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sweetshot

Wild's Ownership Are they really "Committed to Winning it All"

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Posted (edited)

 I hate to say it Wild fans(I'm one of them), but our owner doesn't care about winning as much as most of us posters do. I can't foresee any real changes until he's gone.

 

 

 

Edited by hf101
removed quote to split off a new topic
hf101

 A new topic for Discussion of Wild's ownership and management

Note added by hf101

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7 minutes ago, sweetshot said:

Agreed. I hate to say it Wild fans(I'm one of them), but our owner doesn't care about winning as much as most of us posters do. I can't foresee any real changes until he's gone.

 

(shrugs)  Not sure if I see it that way.  I think the owner has paid in a lot, especially to two players and wants to get a return on the investment.  Since they're locked into this team is kind of mandates the other moves that take place.  Fenton couldn't go out and spend freely in free agency not knowing what #16 or #24 would cost otherwise he might as well have announced the rest of the league that we're going to trade them no matter what.  

 

No doubt the Wild were thrown a bunch of horrible offers because people know our constraints.  Oh, you can't quite afford these two guys...let me offer you trash and hope you take it just because you need the cap relief.  As I once heard on a podcast, other GM's are not going to be throwing us lifelines, they're going to be throwing us anchors.  

 

All the more reason to be mad at Chuck Fletcher for signing a literal anchor in Mikko Koivu to another way overpaid contract for another two seasons and giving the Klydesdale a no movement clause on top of it.  Toss in the horrific deal to Marcus Foligno too.  

 

The problem with the Wild in regards to their signing of Pateryn; is they had to overpay to get him...when most teams draft players like that and develop them internally.  As much as the organization may want Carson Soucy to be that kind of player, I hate to say it folks...he really isn't.  

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2 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

(shrugs)  Not sure if I see it that way.  I think the owner has paid in a lot, especially to two players and wants to get a return on the investment.  Since they're locked into this team is kind of mandates the other moves that take place.  Fenton couldn't go out and spend freely in free agency not knowing what #16 or #24 would cost otherwise he might as well have announced the rest of the league that we're going to trade them no matter what.  

 

No doubt the Wild were thrown a bunch of horrible offers because people know our constraints.  Oh, you can't quite afford these two guys...let me offer you trash and hope you take it just because you need the cap relief.  As I once heard on a podcast, other GM's are not going to be throwing us lifelines, they're going to be throwing us anchors.  

 

All the more reason to be mad at Chuck Fletcher for signing a literal anchor in Mikko Koivu to another way overpaid contract for another two seasons and giving the Klydesdale a no movement clause on top of it.  Toss in the horrific deal to Marcus Foligno too.  

 

The problem with the Wild in regards to their signing of Pateryn; is they had to overpay to get him...when most teams draft players like that and develop them internally.  As much as the organization may want Carson Soucy to be that kind of player, I hate to say it folks...he really isn't.  

IMO he's already gotten plenty of return on his investment in Suter and Parise as attendance has been fantastic since their signings. He's currently trying to squeeze out more--the GM change gets him a couple more years of sellouts. The team will still be competitive for the short term and that's his main concern. I think you were in favor of a rebuild of this team(I am) in order to get to the next level right?--maybe I'm wrong about that--but CL is not willing to do that because a rebuild may result in a situation that could seriously affect attendance. That is why I say he doesn't want to win as much as some of us do--"Tweaks" won't get us there. 

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17 minutes ago, sweetshot said:

IMO he's already gotten plenty of return on his investment in Suter and Parise as attendance has been fantastic since their signings. He's currently trying to squeeze out more--the GM change gets him a couple more years of sellouts. The team will still be competitive for the short term and that's his main concern. I think you were in favor of a rebuild of this team(I am) in order to get to the next level right?--maybe I'm wrong about that--but CL is not willing to do that because a rebuild may result in a situation that could seriously affect attendance. That is why I say he doesn't want to win as much as some of us do--"Tweaks" won't get us there. 

 

(shrugs)  We are still not on the back end of their contract until AFTER this season.  I think we all realize tweaks are not enough, but it was monumentally foolish to give them 13-year deals AND no movement clauses.  And that isn't going to change; and no way will they waive them.  Not unless we make things really uncomfortable for them.  

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8 minutes ago, sweetshot said:

IMO he's already gotten plenty of return on his investment in Suter and Parise as attendance has been fantastic since their signings. He's currently trying to squeeze out more--the GM change gets him a couple more years of sellouts. The team will still be competitive for the short term and that's his main concern. I think you were in favor of a rebuild of this team(I am) in order to get to the next level right?--maybe I'm wrong about that--but CL is not willing to do that because a rebuild may result in a situation that could seriously affect attendance. That is why I say he doesn't want to win as much as some of us do--"Tweaks" won't get us there. 

