IllaZilla Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, sweetshot said: I think you would agree, however, that allowing the inmates to run the asylum is not a good idea. Look where it's gotten the Wild. You don't have to be like Mike Keenan to have control of your team and the respect of your players. There’s no doubt the Wild are a mess because they allow the 3 Stooges to run the show. All I’m saying is that if you take the “My way or the Highway” approach with modern players, it will probably be the coach on the highway, not the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetshot Posted July 15, 2018 Author Share Posted July 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, IllaZilla said: There’s no doubt the Wild are a mess because they allow the 3 Stooges to run the show. All I’m saying is that if you take the “My way or the Highway” approach with modern players, it will probably be the coach on the highway, not the player. There are times when that is the approach you may have to take with certain players. How about this example: I would assume this is the approach Lemaire realized he needed to take when trying to make Gaborik a better 2-way player. I'm not going to sit here and blame Lemaire for Gaborik leaving(we'll never really know why he left) because I believe there are specific situations when the "my way or the highway" approach is necessary. Like setting a team philosophy. Lemaire's players, all of them, were going to at least put forth the effort(if they needed to) to be better 2-way players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Just now, sweetshot said: There are times when that is the approach you may have to take with certain players. How about this example: I would assume this is the approach Lemaire realized he needed to take when trying to make Gaborik a better 2-way player. I'm not going to sit here and blame Lemaire for Gaborik leaving(we'll never really know why he left) because I believe there are specific situations when the "my way or the highway" approach is necessary. Like setting a team philosophy. Lemaire's players, all of them, were going to at least put forth the effort(if they needed to) to be better 2-way players. Yes, but Gaborik was a young player. He wasn’t an established veteran. It was probably easier to do that with a kid like Gaborik, especially when you are in the HOF and have your name on the Cup umpteen times. Would be be interesting to see how Lemaire would have handled the 3 Stooges... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 3 hours ago, IllaZilla said: Yes, but Gaborik was a young player. He wasn’t an established veteran. It was probably easier to do that with a kid like Gaborik, especially when you are in the HOF and have your name on the Cup umpteen times. Would be be interesting to see how Lemaire would have handled the 3 Stooges... Lemaire left when there was only one stooge to deal with and that would be Craig Leipold, when the owner drip himself put all his eggs behind Koivu. I'm certain Lamaire saw the skid coming and wasn't stupid enough to get hung out to dry with it. If only others could see the light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 8 hours ago, rottenrefs said: Lemaire left when there was only one stooge to deal with and that would be Craig Leipold, when the owner drip himself put all his eggs behind Koivu. I'm certain Lamaire saw the skid coming and wasn't stupid enough to get hung out to dry with it. If only others could see the light. Tom Lynn seemed to indicate Lemaire just kind of got extra paranoid and generally grouchy as time went on. Where he was unhappy even when the team was playing well and it sort of cast a shadow over the whole locker room. Not saying Tom's version of events is 100% accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetshot Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 12 hours ago, IllaZilla said: Yes, but Gaborik was a young player. He wasn’t an established veteran. It was probably easier to do that with a kid like Gaborik, especially when you are in the HOF and have your name on the Cup umpteen times. Would be be interesting to see how Lemaire would have handled the 3 Stooges... Yes, I would like to have seen that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 3 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: Tom Lynn seemed to indicate Lemaire just kind of got extra paranoid and generally grouchy as time went on. Where he was unhappy even when the team was playing well and it sort of cast a shadow over the whole locker room. Not saying Tom's version of events is 100% accurate. As I see it, understandably. DR drove the team into a hole. Fletcher was coming in. Leipold was humiliated, in print, for having a boring hockey team. Gabby was all Lemaire had to ignite the offense and I'm sure higher powers were buckling to give Kaptain Koivu the perminent C. With Lemaire being hired elsewhere later... he was not yet tired of coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Check Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 15 hours ago, IllaZilla said: Yes, but Gaborik was a young player. He wasn’t an established veteran. It was probably easier to do that with a kid like Gaborik, especially when you are in the HOF and have your name on the Cup umpteen times. Would be be interesting to see how Lemaire would have handled the 3 Stooges... Too funny! It would be equally interesting to see how "the 3 stooges" would react to Lemaire's decisions. My guess is.....a 13 year contract out trumps even 10 Stanley Cup rings. (Such is the world we live in today) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 9 hours ago, rottenrefs said: As I see it, understandably. DR drove the team into a hole. Fletcher was coming in. Leipold was humiliated, in print, for having a boring hockey team. Gabby was all Lemaire had to ignite the offense and I'm sure higher powers were buckling to give Kaptain Koivu the perminent C. With Lemaire being hired elsewhere later... he was not yet tired of coaching. I am not sure it was that, he may have simply been tired of management's meddling in general. At some point he just stopped having fun and wanted out. I think we've all been there...you just sort of become naturally short with people because the accumulated crap you just don't have the patience to deal with anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 12 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: I am not sure it was that, he may have simply been tired of management's meddling in general. At some point he just stopped having fun and wanted out. I think we've all been there...you just sort of become naturally short with people because the accumulated crap you just don't have the patience to deal with anymore. In my opinion, I think it was this. Look at what Lemaire accomplished in his career both on the ice and behind the bench. He didn't half-ass anything. But the Wild ownership was more concerned with the bottom line than what was occurring on the ice. So they were more than happy to put a half-assed roster together to put on the ice just to maximize profits. I think Lemaire did the best he could with the rosters he was given, but none of those teams were going to get close to the Cup. And he was not going to be given a team that might get to the Cup, because that meant the ownership had to spend money. And Naegle absolutely did not want to spend any money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Didn't read