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Dumba Signs...


4Check

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5 minutes ago, Icechipper said:

I just suspect one of either Dumba or Zucker will turn out to be a sign-and-trade, as the team is perilously close to the cap. Montreal could use break Dumba while Weber is out. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Icechipper said:

I just suspect one of either Dumba or Zucker will turn out to be a sign-and-trade, as the team is perilously close to the cap. Montreal could use Dumba while Weber is out. 

 

 

They won't trade Dumba. Not after losing Haula and Tuch to protect him. And besides, the Wild have their own problems on defense. No one really knows what Suter's status is. So if they trade Dumba and Suter isn't ready, they'll really be over a barrel...

 

Zucker's hearing is tomorrow, so we shall see...

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1 hour ago, IllaZilla said:

 

They won't trade Dumba. Not after losing Haula and Tuch to protect him. And besides, the Wild have their own problems on defense. No one really knows what Suter's status is. So if they trade Dumba and Suter isn't ready, they'll really be over a barrel...

 

Zucker's hearing is tomorrow, so we shall see...

Tomorrow is a big day (final arbitration paperwork due) but the actual scheduled hearing is at the end of the week.   Tonight's get together (according to Russo) between Zucker's agent and Fenton, Harder & company will be a close to last ditch attempt to avoid arbitration.

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14 minutes ago, 4Check said:

Tomorrow is a big day (final arbitration paperwork due) but the actual scheduled hearing is at the end of the week.   Tonight's get together (according to Russo) between Zucker's agent and Fenton, Harder & company will be a close to last ditch attempt to avoid arbitration.

 

I think the Wild are taking a big gamble with Zucker. 

 

Everyone makes a big damn deal about Dumba being 23 and scoring 50 points. Zucker is 26 and scored 30 goals. Goals. Not 14 goals and 36 assists. 30 Goals. You can’t win if you don’t score goals. The last drafted Wild player to score 30 goals was Marian Gaborik. 

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2 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

I think the Wild are taking a big gamble with Zucker. 

 

Everyone makes a big damn deal about Dumba being 23 and scoring 50 points. Zucker is 26 and scored 30 goals. Goals. Not 14 goals and 36 assists. 30 Goals. You can’t win if you don’t score goals. The last drafted Wild player to score 30 goals was Marian Gaborik. 

Yup!   And IMO Zucker has most of the leverage.    He can choose to turn down whatever the Wild are offering.....settle for the one year arbitration figure, become a UFA in 2019  then let 31 teams outbid each other for his services.  Of course, his gamble is possible injury and/or a poor statistical season.    My guess is, the Wild will have to pay a premium and very possibly have to add a NTC.   Zucker can pick his team next year.   If he signs a multi year deal and then gets traded,   he's stuck.

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On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 6:31 PM, IllaZilla said:

 

Well, the Wild will have three Brodin’s: Brodin, Olofsson, and now Johansson. Maybe I should call them the Schultz Triplets...

Let's not forget their long lost brother Simon Johansson...

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44 minutes ago, 4Check said:

Yup!   And IMO Zucker has most of the leverage.    He can choose to turn down whatever the Wild are offering.....settle for the one year arbitration figure, become a UFA in 2019  then let 31 teams outbid each other for his services.  Of course, his gamble is possible injury and/or a poor statistical season.    My guess is, the Wild will have to pay a premium and very possibly have to add a NTC.   Zucker can pick his team next year.   If he signs a multi year deal and then gets traded,   he's stuck.

Statistically speaking he's already had too many poor statistical seasons.

When you consider the team hardly ever lets him see PP time it's absurd. If I were his agent I'd ask why is Jason seeing 2 minutes less per game than Granlund? Why is Koivu on the 2nd line seeing 20 minutes a game?

 

Granted not every game is like that but who are they fooling? When it comes to scoring percentage Zucker makes them look sick. How about they compare him to their best left wing (in Parise)? 

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If Zucker could show more in the playoffs, he would clearly have much more leverage with Wild and league in terms of contract.  If I were his agent I would tie a one year deal with playing time and power play ommitments.  The Wild would screw him on a one year deal if they knew he would take the UFA route.   I would NOT trust them

 

My guess is that Brodin is moved as soon s Suter’s status is more clear.  With the Dumba new contract, they simply have too much invested in the back relative to performance.  Bad contract and player management.  Too many clones and glaring holes. 

