Flyers Goaltending Situation

[brelic]

I was thinking about goali scenarios this morning, and then I realized something.

 

i don’t think there’s any way Hart can be on the opening night roster. 

 

Say Neuvirth is injured. 

 

That means Elliott plus one “emergency” goalie.  

 

If they keep Stolarz with Elliott, Hart can be sent to the minors without going through waivers. When Neuvirth returns, Stolarz can be sent back without going through waivers as well because he was here on an emergency basis.

 

If they keep Hart as the emergency goalie, Stolarz has to clear waivers before being reassigned to LHV. Does Hextall believe he’d clear? I think there’s a good chance someone would pluck him off waivers. 

 

Am I missing something? If that’s the case, then that kinda sucks. It would be nice for Hart to have a game or two if he’s truly earned it. 

 

 

 

 

[flyercanuck]

43 minutes ago, brelic said:

I was thinking about goali scenarios this morning, and then I realized something.

 

i don’t think there’s any way Hart can be on the opening night roster. 

 

Say Neuvirth is injured. 

 

That means Elliott plus one “emergency” goalie.  

 

If they keep Stolarz with Elliott, Hart can be sent to the minors without going through waivers. When Neuvirth returns, Stolarz can be sent back without going through waivers as well because he was here on an emergency basis.

 

If they keep Hart as the emergency goalie, Stolarz has to clear waivers before being reassigned to LHV. Does Hextall believe he’d clear? I think there’s a good chance someone would pluck him off waivers. 

 

Am I missing something? If that’s the case, then that kinda sucks. It would be nice for Hart to have a game or two if he’s truly earned it. 

 

 

 

 

 

I know you're saying keep Hart for a couple of games, and that'd be fine. I really don't see Stolarz being anything more than an NHL backup...maybe I'm wrong. But I don't want Hart being NHL backup long term. I'd rather he played in the A.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

That means Elliott plus one “emergency” goalie.  

 

 

I don't think you can just do that. There has to be no one left to play for that to apply.

 

Hart can play as well as Stolie...so no need for emergency.

 

And Hart can't be claimed when put on waivers he is exempt. Stolie isn't he will have to be waived to be sent down.

 

Stolie can be waived and still stay up and backup Elliott he will have to go back through waivers after 30 days or playing in 10 games.

 

However you risk Stolie being claimed like Alt, Porter and Martel have been snagged.

 

So what i would do honestly is sent Hart down keep Stolie up to backup Elliott and sign a goalie to an AHL contract to back up Hart.

 

When and if Neuvy is healthy i would waive Neuvy.

 

Then he can tandem with Hart....sorry thems the breaks...i am done with him.

 

Now when Lyon is healthy well then we would have to decide what to do with him and Stolie but that will be for a month or so. 

 

This would solve the problem for now.

[AJgoal]

21 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

I don't think you can just do that. There has to be no one left to play for that to apply.

 

Hart can play as well as Stolie...so no need for emergency.

 

And Hart can't be claimed when put on waivers he is exempt. Stolie isn't he will have to be waived to be sent down.

 

Stolie can be waived and still stay up and backup Elliott he will have to go back through waivers after 30 days or playing in 10 games.

 

However you risk Stolie being claimed like Alt, Porter and Martel have been snagged.

 

So what i would do honestly is sent Hart down keep Stolie up to backup Elliott and sign a goalie to an AHL contract to back up Hart.

 

When and if Neuvy is healthy i would waive Neuvy.

 

Then he can tandem with Hart....sorry thems the breaks...i am done with him.

 

Now when Lyon is healthy well then we would have to decide what to do with him and Stolie but that will be for a month or so. 

 

This would solve the problem for now.

 

I think what @brelic was saying is that in this instance, Stolarz is your emergency goalie, and wouldn't be subject to waivers. Both Lyon and Neuvirth are injured, so the Flyers only have one left, meeting the conditions for an emergency recall. However, I think the issue that would come in is that your emergency replacement has already been waived if it's any other point in the season, which is why he can come up and then go down again without passing through. Since Stolarz has yet to be waived, I think he would still be subject to them when one of the other two is healthy. Where's @aziz when you need him?

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Since Stolarz has yet to be waived

 

Yes and that is what i was getting at sort of i think. I still they he would require waivers to be sent down first otherwise hence being an emergency goalie if he still up he wouldn't an emergency he is just the backup. And if you send him down he will get claimed i'm pretty sure of it.

