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RonJeremy

Kevin Hayes and Tom Wilson just got 5 million, Simmonds has to be looking for 7 million

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Because JVR has a reasonable contract, I believe Simmonds will want around 7 million and for more than 5 years. I love Simmonds,  and there are few power forwards left in the league, he can get us a great return. He is losing PP time to Patrick and will be on the third line, usually when someone is in a contract year,  they put up their best numbers.He can be a huge trading chip at the deadline if he puts up good numbers,  teams always overpay for a push to the Cup. If he has a bad year , then his value drops.If we get a great offer, you do it. If Simmonds wants to sign for a reasonable term and contract, then you think about it.

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1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

I don't think they make a deadline trade (unless it's for a goalie) if the team is in contention at all.  

Remember, this team was battling for first place at the deadline last year.  

 

We like to talk about how they're still 2-3 years away, but most people would have given them the edge if they'd faced the Capitals in the first round instead of the Penguins and the capitals won the damn cup.

 

I'm not saying I expect them to compete for a cup this year, but I am saying that stranger things have happened (see 2010) and I just don't see them trading a valuable asset at the deadline unless it's for something they really really need at the deadline.  

 

Well if Radko hadn't tore the #1 centers MCL and then played with his head up his ass that last game then....

 

...aaaaw forget it. No point water under the bridge I guess...

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well if Radko hadn't tore the #1 centers MCL and then played with his head up his ass that last game then....

 

...aaaaw forget it. No point water under the bridge I guess...

 

I was with you at the time about the practice injury, but apparently tearing his MCL made Couturier better!    

 

Of course Radko was pretty damn horrible that game and coughed up a big one.  Still (and this is no excuse) Malkin not getting called for Tripping Couturier and that leading to a goal really seemed to just shock the hell out of the Flyers.  They never recovered from it.  You could see them being utterly dumbstruck by the lack of a call in the moment, and the game started again and they were still just dumbstruck.  That's when game 6 fell apart.  Yes, the ref screwed up, or was paid off or whatever, but I'm not saying that's enough of a reason to blow it like that.  The team needed to respond.  I'm just saying to my eyes, failing to respond to that ridiculous non call was what did them in and when the game was lost.  

 

They were playing like crap a lot of that series and the lack of a healthy goalie didn't make anything any better.  The Penguins had their number all year, even though there were a few games the Flyers should have won against them.  The Capitals however... the Flyers had their number all year.  I think most would have laid odds on the Flyers.  

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1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

Because JVR has a reasonable contract, I believe Simmonds will want around 7 million and for more than 5 years. I love Simmonds,  and there are few power forwards left in the league, he can get us a great return. He is losing PP time to Patrick and will be on the third line, usually when someone is in a contract year,  they put up their best numbers.He can be a huge trading chip at the deadline if he puts up good numbers,  teams always overpay for a push to the Cup. If he has a bad year , then his value drops.If we get a great offer, you do it. If Simmonds wants to sign for a reasonable term and contract, then you think about it.

 

He was losing his PP time to Patrick because he was injured and because they still had Filppula. 

This year, Patrick will likely have to center the second unit and that will likely put Simmer back on the top unit if he's healthy.

 

I think you pull the trigger if you get a great offer in the off season.  Mid season, or at the deadline, you only pull the trigger if you're out of it and you know it or if you're close, but several  key guys are injured so you know you're not going far even if you make the playoffs.  

 

Trading Simmonds will SCREW UP THIS TEAM and SCREW UP THIS LOCKER ROOM.  If you do that in the regular season, you can kiss a decent year thereafter goodbye.  

 

Personally I think they try to extend him for 5 years now before he has a chance at being great or crappy in his return.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

Solid point. I think position does matter of course. We needed a 2LW, whereas we have two better-than-Simmonds options on the right at the moment. Also, despite having similar numbers, they don't play a similar game. 

 

As most of us are, I'm pretty curious to see how JVR pans out. It could obviously go either way at this point. You're right in that he's not exactly starting his prime years. At the same time, he will be slotting into a roster that has more talent available than he ever had in Toronto. He has similar numbers to Simmonds without any talented centres. He will have that now. He'll also have better dmen than he ever had in Toronto, and a stronger top six generally. 

