Simmonds a "TJ Oshie" Deal?

[radoran]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-vegas-thinking-re-visiting-erik-karlsson-deal/

 

Buried down at #25 in the "31 Thoughts" podcast is a speculation that Wayne Simmonds may be in line for a "TJ Oshie" type deal.

 

Oshie's in the second year of an eight-year, $5.75M per contract signed at 30 with a modified NTC ( 2017-21: Player submits a 15 no team trade list. 2021-25: Player submits a 10 team no trade list. ). Total salary at the end is $4.5M, $5M, and $4M.

 

I'm a HUGE Wayne Simmonds fan, but I'm not sure I would go with an eight-year deal for a 30-year-old player at this point. On the flip side, the $5.75M number, quite frankly, is lower than many around here have been speculating.

 

From where I sit, if they can get him under a deal for $5.75M per - even at eight - I think they should consider it. Even if Provorov gets into the $7.5M club, they've still got around $30M in cap space for 19-20 and significant young talent bubbling under at the AHL/Juniors level that can balance out the veteran salaries at the top.

 

Eight years scares me, though.

 

Other reports have Hextall not exactly racing to sign any big deals over the summer. Which i think makes sense. If this team looks like it is going to build on what they did last season, you can still reach accords during the season with Provorov/Simmonds. If the team is floundering around come the trade deadline, you can get a haul for Simmonds.

 

(apologies if this has been discussed in the Simmonds thread - but after 14 pages, I thought it kinda deserved it's own discussion)

[OccamsRazor]

17 minutes ago, radoran said:

I'm a HUGE Wayne Simmonds fan, but I'm not sure I would go with an eight-year deal for a 30-year-old player at this point. On the flip side, the $5.75M number, quite frankly, is lower than many around here have been speculating.

 

I posted this on the Simmonds thread the other day.

 

No way i give him an 8 year deal....Ron does that and we'll have to get him fitted for a jacket.....of the straight variety...

 

...however his amount per is a good point he could sign for  say maybe 4 years tops.

 

He he would do that i could be down with it otherwise if he isn't i look to move him before the season starts.

 

I feel with a guy of his caliber if you do it before the trade deadline it could shock the team so much it would take them some time to recover.

 

I hope they can work something out. 

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, radoran said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-vegas-thinking-re-visiting-erik-karlsson-deal/

 

Buried down at #25 in the "31 Thoughts" podcast is a speculation that Wayne Simmonds may be in line for a "TJ Oshie" type deal.

 

Oshie's in the second year of an eight-year, $5.75M per contract signed at 30 with a modified NTC ( 2017-21: Player submits a 15 no team trade list. 2021-25: Player submits a 10 team no trade list. ). Total salary at the end is $4.5M, $5M, and $4M.

 

I'm a HUGE Wayne Simmonds fan, but I'm not sure I would go with an eight-year deal for a 30-year-old player at this point. On the flip side, the $5.75M number, quite frankly, is lower than many around here have been speculating.

 

From where I sit, if they can get him under a deal for $5.75M per - even at eight - I think they should consider it. Even if Provorov gets into the $7.5M club, they've still got around $30M in cap space for 19-20 and significant young talent bubbling under at the AHL/Juniors level that can balance out the veteran salaries at the top.

 

Eight years scares me, though.

 

Other reports have Hextall not exactly racing to sign any big deals over the summer. Which i think makes sense. If this team looks like it is going to build on what they did last season, you can still reach accords during the season with Provorov/Simmonds. If the team is floundering around come the trade deadline, you can get a haul for Simmonds.

 

(apologies if this has been discussed in the Simmonds thread - but after 14 pages, I thought it kinda deserved it's own discussion)

 

Not after this year.  Hextall might try to ink him to a sweetheart deal (again) before the season gets too deep if he thinks he'll recover.  Or maybe even in the summertime.

 

I think the general feeling is that if that's what it's going to take to keep Simmer, we all want him to get the money we deserve and I think we all prefer that he get it from someone else.  

 

[Claude Monet]

If that is the contract he is in line for then I trade him for the 2 first round picks that go with a player of that value.

[ruxpin]

14 hours ago, Claude Monet said:

If that is the contract he is in line for then I trade him for the 2 first round picks that go with a player of that value.

This. He's been my favorite player for awhile. Konecny has become neck and neck, but I really like Simmonds. 

 

I really don't like 8 years. He deserves to get paid and I wish the best for him, but I get what I can for him. 

 

The thing is, they do have the cap room for the next 2-3 years that they could really compensate him for that term. After that, the salary would really get in the way of Hextall's long-term perennial contender aspirations. 

[Jam1986]

Bye Simmer.