 

It is why i would sign a guy to back Hart up in the AHL and just keep Stolie up and when Lyon or Neuvy is ready then they would have a hard decision to make and if it is Neuvy first i would waive him and pray someone claims him.

 

Then the harder problem to deal with would be when Lyon is ready who to keep and who to waive or try and even trade maybe...because i don't think either will survive waivers.

[brelic]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I know you're saying keep Hart for a couple of games, and that'd be fine. I really don't see Stolarz being anything more than an NHL backup...maybe I'm wrong. But I don't want Hart being NHL backup long term. I'd rather he played in the A.

 

Yeah, exactly. I was just saying if Hart has truly earned it, serving as backup for a week or so wouldn’t be terrible. But yes, long term I’d prefer he plays in the AHL until he’s a bit more experienced.

[brelic]

@AJgoal @OccamsRazor

 

I see what you’re saying. I looked it up and it seems to be the case.

 

Stolarz would have to clear first, before he could be considered an emergency callup.

 

Ron’s gonna have some tough choices if Neuvy isn’t ready to go for opening night roster.

[OccamsRazor]

35 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Ron’s gonna have some tough choices if Neuvy isn’t ready to go for opening night roster.

 

 

See i don't see it that way.

 

Neuvy is gone after this year.

 

Lyon is signed for this year and next.

 

Stolie and Elliott are only signed for this year too.

 

So after trying to give Neuvy a chance after changing trainer or whatever...here we are again...he is hurt...if i am waiving a goaltender it is going to be Neuvy....i don't see anyone claiming a 30 year old journeyman backup up goalie who can't stay healthy.

 

However if you waive Stolarz who also is coming off an injury i could maybe see someone snagging him he is only 24 and could be a decent gamble as a backup in the NHL ....maybe....so i am going with the safe waiver....Neuvy.

 

Elliott and Stolie can hold the fort down till Lyon gets healthy and then well you have to make a decision then...

[ruxpin]

I cannot imagine why anyone would claim Stolarz.  Based on WHAT?

 

He'll top out as a backup and not a particularly good one.  Average.  But I don't see anyone claiming that off waivers.  Not when he's just getting back from the injury he's had.  Someone would have to keep him on the NHL roster for 30 days, too, before sending him through waivers themselves.

 

I agree with those who want to waive Neurvirth.  Yeah, they gave him one more chance, but to me it's like looking at the red hot burner after you've already burnt yourself 9 times and going, "this time it'll be different!"   The guy couldn't boil an egg without 4 weeks on LTR.  Waive him.  It may have to wait until he's healthy, but once you hit that 4 minute window, waive his ass.

 

So, send Hart to Lehigh.

Elliott is your starter and Stolie your backup until Lyon is healthy.   Send one of them down, the other is your backup.

Whenever that 4 minute window hits, waive Neuvirth or trade him for rancid soup.

 

When Elliott gets hurt and/or proves ineffective (either may happen before I finish typing this!) bring up Hart and he's the Flyer starter way before the Flyers wanted him to be.  If Elliott is hurt, Stolie/Lyon is your backup.    If Elliott was just ineffective, he's the backup and waive the second of Stolie/Lyon OR trade one.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

I cannot imagine why anyone would claim Stolarz.  Based on WHAT?

 

He'll top out as a backup and not a particularly good one.  Average.  But I don't see anyone claiming that off waivers.  Not when he's just getting back from the injury he's had.  Someone would have to keep him on the NHL roster for 30 days, too, before sending him through waivers themselves.

 

I agree with those who want to waive Neurvirth.  Yeah, they gave him one more chance, but to me it's like looking at the red hot burner after you've already burnt yourself 9 times and going, "this time it'll be different!"   The guy couldn't boil an egg without 4 weeks on LTR.  Waive him.  It may have to wait until he's healthy, but once you hit that 4 minute window, waive his ass.

 

So, send Hart to Lehigh.

Elliott is your starter and Stolie your backup until Lyon is healthy.   Send one of them down, the other is your backup.

Whenever that 4 minute window hits, waive Neuvirth or trade him for rancid soup.

