Wilds free agent signings

[Razblo]

Based on the progression I've seen in Zucker over the last 2-3 years with his ability to stay healthy and produce more points each season. I would be happy if we could get him locked up for about $5.5mil/yr (middle ground between the two camps) for 5 years.

 

I think the biggest thing Dumba has going for him is that he is still only 23 years old (turns 24 in July). He produced a career best 50 points last year while playing nearly 24 minutes a night. Maybe I'm trying to sell myself on keeping Dumba, but I feel like he cut down on the number of terrible mistakes that he has been accustomed to making. Based almost solely on size (listed at 6'0), it's hard for me to say that he will ever be a true #1 defenseman. If he continues to get better, I see could see him developing into a #2 defensemen, but more likely a high-end second pairing defenseman. Considering he is an RFA, the Wild will have a little bit of leverage, but like Zucker, I feel like he's also probably going to demand around $5mil/yr.

[rottenrefs]

1 hour ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Russo stated on his most recent podcast that Zucker is thinking he's worth $6 million per season, but the Wild are thinking something closer to $5 million.  Both Zucker & Dumba have arbitration rights.  

There's a lot of players getting around the $7 to $7.5 million mark for scoring 30 goals and netting 60+ points. Most of them are played right (unlike how the Wild have played Zucker) and see #1 PP time too.

 

You factor in the Wild have under-paid Zucker ever since he stepped foot on the ice and one has to reason he makes sh!t happen year after year in the scoring department regardless if he sees 11 minutes a game or 15... On the 2nd to 3rd lines. They put him on the top line for a third to half the season and he tally's 33 goals and 31 assists (two assists short of what Vladimir Tarasenko put up last season) who's on his teams top line and sees a lot of PP time.

 

Like I said on our old board, Zucker is going to garner closer to $7 million (like Tarasenko's $7.5 million) numbers than not. The Wild have a screw loose if they think Zucker isn't worth near to just over $6 million and Jason Zucker (and his manager) know it. Factor in what he brings to the team off the ice (and his wife) and you have a guy who the team will make it look like Zucker is just being greedy and MOST flash-in-the-pan fans will blindly and ignorantly side with the Wild... and they're once again - wrong.

 

Then you factor in his love for the game, his passion, his heart and you might as well say Bye-Bye to Zucker because this team doesn't want players like him getting more attention than they're coveted captain or the two Alternate Bozo's undermining what this team really needs.

[IllaZilla]

If I wanted to be a dickhead GM, I'd throw an offer sheet at Dumba. Just because you know they valued him enough to give up Haula and Tuch. So they'd REALLY look like idiots if they didn't match the offer sheet.

 

And I wouldn't be too worried about the draft picks I'd have to give up, because the Wild scouts would screw up the picks anyways...

 

They're paying Spurgeon $5+M, and Dumba has done just as much if not more than Spugeon the last two seasons. If you threw a $6M offer sheet at him, you'd only be giving up a 1st and a 3rd...and if you were a team that was already picking in the later stages of the first round...you'd potentially be getting Dumba for a couple of role players...

[Tomdog]

If the wild think they'll be able to keep Zucker or dumba for less than $6 mill each, their crazy. Just look at what players are getting.

[Valentine1618]

Somebody needs to tell the Wild they need to wake up and give Sucker the money. He is one player we need. If they think they can find someone that plays like Zucker cares like Zucker and wants to be in Minnesota like Zucker they are stupid. This team makes me mad with their stupidity. 

[rottenrefs]

2 hours ago, Tomdog said:

If the wild think they'll be able to keep Zucker or dumba for less than $6 mill each, their crazy. Just look at what players are getting.

Right. All the old vets get cushion money while the underlings get to be sacrificial lambs in more ways then just financial earnings.

[CreaseAndAssist]

Well if you're #16 or #24 I'd want to get my deal done first because they're probably going to be the one that ends up with over half of what's left while the other gets traded due to a lack of cap space.  

[Tomdog]

My guess is that the wild are waiting for offers from other teams to set their price.

That way they can try to justify low balling them when they go to arbitration.

For some reason the wild treat some players like crap and others like gold..

Example, Eric Haula vs Jonas Brodin.

[CreaseAndAssist]

1 hour ago, Tomdog said:

My guess is that the wild are waiting for offers from other teams to set their price.

