IllaZilla Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 2 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: I've seen a lot of places tag it to a 200 game threshold but I haven't really felt that really meant a player was a 'success' either. IMO, its relative to what the player was expected to be. Patrik Stefan played in almost 500 games, had almost 200 points does that make him a success? I don't think so. I just picked 200+ games because that's just shy of three seasons, and if a player can stick with a team for that long, they'll usually stick in the NHL. Has no reference to "success". To me, success is a relative term. Your Patrik Stefan example is is a good one. Based on the number of games played, yes, he's a success. Based on where he was drafted for what he produced, I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 2 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: 44% of players the Wild draft make it to the NHL This was an article I saw a few weeks ago from the Wild's propaganda site, StateofHockey.com (which I think is why they took steps to file that Cease and Desist order for my old name State of Hockey News). I feel this article is deceptive because in the first draft, the Wild intentionally drafted older European players to fill out their roster and did so for the first few seasons which were guys they knew they were going to give NHL auditions to which skews the percentage IMO. The article is extremely deceptive. They are counting players that played one NHL game as a success. So by that definition, Kris Focault is a success because he played one NHL game. Also, they are looking at the year end roster. Why didn't they look at the 23 man roster that played most of the season rather than the end of season roster where everyone calls up their farm kids? And claiming DR had a better record than Fletcher is deceptive as well, since DR drafted a bunch of older Euros to fill out the roster (Sekeras, Shushinski, Bartos, Brandner) rather than take younger CHL guys. GAAAAHHHH! I could go through that whole article and poke holes in their "logic". And you don't compare the Wild to only the Pens and the Caps. You compare them to the rest of the league! One thing they failed to mention when comparing the Caps and the Pens to the Wild. Both teams drafted GAMEBREAKERS in the form of Ovechkin and Crosby. The Wild HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT. So to sit there and act like the draft isn't a big part of getting a Cup, um, yeah it is. Do they think that the Pens would have won all those cups by not drafting Crosby, Malkin, Fleury and Letang? What about Chicago's recent Cup run? Do they think Chicago draftees Towes, Kane, Seabrook, and Keith had nothing to do with it? If the draft isn't important, then why do they pay all those scouts to go all over looking at players? Why don't they just fire all of them and then hand the GM the ISS sheet and have him make the picks off of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 26 minutes ago, IllaZilla said: I just picked 200+ games because that's just shy of three seasons, and if a player can stick with a team for that long, they'll usually stick in the NHL. Has no reference to "success". To me, success is a relative term. Your Patrik Stefan example is is a good one. Based on the number of games played, yes, he's a success. Based on where he was drafted for what he produced, I think not. Fair enough. I am sure that's kind of why that number was used in Kurtt's article too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMahon 6 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 5 hours ago, rottenrefs said: While the Wild desperately fail to hit a home-run with their #1 picks I sit back almost disinterested until the later rounds And the cursed combination of bad management and bad luck continues for Minnesota sports franchises. We seem to have a knack for landing the #4 pick in a three deep lottery, or worse yet, blowing a #1 pick on some dude like Brian Lawton. As the first round was progressing, I probably wasn't the only one saying "please Lord, let K'Andre Miller drop two more spots and into our laps." No such luck. I've gotta agree with the posters who suggested trading down for more picks later might've been the best move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 3 hours ago, McMahon 6 said: And the cursed combination of bad management and bad luck continues for Minnesota sports franchises. We seem to have a knack for landing the #4 pick in a three deep lottery, or worse yet, blowing a #1 pick on some dude like Brian Lawton. As the first round was progressing, I probably wasn't the only one saying "please Lord, let K'Andre Miller drop two more spots and into our laps." No such luck. I've gotta agree with the posters who suggested trading down for more picks later might've been the best move. I was on the HockeyForums chat (which by the way, everyone should try that place out, especially on game nights) and when the Rangers traded up and selected him I started to swear like a sailor. Yet at the time...I was like its ok, there is at least some other good players around. Then we made our pick...far more swearing. My dad joined in the swearing and we both ripped the team as the broadcasters fell over themselves trying to somehow justify why the Wild went so far off the board at this point in the draft considering who else was available. I almost wish I had the conversation recorded...as we related the awful selection to the team's phony pledges to be a championship team. My dad certainly brought up other Minnesota teams in the rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 41 