 

The attendance CL is worried about isn't the regular season attendance. He has to split that with the players. It's the Playoff appearances. Money generated by concessions, ticket sales, memorabilia, etc. in the Playoffs goes almost 100% to the owners (In 2017-18 the NHL set aside $15M to split among the 16 teams players in the Playoffs). To me, that is why CL is concerned that the Wild can't make it out of the first round. The more rounds the Wild make, the more money he pockets...

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33 minutes ago, sweetshot said:

Agreed. I hate to say it Wild fans(I'm one of them), but our owner doesn't care about winning as much as most of us posters do. I can't foresee any real changes until he's gone.

 

I disagree with that as the Wild have made the playoffs the last 6 years in a row and have finished no lower than 5th in the division.  The owner has put the money out there to put a "winning team" on the ice as in acquiring top free agents, coaches etc to be competitive.  Sometimes it is just having the right mix of players and a little bit of luck with minimal injuries during the playoffs, but one can't blame an owner on not caring when there are many factors that come together during a cup run, but first things first, a team needs to win during the regular season to just make the playoffs.  The Wild are one of the few teams in the league to make the playoffs each of the last 6 years.  Only the Ducks in the West have done the same.

 

wild stats.png

 

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1 hour ago, hf101 said:

 

I disagree with that as the Wild have made the playoffs the last 6 years in a row and have finished no lower than 5th in the division.  The owner has put the money out there to put a "winning team" on the ice as in acquiring top free agents, coaches etc to be competitive.  Sometimes it is just having the right mix of players and a little bit of luck with minimal injuries during the playoffs, but one can't blame an owner on not caring when there are many factors that come together during a cup run, but first things first, a team needs to win during the regular season to just make the playoffs.  The Wild are one of the few teams in the league to make the playoffs each of the last 6 years.  Only the Ducks in the West have done the same.

 

wild stats.png

 

First let me say that I don't disagree with anything you said in your post--except--I don't think I said CL didn't care. He cares to the point of having a competitive team on the ice. Around here that alone keeps the seats full--that and we are embarrassed about losing the North Stars, and don't want it to happen again--so we keep filling the seats. I'm also not trying to lay blame, it's his team and he can run it the way he likes.

The first quote out of CL's mouth after they signed ZP and RS, was what "a great business decision it was".

He(and GMCF) have never made the kind of personnel moves that most of us posters think they need to make in order to be a contender. We could see pretty quickly after signing ZP and RS, that something more/different needed to be done.

He was quoted about 4 years ago(maybe not that long ago) admitting his team didn't have the goods to win it all, and yet for the most part, didn't change anything as far as I could tell. Until recently of course.

 

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18 hours ago, Starofthenorth said:

Judging by the heights and weights of the wild invitees you'd think this would be a group of high school freshman or sophomores just hitting puberty. The goalie Kaapo Kahkonen is the largest combined player between height and weight at 6'2" 222 lbs. 

As larger as he gets in the net as more difficult the puck will have a chance to pass through.🤔☺️.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

I disagree with that as the Wild have made the playoffs the last 6 years in a row and have finished no lower than 5th in the division.  The owner has put the money out there to put a "winning team" on the ice as in acquiring top free agents, coaches etc to be competitive.  Sometimes it is just having the right mix of players and a little bit of luck with minimal injuries during the playoffs, but one can't blame an owner on not caring when there are many factors that come together during a cup run, but first things first, a team needs to win during the regular season to just make the playoffs.  The Wild are one of the few teams in the league to make the playoffs each of the last 6 years.  Only the Ducks in the West have done the same.

 

wild stats.png

 

 

Actually, the team, unfortunately, lost in 2012-2013 during the first round to Chicago team.

I agree, it is hard to blame everything on CL. During that consistent 6 years playoffs span he replaced 3 coaches and one general manager to get a better playoffs outcome. Tweaks also could be interpreted very freely - huge tweaks and minor tweaks bring different results. We will see which tweaks he will put on a panel to reach to the top of the Cup. 

 

Edited by Alexandron

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3 hours ago, hf101 said:

The owner has put the money out there to put a "winning team" on the ice as in acquiring top free agents, coaches etc to be competitive

I will disagree with you on this point. I would not classify any of the free agent signings as a top pick. 

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53 minutes ago, Tomdog said:

I will disagree with you on this point. I would not classify any of the free agent signings as a top pick. 

