Flyers Goaltending Situation

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well all of them need to play and sending Hart to start in the ECHL isn't the end of the world. He is the only one who can be sent down without asking and them having to agree on it.

 

Stolie or Lyon would have to agree to be sent down.

 

But hey let's hold out hope that Hart wins the backup up job and then they just waive Neuvy to the AHL or someone plucks him.

 

The riskiest part is Lyon and Stolie will have to survive waivers first to be even sent down...and then is when someone could pluck one to backup somewhere else....so there may not even be a problem to begin with.

 

Neuvy doesn't need to play.  

 

Let Stolarz and Lyon fight it out for the backup role and carry three goalies with the Flyers.  Wouldn't be the first time.  Neuvy sits in the press box except in cases of emergency and takes practice time until someone needs a goalie.  I really feel like this is the best solution.  Alternatively you can just carry three in the AHL and each guy gets 

[Howie58]

If Hart gets playing time in the ECHL...it is a professional start. I would hate to lose others on waivers...but these things happen.  Again, my big concern would be Elliott in terms of health or performance.  Yes, that frees up a slot.  But...we assume the youngins grow up fast or that Neuvy finds the third trainer is the charm.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, Howie58 said:

I would hate to lose others on waivers.

 

 

I would too so of the guys on the list that Stolie and Lyon are better than are in the last column.

 

And if another team claims them they have to stay on the NHL roster so i'm not sure how clear cut better they would be than those on the list.

 

 

The only one that concerns be is the Rangers and Stolie being a better option to Lundqvist than Georgiev and also growing up in Jersey a local product and they would love to snag a Flyer prospect for free.

 

Otherwise roll the dice i say.

[elmatus]

5 hours ago, King Knut said:

Elliott is better than you're giving him credit for, he's just too old to be playing every night for a month.

 

 

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree here. I do love your optimism, but I'm afraid I don't share it. In fact, I really don't think Elliott has ever been a solid starting goaltender. That's not to say he can't have a good game or two, but he looks like he's playing in cement most nights.

 

His only years with truly good records were in STL where he had a stacked d-corps, a highly defensive coach, and was splitting time equally with Halak. I do think he's a backup at best. He was a capable one back in the day, but now he's getting slower in his old age.

 

5 hours ago, King Knut said:

But while I'm not sure what you mean about giving hockey an honest try, he can't be trusted to stay healthy.  Not his fault.  It just can't be done anymore.

 

I just meant he seems to break something every time he laces up.

 

The unfortunate side effect of Neuvirth never being healthy for more than ~30 games in a season is it ruins any potential trade value he may have if he could actually play. I can't see any GM trading more than pucks for him at this point (with the obvious exception of Chiarelli).

 

Anyway, I do hope you're right about Elliott. As I've said before, I really hope I'm proven completely wrong. I would like nothing more. A casual look at last year's stats tells the tale of a team that had some great overall play pretty much everywhere but between the pipes. If we can get some upgraded play in net, and the vets don't take too much of a step back, we could be in for a treat.

[OccamsRazor]

The very average season of Brian Elliott

 

 

https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2018/7/25/17476480/2017-18-player-review-the-very-average-season-of-brian-elliott-philadelphia-flyers-goalie

 

Discuss.....

 

 @elmatus

[Howie58]

Occam:

 

He was signed as a glorified stopgap, and we got that kind of performance. 

[elmatus]

11 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

The very average season of Brian Elliott

 

 

https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2018/7/25/17476480/2017-18-player-review-the-very-average-season-of-brian-elliott-philadelphia-flyers-goalie

 

Discuss.....

 

 @elmatus

 

Seems about right, though the writer glosses over a number of important team details.

 

The Flyers were in the top five in suppressing shots against all last season (exactly 5th by the end). Our defensemen were better than our record shows from last year, especially our top pair (Sanheim had comparable numbers to Provo/Ghost in less ice time). Also, I somehow doubt our PK is going to get magically better this season. I think we can expect another mediocre at best run from Elliott.

 

He was 19th in EVSv% (>20GP) last year. That's despite having a very strong defensive pair in front of him the majority of the time. Comparables? Luongo was 9th. Hutton was 4th. Lehtonen was 12th. Niemi was 15th. He was better than Smith (25th). Of that bunch, only STL could say they have a defensive pairing in the Provo/Ghost/Sanheim(!) ballpark statistically. 

 

How far is too far back? His numbers are worse than both Mason and Neuvirth over the last handful of years.