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said: I was on the HockeyForums chat (which by the way, everyone should try that place out, especially on game nights) and when the Rangers traded up and selected him I started to swear like a sailor. Yet at the time...I was like its ok, there is at least some other good players around. Then we made our pick...far more swearing. My dad joined in the swearing and we both ripped the team as the broadcasters fell over themselves trying to somehow justify why the Wild went so far off the board at this point in the draft considering who else was available. I almost wish I had the conversation recorded...as we related the awful selection to the team's phony pledges to be a championship team. My dad certainly brought up other Minnesota teams in the rant. I just can't figure out how Fenton and Flahr can sit there with a straight face and say they took the best player available when Joseph Velano, Dominik Bokk, Bode Wilde, Adam Ginning, Alexander Alexeyev and a host of others were still available... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 10 hours ago, IllaZilla said: Here is the Wild's draft record from 2009-2013 (Early Fletcher years). 2009 - 8 picks - 1,3,4,4,6,6,7,7 Leddy (t-CHI) (1, #16, 578 gms), Hackett (3, #77, 26 NHL gms), Focault (4, #103, 1 NHL gm), Kuemper (LA/PHX) (6, #161, 131 NHL gms), Haula (VGK) (7, #182, 342 NHL gms) 2010 - 6 picks - 1,2,2,2,6,7 Granlund (1, #9, 398 NHL gms), Bulmer (2, #39, 17 NHL gms) Larsson (t-BUF) (2, #56, 258 NHL gms), Zucker (2, #59, 330 NHL gms) 2011 - 6 picks - 1,1,2,5,6,7 Brodin (1, #10, 404 NHL gms), Seeler (5, #131, 22 NHL gms), Graovac (t-WAS) (7, #191, 62 NHL gms) 2012 - 7 picks - 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Dumba (1, #7, 310 NHL gms), Christoph Baertschy (6, 158, 9 NHL gms) 2013 - 7 picks - 2,3,4,5,6,7,7 Olofsson (2, #46, 56 NHL gms), Gabriel (3, #81, 16 NHL gms), Soucy (5, #137, 3 NHL gms) Depends on what our definition of finding late round talent is. Do they have to just appear with the NHL club (Focault played in one NHL game), or do they have to stick with the NHL club (Like Granlund), or do they have to stick with another NHL club (Like Leddy, never played for Wild but has played for 8 seasons in NHL, or Haula, played for Wild and currently on Vegas roster)... I get it, but when hardly any of the 1st round draft picks are playing any better than mid-range roles (for the Wild) and others given up on or traded to other teams flourish to a degree... Or their lower drafted players are seeing more promise over the same course of time one has to wonder. I probably should have broken this down among three primary players. Granlund, Zucker and Haula. Haula's going into his 10th season. Granlund and Zucker going into their 9th season. Granlund has probably seen twice as much ice time than Zucker and Haula's maybe seen a third of the ice time as Granlund. Yet all three of them you could cover with a dime comparing their stats from last year. A 7th rounder seen as a player the Wild can't keep (Haula) versus two guys drafted 1st and 2nd round seeing far more ice time aren't strides ahead of him. Oh wait - they were strides ahead of Haula - before he landed on another team who knew how the phuck to play him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 A comparison of Johannson to other picks at #24 over the last 10 years. 2018 - Wild Filip Johansson Ht/Wt:6' 1"/176 lbs Position:RHD Team: Leksand Jr. (SWE-JR.) 2017 - Jets Kristian Vesalainen Ht/Wt:6' 3"/205 lbs Position:LW Team: Frolunda (SWE) 2016 - Ducks Max Jones Ht/Wt:6' 3""/200 lbs Position:LW Team: London (OHL) 2015 - Flyers Travis Konecny Ht/Wt:5'10""/172 lbs Position:C/RW Team: Ottawa 67's (OHL) 2014 - Canucks Jared McCann Ht/Wt:6' 0""/180 lbs Position:C Team: Sault Ste. Marie (OHL) 2013 - Canucks Hunter Shinkaruk Ht/Wt:5'11""/175 lbs Position:C/RW Team: Medicine Hat (WHL) 2012 - Predators Malcolm Subban Ht/Wt:6' 1""/178 lbs Position:G Team: Belleville (OHL) 2011 - Senators Matt Puempel Ht/Wt:6/190 lbs Position:LW Team: Peterborough (OHL) 2010 - Blackhawks Kevin Hayes Ht/Wt:6.02/175 lbs Position:RW Team:Nobles (Mass. HS) 2009 - Capitals Marcus Johansson Ht/Wt:5.11.5/180 lbs Position:LW Drafted From:Farjestads (SJ18A) 2008 - New Jersey Mattias Tedenby Ht/Wt:5.09/161 lbs Position:LW Drafted From:HV71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Konecny would be nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said: Konecny would be nice... Yes, and Hextall moved up to take him in that draft. Hextall said in this draft it was kind of boring. He tried to move a few times and there weren't any takers. But realistically looking at that list there isn't many game breakers at #24. A few role players though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WileyOz44 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 its always going to be a crap shoot especially after the first round but "we just plain suck at drafting" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 14 hours ago, IllaZilla said: I just can't figure out how Fenton and Flahr can sit there with a straight face and say they took the best player available when Joseph Velano, Dominik Bokk, Bode Wilde, Adam Ginning, Alexander Alexeyev and a host of others were still available... Serron Noel too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 9 hours ago, hf101 said: Yes, and Hextall moved up to take him in that draft. Hextall said in this draft it was kind of boring. He tried to move a few times and there weren't any takers. But realistically looking at that list there isn't many game breakers at #24. A few role players though. Wild didn't take him...we could have though. Just as we could've