Me too, so far, especially for this year.

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13 hours ago, sweetshot said:

First let me say that I don't disagree with anything you said in your post--except--I don't think I said CL didn't care. He cares to the point of having a competitive team on the ice. Around here that alone keeps the seats full--that and we are embarrassed about losing the North Stars, and don't want it to happen again--so we keep filling the seats. I'm also not trying to lay blame, it's his team and he can run it the way he likes.

The first quote out of CL's mouth after they signed ZP and RS, was what "a great business decision it was".

He(and GMCF) have never made the kind of personnel moves that most of us posters think they need to make in order to be a contender. We could see pretty quickly after signing ZP and RS, that something more/different needed to be done.

He was quoted about 4 years ago(maybe not that long ago) admitting his team didn't have the goods to win it all, and yet for the most part, didn't change anything as far as I could tell. Until recently of course.

 

I'll add that his most recent move(new GM) does'nt appear to have put us on a different path--judging by our 2018 draft it seems like its just more of the same.

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23 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

I disagree with that as the Wild have made the playoffs the last 6 years in a row and have finished no lower than 5th in the division.  The owner has put the money out there to put a "winning team" on the ice as in acquiring top free agents, coaches etc to be competitive.  Sometimes it is just having the right mix of players and a little bit of luck with minimal injuries during the playoffs, but one can't blame an owner on not caring when there are many factors that come together during a cup run, but first things first, a team needs to win during the regular season to just make the playoffs.  The Wild are one of the few teams in the league to make the playoffs each of the last 6 years.  Only the Ducks in the West have done the same.

 

wild stats.png

 

 

And both clubs have done nothing, the only difference is our fans attend the games.  Honda Center has lots of empty seats each game.  Attendance is fine.  But I wouldn't say its a given to last forever especially as costs to attend games continue to rise.  

 

Many years back on the Wild.com message boards, it seemed like half of the forum were season ticket holders including many of those who migrated here.  Yet if you ask that same group now; very few are season ticket holders because at some point they either got priced out of renewing or they found better things to do with their money.  

 

I myself haven't been to a Wild game since the Stadium Series game against Chicago.  I am not even sure if the Wild got half of the revenue for that event.  I know they've tried grouping people together to keep people buying season tickets etc, and for a while they were talking about the 'Warming House' Again of people wanting to buy season ticket packages.  Yet does anyone know if they still had that old offer; if you paid in to join the 'warming house' that you got a priority chance at playoff tickets?  If so, that might be a reason why you had a warming house again; even though not many actually were going to purchase a season ticket package.  

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1 hour ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

And both clubs have done nothing, the only difference is our fans attend the games.  Honda Center has lots of empty seats each game.  Attendance is fine.  But I wouldn't say its a given to last forever especially as costs to attend games continue to rise.  

 

Many years back on the Wild.com message boards, it seemed like half of the forum were season ticket holders including many of those who migrated here.  Yet if you ask that same group now; very few are season ticket holders because at some point they either got priced out of renewing or they found better things to do with their money.  

 

I myself haven't been to a Wild game since the Stadium Series game against Chicago.  I am not even sure if the Wild got half of the revenue for that event.  I know they've tried grouping people together to keep people buying season tickets etc, and for a while they were talking about the 'Warming House' Again of people wanting to buy season ticket packages.  Yet does anyone know if they still had that old offer; if you paid in to join the 'warming house' that you got a priority chance at playoff tickets?  If so, that might be a reason why you had a warming house again; even though not many actually were going to purchase a season ticket package.  

 

I was an original season ticket holder. The first year I paid $24.50 for an upper deck side ticket. When I gave up my seats they cost me $29.50 per seat. The Wild had raised ticket prices roughly $1 per season, continued to sellout the building, but had one of the lowest payrolls in the league. And that was before there was a mandated a Cap Floor.

 

I gave up my seats after the Lockout season for several reasons: The Wild announced it was going to have an "Evaluation Year" for the 05-06 season, whatever that was. And then they had a set of brass balls to announce that they weren't raising season ticket prices! When every other team in the league REDUCED ticket prices after the Lockout, except for Toronto. So after adding in dinner ($50) and parking ($10), my evening with the Wild was costing about $120 per night. More if I had a babysitter.

 

I also had kids by this time, and it was getting harder and harder to find babysitters for them. Or I'd have to drop them off at my parents, and then wake them up at 2300 to bring them home, which led to crabby kids in the morning.

 

I still go to a game or two every year. The Mrs. company has season tickets, so she gets a couple of games per season, which is enough for me. I'm not sad I gave up the tickets.