That way they can try to justify low balling them when they go to arbitration.

For some reason the wild treat some players like crap and others like gold..

Example, Eric Haula vs Jonas Brodin.

 

Russo predicts the Wild are going to be calling out Zucker's lack of playoff production big time as a reason to keep the price more reasonable.  He feels they'll have less leverage against Dumba who is a 50-point defenseman and still just 23 years old.  But he said there has been barely any discussion with Dumba at this point in time...

[Starofthenorth]

1 hour ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Russo predicts the Wild are going to be calling out Zucker's lack of playoff production big time as a reason to keep the price more reasonable.  He feels they'll have less leverage against Dumba who is a 50-point defenseman and still just 23 years old.  But he said there has been barely any discussion with Dumba at this point in time...

If the wild felt that their biggest and most important pieces of the free agency were dumba and Zucker then why haven't they done more to open the lines of communication and discussions. I mean they just gave koivu a two year contract at 5.5 million per year in advance before his brilliant 45 point production last season which included #1 power play time. How can they possibly argue now that Mikko is due more money then dumba (50 points) or zucker (64 points) and neither with pp#1 time like Mikko? To compare Dumba's 50 points to Suter's 51 points just in terms of production and Dumba is 10 years younger. Dumba also has almost 65 less minutes of power play time per season with 180 less minutes of 5 on 5 play. No I'm not advocating for Dumba to make as much money as Suter (Suter and Parise don't event deserve nor are they worth that much money), but the wild are going to have some tough negotiating ahead of them if you look at their current contracts as comparables. 

[IllaZilla]

50 minutes ago, Starofthenorth said:

If the wild felt that their biggest and most important pieces of the free agency were dumba and Zucker then why haven't they done more to open the lines of communication and discussions. I mean they just gave koivu a two year contract at 5.5 million per year in advance before his brilliant 45 point production last season which included #1 power play time. How can they possibly argue now that Mikko is due more money then dumba (50 points) or zucker (64 points) and neither with pp#1 time like Mikko? To compare Dumba's 50 points to Suter's 51 points just in terms of production and Dumba is 10 years younger. Dumba also has almost 65 less minutes of power play time per season with 180 less minutes of 5 on 5 play. No I'm not advocating for Dumba to make as much money as Suter (Suter and Parise don't event deserve nor are they worth that much money), but the wild are going to have some tough negotiating ahead of them if you look at their current contracts as comparables. 

 

There probably hasn't been a lot of communication because both of these players are restricted free agents, so the Wild hold all the cards. Zucker and Dumba can't negotiate with other teams, they can only negotiate with the Wild.

[CreaseAndAssist]

2 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

There probably hasn't been a lot of communication because both of these players are restricted free agents, so the Wild hold all the cards. Zucker and Dumba can't negotiate with other teams, they can only negotiate with the Wild.

 

Bingo...

[Tomdog]

4 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Russo predicts the Wild are going to be calling out Zucker's lack of playoff production big time as a reason to keep the price more reasonable.  He feels they'll have less leverage against Dumba who is a 50-point defenseman and still just 23 years old.  But he said there has been barely any discussion with Dumba at this point in time...

Yes the wild will try that strategy, but anyone who watched the games could see that he either had poor linemates or a lack of support onthe forecheck to have much chance of success. 

[IllaZilla]

7 minutes ago, Tomdog said:

Yes the wild will try that strategy, but anyone who watched the games could see that he either had poor linemates or a lack of support onthe forecheck to have much chance of success. 

 

It doesn't matter what his team mates did. Here is what is allowed at the hearing:

1. The player's "overall performance" including statistics in all previous seasons
2. Injuries, illnesses, and the number of games played
3. The player's length of service with the team and in the NHL
4. The player's "overall contribution" to the team's success or failure
5. The player's "special qualities of leadership or public appeal"
6. The performance and salary of any player believed to be comparable to the player in the dispute

Zucker can't bring in video of the playoffs and say "Well, see, I had crappy line mates that never got me the puck, so how can I score if I didn't have the puck?"

The Wild will certainly play up #1 (he only scored 30 goals once) and #4 (only scored 4 goals in 31 Playoff games, and only one in the last 16 last Playoff games).