had Boeser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyShelf Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Anyone who watched Boeser play instate (my son played against him - saw him more than enough), and then at UND, could see that he was a big, driven, goal scorer (think Koivu sized with no sense of entitlement, coupled with some balls and skill). I find myself continuously disgusted when the Wild take/acquire 'one of us,' but always take/acquire the wrong 'one,' or trade the right 'one' - Leddy for fricken CAM BARKER?!? (Whoever supported that deal or missing on drafting Boeser should have been immediately dismissed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 On 7/1/2018 at 11:24 PM, EmptyShelf said: Anyone who watched Boeser play instate (my son played against him - saw him more than enough), and then at UND, could see that he was a big, driven, goal scorer (think Koivu sized with no sense of entitlement, coupled with some balls and skill). I find myself continuously disgusted when the Wild take/acquire 'one of us,' but always take/acquire the wrong 'one,' or trade the right 'one' - Leddy for fricken CAM BARKER?!? (Whoever supported that deal or missing on drafting Boeser should have been immediately dismissed). Then dismiss me. I wasn't a big fan of Nick Leddy. His season with the Gophers was pretty underwhelming. I didn't think he was going to amount to much at the NHL level; however what annoyed me in that deal was that we traded Kim Johnsson (at the time, our best defenseman) AND Nick Leddy for Cam Barker. Leddy seemed to be thrown in as a gift...and obviously we all know how that turned out. But at the time I didn't think Leddy was anything special. I am not sure I'd say he's a special player but the team certainly could've used him over the years. Especially after big misses like Gillies, Cuma, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I still think Johansson is a solid #1 pick at #24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 10 hours ago, hf101 said: I still think Johansson is a solid #1 pick at #24. Yea, he's great in drills...that tells us a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Check Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 7/3/2018 at 8:40 AM, CreaseAndAssist said: Then dismiss me. I wasn't a big fan of Nick Leddy. His season with the Gophers was pretty underwhelming. I didn't think he was going to amount to much at the NHL level; however what annoyed me in that deal was that we traded Kim Johnsson (at the time, our best defenseman) AND Nick Leddy for Cam Barker. Leddy seemed to be thrown in as a gift...and obviously we all know how that turned out. But at the time I didn't think Leddy was anything special. I am not sure I'd say he's a special player but the team certainly could've used him over the years. Especially after big misses like Gillies, Cuma, etc. I can't begin to understand Nick Leddy's mindset. Last year a MINUS 42 (minus 34 worse than the next Isles D)!!! And can remember when Q wouldn't let him even see the ice for the entire 3rd period in several crucial Hawk's playoff games. A guy with his offensive skills and skating ability has got to be mailing it in when he's (supposedly/allegedly) defending. Despite fan sentiment, IMO the Leddy trade doesn't even come close to CF's worst blunders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 2 hours ago, 4Check said: I can't begin to understand Nick Leddy's mindset. Last year a MINUS 42 (minus 34 worse than the next Isles D)!!! And can remember when Q wouldn't let him even see the ice for the entire 3rd period in several crucial Hawk's playoff games. A guy with his offensive skills and skating ability has got to be mailing it in when he's (supposedly/allegedly) defending. Despite fan sentiment, IMO the Leddy trade doesn't even come close to CF's worst blunders. The Islanders probably had the worst goaltending in the league... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Check Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 51 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said: The Islanders probably had the worst goaltending in the league... Yeah, they were the worst when Leddy (-42) was on the ice. The other top 5 D ranged from -8 to +20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 21 minutes ago, 4Check said: Yeah, they were the worst when Leddy (-42) was on the ice. The other top 5 D ranged from -8 to +20. They still have suspect goaltending...I don't the group is as bad as the +/- indicates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Check Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 1 hour ago, CreaseAndAssist said: They still have suspect goaltending...I don't the group is as bad as the +/- indicates. Agree on the suspect goaltending. But I will continue to be amazed how one of 7 regular D can have a -34 gap from the next closest teammate on the backline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 52 minutes ago, 4Check said: Agree on the suspect goaltending. But I will continue to be amazed how one of 7 regular D can have a -34 gap from the next closest teammate on the backline. Leddy was speculated as a trade target during the last deadline...my guess is if he keeps putting up big - #'s like that, that will continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 (shrugs) What Team Sweden does means little to me. There could be a lot of reasons for Johansson replacing Sandin. He's done ok at the scrimmages but again...its a mostly non-contact scrimmage against same-aged peers. Its certainly not NHL calibre play, yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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