SPECULATION......Karlsson traded to Tampa?? ....More to come

[ruxpin]

10 minutes ago, yave1964 said:

Dorion took over Ottawa a few years ago and smiled and said, 'hold my beer." Of course how much is the GM and how much is the owner is up for debate but wow what an inept organization.

 

Honestly, it's hard to say how good or bad Dorion is.  The owner is a Dog#### Poptart.

[pilldoc]

32 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I'm speculating that we have a while to speculate on the speculation because I speculate this isn't as imminent as we think.  But I'm just speculating.

 

I've speculated before, but I'm not sure if your definition of speculating is the same definition of my definition of speculation, but of course I'm speculating that it is. 

[ruxpin]

14 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

I've speculated before, but I'm not sure if your definition of speculating is the same definition of my definition of speculation, but of course I'm speculating that it is. 

 

 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

Well, I for one have tempered my enthusiasm about this deal (or non deal, as the case may be)...

At first, I wasn't sure if I wanted the Lightning to give up a bunch of prospects, picks AND a good young roster player or two for Karlsson…...but then again, he IS Erik Karlsson, and unlike in Ottawa, where he basically had to carry the bulk of, well, EVERYTHING, in Tampa Bay he would be one of many very capable players.

 

Also, even giving up a sizeable haul in players/picks, the Lightning STILL have a pretty stocked system AND  a GM who knows how to filter talent in from elsewhere if he doesn't have it already himself in the minors.

 

To top it off, like has been said many times elsewhere....Ottawa should still get a nice return...however, they don't have as much leverage as they would have had this same scenario taken place a season ago.

Plus, Yzerman being who and what he is, and Dorion being who and what HE is, my money is on Stevie Y STILL coming out with a sweet deal and then have a team ready to compete for a Cup......or two....

 

But, first things first....

The deal has to actually happen.

If it doesn't, I will still be ok with how the Lightning enter the 2018-19 season.....although I understand they will need to tweak and work real hard on trying to correct the deficiencies they showed at times last season.

 

I think even without Karlsson, the Bolts are still a viable Cup contender....it's just that WITH him, they be downright scary.

 

So I'm gonna stay low key about this for now....just assume the current guys under contract are the ones the Bolts will go into battle with when the season starts.

If that changes, then I will see how high my Ecstat-O-Meter goes.

 

Man, I remember the days when the Lightning were the ones the vultures would always circle around whenever they had a good player everyone else wanted and they knew they couldn't hang on to.

I am glad to NOW be a fan of a team that IS a vulture...…………….  And Stevie Y is currently attempting to do his impersonation of King Vulture!  

[pilldoc]

https://www.prosportsdaily.com/Headlines/ExternalArticle?articleId=520704

 

Erik Karlsson Trade Talks Have Stalled

July 6, 2018 at 7:00 pm CDT | by Zach Leach 22 Comments

Over the past few days, it seemed like a trade for all-world defenseman Erik Karlsson was imminent. Originally, the Dallas Stars were confirmed to be the leader in the race and deep in talks with the Ottawa Senators on a deal for Karlsson. Not long after, it was the Tampa Bay Lightning who had reportedly pulled ahead and had a deal in place with Ottawa that simply required a third team to take on salary. Some even stated that a deal was done pending a trade call, a rumor that obviously lacked reliability. Karlsson remains a Senator and it now seems like a trade is not coming as quickly as expected.

 

The Athletic’s Joe Smith, who has had his finger on the pulse of the Lightning’s trade talks, is no longer optimistic about a deal getting done. Smith writes that a deal for Karlsson should not be expected any time soon and that nothing is “imminent or close”. Smith admits that a trade could still work out between Ottawa and Tampa, but it’s no longer the foregone conclusion that some had perceived. Meanwhile the Stars are rumored to have fallen out of favor when they refused to include star blue line prospect Miro Heiskanen in a deal for Karlsson. Sportsnet’s John Shannon believes that the Stars still have a chance to land Karlsson, but it seems that Dallas’ chances depend on whether or not they can be flexible with their offer.