 

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23 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

I was an original season ticket holder. The first year I paid $24.50 for an upper deck side ticket. When I gave up my seats they cost me $29.50 per seat. The Wild had raised ticket prices roughly $1 per season, continued to sellout the building, but had one of the lowest payrolls in the league. And that was before there was a mandated a Cap Floor.

 

I gave up my seats after the Lockout season for several reasons: The Wild announced it was going to have an "Evaluation Year" for the 05-06 season, whatever that was. And then they had a set of brass balls to announce that they weren't raising season ticket prices! When every other team in the league REDUCED ticket prices after the Lockout, except for Toronto. So after adding in dinner ($50) and parking ($10), my evening with the Wild was costing about $120 per night. More if I had a babysitter.

 

I also had kids by this time, and it was getting harder and harder to find babysitters for them. Or I'd have to drop them off at my parents, and then wake them up at 2300 to bring them home, which led to crabby kids in the morning.

 

I still go to a game or two every year. The Mrs. company has season tickets, so she gets a couple of games per season, which is enough for me. I'm not sad I gave up the tickets.

 

 

Again, I don't blame anyone for dropping their tickets.  This franchise has always treated its fans like a bunch of pawns, despite all the lame platitudes about "Greatest Hockey Fans, in the World" and the dumb retired #1.  

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1 hour ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Again, I don't blame anyone for dropping their tickets.  This franchise has always treated its fans like a bunch of pawns, despite all the lame platitudes about "Greatest Hockey Fans, in the World" and the dumb retired #1.  

I'm glad you've come around to my way of thinking.

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6 hours ago, rottenrefs said:

I'm glad you've come around to my way of thinking.

 

Rotty you really think you had the corner on that line of thought?  C'mon...I was talking about this before you even joined the Wild.com message boards.  

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19 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Rotty you really think you had the corner on that line of thought?  C'mon...I was talking about this before you even joined the Wild.com message boards.  

Actually I do because when I've brought it up (torching the owners) over the years, you and fargo would kindly remind me I'm out of my mind.

It wasn't until this last year or so where you guys are starting to agree.

You guys were like, 'they brought in Gabby...' Then list a host of others. Then you guys would mention Leipold is spending to the cap when I'd go off on him for not holding CF accountable. The same went for dumpster Doug.

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Ownership has spent to the max.  We certainly were not supportive in the years prior to it when they were a bargain basement payroll.  

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2 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

Ownership has spent to the max.  We certainly were not supportive in the years prior to it when they were a bargain basement payroll.  

I think that is the arguement. Naegle purposefully kept payroll low to maximize his profits when he sold. So what if he put a crappy team on the ice. He didn’t care. He saw the opportunity to make a bundle bringing hockey back to Minnesota and then selling the team to the highest bidder. 

Leipold has spent money on this team. Unfortunately he hasn’t spent it wisely. 

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7 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

I think that is the arguement. Naegle purposefully kept payroll low to maximize his profits when he sold. So what if he put a crappy team on the ice. He didn’t care. He saw the opportunity to make a bundle bringing hockey back to Minnesota and then selling the team to the highest bidder. 

Leipold has spent money on this team. Unfortunately he hasn’t spent it wisely. 

 

100% spot on.  It isn't a lack of want or effort from Leipold.  But Naegele, he had hoped to maximize his profits and he enjoyed banking on the sellouts with a lineup that was at the bottom 4 in payroll.  I even remember a poster who apparently had known the hire ups started talking about Naegele selling out his share of the team two years before it happened.    

 

If anyone read Tom Lynn's book, you should hear how he almost sounds like it made him ill when the team started to spend money.  But he was out when Risebrough was out.  

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Posted (edited)

Honestly, if there wasn't a salary cap, I think Leipold might have given Ed Snider, Mike Illitch, or James Dolan a run for their money on spending on the team...not that the team could afford to spend it at Snider-Illitch rates, but I don't think Leipold is afraid to spend money, unlike Naegle...

Edited by IllaZilla

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

I think that is the arguement. Naegle purposefully kept payroll low to maximize his profits when he sold. So what if he put a crappy team on the ice. He didn’t care. He saw the opportunity to make a bundle bringing hockey back to Minnesota and then selling the team to the highest bidder. 

Leipold has spent money on this team. Unfortunately he hasn’t spent it wisely. 

 

Edited by Davey J

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59 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

Honestly, if there wasn't a salary cap, I think Leipold might have given Ed Snider, Mike Illitch, or James Dolan a run for their money on spending on the team...not that the team could afford to spend it at Snider-Illitch rates, but I don't think Leipold is afraid to spend money, unlike Naegle...

