way they are going to tick off Parise and Suter by taking the “A” from them. Either the locker room is happy with Koivu as captain, or everyone is scared of him and won’t say anything to try and change it... A friend of mine suggested taking those letters from those 3 precisely because it would anger them, as they are stuck with us as much as we are stuck with them. I said on the old boards more than once, I'd like to see "Angry Mikko." What is going to do, take it out on the Carolina Hurricanes the next time they are in St. Paul. If culture is the problem then they need to get serious about addressing it. If they don't like it, waive your NMC's and we'll ship you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Call their bluff. Take their letters away and watch then pout... In front of every other team in the league. Watch them 'pack it in' as best as they can and let history dictate the rest of their professional portfolio. I say let the headlines fly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starofthenorth Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 7 hours ago, rottenrefs said: Call their bluff. Take their letters away and watch then pout... In front of every other team in the league. Watch them 'pack it in' as best as they can and let history dictate the rest of their professional portfolio. I say let the headlines fly! I agree players like nino and Zucker aren't the problem. Boat anchors like koivu, Parise, Suter, Ennis, and dubnyk are. Why would the wild trade away the only people who are scoring and are not worthless tools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 22 minutes ago, Starofthenorth said: I agree players like nino and Zucker aren't the problem. Boat anchors like koivu, Parise, Suter, Ennis, and dubnyk are. Why would the wild trade away the only people who are scoring and are not worthless tools? (shrugs) That's a great question. The only thing I can gather is the established vets are threatened by them or they see Zucker, Nino etc as hindrances to bringing in other free agents. I have long felt; even going back to Zucker's early emergence as a speedy scorer that he was shamed for his exuberance, skill, and scoring ability. The vets hated his confidence and want to take the puck and score so they have complained to coaches, gotten his role reduced. Honestly, is there any explanation why Zucker usually has to wait until the last minute or less of 3-on-3 overtime for him to see the ice, while Koivu and other slugs get 2-3 shifts? He's your 2nd leading goal scorer and he gets little power play time and almost not opportunity in overtime. I know we kind of tease Coyle about his acts of kindness towards kids. But Zucker is about as active as it gets from a charity point of view and has all the playing intangibles I think you would want on your team (speed, scoring ability). IMO, that's a player the team should lock in if they can, not deal him while giving boring as a rice cake Koivu around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I kind of chuckle when I read about how the Wild want to deal Nino or Zucker or Coyle. Really? Lets trade away the players that can score from a team that notoriously lacks scoring options... To me, if you want to "tweak" things, you grow a pair and start playing players where they "should" be playing, not where they "want" to play, you start making players earn their ice time, not just giving it to them because they've been around forever and a day or because you want to incentivize them, and for God's sake, leave the damn prospects in Iowa until they show they can dominate or at least earn a call-up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I just don't get the need to package a decent player in a trade to remove Ennis. Trades like this never work out well. Basically, the Wild have 2 much better options. Buyout. Wild have a cap hit of $2,166,667 this year and $1,216,667 next year. The cap ceiling just raised over 5M I'm not seeing why this buyout is an issue. Put him on Waivers then send him to Iowa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 6 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: (shrugs) That's a great question. The only thing I can gather is the established vets are threatened by them or they see Zucker, Nino etc as hindrances to bringing in other free agents. I have long felt; even going back to Zucker's early emergence as a speedy scorer that he was shamed for his exuberance, skill, and scoring ability. The vets hated his confidence and want to take the puck and score so they have complained to coaches, gotten his role reduced. Honestly, is there any explanation why Zucker usually has to wait until the last minute or less of 3-on-3 overtime for him to see the ice, while Koivu and other slugs get 2-3 shifts? He's your 2nd leading goal scorer and he gets little power play time and almost not opportunity in overtime. I know we kind of tease Coyle about his acts of kindness towards kids. But Zucker is about as active as it gets from a charity point of view and has all the playing intangibles I think you would want on your team (speed, scoring ability). IMO, that's a player the team should lock in if they can, not deal him while giving boring as a rice cake Koivu around. Which has been brought up years ago when he (Zucker) kept being send back and forth to Iowa. It's all I could ever come up with going way back then and have said as much. Granted, he lacked defensive skills but so did Gaborik. Who sat Gretzky when he was young and lacked defensive skills? Nobody. Yet of course Zucker is no Gretzky but putting a damper on someone with eagerness, desire, drive, ambition... Heart? Crazy dumb. As mentioned prior to coming here to this board I noted how attractive Zucker would be for other teams if the Wild ever decided to deal him. He and his wife, so busy off the ice and with what he brings to a team anyway is like a marketing duo worthy of a really nice contract elsewhere... Especially after (in all honesty) not making much money here over the years which has always been wrongly slighted. The truth is he's always been screwed by the Wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 5 hours ago, rottenrefs said: Which has been brought up years ago when he (Zucker) kept being send back and forth to Iowa. It's all I could ever come up with going way back then and have said as much. Granted, he lacked defensive skills but so did Gaborik. Who sat Gretzky when he was young and lacked defensive skills? Nobody. Yet of course Zucker is no Gretzky but putting a damper on someone with eagerness, desire, drive, ambition... Heart? Crazy dumb. As mentioned prior to coming here to this board I noted how attractive Zucker would be for other teams if the Wild ever decided to deal him. He and his wife, so busy off the ice and with what he brings to a team anyway is like a marketing duo worthy of a really nice contract elsewhere... Especially after (in all honesty) not making much money here over the years which has always been wrongly slighted. The truth is he's always been screwed by the Wild. Tough to argue with the fact Zucker has always kind of had this team give him crap. To his credit, he hasn't complained or blamed it on others. IMO, if character is such an important thing in the way speed, skill and scoring are...how can you not want to lock a player like Zucker down and keep him here? Ennis was a salary dump from the start a way to save a bit when the Sabres took Pominville off our hands. But it seems ludicrous to trade valuable assets to get rid of one worthless one. I agree, I'd rather see them buy him out; but I'm guessing Craig is tired of covering mistakes that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starofthenorth Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I have an idea let's sign a third round prospect as a first round pick and continue to embrace losing. Good is good enough and the wild embrace weakness and mediocrity. This organization is a heaping bag of shite and they don't care about their fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.