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sweetshot

MK's influence--WHY?

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I have had trouble with totally buying into the opinion shared by many on this forum regarding Mikko Koivu's influence on management's(coach and GM) decisions, as if he's almost got this team by the throat and he's issuing demands.

He's not a superstar, his team hasn't really had much success, he's not very good with the media, doesn't come across as being particularly funny or personable. I really haven't heard much from any oI ther players or management on this team gushing about what a great teammate or captain he is. Haven't heard the national media say all that much about him, either.

 

Any speculation as to how or why he would be given the kind of influence many of you say he has--I just don't see it. Please enlighten me!

This probably has been discussed before, I just wasn't around to hear any of it.

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Posted (edited)

This team has fallen over itself talking about how they think Mikko Koivu is such a great captain.  They talk about his work ethic, etc...they cue the broadcasts to peddle excuses why we should accept less than average production because of his 'tremendous leadership.'  It is also clear the organization has danced around his ego quite a bit; from linemates to ice time and opportunity.  They don't want to make Mikko upset because he might...yell at someone and do nothing. (gasp)  

 

But why do they do it?  Lots of fun speculation on that, from compromising pictures...to the fact they are somehow just scared of the guy.  People either love him or they hate him...many around here seem to be in the latter camp (deal with it).  

 

I think its pretty obvious...but hey, if you take your head out of the Wild-colored sand maybe you'll see it.  

Edited by CreaseAndAssist
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1 hour ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

This team has fallen over itself talking about how they think Mikko Koivu is such a great captain.  They talk about his work ethic, etc...they cue the broadcasts to peddle excuses why we should accept less than average production because of his 'tremendous leadership.'  It is also clear the organization has danced around his ego quite a bit; from linemates to ice time and opportunity.  They don't want to make Mikko upset because he might...yell at someone and do nothing. (gasp)  

 

But why do they do it?  Lots of fun speculation on that, from compromising pictures...to the fact they are somehow just scared of the guy.  People either love him or they hate him...many around here seem to be in the latter camp (deal with it).  

 

I think its pretty obvious...but hey, if you take your head out of the Wild-colored sand maybe you'll see it.  

The "why" is not obvious at all. I'm neither a Mikko hater or apologist(I do think he has been a good, consistent player for the Wild), nor is my head buried in Wild-colored sand. There is also many more Mikko likers/lovers than haters out there, even among knowledgable fans.

If one can't come up with an answer(or even a theory) to the question why, is it really true(to the extent some believe it is)?

I've never seen Koivu yell at anybody, nor have I seen or heard anything that would indicate he has an ego any bigger than anyone else on this team. In fact, I've always thought the guy was pretty humble. Yes, I've heard the guys who broadcast the games talk about him ad nauseum, but as far as comments from the front office or teammates, not all that much. You hear the typical respect for a veteran/teammate type comments, not much more than that.

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Mikko's a jackass.

If over the last 7 years you haven't seen 1 post about Mikko's mini tirades, or haven't seen him stare down teammates, or ignore teammates, or turn his back on them then that's just too bad because in those 7 years there have been hundreds of examples to him either getting his way or ? (No coach or GM has ever challenged him.) Why? My guess has always been he's in bed with Leipold so no  one dares say a word.

 

Some teammates have been oddly quiet about their relationship with Mikko. Not one player defies him or they're gone... Like in the case of Havlat. Havlat skipped a team dinner for some reason and a feud between them broke out and they got rid of Havlat. Someone asked Chris Stewart about his relationship with Mikko and he pretty much clammed up, referring to not ever pulling any pranks on him (but Mikko pulls them on others.) It just better never go the other way around.

 

In dozens of posts over the years I've detailed how just about every player the Wild acquire they end up on a line with Mikko... for a game or two then they go down the ranks of lines and in short order they're off the team. Players who have ties to Mikko and Finland.

 

for a couple years after acquiring Suter and Parise, Mikko and Parise were on the top line. But the line was horrible for two long years. Every time they plugged someone else in their role due to an injury or something, it would catch fire and when they either of them got back from an injury it was the same thing all over again = insanity.

 

I could go on but we're heading out for the evening.

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And there was the hissy fit when Antti Miettinen was taken off his line, even though Miettinen had hands of cement on a good day and cold pressed steel on a bad day...

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11 hours ago, sweetshot said:

The "why" is not obvious at all. I'm neither a Mikko hater or apologist(I do think he has been a good, consistent player for the Wild), nor is my head buried in Wild-colored sand. There is also many more Mikko likers/lovers than haters out there, even among knowledgable fans.