 

Sure the current Toronto roster is maturing into a major force now, but that's very recent. He's basically leaving just when the team is finally shaping up into something. His most useful teammates over the years were Kessel, Bozak, and Kadri. That trio doesn't really scream elite to me. Kessel's got his thing, but that thing generally involves volume shooting which would not help JVR much.

 

All to say that I'm not sold on him exactly. It's a lot of money for a guy his age. At the same time, I'm not writing him off either. It'll be an interesting year to watch.

 

I'm under no delusion that they play a similar game (though I admit to not being sure what kind of game Simmonds will play this season after not really being able to play his game at all last year).

 

I agree that the position is the thing that makes him expendable, but it will not change his overall market value.  The Flyers may not want to spend top 6 dollars on him because he likely won't play top 6 minutes as you point out.   But someone will.  

 

Back to their games, I think overall, Simmonds is a far more well rounded player and can do everything to some degree (he was a pretty good penalty killer 2 years ago and wouldn't mind seeing more of that if he's good to go).  I think that actually makes him more valuable on the open market.  So maybe his market value vs. his value to the team balances out to something cheaper or at least shorter than JVR's deal?  Not sure.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, King Knut said:

I agree that the position is the thing that makes him expendable, but it will not change his overall market value.  The Flyers may not want to spend top 6 dollars on him because he likely won't play top 6 minutes as you point out.   But someone will.  

 

Absolutely, someone will pay him. He is still a top six RW and top PP guy on many teams in this league, just not the current Flyers. If he wants to get paid seven million per for five years, he will. It's just not likely to be in Philly. We're all going to miss him of course, but that's how the game goes.

 

I would love for Hex to find a way to keep him without breaking the bank, but frankly he's worth more than a third liner should get paid. It's not an easy situation. At the same time, if the vets can keep up a high level of play, this team is a goalie away from being a dark horse or better. Having the depth provided by a Simmonds on the third line and 2nd pp is a pretty great option to have. 

 

Who knows? It's messy anyway.

Edited by elmatus

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3 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

I was with you at the time about the practice injury, but apparently tearing his MCL made Couturier better!    

 

Of course Radko was pretty damn horrible that game and coughed up a big one.  Still (and this is no excuse) Malkin not getting called for Tripping Couturier and that leading to a goal really seemed to just shock the hell out of the Flyers.  They never recovered from it.  You could see them being utterly dumbstruck by the lack of a call in the moment, and the game started again and they were still just dumbstruck.  That's when game 6 fell apart.  Yes, the ref screwed up, or was paid off or whatever, but I'm not saying that's enough of a reason to blow it like that.  The team needed to respond.  I'm just saying to my eyes, failing to respond to that ridiculous non call was what did them in and when the game was lost.  

 

They were playing like crap a lot of that series and the lack of a healthy goalie didn't make anything any better.  The Penguins had their number all year, even though there were a few games the Flyers should have won against them.  The Capitals however... the Flyers had their number all year.  I think most would have laid odds on the Flyers.  

 

And they got no help in net either.

 

 

And yes the same bums will be back in net again...SMFH.

 

😡

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

And they got no help in net either.

 

 

And yes the same bums will be back in net again...SMFH.

 

😡

 

Much depends on their health.  Neuvy is clearly assumed to be injured at all times, but i’m Hearing rumors that the team convinced him to stay under their watch instead of using yet another one of his own personal coaching/rehabbing “experts” and maybe he’ll find something he’d been missing.

 

there are no guarantees obviously, but if Elliott and Stolarz can be healthy, I feel they’ll be enough to at least not be the reason they lose.  

 

Lyon is another crap shoot. No reason other than Flyer luck to question  His health, but what kind of play he’ll give us is face from assured in any direction.  At best, he might be “ok”. Which may be enough for a round or two even depending on the overall team play and the draw.  

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Posted (edited)
On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 10:22 AM, King Knut said:

 

Those contracts do suck and frankly, I can't imagine what either team is thinking.  Hayes at least scored 25 goals... once.  

But Wilson played on a line with one of the best centers in the game and the greatest goal scorer of a generation and was still pretty mediocre.  I can't imagine what the hell the Capitals were thinking other than, "We won the cup finally... DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING!"  