 

The Senators now have a feel for the market and should be able to work out a fair value for Karlsson soon. However, what isn’t so easy is accommodating their insistence on also sending away Bobby Ryan and his $7.25MM cap hit over four years remaining on his contract. Sportsnet’s Chris Johnston reports today that this is the exact reason that finding a trade partner and working out the details of a deal could prove difficult. A three-team deal, like the one contemplated by Ottawa and Tampa Bay, is the most likely outcome for a Karlsson trade, but such deals don’t develop overnight. A trade could still be a ways away – The Athletic’s Chris Stevenson says that the Lightning, Stars, and Vegas Golden Knights all remain in the running – but Stevenson also says that nothing is close as the Senators have “retrenched” and the suitors are playing hardball. It seems that whichever team is able to up the ante on their offer and also be creative in managing several major contracts will be the team to land Karlsson and change the face of their franchise.

[pilldoc]

The latest  ... non-update as per our from Ek so take with  a grain of salt ...

 

Deals that are "close to being done" are like lit flames. The longer they burn the greater the chances of the whole thing falling completely apart...for the simple reason that when a nearly done deal reaches Day 3 or 4 you know the hold up is more than logistics. Its usually about cold feet...

This trade is a big deal for Dorion...and the cold feet I am told...are his..

And the Rangers aren't happy at all either..

As Tampa insider Erik Erlendsson said on XM yesterday the Lightning are trying to figure out how to make this cap for and Kucherov is a player who has to be considered...I am told the NY Rangers fixated on the possibility of landing Kucherov and so far Tampa hash't slammed any doors.

But either way, Callahan will not be enough and the Rangers need a lot more...which has led the NJ Devils into this dance as a team with plenty of cap space who could help this all be worked out...

Meanwhile my sources are telling me Dallas is "Just as close to working out a trade as is Tampa..." However the only team that has the extension part figured out....is Tampa...

Vegas is still toying with Ottawa as well...They are the only team willing to take on Bobby Ryan....
 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

Thanks for that last update, @pilldoc

 

Guess no one should be surprised.

I mean, this "slow boat" development PROBABLY should have been the norm all along, with Karlsson assumed to remain an Ottawa Senator until some verifiable proof comes up that he won't.

 

And yes, I believe a deal of this magnitude, whether with the Lightning, Stars, Knights...whomever, WOULD take a while to iron out details.

Perhaps Dorion isn't the complete knucklehead everyone is making him out to be...…..albeit, the longer he waits (I think he has waited a season too long as it is), I believe, the smaller his return for Karlsson from whichever team he ultimately ends up dealing with.

 

Bottom line is, this 'frenzy' on where Karlsson was going to end up was completely media fueled.

EEEEEVERYONE needed to be first man or first woman with the scoop, then you had the one guy who came out and said TB would be the team...only to have to retract his statement and say that "he was mistaken"....and then throw his alleged "source" under the bus.

 

Hey, guy...how about,

"Well, I wanted to be the first to get this story, boost my reporter profile, so I made this up because the Lightning were the most likely team to get him, but I gambled and lost. I am a notch below Eklund-type idiot"   

 

And yea, I am just a tad salty the media worked me up a bit, as per @FD19372 , I had to be 'peeled from the ceiling', but now am wearing my Cynic of the Media face till I see or hear some solid evidence.

 

Oh, and as a side bar:

I peeked in on hfboards to see what was being said about the Karlsson situation, and OMG..... with all due respect to our very lovable Leaf fans here, the Toronto fans over there are being complete A-holes!

Hijacking Karlsson threads making them all about the Maple Leafs….then acting like they are contributing to the conversation.

 

Makes me appreciate HF.net THAT MUCH MORE, when I see garbage like that go on over there.

 

Ok...back to my corner I go....