If one can't come up with an answer(or even a theory) to the question why, is it really true(to the extent some believe it is)?

I've never seen Koivu yell at anybody, nor have I seen or heard anything that would indicate he has an ego any bigger than anyone else on this team. In fact, I've always thought the guy was pretty humble. Yes, I've heard the guys who broadcast the games talk about him ad nauseum, but as far as comments from the front office or teammates, not all that much. You hear the typical respect for a veteran/teammate type comments, not much more than that.

 

(yawn)  Not one thing?  Then honestly you must not be paying attention.  KFAN's Brandon Mileski and Pat Micheletti discussed they had Mikko Koivu listed as the top line center not because that was his true role, but because if they listed it as anything else he'd be unhappy and upset.  Read between the lines how the possibility of a demotion of Koivu to the 3rd line (as Eriksson Ek maybe gets a chance to anchor the 2nd line), everyone knows Mikko probably will probably make a scene and pout about it.  

 

Why offer Mikko a No Movement clause as a 35-year old center making $5.5 million a season?  Its because they were afraid of insulting him by NOT offering him a no movement.  Be damned that it was a stupid gesture, but they go out of their way to placate his apparently fragile ego.  

 

I've never seen Koivu really do much of anything to defend teammates or even himself.  He's chirped back, but have we seen him do much more than maybe a push or a shove?  Most of the time its just him with a staredown, some chirping and that's it.  I don't think he's humble.  I think he's entitled, and boring as hell to watch.  

 

We've given you ideas, you refuse to hear them, just as you appear to ignore what is obvious.  I won't waste any more words with your ignorance.  

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21 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

(yawn)  Not one thing?  Then honestly you must not be paying attention.  KFAN's Brandon Mileski and Pat Micheletti discussed they had Mikko Koivu listed as the top line center not because that was his true role, but because if they listed it as anything else he'd be unhappy and upset.  Read between the lines how the possibility of a demotion of Koivu to the 3rd line (as Eriksson Ek maybe gets a chance to anchor the 2nd line), everyone knows Mikko probably will probably make a scene and pout about it.  

 

Why offer Mikko a No Movement clause as a 35-year old center making $5.5 million a season?  Its because they were afraid of insulting him by NOT offering him a no movement.  Be damned that it was a stupid gesture, but they go out of their way to placate his apparently fragile ego.  

 

I've never seen Koivu really do much of anything to defend teammates or even himself.  He's chirped back, but have we seen him do much more than maybe a push or a shove?  Most of the time its just him with a staredown, some chirping and that's it.  I don't think he's humble.  I think he's entitled, and boring as hell to watch.  

 

We've given you ideas, you refuse to hear them, just as you appear to ignore what is obvious.  I won't waste any more words with your ignorance.  

I don't need another explanation of the situations where the Wild has apparently tip-toed around Koivu and his percieved reactions, I have already heard most of them. So your saying hurting Mikko's ego is what those around him are afraid of doing? If he's entitled and boring as hell to watch, Why would anyone care about bruising his ego a bit. If Koivu wasn't listed as the top line center, and he wasn't going to be the top line center, Why would the Wild care if he was unhappy and pouted about it if it were the truth?

 

Why(what reasons) do the Wild apparently have to continually go out of their way to placate Mikko Koivu?

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On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 4:39 PM, rottenrefs said:

Mikko's a jackass.

If over the last 7 years you haven't seen 1 post about Mikko's mini tirades, or haven't seen him stare down teammates, or ignore teammates, or turn his back on them then that's just too bad because in those 7 years there have been hundreds of examples to him either getting his way or ? (No coach or GM has ever challenged him.) Why? My guess has always been he's in bed with Leipold so no  one dares say a word.

 

Some teammates have been oddly quiet about their relationship with Mikko. Not one player defies him or they're gone... Like in the case of Havlat. Havlat skipped a team dinner for some reason and a feud between them broke out and they got rid of Havlat. Someone asked Chris Stewart about his relationship with Mikko and he pretty much clammed up, referring to not ever pulling any pranks on him (but Mikko pulls them on others.) It just better never go the other way around.

 

In dozens of posts over the years I've detailed how just about every player the Wild acquire they end up on a line with Mikko... for a game or two then they go down the ranks of lines and in short order they're off the team. Players who have ties to Mikko and Finland.

 

for a couple years after acquiring Suter and Parise, Mikko and Parise were on the top line. But the line was horrible for two long years. Every time they plugged someone else in their role due to an injury or something, it would catch fire and when they either of them got back from an injury it was the same thing all over again = insanity.

