Ghost and his 2012 draft class

[brelic]

I was reading an article this morning talking about Yakupov and how the 2012 1st round in general was quite weak comparatively.

 

That was also the year the Flyers drafted Ghost in the 3rd round. Man, what a gem he turned out to be!

 

He is 5th in points (with 100+ fewer games played than anyone above him), and he's 2nd in PPG behind only Forsberg.

 

Love this guy and love the way he plays the game. 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

Flyers have done pretty decent in the 3rd round. Thanks to good scouts.

 

Ghost, Sandstrom, Friedman, Bunnaman, and Ustimenko is some solid prospects found.

 

Even Goulbourne if you want to count him maybe.

 

However with that pick i was upset they didn't take Duclair, Bjorkstrand or Buchnevich.

 

Could have taken Guentzel too.

[terp]

If Ghost is a gem, what’s Jacob Slavin? 

[elmatus]

6 hours ago, terp said:

If Ghost is a gem, what’s Jacob Slavin? 

 

I feel like I'm missing a punch line. I'll go with "not Ghost"?

[terp]

As well as an absolute steal at #120.

[elmatus]

On 7/1/2018 at 9:28 PM, terp said:

As well as an absolute steal at #120.

 

I’m still confused, and I’m sure it’s all on me. Are we comparing Ghost to Slavin? Cause i’ll take two more Ghosts.

[terp]

Different players.  But look at the TOI.  I’m sure his possession stats are great as well though haven’t looked.  Great penalty killer too.  A top 2 and certainly top 4 that matches up with opponents’ top offensive players.  Picked 120th in the same draft as Ghost.   I would trade Ghost and something else for him without thinking about it much.

[elmatus]

18 hours ago, terp said:

 I would trade Ghost and something else for him without thinking about it much.

 

Yeah? Well, to each his own I suppose. May I ask why though? I'm asking honestly, as I really don't watch Slavin. All I have to go on are numbers for Slavin and of course watching Ghost. I'm always interested in learning more about a player I don't know or haven't heard much about really. Slavin would qualify in that regard.

 

From a numbers perspective:

 

Ghost (2017-18)

65PTS (33PPP), +10, 221SoG, Rel. Corsi 3.2, Point Share (O&D combined) 9.8, TOI/GP 21:27

 

Slavin (2017-18)

30PTS (2PPP), +1, 154SoG, Rel. Corsi -0.1, Point Share (O&D) 6.2, TOI/GP 22:35

 

Based on what I see in advanced stats, Slavin is deployed more defensively. He gets more defensive zone starts than Ghost does (42% vs 53%).

 

To be frank though, Ghost is in the top tier with regards to offensive dmen in the league right now (4th in PTS league-wide last year), and he got much better defensively last year. Despite their relatively weaker play in the playoffs, Ghost and Provo combined to form one of the best defensive pairings in the league last year with regards to regaining puck possession and transitioning to create chances the other way. I know I'm looking forward to see if they can become even better in 2018-19.

 

That said, I don't watch Carolina unless it's vs the O&B. It's entirely possible Slavin is much better than I realize. Maybe he's primed for a breakout season or something.

 

I do feel you're selling Ghost short mind you. Are you thinking Sanheim could take Ghost's place? It's possible, but losing out on our best quarterback on such a gamble would seem very premature to me. Looking at Slavin's stats like this, I feel we have our own much better version of Slavin in Provo already. I have a feeling Sanheim will turn out to be better than advertised as well in his time.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would take Slavin, but I definitely wouldn't trade Ghost for him. I don't feel he fills a need for us right now, especially not with all the blue line talent we have coming up. Ghost is a much harder commodity to come by imo. Until someone else steps up to replace his skill set and production, he really shouldn't be going anywhere.

 

Again, it's entirely possible I'm missing something...

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

I'm asking honestly, as I really don't watch Slavin.

 

Well I do living down here in the Carolinas.

 

He is a very good find I will say that.

 

He does a lot of things pretty well but nothing real great.

 

I would take him on the Flyers he is a good 3rd 4th Dman.

 

I would take him on the 2nd pair with Sanheim.

[mkscrewy]

Obviously we blew it bc we didn’t get both

[flyercanuck]

On 7/4/2018 at 1:54 AM, terp said:

Different players.  But look at the TOI.  I’m sure his possession stats are great as well though haven’t looked.  Great penalty killer too.  A top 2 and certainly top 4 that matches up with opponents’ top offensive players.  Picked 120th in the same draft as Ghost.   I would trade Ghost and something else for him without thinking about it much.

 

I like Slavin...but I'm pretty sure if we had him and the Canes had Ghost people would gladly trade Slavin and something else for Ghost. The grass is always greener somewhere else in Philly.

[flyercanuck]

4 hours ago, mkscrewy said:

Obviously we blew it bc we didn’t get both

 

Just like everyone else.

[elmatus]

20 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well I do living down here in the Carolinas.

 

He is a very good find I will say that.

 

He does a lot of things pretty well but nothing real great.

 

I would take him on the Flyers he is a good 3rd 4th Dman.

 

I would take him on the 2nd pair with Sanheim.

 

Would you trade away Ghost for him though? That was the crux of it above. 

[OccamsRazor]

43 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

Would you trade away Ghost for him though? That was the crux of it above. 

 

Hell no.

[terp]

19 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Hell no.

I mentioned Slavin because he was picked more than 40 picks after Gostisbehere and plays a prominent role on his team.  He plays more than Ghost (significantly more TOI) and signed a 7-year deal, so he’s clearly a prominent part of his team (just substantiating this last comment for anyone who’s unfamiliar). Comparisons are difficult because they are and because they play opposite styles.  In response to a couple comments, I’ll acknowledge that they are probably of equal value on the market and to their teams.