 

When Elliott gets hurt and/or proves ineffective (either may happen before I finish typing this!) bring up Hart and he's the Flyer starter way before the Flyers wanted him to be.  If Elliott is hurt, Stolie/Lyon is your backup.    If Elliott was just ineffective, he's the backup and waive the second of Stolie/Lyon OR trade one.

 

He is better than Lehner just off the top of my head.

[ruxpin]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

 

He is better than Lehner just off the top of my head.

You and I are better than Lehner. 

 

But decent point.  I still don't think he's going anywhere, but maybe if they think it's likely, it's time to swing a trade. 

[aziz]

5 hours ago, AJgoal said:

Where's @aziz when you need him?

 

 

huh?  what?  

 

(good lord the available emojis have gotten crazy here)

[OccamsRazor]

55 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

You and I are better than Lehner. 

 

True.

 

So here is a list i posted on this thread...i think there are a few on here he could be better than or worth a try on at this age...

 

 

...the possibly worse list for sure. I could see the Rangers take him.

 

Stolie is better than Mazanec i think and Georgiev will be in the minors.

 

In fact i think he can be better than the whole last row above. 

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, aziz said:

 

 

huh?  what?  

 

(good lord the available emojis have gotten crazy here)

 

Stolie has to pass through waivers first before he can be used as an emergency goalie was the question. Not sure if you know we were trying to figure that out.

[brelic]

@ruxpin @OccamsRazor

 

You guys make great points, and I hadn’t considered the option of just waiving Neuvy when he’s healthy. I guess the reason is that it’s not something I thought Ron would do. 

 

But you’ve convinced me that maybe he would. Maybe he’s at the end of his tolerance with this injury nonsense. 

 

I’d be happy with Stolarz as backup. I realize his sample size is pretty small but you gotta start somewhere. They need a plan for the next 2-3 years and those plans don’t involve Elliott and Neuvirth. 

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, brelic said:

I guess the reason is that it’s not something I thought Ron would do.

 

He's waived Mcdud so i'm holding out hope.

 

And i'm not saying what Stolarz IS i'm not so sure we know yet...i just don't want to waive a 2nd round pick and someone pluck him and they have nothing to show for it like they did with Martel (even though he was just a undrafted free agent).

 

So someone has to go and it is the guy i just can't trust to be around and stay healthy...nothing personal just business.

 

So he would be waived...

[brelic]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aziz]

13 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Stolie has to pass through waivers first before he can be used as an emergency goalie was the question. Not sure if you know we were trying to figure that out.

 

ah.  he would not have to clear to be brought up (as recall waivers aren't a thing anymore).  as I understand it, if he were recalled under emergency circumstances, he also wouldn't need to clear to be sent down (so long as he was returned as soon as the emergency was over).  the requirement for emergency recall is only that the parent club be reduced below the required minimum available players at a given position (so, less than 2 goalies available), and teams are not "forced" to recall specific players or avoid specific movement restrictions if available.  so, the fact that the flyers have a waiver-exempt goalie on the farm is not relevant, they can recall whoever they want, sidestepping waivers as needed.

 

again, as i understand it.

[brelic]

2 hours ago, aziz said:

 

ah.  he would not have to clear to be brought up (as recall waivers aren't a thing anymore).  as I understand it, if he were recalled under emergency circumstances, he also wouldn't need to clear to be sent down (so long as he was returned as soon as the emergency was over).  the requirement for emergency recall is only that the parent club be reduced below the required minimum available players at a given position (so, less than 2 goalies available), and teams are not "forced" to recall specific players or avoid specific movement restrictions if available.  so, the fact that the flyers have a waiver-exempt goalie on the farm is not relevant, they can recall whoever they want, sidestepping waivers as needed.

 

again, as i understand it.

 

That's how we understood it too, though we have the added complexity of Stolarz not actually having been waived yet. So, in this scenario he basically makes the Flyers roster while Neuvirth is on LTIR. Since Stolarz was never waived and Neuvirth is not on the active roster, Stolarz is not considered an emergency recall the way I understand it.

 

Once Neuvirth is reactivated, they will need to waive/reassign one of their three goalies, who are all subject to waivers. 

 

If Hart backups Elliott instead, Stolarz will have to go through waivers now while Hart will be exempt when/if sent back to LHV. 