 

He should be a back up. On most other teams he would be, or he wouldn't even be playing at all. We just happen to be in such a need right now. I can't blame Hexy for it though. He needed a stop gap and got one. It's not like he had tons of choices. Still, I'm realistic enough to understand that Elliott isn't going to be providing great support anytime soon. The team will have to continue winning by potting 3-4 goals a game. 

 

Side note: I'm really excited about Sanheim guys. Hopefully Hakstol can give him a suitable partner. MacDonald wasn't terrible next to him last year. It's not ideal of course, but I'd be fine with it to start.

 

Also, while I'm looking at these lists, I notice Hellebuyck faced the most shots on the PP last season by a considerable margin (385 or 6.7/GP). He ended with a 901sv% on the PK. What a beast.

 

In case you're curious, Elliott faced 154 (3.5/GP). He ended with a 812sv% on the PK.

 

More stuff: the Flyers were actually among the best at not taking penalties last year... 102 in total. Only Chicago (101) and Carolina (95) were better. That's pretty great actually. I'm surprised we haven't talked about this more. Not so long ago Gudas alone would have had more penalties than the whole team did.

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, elmatus said:

I think we can expect another mediocre at best run from Elliott.

 

Yes i'm afraid so.

 

Let's hope the addition of JVR can get the 2nd line going and add some more goals to take the burden off the 1st line.

 

Simple if you have the puck more it isn't going in your net.

 

I expect Ivan and Ghost to be even better this year.

 

The key is finding the right pair fits for the other defensive pairs.

 

I would love to find a fit and roll with it so the young guys like Sanheim and Hagg can settle down and just play their game.

 

However i know injuries can screw that up. I hope for more patience from Hak when it comes to juggling the lineup.

 

Winning out the gate goes a long ways.

[King Knut]

28 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yes i'm afraid so.

 

Let's hope the addition of JVR can get the 2nd line going and add some more goals to take the burden off the 1st line.

 

Simple if you have the puck more it isn't going in your net.

 

I expect Ivan and Ghost to be even better this year.

 

The key is finding the right pair fits for the other defensive pairs.

 

I would love to find a fit and roll with it so the young guys like Sanheim and Hagg can settle down and just play their game.

 

However i know injuries can screw that up. I hope for more patience from Hak when it comes to juggling the lineup.

 

Winning out the gate goes a long ways.

 

I'll be thrilled with an average season from Elliott.

 

We get average goaltending and average penalty killing last year for a full season and we likely win the division.  WHeels came off when we had to play Lyon and Mrazek.  

 

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, King Knut said:

WHeels came off when we had to play Lyon and Mrazek

 

Those two had much different results.

 

Lyon started rough and played better and better as he got more time.

 

 

Mrazek was the opposite he started hot and fizzled and made me cringe every time i watched him.

 

The truth is Lyon and Stolie may never make. I'm not so worried about that now with Hart and Sandstrom on the way soon.

[King Knut]

9 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Those two had much different results.

 

Lyon started rough and played better and better as he got more time.

 

 

Mrazek was the opposite he started hot and fizzled and made me cringe every time i watched him.

 

The truth is Lyon and Stolie may never make. I'm not so worried about that now with Hart and Sandstrom on the way soon.

 

Yeah, it was weird wasn't it?  Lyon got better (because he sure started atrociously... looked like he'd never played the position before) but strangely, Mrazek ended the season looking like he'd never played the position.

 

Still, Lyon never looked "good" in net.  Just better.  

 

pound for pound, I like Stolarz as a viable and stable backup.  He's the kind of guy who can step in and play fundamentally strong in net for a team when their #1 needs a spell.  Not flashy, not amazing.  But he makes the basic saves and the rebounds go where you want them to which is IMHO the most important thing from any goalie.  What sets the great ones apart is they can do that AND make the occasional impossible highlight reel saves.

 

Goalies that are just flat out embarrassing like Mrazek was are one thing, but I also flat out hate goalies who can making ridiculous amazing saves, but can't produce a controlled rebound on even the easiest saves.  It drives me crazy and it makes the team play like crap in their own end and it destroys the transition game.  

 

I will take a fundamentall strong, boring ass goalie whose rebounds go to his d-men over a flashy acrobat whose rebounds go all over the damn place every single time.  

 

[OccamsRazor]

26 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I like Stolarz as a viable and stable backup

 

 

I have to say i like Lyon, however if i had to chose i go with Stolarz...just like the way he played the short time i got to see him in orange and black. He takes up a lot of net and moves pretty well for a 6-6 goalie.

