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pilldoc

O'Reilly traded to the Blues

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REPORT: Sabres trade Ryan O'Reilly to the Blues

 

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Edited by pilldoc

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3 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

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REPORT: Sabres trade Ryan O'Reilly to the Blues

 

No details yet ...

I have heard the Sabres are getting 3 players including Bergland who i love, Sebovka, and a first and second round draft pick!!!!  OK with me. My two favorite teams have found a friendship.  We have Hutton now and he is happy to be in Buffalo

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28 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

 

I don't know.  I think that's actually a great deal for Buffalo.   I already wrote a little bit about it in the "Penguins donate" thread, but I think Buffalo has had a pretty good offseason.

 

I like the moves the Blues have made but I don't clearly understand them.

 

The way I understand it, they have obtained O'Reilly, Bozak, and Perron.   They're obviously going all in, but they basically traded backup goalies with Buffalo and came out on the short end (Hutton went FA to Buffalo and Chad Johnson went FA to St. Louis).  And they still haven't addressed the fact that they're starting goalie is a flake and haven't strengthened their defense.

 

They're good up front, I just hope for their sake they have enough on the backend.  I don't think they do.

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7 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I don't know.  I think that's actually a great deal for Buffalo. 

 

Thompson could be good, but he's a mid-tier prospect at this point. Berglund and Sobotka are 30 point players crossing to the wrong side of 30. The first is likely to be 16+, and the 2nd is three drafts from now. I'm pretty unimpressed with the return. A lot hinges on Thompson's development.

 

Quote

 

I already wrote a little bit about it in the "Penguins donate" thread, but I think Buffalo has had a pretty good offseason.

 

They did ok, the Pens' trade was certainly good for Buffalo, but I don't know that Hutton is the guy to carry the load for a half season like you expect. And if the Blues have a weak defense, I don't want to know what Buffalo has.

 

 

Edited by AJgoal

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2 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

I don't know that Hutton is the guy to carry the load for a half season like you expect. And if the Blues have a weak defense, I don't want to know what Buffalo has.

 

I'm not really concerned with the workload.   40-45 would be a step up from his 30-ish each of the last two years, but I think he should be fine there.   But I share your concern about defense. He certainly won't have the defensive support he had in either St. Louis or Nashville.  At least not this year.  Dahlin will improve it, but he still needs to bring the rest along.  

 

It seems Bergland and Sobotka help shore up the 3rd line.  I wonder that they couldn't have gotten better had they paid the bonus.  But it rounds out a decent forward group--if still not quite ready for prime time.  They'll still need to improve the defense but they are going to have a pretty good top pairing eventually if not immediately.

 

The goaltending and Hutton is going to depend upon Ullmark.  If he's not what they're hoping, they're going to struggle.   Because I don't want Hutton going from a career high of 40 games (5 years ago!) to playing 50 or 60 games.  That's a disaster.

 

 

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@AJgoal

 

Do you figure they (Buffalo) made the decision that they didn't want to trade O'Reilly in-conference (ie., Montreal)?   

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3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I'm not really concerned with the workload.   40-45 would be a step up from his 30-ish each of the last two years, but I think he should be fine there.   But I share your concern about defense. He certainly won't have the defensive support he had in either St. Louis or Nashville.  At least not this year.  Dahlin will improve it, but he still needs to bring the rest along.  

 

I'm just not sold on a career backup, on the downside of his career, being able to add 30-50% to his workload on a defensively lacking team and not have it be a complete disaster.

 

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

It seems Bergland and Sobotka help shore up the 3rd line.  I wonder that they couldn't have gotten better had they paid the bonus.  But it rounds out a decent forward group--if still not quite ready for prime time. 

 

See, this is where else I disagree. I don't think they have much depth after Eichel. Mittelstadt is a nice prospect, Reinhart is good, Sheary is decent for depth... but otherwise I'm wholly unimpressed by their forward corps. And then they've got a lot of cap tied up in mediocrity - especially on D - that they're going to have to rely on for multiple years.

 

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

They'll still need to improve the defense but they are going to have a pretty good top pairing eventually if not immediately.

 

This is true. If Dahlin is all he's projected to be, him and Risto should make a good top pair. If they could pick up a 3/4 type RD, they could potentially even split them up down the road, let each one do the heavy lifting on their own pair. But that's a big if.

 

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

The goaltending and Hutton is going to depend upon Ullmark.  If he's not what they're hoping, they're going to struggle.   Because I don't want Hutton going from a career high of 40 games (5 years ago!) to playing 50 or 60 games.  That's a disaster.

 

 

 

Agreed.

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42 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

I'm just not sold on a career backup, on the downside of his career, being able to add 30-50% to his workload on a defensively lacking team and not have it be a complete disaster.

 

 

See, this is where else I disagree. I don't think they have much depth after Eichel. Mittelstadt is a nice prospect, Reinhart is good, Sheary is decent for depth... but otherwise I'm wholly unimpressed by their forward corps. And then they've got a lot of cap tied up in mediocrity - especially on D - that they're going to have to rely on for multiple years.