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10 hours ago, 4Check said:

I'm just guessin", but I think his meaning for "outsider" is a tongue in cheek reference to Dumba not being......."One of us!"   🙄

Yep. That's what I meant and thank you for clarifying it for me. By the way, it's her*, not his. 😉 

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3 hours ago, Hockey-78 said:

True.

 

What was their +/- rating in those first 22 games?

Good question Housley career points 1232 -53  Weber points 501 +60  Al Maclnnis points 1274  +371  Ray Bourque points 1579  +527  Uncle Gary 844  +126  Jeff Brown 548  -51 I know this had nothing to do with + and - in those first 22 games but you can see who took care of the defense along with the offense.  

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1 minute ago, Bear said:

Good question Housley career points 1232 -53  Weber points 501 +60  Al Maclnnis points 1274  +371  Ray Bourque points 1579  +527  Uncle Gary 844  +126  Jeff Brown 548  -51 I know this had nothing to do with + and - in those first 22 games but you can see who took care of the defense along with the offense.  

Yeah, I was wondering how many of them scored with the expense of defense. Most of them like Dumba played a lot of PP so the amount of goals is probably a better indicator of that. Plus the fact they all had a cannon of a shot.

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On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 9:51 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

As an outsider i think this is a good deal especially at today's going rate.

 

Coming off a 14 goal 50 point season. A right handed defenseman (worth their weight in gold) who just turned 23.

 

If you look at his point progression in a year or two if he continues to climb in production this could turned into a helluva contract.

Good call OR. He's got 10 goals in 22 games so far this season....

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3 hours ago, sweetshot said:

Bobby Orr will openly admit he left his teammates to cover for him many times as he went on the offensive. In fact, he looks back now and sheepishly chuckles at how often he did that.

Am I comparing Dumba to Orr...?

I do, but not in the same realm. Both like to get involved on offense and Dumba has similar characteristics to his game. Yeo constantly punished him for that, I thought it (always) wrong... And it would strip him of his passion for the game. IMO that was just wrong.

 

For the last several years offensive players simply refused to cover his corner on the blue line... With Boudreau that's slowly changed and look where they're at now as a result.

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On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 1:03 PM, Hockey-78 said:

Yeah, I was wondering how many of them scored with the expense of defense. Most of them like Dumba played a lot of PP so the amount of goals is probably a better indicator of that. Plus the fact they all had a cannon of a shot.

 

On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 2:54 PM, sweetshot said:

Bobby Orr will openly admit he left his teammates to cover for him many times as he went on the offensive. In fact, he looks back now and sheepishly chuckles at how often he did that.

Am I comparing Dumba to Orr...?

 

When Bobby Orr took off there was no need to "cover for him."  He took off and scored.  Go find Bobby Orr's +/- numbers.  They are insane.   Any time anyone starts comparing any defenceman to Bobby Orr it's ridiculous.  He was an anomoly, a statistical outlier, he revolutionized the game.    To be fair, compare Dumba to current players.  You think Dumba takes chances?  Ever seen Paul Cofffey play?  Different game now.  Compare him to current elite offensive defensemen and I think he compares extremely well.  Take into account his age and contract and he's an exceedingly valueable NHL commoditiy.   IMO complaining about his plus/minus right now, which isn't even bad!, is really quibbling and grasping at straws.  His goals and offesne are a huge part of the team's current success.

 

I thought it was pretty obvious Dumba made huge strides last half of last year playing with Suter.  The bone head plays were drastically fewer.   It's a given there are going to be graoners, there is with every offensive defenseman.   IMO Dumba's obviously learned and is learning a lot with more experience.    His goal scoring and offensive generation far out-weighs the current number of bone head gaffs.  This kid is no Skoula!   He's another Brent Burns, just not as goofy and six-seven inches shorter.    Plus the enthusiasm and love for the game is infectious, it makes the whole team better.   The exact oppostie of a guy like Mikko, who sulks and pouts when things go bad and doesn't inspire teammates.

 

Comparing +/- for players on different teams is useless.   +/- is a good stat when you compare players on the same team, taking into account their role. 

