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Howie58

Flyers Goaltending Situation

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Greetings:

 

I thought this was an interesting take on the goalie situation.  

 

https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2018/7/20/17588626/making-sense-of-the-flyers-goaltending-situation-carter-hart-alex-lyon-neuvirth-elliot-stolarz

 

Some suggest three goalies in the AHL is workable.  This piece suggests Stolarz gets loaned to another AHL squad (different approach; never even thought about that).  I really can't see Neuvy on the team.  He has the third trainer in as many summers. Yikes...can we really believe the third will be a charm?  

 

Maybe we should do a two-stage poll--First Q: Will Neuvy be on the roster on opening day? Y/N.  If No, Options are Trade, Waiver, Injury in Camp, ICE Detention....who knows?

 

I have to wonder if Stolarz is actually better trade bait than Neuvy...yes, he has had injuries, but there is an NHL history and a pretty good AHL record.  Salary is certainly low.

 

Sorry for summer semi-blather...not much else going on.

 

Howie

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9 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Some suggest three goalies in the AHL is workable.

 

 

I am hoping this works itself out a little better by the time the season starts.

 

By that i mean one of either Stolie or Lyon  show they are ready to unseat Neuvy as the backup and then maybe Ron can trade Neuvy somewhere. Fingers crossed.

 

However 3 goalies in the AHL is not a great option. You could start Hart in the ECHL till you can find somewhere to ship a goalie.

 

If it is Lyon or Stolie who has to be sent to the ECHL then yeah they would have to ok it....so they could force Ron hand if they were not down with that.

 

Sure Hart to start in the ECHL is not ideal but he is the only one on a entry level deal who can be sent down without being asked.

 

As i said to start i hope we have a better idea of what is to take place this year after preseason and camp is under way.

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Posted (edited)

To take this list of teams from the article places to ship Neuvy or worse case Lyon too...

 

 

lyon_backups.jpg

 

 

...so not a long list of options...

Edited by OccamsRazor

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I wonder how easy it is to find a team willing to take a goaltender on loan from another organization.  In other words, I wonder if most AHL teams are more focused on playing/developing goaltenders for their affiliated NHL organizations and therefore less inclined to take on player in another NHL team's depth chart.  I get that the AHL isn't strictly a developmental league, so maybe there would be some interest.

 

Not sure what to expect in terms of goaltending.  The injury histories of Eliott, Stolarz and Neuvirth pretty much require that you have substantial depth at the position in case any two of them go down at any point.  My wish is that one of the young kids can demonstrate that they can be a reliable, full-time back-up to Elliott and that Hextall can somehow jettison Neuvirth.  Maybe Lyon is that guy.  Whoever it is will have to be able to play at least a solid 30-35 games.  Who do you feel comfortable with in that role?

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11 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

By that i mean one of either Stolie or Lyon  show they are ready to unseat Neuvy as the backup and then maybe Ron can trade Neuvy somewhere. Fingers crossed.

Agree.  I hope something happens along these lines during camp.

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1 minute ago, vis said:

Agree.  I hope something happens along these lines during camp.

 

 

Honestly i expect the monkey wrench thrown in the whole plan is a motivated Stolie to come into camp ready to show he is healthy and ready to backup Elliott...he has been with the club the longest and his window is closing quickly...it's now or never for the kid and i know he knows it...his size 6-6 will fill a lot of net and moves pretty well for a big guy...which the Flyers need.

 

He needs to do just one thing come out and show it.

 

He comes in pays well and he forces Ron to do something with Neuvy....it is like he is the forgotten guy in the equation...i'm counting on him.

 

The wild card...

 

 

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44 minutes ago, vis said:

I wonder how easy it is to find a team willing to take a goaltender on loan from another organization.  In other words, I wonder if most AHL teams are more focused on playing/developing goaltenders for their affiliated NHL organizations and therefore less inclined to take on player in another NHL team's depth chart.  I get that the AHL isn't strictly a developmental league, so maybe there would be some interest.

 

I guess the question is who are you loaning? I doubt the Flyers would loan Hart - it's too risky to trust his development to an organization outside of their control. Less so with Stolarz, though he still has a chance to be something if his knees cooperate.

 

Would a team with weak goaltending depth accept a loan of a Neuvirth in a mentorship role? The Flyers don't care about his development, and the receiving team doesn't have to play him or pay him, so that might be an attractive option.

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Look like Neuvy has plans for this year....

 

 

 

...i have to say that is a bad ass mask...

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I agree with Vis that Stolie might be a sleeper here.  Elliott is another question mark on the health front.  Hexy says he will be OK....that might become TBD.  That would be a real wrench...yikes, Neuvy as starter???? 

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Honestly i expect the monkey wrench thrown in the whole plan is a motivated Stolie to come into camp ready to show he is healthy and ready to backup Elliott...he has been with the club the longest and his window is closing quickly...it's now or never for the kid and i know he knows it...his size 6-6 will fill a lot of net and moves pretty well for a big guy...which the Flyers need.