 

I just think he has the better tools to work with.

 

Lyon has to rely on reading the play and his quickness due to his lack of size and at times when he is deep in his net he seems to make himself small instead of trying to take up more net.

 

If i had to chose if he plays well come camp/preseason i would love to see Elliott/Stolie in net for the Flyers.

 

Lyon/Hart in net for the Phantoms and then whatever you can do with Neuvy do it.

[OccamsRazor]

Honestly you can take Calgary off the last column because they have Smith and Gibson in the NHL and just resigned Rittich to a one year deal so he will be stashed in the AHL.

 

 So can't seem them claiming Stolie or Lyon if waived.

 

 

However looking at the Oilers depth in net they could be a team who would snag a Stolie or Lyon maybe to backup Talbot.

 

 

They have Mikko Koskinen listed to backup Talbot but he hasn't played in the US since 2011-12 in the AHL so now sure how good he is even going to be so maybe they could snatch up a Stolie or Lyon and then just waive Koskinen not sure.

 

So the other teams are Montreal with Niemi behind Price. So maybe with them...never know with Bergevin as GM.

 

Wish they could just flip Neuvy to a team and issue resolved.

[elmatus]

33 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

However looking at the Oilers depth in net they could be a team who would snag a Stolie or Lyon maybe to backup Talbot.

 

 

What they really need is a proven veteran mentor like Brian Elliott. Sure! We'll take a pair of first round picks and call it a day. Thanks, Pete.

[OccamsRazor]

12 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

What they really need is a proven veteran mentor like Brian Elliott. Sure! We'll take a pair of first round picks and call it a day. Thanks, Pete.

 

I wish. Yet if 31 year old Talbot isn't that type then i don't know what Elliott could provide.

 

However with that said if they want him they can have him....

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

I have to say i like Lyon, however if i had to chose i go with Stolarz...just like the way he played the short time i got to see him in orange and black. He takes up a lot of net and moves pretty well for a 6-6 goalie.

 

I just think he has the better tools to work with.

 

Lyon has to rely on reading the play and his quickness due to his lack of size and at times when he is deep in his net he seems to make himself small instead of trying to take up more net.

 

If i had to chose if he plays well come camp/preseason i would love to see Elliott/Stolie in net for the Flyers.

 

Lyon/Hart in net for the Phantoms and then whatever you can do with Neuvy do it.

 

I agree with all of this 100%.  

 

And not for nuthin', but Stolie came in and was just kind of good.  Nothing amazing, just good.  Lyon came in and was a head case and had to go back to LV to chill out before looking decent again.  

 

It's not to say he can't beat it, but the guy clearly had nerves and got in his own head quite a bit there.  Just one more hurdle he'll have to best in order to be an NHL goalie that Stolie didn't appear to have to cope with.

 

Of course a year makes a great difference and Stolie now has to hurdle coming back from a serious injury and a full year out of action.  That's not nothing.  But with any luck he can as you and I both hope, bounce back and rightfully claim the backup role that should have been his (and on this team that should mean 33-38 games at least.  

 

One of the reasons I like keeping Neuvy on the big club's roster is that he is actually good when he's healthy, so if you need rotate him into things every once in a while, keep the other guys fresh and hopefully make him look good for a deadline deal.

 

... that and the practice thing.  DId I mention the practice thing?  See I have this idea about the practice thing.  I don't talk about it much, so I should really explain it sometime. 

[Howie58]

Well, we can be certain this topic won't go away anytime soon.  Hexy may be right that having too many goalies might be better than too few....particularly with this crew.  

 

About the only thing we can say is that "proving" a goalie needs a fairly high n, possibly over two seasons.  That tells me the brass will need to make a decision on the youngins sooner rather than later.  A game here and there won't tell us much.  On that score, a "healthy" Elliott-Neuvirth duo may be effective...but puts off the day of reckoning long-term.  

[ruxpin]

6 hours ago, King Knut said:

that and the practice thing.  DId I mention the practice thing?  See I have this idea about the practice thing.  I don't talk about it much, so I should really explain it sometime

 

Weez talkstin prack-tiss.  PRACK-tiss.  Not a..not a game.  Not a game.  Prack-tiss.  Weez talkstin PRACK-TISS.

[OccamsRazor]

A point of view on the goalies....