Hopefully they can come to an agreement before arbitration, because it usually is very nasty and can get personal...

 

[Alexandron]

Our former kind of "home grown" prospect Folin was signed by Philly. Not a bad choice by Flyers. I think our defense was the most defensive one when we had Spurgeon- Suter, Brodin-Folin, Scandella-Dumba. After that our defense became more questionable. Quincey was a complete weak choice for 18 games last year. Yes, we had a better production (more goals and assists) last season out of our defense, but we lost more goals too, which means also we helped less to our goaltenders last season comparing to the season before.

 

[Starofthenorth]

6 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

Hopefully they can come to an agreement before arbitration, because it usually is very nasty and can get personal...

 

This is what I am hoping as well! Opening up the lines of communication early could also have avoided arbitration even if they are rfa's. They negotiated and overpaid with koivu a year before he was due to be a ufa. 

[rottenrefs]

9 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

It doesn't matter what his team mates did. Here is what is allowed at the hearing:

1. The player's "overall performance" including statistics in all previous seasons
2. Injuries, illnesses, and the number of games played
3. The player's length of service with the team and in the NHL
4. The player's "overall contribution" to the team's success or failure
5. The player's "special qualities of leadership or public appeal"
6. The performance and salary of any player believed to be comparable to the player in the dispute

Zucker can't bring in video of the playoffs and say "Well, see, I had crappy line mates that never got me the puck, so how can I score if I didn't have the puck?"

The Wild will certainly play up #1 (he only scored 30 goals once) and #4 (only scored 4 goals in 31 Playoff games, and only one in the last 16 last Playoff games).

Hopefully they can come to an agreement before arbitration, because it usually is very nasty and can get personal...

 

As Zucker's agent I'd bring up:

For "X" consecutive season's the cumulative goals Jason has scored cost the team less than any other player on the roster... Because he's under-payed.

For the limited time Jason's been on the ice... 5 on 5 and barely on PP's... Jason is 2nd on the team behind Eric Staal in scoring percentage.

 

I could go on and on, but essentially all our younger players have been out-performing the veterans, excluding Eric Staal for the past 3-5 seasons. 

[CreaseAndAssist]

18 hours ago, Alexandron said:

Our former kind of "home grown" prospect Folin was signed by Philly. Not a bad choice by Flyers. I think our defense was the most defensive one when we had Spurgeon- Suter, Brodin-Folin, Scandella-Dumba. After that our defense became more questionable. Quincey was a complete weak choice for 18 games last year. Yes, we had a better production (more goals and assists) last season out of our defense, but we lost more goals too, which means also we helped less to our goaltenders last season comparing to the season before.

 

 

I asked this on Twitter, but is Greg Pateryn really that much better than Ondrej Sustr?  Although, Folin's NHL career has to be on life support because that's two teams that have kind of given up on him.  

[CreaseAndAssist]

19 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

It doesn't matter what his team mates did. Here is what is allowed at the hearing:

1. The player's "overall performance" including statistics in all previous seasons
2. Injuries, illnesses, and the number of games played
3. The player's length of service with the team and in the NHL
4. The player's "overall contribution" to the team's success or failure
5. The player's "special qualities of leadership or public appeal"
6. The performance and salary of any player believed to be comparable to the player in the dispute

Zucker can't bring in video of the playoffs and say "Well, see, I had crappy line mates that never got me the puck, so how can I score if I didn't have the puck?"

The Wild will certainly play up #1 (he only scored 30 goals once) and #4 (only scored 4 goals in 31 Playoff games, and only one in the last 16 last Playoff games).

Hopefully they can come to an agreement before arbitration, because it usually is very nasty and can get personal...

 

 

IllaZilla with the dagger once again.  4 goals in 31 playoff games and just one in the last 16.  Is it really your linemates Jason?  Really?  31 playoff games for the Wild is what...probably the last 6 seasons?   IMO, that's a dagger of a stat and demonstrates your client disappears when it matters the most.  But you could put up similar stats for most of this team which is why we all correctly recognize how fundamentally flawed it really is.  

 

Zucker has been a streaky but overall fairly solid regular season soldier.  Is he due for a raise, certainly.  But it shouldn't be more than Nino IMO (which is looking like a bad deal btw).  

