CreaseAndAssist Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 If the Star Tribune is saying Nino played all 82 games last season they need to issue a correction, because he only played in 63 regular season games last season. Check it out for yourself. At times Zucker would just take off and try to score...then after scoring a few times then suddenly he'd stop doing that. He'd wait as you said for the vets and then try to make a pass showing little or no interest in shooting the puck at all. I wondered if the older guys tore into him for being selfish or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Yeah, Nino did not play in 82 games last season. He got that hamstring injury early in the season about the same time Charlie Coyle got his leg broken by that Spurgeon slap shot. Coyle went on LTIR and Niederreitter went on IR on 10/13/2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonkkis Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 17 hours ago, Confrontational said: Interesting - the Trib said Nino played in all 82 games last season - for some reason I thought he was injured for a few games towards the final stretch... Regarding Zucker - that's a tough one... On one hand I'd like to see him sign - but on the other I can't help but wonder if he's going to be productive when shifting him to lines that aren't producing - which they seem to like to do with him... I love watching him, no doubt, but can't help but wonder what he'd be like on a younger team... Wonder how many times he's broke through the neutral zone at full speed waiting for a pass from one of the elderly vets... Would love to have a mic on his helmet to hear his self-comments about a few of our veteran laggards... Probably one of the reasons Zucker-Granlund worked so well, Granny is able to feed Zucker. Granny's long pass to Zucker Granny gets puck to Zucker Couple of examples. Staal is another one who's able to use Zucker and his speed. The rest of the vets? Not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetshot Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 1:12 PM, IllaZilla said: Not necessarily. Zucker scored in 21 of the Wild's 45 wins. In five of those games the outcome may have been different had he not scored. All other games would not have mattered since the Wild won by multiple goals. 11/9/2017 vs MTL 3-0 (Zucker scored 3) 11/11/2017 vs PHL 1-0 (Zucker scored 1) 11/24/2017 vs COL 3-2 (Zucker scored 1) 12/8/2017 vs ANA 3-2 (Zucker scored 1) 1/30/2018 vs CBJ 3-2 (Zucker scored 1) If Zucker had not scored in those games and the Wild lost all of those games in regulation, their record would have been 40-31-11 for 91 points and out of the Playoffs. If Zucker had not scored and the Wild lost all of those games in OT, their record would have been 40-26-16 for 96 points and dropping to the Wildcard, still making the Playoffs. It's not that simple. How many of his assists contributed to wins? How many of the victories by the Wild that were by multiple goals were because of empty net goals? How many of his goals were momentum changers? How many games did he not score but had a significant impact on the outcome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, sweetshot said: It's not that simple. How many of his assists contributed to wins? How many of the victories by the Wild that were by multiple goals were because of empty net goals? How many of his goals were momentum changers? How many games did he not score but had a significant impact on the outcome? (Yawn) How many of Zucker's goals in the playoffs this last season were momentum changers? Oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Check Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 53 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said: (Yawn) How many of Zucker's goals in the playoffs this last season were momentum changers? Oh wait... Yeah.....Zucker's 4 goals in 31 playoff games is a hard fact to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine1618 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Sadly I feel like the entire team doesn’t produce in the playoffs. With that being said I still want Zucker signed because he actually wants to be here. He actually tries and wants to help this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Check Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Valentine1618 said: Sadly I feel like the entire team doesn’t produce in the playoffs. With that being said I still want Zucker signed because he actually wants to be here. He actually tries and wants to help this team. I like Zucker too. The Wild would miss his speed. But with Zucker seeking north of 6M per, Fenton has to take his anemic playoff stats into account before pulling the trigger on a long term deal even at a negotiated price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 49 minutes ago, 4Check said: I like Zucker too. The Wild would miss his speed. But with Zucker seeking north of 6M per, Fenton has to take his anemic playoff stats into account before pulling the trigger on a long term deal even at a negotiated price. I agree with this 100%. We can't keep overpaying people out of sentimentality...otherwise we haven't learned our lesson from #9, #11 & #20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I jump in your car, guys. I like Zucker too, the effort he puts on the ice, his speed, his motivation and we know he's capable of producing a lot. But let's keep rational and put all the factors in the balance. The good ones and the bad ones. I really would like to have him back in the team, but not at all costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetshot Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 13 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: (Yawn) How many of Zucker's goals in the playoffs this last season were momentum changers? Oh wait... (???) I was'nt even quoting you so why be a smarta** about it. I'm sure the person I quoted can respond if he/she wants to. I am quite aware of the Wild's futility in the playoffs. But the playoffs were not mentioned in the post I quoted. If you read it, you'll see it was only about Zuckers impact on the Wilds record during the regular season . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetshot Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 8 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: I agree with this 100%. We can't keep overpaying people out of sentimentality...otherwise we haven't learned our lesson from #9, #11 & #20. So you don't think they should re-sign Zucker because of his lack of production in the playoffs? Or is there an amount that would be acceptable to you if they re-signed him? Shoot, If they didn't sign players based on their lack of playoff numbers they'd have a roster of about 5 guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomdog Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, sweetshot said: So you don't think they should re-sign Zucker because of his lack of production in the playoffs? Or is there an amount that would be acceptable to you if they re-signed him? Shoot, If they didn't sign players based on their lack of playoff numbers they'd have a roster of about 5 guys. That is so funny because it is so true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 20 hours