 

 

This is true. If Dahlin is all he's projected to be, him and Risto should make a good top pair. If they could pick up a 3/4 type RD, they could potentially even split them up down the road, let each one do the heavy lifting on their own pair. But that's a big if.

 

 

Agreed.

 

I don't think we actually disagree much.   Any time you're moving out a player like O'Reilly and you're not getting equal back (they're not) you really cannot argue you came away an immediately better team.   But it really wasn't working with O'Reilly--they haven't done a great job of surrounding their centers.    But at this point, O'Reilly's cap and the bonus payout, etc., is a waste.   

 

I wonder if they could have gotten more for O'Reilly if they were paying the bonus.    And I also wonder if they deliberately went out of conference and that hurt them.  I don't think I personally would have worried about going in-conference with O'Reilly.  I really wonder what kind of package could have been had from NYI or Montreal.    Could Dobson have been a possibility from NYI?  He would probably have been under Snow (assuming Snow hadn't drafted a milk man instead of Dobson to begin with).  But I don't think with Lou.    O'Reilly would have been an okay replacement for JT, though.

 

I don't know.   They got a couple picks and some usable--if not high end--players.   It's okay, but they still have a lot of work to do.

 

Does O'Reilly become the 1C in St. Louis?  If so, I'm betting they lose quite a bit of production from Schenn.   And Bozak is Bozak.  I'm not thrilled with the Perron signing either.   The defense is still the same in St. Louis and I question their goaltending.  They could end up with an 11-15 pick next year...though you wouldn't think that should happen.  I think they're a better team than what just missed the playoffs.  But the Avalanche also improved, so they'd probably have to pass Minnesota, who hasn't helped themselves.  And they have to hold off the Stars.  Did they do enough?

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Speaking as a guy who has (for decades) watched his team give up the best player in the deal for package similar to what the Sabres brought in, I don't really like this one very much for Buffalo.

 

-The Blues win the trade without breaking a sweat, since the Sabres NEED Thompson to pan out AND hit on the pick to make it close.

-The Blues acquired a $7.5M AAV, but actually gain 750K in cap space in the deal. Unreal.

-Sobotka was 5th in 5v5 TOI/gm, Berglund was 7th. They were both actively shopped all season long. Both about to enter the decline phase of their careers.

-The Sabres lose their prime-aged tough minute munching centre and have nothing resembling a replacement. O'Reilly was cover for their kids, now they need more help in that regard.

 

For Buffalo to make good here, they need to magically sprout an outstanding two-way centre to play O'Reilly's minutes, and have all of their return develop optimally.

 

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I'm going to go out on a limb and predict a Stanley Cup final of...

 

 

Blues vs Sabres

 

What do ya think?

 

@ruxpin

 

 

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6 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict a Stanley Cup final of...

 

 

Blues vs Sabres

 

What do ya think?

 

@ruxpin

 

 

Dont laugh.  Blues could be there this year and the Sabres WILL BE SOON.

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My first thought when I saw Perron signed with the Blues was 4 years is a bad move even though I love him, he is a solid middle six two way forward and a favorite of mine, the Blues have too many kids and I thought he would be holding them down. Then they signed Bozak and I thought, okay, they are going for it now. Then, this. Wow.

  Klim Kostin is a real deal magician of a prospect, absolutely magic with the puck on his stick, incredible vision and will crack the roster. The Blues if they can get any goaltending at all are a serious contender for the Cup in a wide open West. Schenn can move back to wing, O'reilly, Kostin and Perron are all damn hard to play against at both ends of the ice, Bozak as a 2C or 3C is in his wheelhouse a younger cheaper replacement for Stastny. All this and managed to keep the defense in tact. Still don't trust Allen but the Wings won with Osgood, the Hawks won with Crawford and sometimes a team finishes ahead of its goalies, lol. The Blues top nine are simply stacked.

 

  That is not ripping the Sabre haul, not at all. Berglund is a solid 3C, unspectacular but solid, Sobotka is a defense first forward who can score a bit, Thompson is a very nice prospect who was pushed out because the Blues are going for it now and they have to make room for Barbachev, Kostin and Jaskin.  Plus the draft picks, picking up Sheary for nothing and of course Dahlin at the draft this has been a great offseason for the Sabres as well.

 

  Truly a trade that helps both teams. Both organizations should be thrilled.

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@ruxpin

 

I see the Blues top nine of

 

Taresenko O'Reilly Schwartz

Schenn  Kostin  Steen

Fabbri Bozak   Perron

 

Fabbri is a wildcard in the mix, he was coming into his own and poised for a breakout season when he was injured and missed the entire season last year, if he bounces back with a 40-45 point season, something I think is VERY possible at the least, this top nine is stacked. If not Jaskin will step in he doenst have quite the scoring touch of Fabbri but is thick and plays a hard two way game which is perfect on a line with Perron who plays the same way. I love Kostin as a prospect, I know some see him as more of a wing but the kid is magic with the puck and if you have to move Schenn back inside as a 2C and allow Kostin to develop easier on the wing you aren't hurt. And like I said, they have a couple of kids named Barbachev and Jordan Kyrou who will be pushing for ice time too. I don't usually get excited about the Blues but man do they look different over the last 24 hours.

