Flyers Goaltending Situation

[brelic]

28 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

He's still sporting a 3.33/.902 for the season (3.58/.901 in the A). Not sure how many other offers he'd get to beat out the Flyers.

 

I still kinda feel like they want a "seasoned vet" as the backup in a "mentor" position for Hart. OR mentioned Talbot in the shoutbox, and he's got an existing rapport with Hart, so that could be an option?

 

I'll see your 3.33/.902 and raise you a 3.36/.893.

 

I mean, sure... it's always nice to have your bestie as a teammate. But Talbot has gotten progressively worse over the last 6 seasons. I don't think he's an upgrade, at all. And I know, there are the intangibles like being a great mentor to our young goalie.

 

Still think we could either do better, or if not, just keep Stolarz. There's something to be said about two young guys battling together and figuring things out. I mean, that's a thing, right? At least it should be. Maybe it could be. Or maybe it could blow up. 

 

You know what? I honestly have no idea what Fletch is gonna do so I'll just stop talking.

 

[mojo1917]

I heard an interesting thought on Will Kane's show the other night.

insert your espn hate joke here {                                                                }

 

He was talking about how he values intangibles and chemistry and sometimes realizes he does this at the expense of talent.

where is this going ?

Does Anthony Stolarz have more talent than Cam Talbot ?  That's the question for me.

 

At this point, at the goalie position, I want talent, IDGAF about Talbot and Hart being buds. 

Stolarz is a good dude, well liked by all his teammates has said all the right things about playing along side/ behind Hart.

I don't think Talbot's intangibles make up for what I perceive is a deterioration of his talent. 

Stolarz isn't a douche and a room wrecker so .. I don't make a move where Talbot replaces Stolarz on the 23 man roster.

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, brelic said:

Picked up an interesting piece of information from Charlie O'Connor. 

 

Because of Stolarz's combination of age and NHL experience, he needs to play 16 more games this season in order for the Flyers to retain his rights as an RFA.

 

Otherwise, he becomes a UFA.

 

I can't imagine him playing in 16 games, so he will be a UFA. Not sure how much that changes things, but it hampers the Flyers position a bit.

 

 

Yeah we were all discussing this this morning in the shoutbox and talking about how a trade with the Oilers for Talbot made sense.

 

@ruxpin

 

@FD19372

 

@JR Ewing

 

Oilers need to get Sekera off IR and don't have caproom.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

51 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I heard an interesting thought on Will Kane's show the other night.

insert your espn hate joke here {                                                                }

 

He was talking about how he values intangibles and chemistry and sometimes realizes he does this at the expense of talent.

where is this going ?

Does Anthony Stolarz have more talent than Cam Talbot ?  That's the question for me.

 

At this point, at the goalie position, I want talent, IDGAF about Talbot and Hart being buds. 

Stolarz is a good dude, well liked by all his teammates has said all the right things about playing along side/ behind Hart.

I don't think Talbot's intangibles make up for what I perceive is a deterioration of his talent. 

Stolarz isn't a douche and a room wrecker so .. I don't make a move where Talbot replaces Stolarz on the 23 man roster.

 

Sure but if there was something coming back the Flyers way would you be more inclined to do so?

 

 

The Oilers need cap relief and as you pointed out the Flyers don't have to do anything so let me introduce you to my friend leverage...

[elmatus]

17 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

The Oilers need cap relief and as you pointed out the Flyers don't have to do anything so let me introduce you to my friend leverage...

 

Swap Simmonds for Puljujarvi to go with the Talbot thing? Sure, I'll listen.

 

Frankly, the Oilers are not exactly the best place to be digging around for unpolished gems. They have sucked and continue to suck for a variety of very good reasons. 

 

Someone like Puljujarvi or RNH might get me to consider bringing on Talbot. Simmonds has to move anyway, so make him part of the swap for one of those guys. There may be other options as well. Those are just the two I can think of right now.

 

Well and of course McDavid and Draisatl, but that'll never happen clearly.

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Swap Simmonds for Puljujarvi to go with the Talbot thing? Sure, I'll listen.

 

That was what was mentioned in the shoutbox.

 

Not Simmonds usless it was a several player trade.

 

They have about 1.1 mill in capspace they need to make a roster spot too which doesn't have to be part of this trade.

 

They could just waive Manning.

 

Sekera is a 5.5 mill cap hit.

 

So Talbot frees up 4.1 mill.

 

Jesse could be the sweetener.

 

Or the Oilers coyld find other options.

 

I don't think they want to move RNH.