 

https://www.flyersnation.net/philadelphia-flyers-2018-19-goaltending-a-blueprint/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

Brian Elliott, Michal Neuvirth, Alex Lyon, Anthony Stolarz, and Carter Hart will be looking to man the crease in either Philadelphia or Lehigh Valley. Four netminder positions need filling and five individuals capable of doing so. This situation, of course, means there will be an odd man out. Yes, the fifth man could serve as a third Phantoms goalie or play in the ECHL. However, the best option would be to trade a goalie, and Neuvirth is the one to send packing. Though there are times he shines in net, he never stays healthy enough to do so consistently. At this point, Neuvirth merely is in the way one of the younger goalies getting the necessary experience. Now, the Flyers can’t expect a significant return 30-year-old netminder. Still, there are teams in need of assistance in net, and he could fetch a mid-to-late round draft pick.

 

With Neuvirth out of the picture, Philadelphia will have the necessary four goalies to fill each spot. However, questions about what role each will have remains and that all depends on the readiness of one individual.

 

Carter Hart is the Flyers goalie of the future and most-hyped prospect. Remarkably, there is chatter that he could be ready to play in the NHL this season. If that is the case, you can expect him and Elliott to share the crease. It is essential that this be a 1A/1B scenario, with each netminder getting close to the same number of starts. Once Hart demonstrates he can handle more playing time, the Flyers can transition Elliott into more of a backup. However, if Dave Hakstol feels Hart is only ready enough to assume a backup role in Philadelphia, he should play in Lehigh Valley as the team’s starter.

 

Let’s first approach the goalie situation assuming that Hart needs a year in the AHL. That will make Elliott the number-one netminder in Philadelphia with both Lyon and Stolarz as backup options. The best choice at this point appears to be Lyon. His sample size at the NHL-level is small but receiving more starts at that level could be what he needs. Ron Hextall will be able to see what he has in Lyon, hoping he can serve as a reliable backup to Hart in the future. At this point, Stolarz appears to be more of an AHL placeholder. I don’t see Hextall interested in holding onto Stolarz past this season, making the Phantoms backup goalie a proper role.

 

Now, let’s assume Hart wows the Flyers and makes the opening night roster. First, this would be fantastic news for Philadelphia, placing them ahead of schedule in regards to the overarching plan. As mentioned, Hart and Elliott would likely make up a tandem, sharing starts. Even if Hart proves he’s ready for the NHL, the Flyers aren’t going to throw him to the sharks. Placing him in a 1A/1B role provides more time to learn and develop. After the 2018-19, Hart would take over the reigns as the starting goalie with Elliott becoming an unrestricted free agent. Of course, this would leave Lyon and Stolarz to play in the AHL, with Lyon likely taking on the role of starter.

 

Uncertainty regarding the Flyers and goaltending is inescapable. Past knowing what Philadelphia has in Elliott and Neuvirth, which is nothing exciting, there are tons of unknowns. Still, even with those unknowns, there is plenty to instill excitement throughout the organization and fanbase. It will be in best interest of the franchise to provide Hart and Lyon every opportunity to not only grow but demonstrate their worth as well. It will be interesting to see how the goalie situation in Philadephia unfolds.

 

 

Enjoy....discuss...

[elmatus]

44 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

A point of view on the goalies....

 

https://www.flyersnation.net/philadelphia-flyers-2018-19-goaltending-a-blueprint/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

Brian Elliott, Michal Neuvirth, Alex Lyon, Anthony Stolarz, and Carter Hart will be looking to man the crease in either Philadelphia or Lehigh Valley. Four netminder positions need filling and five individuals capable of doing so. This situation, of course, means there will be an odd man out. Yes, the fifth man could serve as a third Phantoms goalie or play in the ECHL. However, the best option would be to trade a goalie, and Neuvirth is the one to send packing. Though there are times he shines in net, he never stays healthy enough to do so consistently. At this point, Neuvirth merely is in the way one of the younger goalies getting the necessary experience. Now, the Flyers can’t expect a significant return 30-year-old netminder. Still, there are teams in need of assistance in net, and he could fetch a mid-to-late round draft pick.

 

With Neuvirth out of the picture, Philadelphia will have the necessary four goalies to fill each spot. However, questions about what role each will have remains and that all depends on the readiness of one individual.