 

@JR Ewing

I think a bit more of the Sabres moves than you do, Mittelstadt looks like a real comer who at the least needs to be a 3C but they hope he is a 2C, I agree that Sobotka and Berglund are just a couple of nice complimentary pieces and Sheary is about the same but they have been throwing Mouslon, Gionta and Pomminville out there, the new trio is a huge improvement over that paycheck stealing grouping. Thompson is a solid prospect, a lot better than O'Regan in the Kane deal, lol and the picks have to hit but when you are 31st there is nowhere to go but up. 

 

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2 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Dont laugh.  Blues could be there this year and the Sabres WILL BE SOON.

 

I'm shocked...SHOCKED...that you're picking the Blues for the 15th year in a row to win the cup. :scared:

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1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I'm shocked...SHOCKED...that you're picking the Blues for the 15th year in a row to win the cup. 

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LOL!

 

I still think they have a goaltending problem, but they're otherwise built to win.  All that's left is for Armstrong to again get in the way and screw it up.

 

I always say the Blues will ultimately lose and lose early until proven otherwise, but the Caps finally won (and the Eagles won a SB), so the world really no longer makes any sense to me.

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39 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

LOL!

 

I still think they have a goaltending problem, but they're otherwise built to win.  All that's left is for Armstrong to again get in the way and screw it up.

 

I always say the Blues will ultimately lose and lose early until proven otherwise, but the Caps finally won (and the Eagles won a SB), so the world really no longer makes any sense to me.

St Louis is on the short list for sure.  And soon, Buffalo will be.  I think Jake Allen is a fine goalie

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1 minute ago, Hockey Junkie said:

St Louis is on the short list for sure.  And soon, Buffalo will be.  I think Jake Allen is a fine goalie

 

This "short list" of yours seems to be going on for a long long time.

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28 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

This "short list" of yours seems to be going on for a long long time.

Lets not forget who won the Bracket challenge and picked Washington to win the Cup

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5 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Lets not forget who won the Bracket challenge and picked Washington to win the Cup

In fairness, when you pick black 17 consistently every day for 20 years, you're bound to win eventually. 

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41 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

I think Jake Allen is a fine goalie

So does Armstrong, apparently. 

 

All evidence to the contrary. Detroit won with Osgood and Chicago won with Niemi, so anything is possible. 

 

But if they win, it'll be in spite of him, not because of him. 

 

You put a top end goalie on that team, you might as well reserve a spot on the parade route now. 

 

I'm not sure I completely blame Allen. I don't think Armstrong did him any favors early on. By now it's on Allen a bit for not being over that, but just saying I think Armstrong deserves some culpability. 

Edited by ruxpin

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5 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Lets not forget who won the Bracket challenge and picked Washington to win the Cup

 

I thought you picked St Louis to win....actually you did. Every year.

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10 hours ago, ruxpin said:

In fairness, when you pick black 17 consistently every day for 20 years, you're bound to win eventually. 

 

Hey, 17 black is my pick!

 

And it's worked out well in Vegas and Altantic City.

 

Not to mention Philadelphia...

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      Speaking as a guy who has (for decades) watched his team give up the best player in the deal for package similar to what the Sabres brought in, I don't really like this one very much for Buffalo.   -The Blues win the trade without breaking a sweat, since the Sabres NEED Thompson to pan out AND hit on the pick to make it close. -The Blues acquired a $7.5M AAV, but actually gain 750K in cap space in the deal. Unreal. -Sobotka was 5th in 5v5 TOI/gm, Berglund was 7th. They were b
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      LOL!   I still think they have a goaltending problem, but they're otherwise built to win.  All that's left is for Armstrong to again get in the way and screw it up.   I always say the Blues will ultimately lose and lose early until proven otherwise, but the Caps finally won (and the Eagles won a SB), so the world really no longer makes any sense to me.
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      What really does make that all the more impressive is that he took almost 200 more faceoffs than the second most player (Crosby) and 1100 more than the guy (Vermette) who tied him in percentage (or slightly beat him).    So he took a TON of faceoffs and won 60% of them.   That's nuts.   Giroux was right behind him at 58.6% but also took over 1000 less faceoffs.  The weird thing is that beside Eichel (836 and a horrible 41.5% --that's not a concern yet, he's still really young and somet
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      Maybe I'm being a grump, so I'm not trying to poo-poo everything they did, because I pretty much agree with what you're saying here.  I *do* think they came out of this week improved. My issue is that a trade like this simultaneously lowers the ceiling at the same time as it raises the floor. It's those picks for me. With that 1-st round pick, they only have about a 25% chance of getting a top-6 forward, and the 2nd rounder's chances drop to about 10%.   I think they were in a tough sp

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