[King Knut]

17 hours ago, ruxpin said:

This. He's been my favorite player for awhile. Konecny has become neck and neck, but I really like Simmonds. 

 

I really don't like 8 years. He deserves to get paid and I wish the best for him, but I get what I can for him. 

 

The thing is, they do have the cap room for the next 2-3 years that they could really compensate him for that term. After that, the salary would really get in the way of Hextall's long-term perennial contender aspirations. 

 

It's unrealistic and I don't think Ron's going to do it. After Pronger, I don't think the Flyers are interested in signing anyone to be a Flyer past 37 years of age unless it's a 1 year deal when they're 36.  That shouldn't stop Simmer from getting paid somewhere.  

[murraycraven]

22 hours ago, radoran said:

I'm a HUGE Wayne Simmonds fan, but I'm not sure I would go with an eight-year deal for a 30-year-old player at this point. On the flip side, the $5.75M number, quite frankly, is lower than many around here have been speculating.

 

I am "YUGE" fan as well but Ron would be off his rocker if he gave that term.  Hate to say it but it is either Simmonds wants to stay in Philly and takes the discount or he wants to cash out.  I am okay with giving him a bit more per year but the deal can't exceed 4 years for me.   

 

 

[flyercanuck]

Love the Wayne Train. Want no part of 8 years though. 5 I can live with. Depending on the amount. I'd also be in for a trade for a couple 1sts or quality prospects.

[AJgoal]

I agree. I personally can't imagine the Flyers without Simmonds, but I also couldn't imagine them without Lindros. It has to happen at some point, now makes the most sense.

[murraycraven]

thought I would share this from Meltzer.  Was from the comments section on HB:

 

 

OK, this is strictly my own take based on a gut feeling. Ron Hextall keeps everything close to the vest.

However, from the gist of what I've heard from those I know in and/or are trusted by the upper-levels in the organization, I would not be surprised if they are fine with listening to offers for Simmonds. I also think they are NOT inclined to move him at the end of the day unless it is a no-brainer in Hextall's own estimation. 

Otherwise, the intention appears to be to try to resign him, even if it goes into next season without a new deal. There is a goal internally to push the regular season point total over 100 points and to win a playoff round but without dealing assets/ prospects or pursuing the top-of-the-line external free agents. That's going to require all hands on deck to do.

Hextall is very big on the intangibles. If you listened to Anthony SF's podcast with Hexy last week, the GM talked a lot about fit within the room, general work habits and a player's desire to be a Flyer as things he factors along with all the on-ice stuff. It was said in reference to NHL-level roster decisions and not the Draft, in this case.

I know for an absolute fact that the players in the room consider Simmonds to be the guy who internally operates as the bad cop when needed yet is deeply respected and admired. Unless it's for a bigger return than the Flyers are likely to get, it would likely go over poorly within the room if he's traded. That is especially true on the heels of all that he played through this past season and the way he has everyone else's back on the ice and in public. Simmonds wears his heart on his sleeve, and wants to spend the rest of his career as a Flyer. He's said as much, but everyone knew it, anyway.

Is it impossible that Simmonds gets traded, whether at the Draft or by the trade deadline of next season? No. 

Right now, though, it would take a lot of incentive to do so, and not primarily a draft pick asset in his particular case. The teams that are picking atop the Draft aren't the market where Simmonds would be their main off-season target. And what team that is a Simmonds type away from Cup contention would trade from its fast-rising young NHL roster talent plus a conditional high-end pick (even if it is in 2019) to do it, because I think that is the price tag the Flyers would have in mind. 

Again, I could be proven 100 percent wrong. It's just my read. 

[vis]

Love Simmonds, but like most others, I don't see signing him for 8 years as a good investment.  He plays a physically demanding style which I fear will catch up to him quickly (as it did this year).  I even get nervous with 5 years.  I'd be happy to trade a higher cap hit for less term, especially given where the Flyers project, cap-wise, in the near future.

[ruxpin]

44 minutes ago, vis said:

Love Simmonds, but like most others, I don't see signing him for 8 years as a good investment.  He plays a physically demanding style which I fear will catch up to him quickly (as it did this year).  I even get nervous with 5 years.  I'd be happy to trade a higher cap hit for less term, especially given where the Flyers project, cap-wise, in the near future.

 

Yeah, I kind of view him similarly to Corey Perry, who at only 33 has really fallen off.   5 years is fine, but I think we really regret it on the backend of that.  And 8 years is just a flat out disaster.  And I hate it that I'm typing this about Simmonds.

[King Knut]

4 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yeah, I kind of view him similarly to Corey Perry, who at only 33 has really fallen off.   5 years is fine, but I think we really regret it on the backend of that.  And 8 years is just a flat out disaster.  And I hate it that I'm typing this about Simmonds.