 

So Talbot and Puljujarvi for Stolie?

 

Or even add.more too it.

 

 

[mkscrewy]

this was funny: 

 

i think he was joking tho.

 

[elmatus]

7 minutes ago, mkscrewy said:

this was funny: 

 

 

 

 

ROFL. That guy.

[radoran]

2 hours ago, brelic said:

But Talbot has gotten progressively worse over the last 6 seasons. I don't think he's an upgrade, at all. And I know, there are the intangibles like being a great mentor to our young goalie.

 

Yeah, I have him in FHL and, well, wish I didn't. Probably won't for much longer.

 

Of course, part of that is the absolute mess on the ice in front of him as well. As, indeed, it was for Stolarz earlier in the season.

 

[elmatus]

Just now, radoran said:

 

Yeah, I have him in FHL and, well, wish I didn't. Probably won't for much longer.

 

Of course, part of that is the absolute mess on the ice in front of him as well. As, indeed, it was for Stolarz earlier in the season.

 

 

I think at best Talbot ends up being pretty well the same as Elliott or Stolarz. I don't imagine he'll be any better than them. Of course, we don't really need a back up better than them. It would be nice, but it's far from necessary. 

 

I think if Edmonton can sweeten the pot, I'd be totally fine with swapping Stolarz for Talbot. The key point is that first part though. To me, this would be us trading from a position of strength, so they better show me something better than a straight swap.

[radoran]

6 minutes ago, elmatus said:

To me, this would be us trading from a position of strength, so they better show me something better than a straight swap.

 

Yeah, if they wanted Stolarz you need more than that. The fly in the ointment is Stolarz' possible UFA status. But if Edmonton got him, I could see them making sure he got his 16 games in to keep his RFA status. Especially if they give something up for him.

 

Simmonds and Stolarz for Puljujarvi, Talbot, and a 3rd?

 

Spitballing.

[elmatus]

6 minutes ago, radoran said:

Simmonds and Stolarz for Puljujarvi, Talbot, and a 3rd?

 

 

I'd consider that. It'll be hard to get better than Puljujarvi and a pick for Simmonds. Pul was a top 4 pick in his draft year after all. There's potential there. Let's see if maybe a change in scenery can bring it out.

 

I'm also fine if the goalie going back is Elliott. Whatever. 

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I heard an interesting thought on Will Kane's show the other night.

insert your espn hate joke here {                                                                }

 

He was talking about how he values intangibles and chemistry and sometimes realizes he does this at the expense of talent.

where is this going ?

Does Anthony Stolarz have more talent than Cam Talbot ?  That's the question for me.

 

At this point, at the goalie position, I want talent, IDGAF about Talbot and Hart being buds. 

Stolarz is a good dude, well liked by all his teammates has said all the right things about playing along side/ behind Hart.

I don't think Talbot's intangibles make up for what I perceive is a deterioration of his talent. 

Stolarz isn't a douche and a room wrecker so .. I don't make a move where Talbot replaces Stolarz on the 23 man roster.

I agree with your talent over chemistry position. 

 

I think time will tell, though, whether Talbot's talents have diminished. And I think finding out will require a change of scenery for Cam. 

 

Two thoughts on this, the lesser first.  He did well his first year in Edmonton, but when they got him I wasn't sold on him as a starter. I'm still not.  But I think he proved in New York that he can be a quality backup. That may be all we need near term. 

 

And maybe that part is wrong.  But my second thought is that he's playing behind a horrific team.  He seems to need some structure to be effective. And not only is that not existent in Edmonton, I think it's too late to help him if it suddenly miraculously appeared.  Clearly, the Flyers defense isn't great, but it's better than Edmonton's and will, in theory get better. I think (am hoping) that change by itself will help him. And then a better defense will help him even more. 

 

It's possible his skills really have diminished so I'm not saying for sure it's not. Just saying there may be other factors. 

 

 

[ruxpin]

3 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I'd consider that. It'll be hard to get better than Puljujarvi and a pick for Simmonds. Pul was a top 4 pick in his draft year after all. There's potential there. Let's see if maybe a change in scenery can bring it out.

 

I'm also fine if the goalie going back is Elliott. Whatever. 

I'd be extremely happy if it were Elliott.  But I think Edmonton has to clear cap space to get people off of IR, so Simmonds and Stolarz may be more appropriate salary coming back. I'm okay with that, too. If Elliott isn't included in that, both Talbot and Elliott still in the room could be awkward. 

[JR Ewing]

I am ready to turn a table over. Can you imagine a team

 

-Having the best player in the world.