 

He needs to do just one thing come out and show it.

 

He comes in pays well and he forces Ron to do something with Neuvy....it is like he is the forgotten guy in the equation...i'm counting on him.

 

The wild card...

 

 

If he comes back well and shows he could be a viable backup, he may actually be the most easy to move. 

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5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

If he comes back well and shows he could be a viable backup, he may actually be the most easy to move. 

 

Yeah that too.

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16 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah that too.

I don't know. Just throwing out possibilities, which are mounting but none particularly ideal. 

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6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I don't know. Just throwing out possibilities, which are mounting but none particularly ideal. 

 

 

Or they could trade Lyon....hopefully one is gone....

 

tumblr_lxzah0hUxb1qeiexzo2_250.gif

 

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I agree with some of the pundits that Neuvy injury-proneness is a potential roster-buster.  If the third trainer is indeed a charm, fine, but that seems doubtful. I guess we have to ask if Elliott goes down, and Neuvy is unavailable, do we have faith in StolLyHart to provide coverage?  Bringing in Mzarek added no value.  I suspect a mid-season import this year would be no better.  I hope Elliott is at least fair to middlin and "sustainable," to use the buzz word. Otherwise we are relying on the inexperienced and injury-prone. 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Howie58 said:

I agree with some of the pundits that Neuvy injury-proneness is a potential roster-buster.  If the third trainer is indeed a charm, fine, but that seems doubtful. I guess we have to ask if Elliott goes down, and Neuvy is unavailable, do we have faith in StolLyHart to provide coverage?  Bringing in Mzarek added no value.  I suspect a mid-season import this year would be no better.  I hope Elliott is at least fair to middlin and "sustainable," to use the buzz word. Otherwise we are relying on the inexperienced and injury-prone. 

 

Hart is impossible. Hex won't rush him. He'll run the list of Elliott / Neuvy / Stolie / Lyon before Hart sees any ice time.

 

As far as those four go, it's really a toss up. Elliott is a back up at best; Stolie hasn't played since the prohibition; and Lyon's a riddle wrapped in an enigma. Neuvy is probably the best of the bunch, but we all know what happens when he decides he wants to give hockey an honest try.

 

Still, I have to hope we can field a pair out of those four somehow. Are they good enough to keep the ship afloat? That's probably wishful thinking, but at least our defense will be forced to play at a top level every game. That's development right?

Edited by elmatus

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34 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Neuvy is probably the best of the bunch, but we all know what happens when he decides he wants to give hockey brushing his teeth an honest try.

 

Fixed it. 

  • Haha 3

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On 7/24/2018 at 10:45 AM, Howie58 said:

Greetings:

 

I thought this was an interesting take on the goalie situation.  

 

Hidden Content

    Give reaction or reply to this topic to see the hidden content.

 

Some suggest three goalies in the AHL is workable.  This piece suggests Stolarz gets loaned to another AHL squad (different approach; never even thought about that).  I really can't see Neuvy on the team.  He has the third trainer in as many summers. Yikes...can we really believe the third will be a charm?  

 

Maybe we should do a two-stage poll--First Q: Will Neuvy be on the roster on opening day? Y/N.  If No, Options are Trade, Waiver, Injury in Camp, ICE Detention....who knows?

 

I have to wonder if Stolarz is actually better trade bait than Neuvy...yes, he has had injuries, but there is an NHL history and a pretty good AHL record.  Salary is certainly low.

 

Sorry for summer semi-blather...not much else going on.

 

Howie

 

Yes, I believe he'll probably be on the roster opening day.  I believe they'll likely carry three goalies in Lehigh Valley until they sort out what's what and who's ready / healthy to do what.

 

My suggestion is and remains to carry Neuvirth on the 23 man roster and either never play him or platoon him on and off the bench with Lyon until Stolarz has shown he is healthy and capable (I do think Stolarz is the better goalie if he is recovered).

 

The thinking here is for Neuvirth to spell Elliott in practices because apparently practices were so hard on both of them last year that Elliott actually commented once that playing every minute of every hard practice was more draining on him than starting every night for a month.

 

When your goalies are of Elliott's age and Neuvirth's fragile condition, this seems like something to address and I don't think practicing less is the answer.  But at this point in his career, does Elliott need to be standing there to take hundreds of shots while rookies run drills and Gudas works on not accidentally tearing his buddies' MCLs?  I think not.  Let the oft injured Neuvy take that load of his hands and put him to some good use.

 

This team rarely carries the full 23 man roster anyway.  Put that empty slot and Neuvy to use at the same time.  

 

Lyon is the backup to start the year, but I do think that eventually Stolarz will prove to be the better goalie as long as his knee has recovered.  He is just technically more accomplished and seemed a lot more relaxed and confident in the crease than Lyon did.  Lyon got better after his initially atrocious starts, but he never looked strong or comfortable.  Stolarz isn't amazing, but he's competent and had several very strong starts two years ago before his injuries ruined last year.  He didn't look like a goalie of the future, but he looked far more like a backup of the future. 