 

It's only difficult because we like him so much.  

I like him so much that I'll be sincerely happy if he gets an Oshie deal from another team.  I just hope they're good to him and they don't flat out suck.

 

 

[ruxpin]

23 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

It's only difficult because we like him so much.  

I like him so much that I'll be sincerely happy if he gets an Oshie deal from another team.  I just hope they're good to him and they don't flat out suck.

 

 

Yep. That describes my thoughts on it pretty well. 

[vis]

10 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yeah, I kind of view him similarly to Corey Perry, who at only 33 has really fallen off.   5 years is fine, but I think we really regret it on the backend of that.  And 8 years is just a flat out disaster.  And I hate it that I'm typing this about Simmonds.

Fair comparison to Perry.  

 

And agree about hating the discussion.

 

On a related note, is Simmonds the one Flyer that has no detractors?  I can't think of anyone criticizing his play generally (of course people complain about a game here and there).  He's pretty universally beloved, right?

[ruxpin]

7 hours ago, vis said:

 

On a related note, is Simmonds the one Flyer that has no detractors?  I can't think of anyone criticizing his play generally (of course people complain about a game here and there).  He's pretty universally beloved, right?

Pretty much yes.  There were some I've seen during the season this year railing on his play that didn't seem to want to understand how badly hurt he was but was still playing. 

 

That frustrated me a little because I didn't think it took much to know that.  But otherwise yeah, the like seems universal. 

[mojo1917]

@ruxpin @vis

Simmonds is one of my favorites, but I have criticized his play in the defensive zone. 

He is frequently on lines that get hemmed in by good forechecking. He and Schenn were often disastrous...  I don't know if it's matchup driven, but I do know he and his mates seem to be the guys who chase the play, at least anecdotally. I'm sure there are metrics to prove me wrong, but I think he isn't a strong puck possession guy, which is weird because he is not a wuss on the puck and plays in the "man" areas.  

All that said, I love the guy in the room/community and on the ice, I would be sad if he were no longer a Flyer.

[ruxpin]

36 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@ruxpin @vis

Simmonds is one of my favorites, but I have criticized his play in the defensive zone. 

He is frequently on lines that get hemmed in by good forechecking. He and Schenn were often disastrous...  I don't know if it's matchup driven, but I do know he and his mates seem to be the guys who chase the play, at least anecdotally. I'm sure there are metrics to prove me wrong, but I think he isn't a strong puck possession guy, which is weird because he is not a wuss on the puck and plays in the "man" areas.  

All that said, I love the guy in the room/community and on the ice, I would be sad if he were no longer a Flyer.

I'm not sure I agree. He waa pretty decent on the penalty kill, so I don't question his defensive ability. 

 

I do question his possession or defensive ability with a torn everything he owns.  And with Filppula. 

 

Prior to all of that, I thought he was pretty sound in that regard. Mine, too, is only anecdotally, though.  So maybe just difference in perception. 

 

I'm not good at the advanced stats, so I'll leave that to smarter people than me. 

[murraycraven]

39 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

so I'll leave that to smarter people than me. 

 

If we take the mean of the independent variable of Corsi and consider a bi-level factor...

 

Oh ****.... who am I kidding.

 

Although, I do agree w/ your post but did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.   So there is that....

[pilldoc]

1 hour ago, murraycraven said:

 

If we take the mean of the independent variable of Corsi and consider a bi-level factor...

 

Oh ****.... who am I kidding.

 

Although, I do agree w/ your post but did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.   So there is that....

 

Post of the Day! LOL .......

[vis]

8 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Pretty much yes.  There were some I've seen during the season this year railing on his play that didn't seem to want to understand how badly hurt he was but was still playing. 

 

That frustrated me a little because I didn't think it took much to know that.  But otherwise yeah, the like seems universal. 

Can you think of any other Flyer in recent memory that had enjoyed the same universal fan support? 

[ruxpin]

32 minutes ago, vis said:

Can you think of any other Flyer in recent memory that had enjoyed the same universal fan support? 

No. Maybe Gagne or LeClair. But it's few and I may not even be remembering those clearly. 

[AJgoal]

36 minutes ago, vis said:

Can you think of any other Flyer in recent memory that had enjoyed the same universal fan support? 

 

Petr Mrazek.

[vis]

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

No. Maybe Gagne or LeClair. But it's few and I may not even be remembering those clearly. 

Yeah, probably those two players.  Moreso Leclair.  Gagne got dogged at times for being a little soft and I remember people wanting to trade him at times.  People complained about Leclair's last contract.