-Being this bad.

-AND being up against the cap?

 

 

[elmatus]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

Clearly, the Flyers defense isn't great, but it's better than Edmonton's and will, in theory get better. I think (am hoping) that change by itself will help him. And then a better defense will help him even more. 

 

It's possible his skills really have diminished so I'm not saying for sure it's not. Just saying there may be other factors. 

 

I can agree with that. Honestly it's very hard to judge any goaltender playing out of EDM in the last decade plus. The team has been such a train wreck, it's just not a good yardstick for any goalie imo.

 

Granted, the Flyers are not a ton better as you say. We obviously hope -- and not without reason -- that our young guns coming up on the back end turn into a solid corps, but there's also the chance they simply won't and have been overvalued, or that our development system is barely any better than the Oilers. I don't like thinking about those options, but we'd be fools to dismiss the possibility.

 

Anyway, all to say Edmonton Talbot is likely the worst version of NHL Talbot. There's a chance he'd get better playing pretty much anywhere else just by virtue of playing pretty much anywhere else, and that includes here. He's clearly not going to become an all star, but we don't need him to be either.

 

Back to the original point: If Edmonton wants to overpay for the services of Stolarz or Elliott, I'm all ears. Talbot to me is pretty interchangeable with those two anyway. Show me your best offer.

[brelic]

5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Clearly, the Flyers defense isn't great, but it's better than Edmonton's and will, in theory get better.

 

Is it? We've allowed 190 goals, they've allowed 187. And that's *with* Carter Hart doing amazing things to erase the innumerable brain farts back there. 

 

Our defense is far from great. Not even close. 

 

It will definitely get better, but I'm in the camp that it's a multi-year process, not next season. The caveat is if Fletch gets a talented vet to help out and move things along quicker. 

 

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, brelic said:

Is it? We've allowed 190 goals, they've allowed 187. And that's *with* Carter Hart doing amazing things to erase the innumerable brain farts back there. 

 

Yeah sure for 18 of only 57 games though.

 

Of which he has won 11 of.

 

So even all that I take Flyers defense over the Oilers 11 times out of 10.

 

 

[ruxpin]

5 minutes ago, brelic said:

Our defense is far from great. Not even close. 

Lol I really hope I didn't give the impression that I thought it was.  I agree they're not great. Not by a long shot. 

[brelic]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah sure for 18 of only 57 games though.

 

Of which he has won 11 of.

 

So even all that I take Flyers defense over the Oilers 11 times out of 10.

 

 

 

Right. And we're *still* worse than Edmonton. 

 

Can you imagine how much worse it would be with any of the 6 other guys in goal?

 

I agree - I'll take the Flyers defense over theirs all day any day. But that's because of potential, of future promise. 

[FD19372]

3 hours ago, mkscrewy said:

this was funny: 

 

i think he was joking tho.

 

Yeah, we could use McDavid, too.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

And we're *still* worse than Edmonton.

 

Really??

 

I guess i have to disagree with that then.

 

Unless you just mean numbers wise.

[brelic]

25 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Really??

 

I guess i have to disagree with that then.

 

Unless you just mean numbers wise.

 

I don’t watch the Oilers, so numbers are all I have lol.

 

I mean, even with Hart, nothing has really changed. You yourself point out every other game how they look like the keystone cops in their own end.

 

The only difference is Hart. A 20 year old with a .924 save percentage, in comparison with a team save percentage of .899. 

 

But I’m not worried long term because it’s early days with our blueline, and by the time Provorov and Sanheim hit their mid-20s and enter their prime, there will be an uptick. 

[OccamsRazor]

 

I don't think Talbot is better than Elliott....just more reliable health wise.

 

Over the last 3 and a half years Talbot has played 227 games.

 

Elliott over that same time span has played 148. 

 

So yeah the ol saying can't make the club in the tub fits for Moose... 

[OccamsRazor]

25 minutes ago, brelic said:

I don’t watch the Oilers, so numbers are all I have lol.

 

Gotcha i can respect that.

 

I have watched a few and watched him closely since i had head the first whispers of Flyer interest in him.

 

I don't remember where i put it around here they were friends Hart and Talbot.

 

Not sure if it goes down Elliott isn't really any better than Talbot just less reliable and seems to be falling apart.

 

Had enough of the goalies saga this year. Maybe those can two can solidify the net for next year.

 

The best part is Elliott and Talbot are UFAs.

 

So if you see something in the audition you don't like Talbot you can walk away.

 

Explore another option.