[jammer2]

 The bottom line is Karlsson has refused to sign an extension with the Sens....so in all reality, they HAVE to trade him. The player is so special they can still demand the moon, but the longer this drags on, the worse bargaining position the Sens are in....So....I expect something sooner than later. 

[J0e Th0rnton]

Just now, jammer2 said:

 The bottom line is Karlsson has refused to sign an extension with the Sens....so in all reality, they HAVE to trade him. The player is so special they can still demand the moon, but the longer this drags on, the worse bargaining position the Sens are in....So....I expect something sooner than later. 

They lowballed him by offering him 10 million a year.

 

If Doughty gets 11x8, Karlsson gets that as a starting point offer. Anything less is an insult for a generational talent defenseman.

 

Sens are quickly becoming the worst run team in the league.

 

With bergevin in montreal and benning in Vancouver, that is impressive.

[jammer2]

8 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

They lowballed him by offering him 10 million a year.

 

If Doughty gets 11x8, Karlsson gets that as a starting point offer. Anything less is an insult for a generational talent defenseman.

 

Sens are quickly becoming the worst run team in the league.

 

With bergevin in montreal and benning in Vancouver, that is impressive.

 

 Don't want to this thread off topic, but all Benning had to do was not give out any stupid contracts, keep them short....and let the core mature.....LOL, those 4 UFA signings will set that team back when they need it most. A 10 year old could have done a better job of GM'ing. 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

2 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 Don't want to this thread off topic, but all Benning had to do was not give out any stupid contracts, keep them short....and let the core mature.....LOL, those 4 UFA signings will set that team back when they need it most. A 10 year old could have done a better job of GM'ing. 

 

Ok, then, that decides it.... 

My oldest son is 11, I can quickly get him a work visa (our family already all have 10 year Canadian passports), we will move to Seattle, then he can commute to Vancouver, where he will promptly take the Canuck GM job.

 

He IS good with math, creative problem solving, and ALWAYS seems to end up with more cookies than candy he gives away when dealing with his friends.....he'd be a natural.... 

[ruxpin]

22 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 The bottom line is Karlsson has refused to sign an extension with the Sens....so in all reality, they HAVE to trade him. The player is so special they can still demand the moon, but the longer this drags on, the worse bargaining position the Sens are in....So....I expect something sooner than later. 

Right. Any one of those teams has obviously already talked to Karlsson (by permission, comically enough). 

 

If the Senators insist on Ryan going with, then screw them. They can wait and lose him like the Islanders with Tavares, for absolutely nothing. 

 

One of the teams that has spoken to him could have a verbal deal with him worked out. He just needs to make it through the season without significant injury.   There are only a handful of teams with the cap room for Karlsson, so not a tremendous amount of competition. 

 

Screw the Senators. By far the biggest clown car organization in hockey. 

[ruxpin]

11 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

Ok, then, that decides it.... 

My oldest son is 11, I can quickly get him a work visa (our family already all have 10 year Canadian passports), we will move to Seattle, then he can commute to Vancouver, where he will promptly take the Canuck GM job.

 

He IS good with math, creative problem solving, and ALWAYS seems to end up with more cookies than candy he gives away when dealing with his friends.....he'd be a natural.... 

Dammit. I was hoping to do something similar with my dog. 

[jammer2]

4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Right. Any one of those teams has obviously already talked to Karlsson (by permission, comically enough). 

 

If the Senators insist on Ryan going with, then screw them. They can wait and lose him like the Islanders with Tavares, for absolutely nothing. 

 

One of the teams that has spoken to him could have a verbal deal with him worked out. He just needs to make it through the season without significant injury.   There are only a handful of teams with the cap room for Karlsson, so not a tremendous amount of competition. 

 

Screw the Senators. By far the biggest clown car organization in hockey. 

 

 The Sens greatly diminish the return by attempting this Ryan crap. They should make the best hockey trade for Karlsson and just buy out Ryan. 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Right. Any one of those teams has obviously already talked to Karlsson (by permission, comically enough). 