[Alexandron]

And again those 33 goals scorers do not grow on a trees. Agree with LIG - Jason Zucker is a very solid regular season soldier with an opened heart and soul. And not only in hockey, but in his life out of the hockey too. Last regular season Jason  scored in few winning games(3) in a row when no one in our team was capable to score including Eric. Unfortunately ,  he has no luck yet in playoffs , and even for Eric Staal (42 goals last regular season) in our team too. Jason sincerely recognized that and planning to work harder towards improvements during a playoffs time. Tell you a truth , if he will not be signed with our team then it will be my huge personal loss as his fan for years.

[rottenrefs]

5 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

IllaZilla with the dagger once again.  4 goals in 31 playoff games and just one in the last 16.  Is it really your linemates Jason?  Really?  31 playoff games for the Wild is what...probably the last 6 seasons?   IMO, that's a dagger of a stat and demonstrates your client disappears when it matters the most.  But you could put up similar stats for most of this team which is why we all correctly recognize how fundamentally flawed it really is.  

 

Zucker has been a streaky but overall fairly solid regular season soldier.  Is he due for a raise, certainly.  But it shouldn't be more than Nino IMO (which is looking like a bad deal btw).  

Yet without half those 33 goals the team wouldn't have made the playoffs.

[CreaseAndAssist]

18 hours ago, rottenrefs said:

Yet without half those 33 goals the team wouldn't have made the playoffs.

 

Oh, so we should thank him that we're drafting 24th instead of 16th or 15th?  The owner gets some more money with at least 2 playoff games hosted the last 6 seasons, but beyond that...it doesn't really do much for the organization.  

[rottenrefs]

55 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Oh, so we should thank him that we're drafting 24th instead of 16th or 15th?  The owner gets some more money with at least 2 playoff games hosted the last 6 seasons, but beyond that...it doesn't really do much for the organization.  

You wanted Haula gone and I said on any other team he'd be used right and score more. I was right.

Zucker isn't any different.

 

[IllaZilla]

23 hours ago, rottenrefs said:

Yet without half those 33 goals the team wouldn't have made the playoffs.

 

Not necessarily. 

 

Zucker scored in 21 of the Wild's 45 wins. In five of those games the outcome may have been different had he not scored. All other games would not have mattered since the Wild won by multiple goals.

 

11/9/2017 vs MTL 3-0 (Zucker scored 3)

11/11/2017 vs PHL 1-0 (Zucker scored 1)

11/24/2017 vs COL 3-2 (Zucker scored 1)

12/8/2017 vs ANA 3-2 (Zucker scored 1)

1/30/2018 vs CBJ 3-2 (Zucker scored 1)

 

If Zucker had not scored in those games and the Wild lost all of those games in regulation, their record would have been 40-31-11 for 91 points and out of the Playoffs.

If Zucker had not scored and the Wild lost all of those games in OT, their record would have been 40-26-16 for 96 points and dropping to the Wildcard, still making the Playoffs.

[rottenrefs]

1 hour ago, IllaZilla said:

 

Not necessarily. 

 

Zucker scored in 21 of the Wild's 45 wins. In five of those games the outcome may have been different had he not scored. All other games would not have mattered since the Wild won by multiple goals.

 

11/9/2017 vs MTL 3-0 (Zucker scored 3)

11/11/2017 vs PHL 1-0 (Zucker scored 1)

11/24/2017 vs COL 3-2 (Zucker scored 1)

12/8/2017 vs ANA 3-2 (Zucker scored 1)

1/30/2018 vs CBJ 3-2 (Zucker scored 1)

 

If Zucker had not scored in those games and the Wild lost all of those games in regulation, their record would have been 40-31-11 for 91 points and out of the Playoffs.

If Zucker had not scored and the Wild lost all of those games in OT, their record would have been 40-26-16 for 96 points and dropping to the Wildcard, still making the Playoffs.

Well there you have it. Time to dump the kid.

 

Maybe get more players like Backstrom, Havlat, Heatley, Vanek & Pominville? More Charlie Coyle's? They're all worth $5 to $7+ million. Oh yeah, don't forget the captain and his A-hole alternates... 

 

What's the point of making one of the only gutless players on the roster who busts his ass every night while the vets drag their asses all over the ice waiting for all the young kids to fetch the puck for them? They're only worth a discounted contract? Guess I'm missing something.