 

 

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BTW - sweetshot - can you post a link to where Orr made those comments?   I don't rmember anything like that from reading his book or any interviews I've heard/read over the years.  Never, ever did I hear/read that he said he had any regret for the way he played.  I think you just pulled that silly little vignette out of your azz.  

 

Bobby Orr "sheepishly chuckled'?!   That's totally contrary to what I've seen of the guy's super serious demeanor and personality.

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3 minutes ago, Icechipper said:

Orr went coast to coast, lugging the puck through three zones. Nobody does that today.....

The lost art of stick handling.  Eichel has it down fairly well as did Perrault also.  But its also a different game now.  You certainly see more of it attempted on these 3 on 3 overtimes

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5 hours ago, Fargocase said:

BTW - sweetshot - can you post a link to where Orr made those comments?   I don't rmember anything like that from reading his book or any interviews I've heard/read over the years.  Never, ever did I hear/read that he said he had any regret for the way he played.  I think you just pulled that silly little vignette out of your azz.  

 

Bobby Orr "sheepishly chuckled'?!   That's totally contrary to what I've seen of the guy's super serious demeanor and personality.

Bobby Orr is possibly the most humble athelete I have ever heard. Seems to be a trait many hockey players(especially the great Canadian players) share.

 I wish I could remember the cable show/special--kind of a roundtable discussion about the state of the game I think. He was sitting at a table with Bobby Clark, Mario Lemieux, Wayne Gretzky and somebody else I can't remember. I didn't catch the whole show as I was channel surfing and it caught my attention. Might have been on NBC sports channel.

He was +124 one season with the Bruins, such an outrageous number I laugh whenever I hear it! 

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6 hours ago, Fargocase said:

 

 

When Bobby Orr took off there was no need to "cover for him."  He took off and scored.  Go find Bobby Orr's +/- numbers.  They are insane.   Any time anyone starts comparing any defenceman to Bobby Orr it's ridiculous.  He was an anomoly, a statistical outlier, he revolutionized the game.    To be fair, compare Dumba to current players.  You think Dumba takes chances?  Ever seen Paul Cofffey play?  Different game now.  Compare him to current elite offensive defensemen and I think he compares extremely well.  Take into account his age and contract and he's an exceedingly valueable NHL commoditiy.   IMO complaining about his plus/minus right now, which isn't even bad!, is really quibbling and grasping at straws.  His goals and offesne are a huge part of the team's current success.

 

I thought it was pretty obvious Dumba made huge strides last half of last year playing with Suter.  The bone head plays were drastically fewer.   It's a given there are going to be graoners, there is with every offensive defenseman.   IMO Dumba's obviously learned and is learning a lot with more experience.    His goal scoring and offensive generation far out-weighs the current number of bone head gaffs.  This kid is no Skoula!   He's another Brent Burns, just not as goofy and six-seven inches shorter.    Plus the enthusiasm and love for the game is infectious, it makes the whole team better.   The exact oppostie of a guy like Mikko, who sulks and pouts when things go bad and doesn't inspire teammates.

 

Comparing +/- for players on different teams is useless.   +/- is a good stat when you compare players on the same team, taking into account their role. 

 

 

I was only joking--not comparing Dumba to Orr--just saying that if a team does have a talented offensive defensman, there will be occasions where a teammate(s) will need to have his back.

I do go back a few years, I did see Orr play in person as a young teenager.

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On 11/25/2018 at 4:19 PM, sweetshot said:

Bobby Orr is possibly the most humble athelete I have ever heard. Seems to be a trait many hockey players(especially the great Canadian players) share.

 I wish I could remember the cable show/special--kind of a roundtable discussion about the state of the game I think. He was sitting at a table with Bobby Clark, Mario Lemieux, Wayne Gretzky and somebody else I can't remember. I didn't catch the whole show as I was channel surfing and it caught my attention. Might have been on NBC sports channel.

He was +124 one season with the Bruins, such an outrageous number I laugh whenever I hear it! 

Someone this year on KFAN spoke of Orr (quoting him) noting what you said about him leaving his teammates to cover for him. Hell, it might have been Tom Reid when he was noting Dumba's scoring and the Wild's d-core scoring (in general.)

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