throug the whole thread, so forgive me if these points have already been mentioned. As far as attendance goes, they sell out the joint every night......to the tune of 106% of capacity. In that way, they are a lot like the Leafs, guaranteed to sell out, guaranteed fan support locally. However, I have to believe that managment wants to take profit to a new level....that means deep playoff runs. A deep playoff run(s) gets them to the promised land of profit.....and unlocks millions in merchandise sales. I have to believe ownership wants to unlock this door. They have not been wise with their investments, but it would be unfair to call them cheap also. I don't know anything about the Wild owner, so who knows if they really want things to be better for the fans.....but profit awaits....and that if nothing else, should be motivation to get better and win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, jammer2 said: Didn't read throug the whole thread, so forgive me if these points have already been mentioned. As far as attendance goes, they sell out the joint every night......to the tune of 106% of capacity. In that way, they are a lot like the Leafs, guaranteed to sell out, guaranteed fan support locally. However, I have to believe that managment wants to take profit to a new level....that means deep playoff runs. A deep playoff run(s) gets them to the promised land of profit.....and unlocks millions in merchandise sales. I have to believe ownership wants to unlock this door. They have not been wise with their investments, but it would be unfair to call them cheap also. I don't know anything about the Wild owner, so who knows if they really want things to be better for the fans.....but profit awaits....and that if nothing else, should be motivation to get better and win. Bingo. Leipold hasn't been afraid to spend money, unlike the original Wild ownership. The problem is, Leipold hasn't spent the money wisely. Players he's spent money on that haven't produced: Jason Pominville (the trade for him was sheer brilliance, the extension utter stupidity), Thomas Vanek (Mike Yeo had to be convinced that he was going to be a team player, ultimately bought out), Zach Parise (has yet to play a full season and point totals have been steadily declining since he signed a 13 year/$98M contract in 2012)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 11 hours ago, jammer2 said: Didn't read throug the whole thread, so forgive me if these points have already been mentioned. As far as attendance goes, they sell out the joint every night......to the tune of 106% of capacity. In that way, they are a lot like the Leafs, guaranteed to sell out, guaranteed fan support locally. However, I have to believe that managment wants to take profit to a new level....that means deep playoff runs. A deep playoff run(s) gets them to the promised land of profit.....and unlocks millions in merchandise sales. I have to believe ownership wants to unlock this door. They have not been wise with their investments, but it would be unfair to call them cheap also. I don't know anything about the Wild owner, so who knows if they really want things to be better for the fans.....but profit awaits....and that if nothing else, should be motivation to get better and win. Leipold has claimed he's lost money since he purchased the team even though we do sell out most nights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, CreaseAndAssist said: Leipold has claimed he's lost money since he purchased the team even though we do sell out most nights. A good accountant will make the numbers say anything...so when business owners claim they lose money, I always take it with a very large grain of salt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, IllaZilla said: A good accountant will make the numbers say anything...so when business owners claim they lose money, I always take it with a very large grain of salt... As one can take the 'sellout streak' when it was the same exact number for at least a few seasons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 3 hours ago, IllaZilla said: A good accountant will make the numbers say anything...so when business owners claim they lose money, I always take it with a very large grain of salt... That is my thoughts on the matter also. Unless they have a little tiny arena (which is not the case, it's average), I'm suspicious when an owner cries poor, especially from a team that sells out every single night. Seems to me, the sell outs would at least cover the bills and the sweet commercial and merchandise deals are pure profit. Even more skeptical if they own the arena and the concessions, which are a cash cow if I've ever seen one....not even talking about the outrageous parking fees....etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 We've gone through this before a few months ago. Minnesota Wild Revenue <-- link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 10 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: Leipold has claimed he's lost money since he purchased the team even though we do sell out most nights. And he can't be losing money. Because what smart business person would keep an endeavor that loses them money? I call no-believesies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 On 7/18/2018 at 6:06 AM, IllaZilla said: And he can't be losing money. Because what smart business person would keep an endeavor that loses them money? I call no-believesies... Oh yea? You think its... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Is there anything Craig Leipold buys that doesn't lose money? Forbes says he bought the team for $225 million in 2009. By November 2017 Forbes stated the team is worth $440 million. How can he say he's losing money if he's doubled it in just 8 years? I've often pointed out he's wasting a ton of money on worthless signings... to the tune of about $80 million on some slug veterans, but he's still rolling in the dough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 45 minutes ago, rottenrefs said: Is there anything Craig Leipold buys that doesn't lose money? Forbes says he bought the team for $225 million in 2009. By November 2017 Forbes stated the team is worth $440 million. Must be that new math they’re teaching nowadays... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 minute ago, IllaZilla said: Must be that new math they’re teaching nowadays... But he's not so young. Just added an edit as you posted this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Just now, rottenrefs said: But he's not so young. Just added an edit as you posted this. Depends on what he calls a “loss”. And the tax laws have so many loopholes for businesses to use “losses” to reduce profits, thereby reducing tax burden. Like I posted earlier, a good accountant can make the numbers say anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomdog Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 18 minutes ago, IllaZilla said: Depends on what he calls a “loss”. And the tax laws have so many loopholes for businesses to use “losses” to reduce profits, thereby reducing tax burden. Like I posted earlier, a good accountant can make the numbers say anything. If he does his books the way the govt does, not making your projected profit equals a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Filing a loss on Backstrom, Havlat, Heatley, Vanek and Pominville would have been wise. That covers a good 75 million or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.