 

I could go on but we're heading out for the evening.

I wasn't looking for more situations where Koivu apparently got his way.

But thank you for your answer as to the possible reason why--he's been in bed with Leipold.  I'm not disagreeing with you. But that does open the door to another question doesn't it--Why is Leipold beholden to Koivu?

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2 hours ago, sweetshot said:

I don't need another explanation of the situations where the Wild has apparently tip-toed around Koivu and his percieved reactions, I have already heard most of them. So your saying hurting Mikko's ego is what those around him are afraid of doing? If he's entitled and boring as hell to watch, Why would anyone care about bruising his ego a bit. If Koivu wasn't listed as the top line center, and he wasn't going to be the top line center, Why would the Wild care if he was unhappy and pouted about it if it were the truth?

 

Why(what reasons) do the Wild apparently have to continually go out of their way to placate Mikko Koivu?

 

No clue why.  That's just who they've decided to hitch their wagon to.  Its either fear or admiration or both...does it matter?  The fact is they are clearly hesitant to rock the boat around him, and give in to just about any demand (anticipated or otherwise) he may have.  

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Leo doesn't make the player decisions, he focuses on fan interaction and the business end of the franchise, he delegates player acquisition, development and retention.

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1 hour ago, TonyOday said:

Leo doesn't make the player decisions, he focuses on fan interaction and the business end of the franchise, he delegates player acquisition, development and retention.

Agree to a point.   But it is well documented that he was totally involved on the Suter/Parise decision.   And it has been suggested in articles/podcasts that he pushed the Vanek envelope.     And of course, his latest on player acquisition...... the Wild need only "tweaking".   That's a pretty blatant parameter set for anyone interviewing for the GM job that they better not suggest  the Wild move too many of his cherished assets.

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2 hours ago, 4Check said:

Agree to a point.   But it is well documented that he was totally involved on the Suter/Parise decision.   And it has been suggested in articles/podcasts that he pushed the Vanek envelope.     And of course, his latest on player acquisition...... the Wild need only "tweaking".   That's a pretty blatant parameter set for anyone interviewing for the GM job that they better not suggest  the Wild move too many of his cherished assets.

 

This...

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Everyone in the state wanted Parise/Suter and the majority wanted Vanek. He saw it as a way to keep butts in the seats so he could keep making money.

 

He is the CEO, he sets the guidelines and then selects personnel that he thinks can accomplish that. 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/16/2018 at 7:33 PM, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

 

On 7/23/2018 at 7:56 AM, TonyOday said:

Leo doesn't make the player decisions, he focuses on fan interaction and the business end of the franchise, he delegates player acquisition, development and retention.

 

1 hour ago, TonyOday said:

Everyone in the state wanted Parise/Suter and the majority wanted Vanek. He saw it as a way to keep butts in the seats so he could keep, making money.

 

He is the CEO, he sets the guidelines and then selects personnel that he thinks can accomplish that. 

So, if he "saw it as a way to keep butts in the seats", you are agreeing that he did make those personnel decisions?    And what about stating BEFORE GM interviews, that he was looking for a GM who agreed with him that the Wild only needed "tweaking".    Wouldn't you agree that tells his GM in no uncertain terms..... he better not trade too many, if any, of his favorite players? 

Edited by 4Check
restructure

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On 7/24/2018 at 9:32 AM, 4Check said:

 

 

So, if he "saw it as a way to keep butts in the seats", you are agreeing that he did make those personnel decisions?    And what about stating BEFORE GM interviews, that he was looking for a GM who agreed with him that the Wild only needed "tweaking".    Wouldn't you agree that tells his GM in no uncertain terms..... he better not trade too many, if any, of his favorite players? 

 

I agree, he painted any future GM (Paul Fenton included obviously) into a corner by mandating only minor tweaks would be allowed.  It may have even limited the potential pool of candidates for GM as they knew they would not really have freedom to shape the team.  

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1 hour ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

I agree, he painted any future GM (Paul Fenton included obviously) into a corner by mandating only minor tweaks would be allowed.  It may have even limited the potential pool of candidates for GM as they knew they would not really have freedom to shape the team.  

 

Well, maybe if they have a disastrous season, Leipold will come out and say "Tweaks? I didn't mean to say "tweaks". I meant to say "Major Shake-up". But "tweaks" came out instead..."

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

Well, maybe if they have a disastrous season, Leipold will come out and say "Tweaks? I didn't mean to say "tweaks". I meant to say "Major Shake-up". But "tweaks" came out instead..."