 

If the Senators insist on Ryan going with, then screw them. They can wait and lose him like the Islanders with Tavares, for absolutely nothing. 

 

One of the teams that has spoken to him could have a verbal deal with him worked out. He just needs to make it through the season without significant injury.   There are only a handful of teams with the cap room for Karlsson, so not a tremendous amount of competition. 

 

Screw the Senators. By far the biggest clown car organization in hockey. 

 

While I can certainly see the reasoning here, I am not gonna dump on the Sens, simply because, pre-Steve Yzerman, during the late 90's into the turn of the millennium, the LIGHTNING were the stick-12-clowns-in-a-Toyota-Corolla show.

 

If anything, I feel the worst for the Senator fans who were teased with vision of this team moving upwards and icing a competitor every year....only to see everything from losing superstars, to asshat dealings, to drama worthy of an episode of Jerry Springer go on with this team.

 

I can honestly say I feel for those fans because I remember feeling tinier than Buffalo's chances at a Cup when the Bolts were THE place to be if you wanted to get paid, hang around the beach, sip pina coladas and not worry about bothersome things like winning hockey games...… all the while the front office fit in better with the Muppet Show than an NHL GM's conference....

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, jammer2 said:

 

 The Sens greatly diminish the return by attempting this Ryan crap. They should make the best hockey trade for Karlsson and just buy out Ryan. 

That's the thing. Any team taking him will buy him out, too. That's still $3.6M for the next 4 years and $1.83M for the 4 years after.  Assuming Karlsson is signed for $11M, Ottawa is trying to get a team to clear out $14.6M of cap space after they've signed people, etc. 

 

It's nuts. Meanwhile, the idiot owner continues to rub pomegranate on his groin while smoking ganja and thinking this makes sense. 

[jammer2]

4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

That's the thing. Any team taking him will buy him out, too. That's still $3.6M for the next 4 years and $1.83M for the 4 years after.  Assuming Karlsson is signed for $11M, Ottawa is trying to get a team to clear out $14.6M of cap space after they've signed people, etc. 

 

It's nuts. Meanwhile, the idiot owner continues to rub pomegranate on his groin while smoking ganja and thinking this makes sense. 

 

 You can tell Melynk has inserted himself in this whole mess. One can make a serious argument he's the worst owner in pro sports. Even if he sells, I can't see Ottawa making it....the arena being so far away from Ottawa is KILLER. The league should buy this team and relocate it where they see fit, cause NO WAY IN HELL does Ottawa support a last place team....there is no patience or time for a rebuild, the fans simply will not support it. 

[ruxpin]

15 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

While I can certainly see the reasoning here, I am not gonna dump on the Sens, simply because, pre-Steve Yzerman, during the late 90's into the turn of the millennium, the LIGHTNING were the stick-12-clowns-in-a-Toyota-Corolla show.

 

If anything, I feel the worst for the Senator fans who were teased with vision of this team moving upwards and icing a competitor every year....only to see everything from losing superstars, to asshat dealings, to drama worthy of an episode of Jerry Springer go on with this team.

 

I can honestly say I feel for those fans because I remember feeling tinier than Buffalo's chances at a Cup when the Bolts were THE place to be if you wanted to get paid, hang around the beach, sip pina coladas and not worry about bothersome things like winning hockey games...… all the while the front office fit in better with the Muppet Show than an NHL GM's conference....

I'm gonna completely dump on the Senators. This isn't simply going through a bad cycle.  This isn't signing VLC to a ridiculous contract 20 minutes after using your get out of jail free cards on Briere and Spacenuts.  

 

And at least Tampa did get a cup out of it. 

 

This is horrific mismanagement from a hockey and public relations and Intro to Business 101 standpoint. 