 

Gostisbehere will always be a defensive liability, if only because of his size, so I’ll leave you with this: I expect that he will eventually be traded (in the next couple

years) as more well rounded Flyers’ defense prospects take a more prominent role with the club.  

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, terp said:

Gostisbehere will always be a defensive liability

 

I disagree i have seen growth from him on his defense...yet he will always be known as a offensive defenseman.

 

I can live with that and i think his defense will continue to trend upwards.

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, terp said:

if only because of his size

 

 

Sometimes all that matters is the size of your heart....which he has plenty of.

 

There were 10 defensemen taken with the 1st 60 picks in this past draft as short as Ghost. 6 of them in the 1st round.

 

Slavin is a good defenseman no doubt. The Canes are happy and the Flyers as well as i am happy with Ghost.

 

 

[flyercanuck]

40 minutes ago, terp said:

I mentioned Slavin because he was picked more than 40 picks after Gostisbehere and plays a prominent role on his team.  He plays more than Ghost (significantly more TOI) and signed a 7-year deal, so he’s clearly a prominent part of his team (just substantiating this last comment for anyone who’s unfamiliar). Comparisons are difficult because they are and because they play opposite styles.  In response to a couple comments, I’ll acknowledge that they are probably of equal value on the market and to their teams.

 

Gostisbehere will always be a defensive liability, if only because of his size, so I’ll leave you with this: I expect that he will eventually be traded (in the next couple

years) as more well rounded Flyers’ defense prospects take a more prominent role with the club.  

 

Offensive players always have more value...whether that's fair or not (it's not) it's the way it is. They have played almost exactly the same amount of NHL games and Ghost has twice as many points. That tells me teams would value him more.

 

We already have an excellent 2 way dman in Provorov, another in the pipeline in Myers and stay at home guys in Morin and Ginning. Sanheim brings more offence, but what's wrong with rolling out wave after wave of offence from the blueline? 

 

The only way Ghost gets traded is for an offer Hextall can't refuse.

[terp]

Maybe.  Depends on how much of a defensive liability Ghost is versus how

much less offensively you get out of the group minus Ghost.  Plus return on a trade and salary considerations.  We may be on on opposite sides of that whole question.

[OccamsRazor]

Ghost is cheaper to by 800K i happy with it.

 

He had a much better year this past year compared to the year before while getting over abdominal surgery.

 

If they can just put him on a pair and leave him i think he'll get even better.

[brelic]

Ghost doesn’t just put up points, like say Simmonds (when healthy). 

 

Ghost creates offense because cause of the way he thinks and plays the game. He’s a dynamic offensive force and makes things happen. 

 

I’d say there are fewer than a dozen defenseman with his offensive instincts in the NHL.  You don’t just trade those away. 

[flyercanuck]

14 hours ago, terp said:

Maybe.  Depends on how much of a defensive liability Ghost is versus how

much less offensively you get out of the group minus Ghost.  Plus return on a trade and salary considerations.  We may be on on opposite sides of that whole question.

 

 Salary? The 4th highest scoring defenceman in the league was tied for 60th highest paid defenceman. That's a bargoon no matter which way you look at it.

[OccamsRazor]

Shayne Gostisbehere, not Ivan Provorov, cracks NHL Network's top 20 active defensemen

https://www.nhl.com/news/top-20-defensemen-nhl-top-players-2018-19/c-299726154?tid=290583266

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/flyers/shayne-gostisbehere-not-ivan-provorov-cracks-nhl-networks-top-20-active-defensemen

 

17. Shayne Gostisbehere, Philadelphia Flyers

Gostisbehere had 65 points last season (26 more than in 2016-17), including an NHL career-high 52 assists. He finished fourth in points among NHL defensemen, his 33 power-play points tops at the position. His plus-10 rating was his best since joining the Flyers full-time in 2015-16. The 25-year-old played an NHL career-high 21:27 per game last season, up from 19:36 in 2016-17. He has increased his hits and blocked shots totals in each of the past two seasons.

 

"He really came into his own last year. This kid is dynamic, and for me, I think there are some defensive liabilities, but because how offensive the game has become and defensemen being part of that offense, Gostisbehere can do it all. He's shifty and can make a pass in the blink of an eye for a great scoring chance."

 

#noloveforprovocop

 

[flyercanuck]

6 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Shayne Gostisbehere, not Ivan Provorov, cracks NHL Network's top 20 active defensemen

https://www.nhl.com/news/top-20-defensemen-nhl-top-players-2018-19/c-299726154?tid=290583266

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/flyers/shayne-gostisbehere-not-ivan-provorov-cracks-nhl-networks-top-20-active-defensemen

 

17. Shayne Gostisbehere, Philadelphia Flyers

Gostisbehere had 65 points last season (26 more than in 2016-17), including an NHL career-high 52 assists. He finished fourth in points among NHL defensemen, his 33 power-play points tops at the position. His plus-10 rating was his best since joining the Flyers full-time in 2015-16. The 25-year-old played an NHL career-high 21:27 per game last season, up from 19:36 in 2016-17. He has increased his hits and blocked shots totals in each of the past two seasons.

 

"He really came into his own last year. This kid is dynamic, and for me, I think there are some defensive liabilities, but because how offensive the game has become and defensemen being part of that offense, Gostisbehere can do it all. He's shifty and can make a pass in the blink of an eye for a great scoring chance."

 

#noloveforprovocop

 

 

Nice to see a Flyers drafted and developed defenceman get some recognition. Ghost has become one of my favorite Flyers. The guy can lift you out of your seat every game.

 

That being said there's no way he's a better overall defenceman than Provorov. No way, no how. Glad we have both of them.