 

Nah, I don't see Leipold doing that, even if he supported another person who did that...

Edited by CreaseAndAssist

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Posted (edited)

I think there has to be something more to all of this - it just doesn't make sense...  I can see if they view him as the face of this team - and smoking him would immediately impact revenues - but that is not the case - especially when they brought Zach and Suter on...  Mikko could be removed from this team tomorrow - and I'd be willing to bet the team overall would improve because of it - so there has to be something else...

 

And his new contract seemed odd to me - why would a team do that - especially if he were removed we'd probably improve...? Why not shove those monies into grooming several others - and increase your odds that they out produce Mikko (which wouldn't be hard to do)...?

 

Wish Yeo would hang it all up and write a book or something - bet there's a lot of dynamics we have no insights on...

Edited by Confrontational

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1 hour ago, Confrontational said:

I think there has to be something more to all of this - it just doesn't make sense...  I can see if they view him as the face of this team - and smoking him would immediately impact revenues - but that is not the case - especially when they brought Zach and Suter on...  Mikko could be removed from this team tomorrow - and I'd be willing to bet the team overall would improve because of it - so there has to be something else...

 

And his new contract seemed odd to me - why would a team do that - especially if he were removed we'd probably improve...? Why not shove those monies into grooming several others - and increase your odds that they out produce Mikko (which wouldn't be hard to do)...?

 

Wish Yeo would hang it all up and write a book or something - bet there's a lot of dynamics we have no insights on...

 

I'd like to read Fletcher's book.  Yeo could only produce a coloring book.  

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Years ago Rolston labeled Mikko "The Franchise" and the organization definitely ran with that idea and were over the top blowing smoke up the league's #1 Sheep about him being such a stud.    After Dumpster Doug totally screwed up handling Gaborik and he was lost for nothing the organization without a doubt hyped Mikko to an obscene level.   IMO it got to the point where the hype was insulting to fan's intelligence.  But was that Mikko's fault?  I don't see how...  

 

Do I believe that Mikko, Suter, and Parise had excessive influence on what was going on when  Mr Dear- in- the- Headlights Yeo was Coach?  Yes, definitely.  Yeo did defer to them way too much.   Without a doubt he was scared to pizz off the Vets so they continued to get prime 1st Unit PP and regular strength ice time.  There was no accountability.   Flectcher even admitted it after the season - they were afraid to offend the Vets!  Zucker, Coyle, and Nino and for that matter, especially Haula, were not given the respect and ice time they deserved.  But that was under Yeo.  Also, MiG was given WAY more ice time then he deserved, and I do believe that was Fletcher imposing his will on Yeo.   The baby jesus hype was nauseating.  He was going to score 70 points a s a rookie for phuck's sake!  Even Russo fell for that hype.

 

I do not believe that is the case under BB.  Boudreau benched Selanne, ending his career.   Selanne whined hugely to the media.   If BB has the guts to bench all time great HOF'er Selanne, he has the guts to reduce Mikko's role.  Why wasn't Mikko's role reduced last year?  No brainer - there was no one to replace him!  Unfortunately, it looks to be the same this season.

 

As far as Leipold micro-managing - I don't believe that, either.   Of course Fletcher consulted with him about the Parise and Suter mega-deals.  Any NHL GM would have gotten owner approval for a monstrous, almost unprecedented deal like that.    Leipold has said he doesn't interfere in personnel decisions and I believe him.   

 

Regarding Suter's ice time - I think BB quickly realized the Wild was a different team with him on the ice.  And even though logically, you'd think it would be beneficial to reduce his ice time, the primary goal is to Win, and Suter on the ice gives the team the best chance of winning. 

Edited by Fargocase

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On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 9:32 AM, 4Check said:

 

 

So, if he "saw it as a way to keep butts in the seats", you are agreeing that he did make those personnel decisions?    And what about stating BEFORE GM interviews, that he was looking for a GM who agreed with him that the Wild only needed "tweaking".    Wouldn't you agree that tells his GM in no uncertain terms..... he better not trade too many, if any, of his favorite players? 

 

I think that was Leipold talking like a fan.   I believe Fenton would have pulled the trigger on a big deal if there had been a decent one offered.  My outsider opinion is that Fenton was NOT prohibited from making a significant trade, there was no dance partner available. 

 

I am very disappointed with the total dud crop of home boy nobodies he did sign.   IMO the 4th Line will be worse.   I'd take Cullen and Winnick easily before any of the four dud forwards he signed.  But the reality is Fenton HAD to do something/anything.  And rearranging the 4th Liner Deck Chairs was about all he could do.  I suppose I should be thrilled he signed a big 3rd pair defenseman, at least...