 

They completely butchered (and continue to) the Daniel Alfredsson thing. Spezza. The front office nonsense. The arena. The Hoffman thing. Karlsson. Ryan. Allowing Stone to go to arbitration (fyi, he's gone next year, too). The list goes on. 

 

I feel bad for the fans, but while you can hardly blame them at this pint, they haven't exactly shown up either. 

 

I said this in another thread, but I'll repeat it here:  the NHL needs to seize the franchise and sell it. It's not without precedent in sports, though I don't recall an instance in the NHL.  The ownership is a joke, and it's a black mark on the league at this point. It really doesn't matter who the GM is; it's the owner. Remove the franchisee and move on. 

[ruxpin]

3 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 You can tell Melynk has inserted himself in this whole mess. One can make a serious argument he's the worst owner in pro sports. Even if he sells, I can't see Ottawa making it....the arena being so far away from Ottawa is KILLER. The league should buy this team and relocate it where they see fit, cause NO WAY IN HELL does Ottawa support a last place team....there is no patience or time for a rebuild, the fans simply will not support it. 

Funny, I was just writing and advocating this very thing at the same time. 

[jammer2]

13 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Funny, I was just writing and advocating this very thing at the same time. 

 

 Uncanny....that is a pretty off the wall conclusion for us BOTH to reach at the exact same time.....LOL!!

[JR Ewing]

19 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

It really doesn't matter who the GM is; it's the owner. Remove the franchisee and move on. 

 

Boy, you said it. If Eugene Melnyk resurrected Sam Pollock and made him GM, the team would still be dead in the water. Bad ownership can cripple a franchise.

[pilldoc]

Deloreans cold feet will cause him to be too scared to trade Karlsson and he will walk for nothing next year as a UFA. The prefect ending for an utterly crappy GM.

 

IMHO, I think the biggest snag in the Karlsson trade fiasco, which as has been mentioned all over the internet, is the insistence of the Sens trying to in include Bobby Ryan in any trade.  Ottawa seems persistent in removing him but I think when it comes down to it, teams are not comfortable with his cap hit and productivity. The longer this drags on the more time GM's have to anaylize it, the more they get uncomfortable about it.

[ruxpin]

22 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

Deloreans cold feet will cause him to be too scared to trade Karlsson and he will walk for nothing next year as a UFA. The prefect ending for an utterly crappy GM.

 

IMHO, I think the biggest snag in the Karlsson trade fiasco, which as has been mentioned all over the internet, is the insistence of the Sens trying to in include Bobby Ryan in any trade.  Ottawa seems persistent in removing him but I think when it comes down to it, teams are not comfortable with his cap hit and productivity. The longer this drags on the more time GM's have to anaylize it, the more they get uncomfortable about it.

I don't think it's just cold feet. I think the other teams are trying to get the Sens to take back some salary and the cheapskates are refusing.  It's making it very difficult to work with for the other teams. 

[OccamsRazor]

 

I would want something besides Callahan though....were would he even play?? 4th line RW??

[ruxpin]

17 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I would want something besides Callahan though....were would he even play?? 4th line RW??

 

Ryan Callahan?  I'm with you. What the hell do I want with Ryan Callahan?   Like you said, if Simmonds is staying, he's on the the 4th line.  Or worse, they push everyone up a line and move Konecny to 3LW.   I don't like any of that.

 

Now, if they want to give me Kucherov, I'll make the room.   He actually helps Tampa more because they need to resign him next summer and he's already at a $4.77M cap hit.   We can slide that in and still give him a raise next summer without really hurting ourselves.  We could actually do that and Stralman (he's up next summer).     They basically get an upgrade from Stralman to Karlsson at RD.    Stralman just delays Myers one season unless we're able to move Gudas.

 

I don't have any desire for Callahan.  Nice player, but I have no place for him.

 

EDIT:  have Voracek or Simmonds ever spent any time on the left side?  If we did get Callahan, could one of them slide to 3LW?   Or has Callahan ever played the left side?