ago, sweetshot said: It's not that simple. How many of his assists contributed to wins? How many of the victories by the Wild that were by multiple goals were because of empty net goals? How many of his goals were momentum changers? How many games did he not score but had a significant impact on the outcome? Precisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 11 hours ago, sweetshot said: So you don't think they should re-sign Zucker because of his lack of production in the playoffs? Or is there an amount that would be acceptable to you if they re-signed him? Shoot, If they didn't sign players based on their lack of playoff numbers they'd have a roster of about 5 guys. But do you pay him top dollar even though he clearly hasn't performed well in the playoffs? No, unless your desperate and stupid. I don't care if they have 5 guys they keep. It's why we've all been saying this team is fundamentally FLAWED. Honestly, go follow your cheap-a%% dirty Avalanche team. The Wild should be beginning a rebuild. Instead we're going to just tweak it; basically return next season with the same roster and expect a different result. That's the layman's definition of insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 5 hours ago, rottenrefs said: Precisely. Yawn, tell us how you quantify that? Whether its just a normal mundane assist or a momentum changing assist. Please let us know the metric so we can follow it somehow. Zucker wasn't scoring at all; assists or goals in the playoffs...i.e. when it REALLY matters. Same could be said of most of the rest of the team, and as inconvenient of a truth that may be it is what THIS Wild team is. Zucker gives the team speed, on many nights I'd agree he is our most dangerous player. However, the team would be stupid to overlook the lack of playoff production and simply pay him what he's asking...just because fans like him. This fanbase is way way too sentimental with the players. The Wild as an organization are way too sentimental with the players they draft or have had a while...because they overvalue them and the result is we always end up disappointed and by the time we're ready to part ways...the value is gone. It happened with Pierre-Marc Bouchard, it happened with James Sheppard, it's happening again with Charlie Coyle and perhaps Jonas Brodin too. If these players REALLY had value it would've been EASY to trade them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetshot Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 11 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said: But do you pay him top dollar even though he clearly hasn't performed well in the playoffs? No, unless your desperate and stupid. I don't care if they have 5 guys they keep. It's why we've all been saying this team is fundamentally FLAWED. Honestly, go follow your cheap-a%% dirty Avalanche team. The Wild should be beginning a rebuild. Instead we're going to just tweak it; basically return next season with the same roster and expect a different result. That's the layman's definition of insanity. Top dollar--No you don't. I like Zucker and that has clouded my judgement a bit, but to be brutally honest, they probably shouldn't sign him at all, we should've traded him by now, considering his lack of scoring in the playoffs is a continuing issue. Same for a couple more guys on this team. I'm not really a fan of team Avalanche all that much, I just really like the way Nathan Mackinnon plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 7 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: Yawn, tell us how you quantify that? Whether its just a normal mundane assist or a momentum changing assist. Please let us know the metric so we can follow it somehow. Zucker wasn't scoring at all; assists or goals in the playoffs...i.e. when it REALLY matters. Same could be said of most of the rest of the team, and as inconvenient of a truth that may be it is what THIS Wild team is. Zucker gives the team speed, on many nights I'd agree he is our most dangerous player. However, the team would be stupid to overlook the lack of playoff production and simply pay him what he's asking...just because fans like him. This fanbase is way way too sentimental with the players. The Wild as an organization are way too sentimental with the players they draft or have had a while...because they overvalue them and the result is we always end up disappointed and by the time we're ready to part ways...the value is gone. It happened with Pierre-Marc Bouchard, it happened with James Sheppard, it's happening again with Charlie Coyle and perhaps Jonas Brodin too. If these players REALLY had value it would've been EASY to trade them. First of all, I've never stated how much I'd like to see Zucker get paid. Secondly, I have stated how much he could be worth compared to other players. Thirdly, the most deceptive 'missing link' in all the debates dealing with just about any Wild player, is the team does not utilize them to their potential. They use them based on how they can help another player reach or play to their potential. Primarily by pairing them with tired or worn out veterans who are literally way over rated. Haula and Tuch are perfect examples of this. Not once were they given the freedom to use their talent where it best suited the team. Instead the Wild attempted to re-groom them to do things they weren't good at. Fortunately Las Vegas capitalized on both of them before they were completely screwed up in the head like most other Wild players who never gain any traction outside of a Wild uniform. They were wrecked here and their careers pretty much ended here. Then there's this aspect: Taking on the Wild in the playoffs all teams have to do is shut down one or two key players and the rest is a breeze. Other teams have NEVER focused on shutting down Koivu. Nor Parise, nor Suter. Nor Heatley or Vanek... etc. They shut down other players who are threats. Last your those players were Staal and Zucker, they treated Granlund like a gnat and away they go onward to the next round. No one else on the team has the ability to stand on their own two feet and demand the ice they're playing on. The team doesn't put them in a position to do that and those very same players have all been conditioned to stay in their shell and not step on the toes of their lofty veterans. So tell me this, if all the players not named Koivu, Parise or Suter aren't put into position to use their talents that could best suit the team... How can the team honestly evaluate their pay? Prior to going to the Golden Knights what would you have paid Tuch or Haula? Like many you were down on Haula big time and didn't think he was worth a dime. How about now? If their play keeps appreciating and they keep producing, how much would they be worth next year? I'm betting the number you would give them leaving the Wild is far lower than what their value was worth last year, this year and likely next year. I'm guessing the numbers would be millions apart, not just a few hundred thousand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandron Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Here is a nice video-interview with a J.T.Brown: https://www.nhl.com/wild/video/nhl-tonight-jt-brown/t-277437412/c-60789903 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.