 

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5 hours ago, elmatus said:

As far as those four go, it's really a toss up. Elliott is a back up at best; Stolie hasn't played since the prohibition; and Lyon's a riddle wrapped in an enigma. Neuvy is probably the best of the bunch, but we all know what happens when he decides he wants to give hockey an honest try.

 

Still, I have to hope we can field a pair out of those four somehow. Are they good enough to keep the ship afloat? That's probably wishful thinking, but at least our defense will be forced to play at a top level every game. That's development right?

 

We will likely need all 5 at some point this season.

 

Elliott is better than you're giving him credit for, he's just too old to be playing every night for a month.

 

Still, I don't trust Lyon at all.  Neuvirth probably is the best goalie of the bunch, I agree.  But while I'm not sure what you mean about giving hockey an honest try, he can't be trusted to stay healthy.  Not his fault.  It just can't be done anymore.

 

Stolarz is the big question mark as far as I'm concerned.  I think he's the best option for a viable long term backup for the time being... but that's totally dependent on how he has recovered from his knee problem.  Others have recovered just fine from other knee injuries.  He may be fine too.  Time will tell. 

 

The long and short is that the goalie situation is the thing that I think will harm this team's chances of doing extremely well this season, but if Elliott can be used SANELY and remain remotely healthy, I'm confident in their ability to compete for the division.

 

I, like Hextall would like to see Hart get a year or more in the AHL (compete in the playoffs there) before being inserted into the position of backstopping a team that expects to compete with the league's best (which they should be at this point).  If anyone could handle it, I expect Hart's head is the one that can cope with the pressure from what I've read, but nevertheless, let's see if it comes to that first. 

 

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On 7/24/2018 at 1:36 PM, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Or they could trade Lyon....hopefully one is gone....

 

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Why do we care?  

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4 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Why do we care?  

 

Uh because you're a Flyer fan???

 

Because Trump says so.

 

Because North Korea will bomb us if you don't.

 

Ok i give...you don't have to care. Just don't bitch later about what happens then.

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7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Uh because you're a Flyer fan???

 

Because Trump says so.

 

Because North Korea will bomb us if you don't.

 

Ok i give...you don't have to care. Just don't bitch later about what happens then.

 

I'm just saying why doe we HAVE to trade anyone right away?  All three of the younger ones could become kind of important next year.  

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2 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I'm just saying why doe we HAVE to trade anyone right away?  All three of the younger ones could become kind of important next year.  

 

 

They don't have to anything right away and i never said they did...all they have to do is wait for Neuvy to play back to back games and he will be out the way on IR. Problem solved.

 

Or the Flyers could do like the Eagles did with Bradford wait for a goalie to go down with an injury or something/or suck...

 

...and ship a goalie of their choosing to the team needing a goalie.

 

Or send Hart to the ECHL and play Solie and Lyon in net for the Phantoms and go from there see what happens.

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6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Or the Flyers could do like the Eagles did with Bradford wait for a goalie to go down with an injury or something/or suck...

...and ship a goalie of their choosing to the team needing a goalie.

 

I say just carry all 5 until this happens.  If it doesn't I'm fine with having all 5.  There are ways around it and I'm way more concerned about Sanheim and Myers getting minutes and who's going to play 3C.

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1 minute ago, King Knut said:

 

I say just carry all 5 until this happens.  If it doesn't I'm fine with having all 5.  There are ways around it and I'm way more concerned about Sanheim and Myers getting minutes and who's going to play 3C.

 

Well all of them need to play and sending Hart to start in the ECHL isn't the end of the world. He is the only one who can be sent down without asking and them having to agree on it.

 

Stolie or Lyon would have to agree to be sent down.

 

But hey let's hold out hope that Hart wins the backup up job and then they just waive Neuvy to the AHL or someone plucks him.

 

The riskiest part is Lyon and Stolie will have to survive waivers first to be even sent down...and then is when someone could pluck one to backup somewhere else....so there may not even be a problem to begin with.

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  • Most Liked Posts in This Topic

    • 6
      Post
      Somehow, those tiny dots will cause Neuvirth to get injured.
    • 5
      Post
      Occam:   He was signed as a glorified stopgap, and we got that kind of performance. 
    • 4
      Post
      Lyon out 4 weeks with a LBI suffered before the last Islanders game. He's apparently been training with Neuvirth this offseason.
    • 4
      Post
      Trade him now. His value will never be higher. 😑
    • 3
      Post
      I agree to an extent. Maybe I'm giving up on him, but I see this more as a case of "sell high." There are lots of people who think like you do. I'd bet there are a couple NHL GMs among them.     Agreed on all points. I wanted Myers up to start the year, but I have no problem with the demotion. He's close. Getting big minutes to start the year in the AHL won't hurt him.
    • 3
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      We know how to kill goalies in Philly. Literally.

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