Edited by Fargocase

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58 minutes ago, Fargocase said:

 

I think that was Leipold talking like a fan.   I believe Fenton would have pulled the trigger on a big deal if there had been a decent one offered.  My outsider opinion is that Fenton was NOT prohibited from making a significant trade, there was no dance partner available. 

 

I am very disappointed with the total dud crop of home boy nobodies he did sign.   IMO the 4th Line will be worse.   I'd take Cullen and Winnick easily before any of the four dud forwards he signed.  But the reality is Fenton HAD to do something/anything.  And rearranging the 4th Liner Deck Chairs was about all he could do.  I suppose I should be thrilled he signed a big 3rd pair defenseman, at least...

Well to your point,  it appears he came close to pulling the trigger with AZ before the Coyotes went a different direction with Domi (imo thank goodness).  Winnik did have a solid 4th line season.  His three position flexibililty was also a plus.   For some reason, BB and Cullen  (according to Russo) were often on different pages.    I was hoping for a havoc creating 4th line speedster at center for the upcoming season.  I suppose the fact that the Wild were desperate for a RH center limited the options.

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Fenton did say just 7-10 days ago or so while he was being interviewed at the Minnesota State Fair, that there were at least 6 big deals on the table... But also commented that they were mostly teams attempting to take advantage of 'the new guy' (meaning him) and none were considered. They were hoping him as a rookie GM would jump but he didn't.

 

He also noted the guys he added, were 'sand paper' where it's really needed. Likewise, the guys he acquired (a couple of them) were chosen to assist other players on the roster (and I'm using my terminology) to get in their heads and straighten then out to get them pointed in the right direction. Most notably brought up in the conversation was Coyle.

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21 hours ago, 4Check said:

 For some reason, BB and Cullen  (according to Russo) were often on different pages. 

 

I wish I knew the actual story on that.   Like I posted, no doubt that BB jerked Cullen around big time regarding line mates for much of the early part of last season, but I think we'd see a definite trend of increased ice time for Cullen the last 1/3 or 1/2 of the season if we looked at the game by game stats. 

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5 hours ago, Fargocase said:

 

I wish I knew the actual story on that.   Like I posted, no doubt that BB jerked Cullen around big time regarding line mates for much of the early part of last season, but I think we'd see a definite trend of increased ice time for Cullen the last 1/3 or 1/2 of the season if we looked at the game by game stats. 

Yeah...IMO Cullen had a solid second half, but it appears BB again lost some trust in him in the playoffs holding him to 11 min TOI.   

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      Agree to a point.   But it is well documented that he was totally involved on the Suter/Parise decision.   And it has been suggested in articles/podcasts that he pushed the Vanek envelope.     And of course, his latest on player acquisition...... the Wild need only "tweaking".   That's a pretty blatant parameter set for anyone interviewing for the GM job that they better not suggest  the Wild move too many of his cherished assets.
    • 1
      Post
      I have had trouble with totally buying into the opinion shared by many on this forum regarding Mikko Koivu's influence on management's(coach and GM) decisions, as if he's almost got this team by the throat and he's issuing demands. He's not a superstar, his team hasn't really had much success, he's not very good with the media, doesn't come across as being particularly funny or personable. I really haven't heard much from any oI ther players or management on this team gushing about what a great teammate or captain he is. Haven't heard the national media say all that much about him, either.   Any speculation as to how or why he would be given the kind of influence many of you say he has--I just don't see it. Please enlighten me! This probably has been discussed before, I just wasn't around to hear any of it.
    • 1
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      This team has fallen over itself talking about how they think Mikko Koivu is such a great captain.  They talk about his work ethic, etc...they cue the broadcasts to peddle excuses why we should accept less than average production because of his 'tremendous leadership.'  It is also clear the organization has danced around his ego quite a bit; from linemates to ice time and opportunity.  They don't want to make Mikko upset because he might...yell at someone and do nothing. (gasp)     But why do they do it?  Lots of fun speculation on that, from compromising pictures...to the fact they are somehow just scared of the guy.  People either love him or they hate him...many around here seem to be in the latter camp (deal with it).     I think its pretty obvious...but hey, if you take your head out of the Wild-colored sand maybe you'll see it.  
    • 1
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      Well, maybe if they have a disastrous season, Leipold will come out and say "Tweaks? I didn't mean to say "tweaks". I meant to say "Major Shake-up". But "tweaks" came out instead..."

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