 

Carter Hart is the Flyers goalie of the future and most-hyped prospect. Remarkably, there is chatter that he could be ready to play in the NHL this season. If that is the case, you can expect him and Elliott to share the crease. It is essential that this be a 1A/1B scenario, with each netminder getting close to the same number of starts. Once Hart demonstrates he can handle more playing time, the Flyers can transition Elliott into more of a backup. However, if Dave Hakstol feels Hart is only ready enough to assume a backup role in Philadelphia, he should play in Lehigh Valley as the team’s starter.

 

Let’s first approach the goalie situation assuming that Hart needs a year in the AHL. That will make Elliott the number-one netminder in Philadelphia with both Lyon and Stolarz as backup options. The best choice at this point appears to be Lyon. His sample size at the NHL-level is small but receiving more starts at that level could be what he needs. Ron Hextall will be able to see what he has in Lyon, hoping he can serve as a reliable backup to Hart in the future. At this point, Stolarz appears to be more of an AHL placeholder. I don’t see Hextall interested in holding onto Stolarz past this season, making the Phantoms backup goalie a proper role.

 

Now, let’s assume Hart wows the Flyers and makes the opening night roster. First, this would be fantastic news for Philadelphia, placing them ahead of schedule in regards to the overarching plan. As mentioned, Hart and Elliott would likely make up a tandem, sharing starts. Even if Hart proves he’s ready for the NHL, the Flyers aren’t going to throw him to the sharks. Placing him in a 1A/1B role provides more time to learn and develop. After the 2018-19, Hart would take over the reigns as the starting goalie with Elliott becoming an unrestricted free agent. Of course, this would leave Lyon and Stolarz to play in the AHL, with Lyon likely taking on the role of starter.

 

Uncertainty regarding the Flyers and goaltending is inescapable. Past knowing what Philadelphia has in Elliott and Neuvirth, which is nothing exciting, there are tons of unknowns. Still, even with those unknowns, there is plenty to instill excitement throughout the organization and fanbase. It will be in best interest of the franchise to provide Hart and Lyon every opportunity to not only grow but demonstrate their worth as well. It will be interesting to see how the goalie situation in Philadephia unfolds.

 

 

Enjoy....discuss...

 

I think this is pretty much what we’ve been saying all along. This guy must be a forum lurker.

[mojo1917]

where is this "chatter" about Hart being ready ?

who is "chattering" ?

I didn't hear no "chatter" about Hart being ready...

No one I trust has been "chattering" about that either. 

 

person writing that post  is full of "chatter".

 

 

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

where is this "chatter" about Hart being ready ?

who is "chattering" ?

I didn't hear no "chatter" about Hart being ready...

No one I trust has been "chattering" about that either. 

 

person writing that post  is full of "chatter".

 

 

 

Hextall will not play Hart this year until either he or Elliott/Neuvy/Stolarz/Lyon have made it impossible not to.

[hockeyguy96]

Our NHL tandem is on the weaker side forsure in terms of star power in net we lack yes but when Elliott isnt hurt he can be pretty good and on a roll and Neuvy had solid numbers in net to be honest for his sake but we still made the playoffs with them so still can get us there and have been a decent stop gap situation for us until Hart is ready which i will say does look good so i think in the end we will be alright and solid for a long time in the future but right now we just gotta roll with it 

[radoran]

On 7/25/2018 at 8:06 PM, elmatus said:

His only years with truly good records were in STL where he had a stacked d-corps, a highly defensive coach, and was splitting time equally with Halak. I do think he's a backup at best. He was a capable one back in the day, but now he's getting slower in his old age.

 

On 7/25/2018 at 11:47 PM, Howie58 said:

Occam:

 

He was signed as a glorified stopgap, and we got that kind of performance.  

 

Say, where did I see this guy?
In 'Binghamton Rochester'?
Or 'The Saint Louis Blues New York Rangers'?
Maybe 'The Senators Sabres'?
Or 'The Conference Finals'?

And everybody say, "Oh, he's all right?"
And everybody say, "What's he like?"
And everybody say, "He sure look funny"
That's Brian Elliott Martin Biron, honey!

With sincere apologies

 

 

 

[flyercanuck]

12 hours ago, radoran said:

 

 

Say, where did I see this guy?
In 'Binghamton Rochester'?
Or 'The Saint Louis Blues New York Rangers'?
Maybe 'The Senators Sabres'?
Or 'The Conference Finals'?

And everybody say, "Oh, he's all right?"
And everybody say, "What's he like?"
And everybody say, "He sure look funny"
That's Brian Elliott Martin Biron, honey!

With sincere apologies

 

 

 

 

That was a good one...I knew where you were going with it from the first sentence. Well done sir!