 

I remember the early days before the cap where the Wild and its team salary of around $20 million would play against Colorado who was spending close to $70 million.  The Wild were so allergic to spending $$, the season after the lockout I think they bawked on bringing back Cliff Ronning because a difference in $300,000.  Yes to you and me, that's giant...but in pro sports terms that's like people arguing over $10 or $20.  

 

We certainly called out ownership in those days.  As far as Leipold goes, I think he wants to win a Stanley Cup.  I do think he listens to a few veteran players and they know they have his ear.  I am not sure if he's a person who wants to hear truth as much as he surrounds himself with people that say what he likes to hear.  I've wondered if that's why he insists on having space when he watches the games.  He doesn't want to hear anyone criticize those few he loves.  IMO, it might be a case of him serving two masters.  One his friendship / loyalty towards those vets and then of his interest to win a Stanley Cup.  Those vets have him convinced they need the vets to lead the way, even though stats, trends etc say a fair portion of them should be supplanted by younger players.  

 

Leipold has made comments about our passionate fan base etc, but I get a kick out of his extremely dismissive comments on people who blog.  Uh, who do you think blogs about the team?  Fans of the team.  I would say I do get the vibe that Craig thinks he knows more than the fans and that the scouts, coaches, front office know things other clubs don't appreciate, etc.  So the whole "we're smarter than the rest" is the kind of mentality is something we continue to see.  To quote Common Man...sad really.  

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1 hour ago, IllaZilla said:

I think we all agree the team needs a wake up call. Unfortunately Fletcher left this team in a bind with his habit of handing out NMC to every veteran player and then overpaying every young player.

 

So you could hoot and holler all you want. Koivu, Parise and Suter are going nowhere. Ever. And the younger players are either overpaid or they have performed poorly enough that no one wants to trade for them.  Or if offers are made, you may as well just keep the players and hope for the best.

Right, they aren't going anywhere. But you bench Koivu, Parise and Suter in front of the entire league and let me know how much of an impact they have (among their peers) after that. Doing so sends a message to the two younger players who got their big payday (Coyle and Brodin) and you can bet they either start pulling their weight or they're going to be humiliated in the same fashion.

 

Players on the bench need to stop dictating how this team is run. Leipold should have nipped this in the butt back before firing Todd Richards. Don't get me wrong there's a lot of other good coaches out there better than Richards, but this whole fiasco has gone on way too damn long.

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      Post
      (shrugs)  We are still not on the back end of their contract until AFTER this season.  I think we all realize tweaks are not enough, but it was monumentally foolish to give them 13-year deals AND no movement clauses.  And that isn't going to change; and no way will they waive them.  Not unless we make things really uncomfortable for them.  
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      I think that is the arguement. Naegle purposefully kept payroll low to maximize his profits when he sold. So what if he put a crappy team on the ice. He didn’t care. He saw the opportunity to make a bundle bringing hockey back to Minnesota and then selling the team to the highest bidder.  Leipold has spent money on this team. Unfortunately he hasn’t spent it wisely. 
    • 2
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      Yes, but Gaborik was a young player. He wasn’t an established veteran. It was probably easier to do that with a kid like Gaborik, especially when you are in the HOF and have your name on the Cup umpteen times.    Would be be interesting to see how Lemaire would have handled the 3 Stooges...    
    • 1
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      (shrugs)  Not sure if I see it that way.  I think the owner has paid in a lot, especially to two players and wants to get a return on the investment.  Since they're locked into this team is kind of mandates the other moves that take place.  Fenton couldn't go out and spend freely in free agency not knowing what #16 or #24 would cost otherwise he might as well have announced the rest of the league that we're going to trade them no matter what.     No doubt the Wild were thrown a bunch of horrible offers because people know our constraints.  Oh, you can't quite afford these two guys...let me offer you trash and hope you take it just because you need the cap relief.  As I once heard on a podcast, other GM's are not going to be throwing us lifelines, they're going to be throwing us anchors.     All the more reason to be mad at Chuck Fletcher for signing a literal anchor in Mikko Koivu to another way overpaid contract for another two seasons and giving the Klydesdale a no movement clause on top of it.  Toss in the horrific deal to Marcus Foligno too.     The problem with the Wild in regards to their signing of Pateryn; is they had to overpay to get him...when most teams draft players like that and develop them internally.  As much as the organization may want Carson Soucy to be that kind of player, I hate to say it folks...he really isn't.  
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      Nah, I think its more like this, and we're the Bob's....    

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