 

[aziz]

12 minutes ago, brelic said:

Since Stolarz was never waived and Neuvirth is not on the active roster, Stolarz is not considered an emergency recall the way I understand it.

 

the timing will be a thing.  if placing neuvirth on LTIR left the flyers even momentarily with 1 goalie on the NHL roster, stolarz could be brought up under emergency conditions and could then be returned to the farm when neuvirth was reactivated, waiver-free.  if stolarz was already on the NHL roster when neuvirth was IR'd (and he was, if I'm following the conversation), so the flyers had at least 2 goalies at that moment...then you are right, he'll need to clear when sent down after neuvirth returns, as he wasn't recalled at all, emergency or otherwise.  it would just be a normal course demotion.

[brelic]

5 minutes ago, aziz said:

 

the timing will be a thing.  if placing neuvirth on LTIR left the flyers even momentarily with 1 goalie on the NHL roster, stolarz could be brought up under emergency conditions and could then be returned to the farm when neuvirth was reactivated, waiver-free.  if stolarz was already on the NHL roster when neuvirth was IR'd (and he was, if I'm following the conversation), so the flyers had at least 2 goalies at that moment...then you are right, he'll need to clear when sent down after neuvirth returns, as he wasn't recalled at all, emergency or otherwise.  it would just be a normal course demotion.

 

Yes, the timing is everything. And since the teams have yet to submit their final rosters, no one would be considered an emergency recall at this point. There is no roster.

 

So the only real question is *when* Stolarz goes through waivers. Now (in the case of a healthy Neuvirth for opening night) or later (in the case of an LTIR'd Neuvirth for opening night).

 

[aziz]

2 hours ago, brelic said:

And since the teams have yet to submit their final rosters, no one would be considered an emergency recall at this point. There is no roster.

 

right right, its still camp, isn't it?  yeah, stolarz is going to have to get through waivers before he goes to the phantoms, whenever he ends up being sent down.  the standard argument there is you clear him more or less now, when the rest of the league is trying to trim rosters and send their own people down, let him get lost in the noise.  as opposed to 2 weeks into the season when only a few dudes are on the wire, and maybe a few goalies around the league have been knocked out for a while.

[brelic]

2 minutes ago, aziz said:

 

right right, its still camp, isn't it?  yeah, stolarz is going to have to get through waivers before he goes to the phantoms, whenever he ends up being sent down.  the standard argument there is you clear him more or less now, when the rest of the league is trying to trim rosters and send their own people down, let him get lost in the noise.  as opposed to 2 weeks into the season when only a few dudes are on the wire, and maybe a few goalies around the league have been knocked out for a while.

 

Yes, good point. 

 

Also, anyone getting claimed now has to be on the claiming team's NHL roster for 10 games or 30 days, and then must clear again if being reassigned. 

 

Does that apply for in-season waiver claims (the 10 game / 30 day policy)? If not, then that is a big factor. 

 

[OccamsRazor]

5 hours ago, aziz said:

he would not have to clear to be brought up (as recall waivers aren't a thing anymore). 

 

 

Yes. That i understand it went out with the last CBA.

 

However the big issue is he needs to be waived to be sent down.

 

Which i don't think he makes it through. A team like the Rangers will snag him.

[OccamsRazor]

37 minutes ago, aziz said:

let him get lost in the noise.

 

I don't think this will happen.

 

I think team will be looking at a 24 6-6 goalie who has yet been given much time to see if he can help in the NHL.

 

There are at least 3 or 4 teams (Rangers and Canadiens off the top of my head)  i think may take a chance on a guy like him to be a backup because he MAY not say he IS an upgrade to their current backup situation....he was a 2nd round draft...i just would hate to lose him for nothing. I mean it would cost THEM nothing to select him and if he sucks and isn't any good then they waive him.

 

Yet the Flyers could be helping an opponent after investing the time and resources developing him and i think he is at the cusp of doing so.

 

In fact regardless of Neuvy being hurt i would like Stolie to fill the backup position behind Elliott anyways.

 

So that is the whole concern. I am done with Neuvy and ready to move on from the guy. Now is the time i think. I wish him well.

 

And if i am wrong and Stolie sucks i think you could still bring Neuvy back up if you waive and try him out and then waive Stolie.

 

You waive Stolie and you can't put the genie back in the bottle if someone claims him like Tampa took Martel.