 

 

I think Hayes definitely has more potential than Wilson, I think Wilson is a glorified now 5mil dollar goon. Unless Simmer takes a discount 7 mil is just the start of negotiations. The only good thing that could make a difference in the price as far as resigning Simmer for cheaper is actually a bad thing and that is he had a down season.

Edited by Philly29

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If we had good goaltending and more experience on defense ,maybe it’s worth keeping Simmonds around, but with  the stiffs we have in goal,there is no way we go far in the playoffs. We need lightning  to strike in several areas to make a serious run. We need Stolarz, Hart or Neuvy to step up and take the starting job and give us consistent solid goaltending, Elliot is a stiff. We need Haag, Sanheim and Gudas to all step up their games big time or Meyers to come in and have a huge rookie season. Or else acquire a defenseman who can help cut down our goals against. We also need someone to step up a provide us with a real third line center. We also have to hope  Coots continues to be an offensive force. If our defense and goaltending are the same as last year we have no chance.

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Simmonds seems to have split into two spots on these forums, so I'll post here as well since it's worth mentioning:

 

 

Unless the Flyers where to be snakes, I don't see how two entities that have worked together and built trust in years, can see any wrong in an open honest dialogue about the organizational needs and the players personal needs.

 

- Organizational needs:

We need to field a team for the next 5 years to "win multiple" cups. We have to manage a cap for future assets in this five year process. We can spend extra money in the next two years, but after that we will be under some constraints in the next four or five years and will be up against the wall financially and asset-wise.

 

- Simmers needs:

I need to be paid for my hard work.

If you can give me top dollars as a show of gratitude for a few years(two or three) would be reasonable, then sign me for a fair, reasonable extension for 5 more years and possible retirement and work for the organization after to ensure I have income coming in for my later years, this would give me security for me and my family.

 

------------------------------------------------

 

I really see this as a win-win situation for both entities involved.

I mean why can't both parties come to the table and state their view on needs and try to make it work, if need be as creative as possible to hit the numbers they're looking for.

What real restrictions are really holding back this from getting done.

 

I mean Simmer isn't going to flake out on the team. He gives 120% in his tenure with the Flyers. They should pay him big for two-three years, then a reasonable pay amount for another five years on a separate deal.

 In a way front loading for the first few years and cutting it off then. So on the second contract that money won't be tied into the cap hit for the new contract of five years at a reasonable amount.

 

Is it possible to do a two year @ 7.5 even add a signing bonus of 500k per year or so, so Simmer gets big money.

Then give out a five year incentive laden contract that if he hits the numbers outline he can be bumped up per year to year if he reaches those numbers during the second contract.

I would think this is reasonable and a win-win way of solving two problems.

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Wow!  No respect for Tom Wilson at all.  I know if he were a Flyer he'd be a fan favorite.  I think he's one of those guys whose value isn't reflected in stats.  He's a spark for them.  "Goon" might be the right term by today's standards, but he brings much more than the old definition of the word.  He can score on occasion and he protects the Caps top assets.  The kind of guy we've been screaming for for a decade.

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On 8/4/2018 at 8:50 AM, Poconono said:

Wow!  No respect for Tom Wilson at all.  I know if he were a Flyer he'd be a fan favorite.  I think he's one of those guys whose value isn't reflected in stats.  He's a spark for them.  "Goon" might be the right term by today's standards, but he brings much more than the old definition of the word.  He can score on occasion and he protects the Caps top assets.  The kind of guy we've been screaming for for a decade.

 

While those types of players are great to have, they aren't $5.2 for 6 years great.  The most points he had was this year with 35, before that his career high is 23.  He definitely stepped it up in the playoffs so maybe that was part of the logic behind the contract but still a very substantial over payment in my opinion.

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With around 10 million left in cap space depending on how the negotiations go you could see move Simmer for one of two guys back on short deals...

 

 

...either before the season starts or sometime during the season...Ron has the room to take something back for a playoff push.

 

You can't roll that cap space over and i know it wouldn't sit well with fans to NOT use it.

 

Guess we'll see...all that room left i think he will move Simmer for a nice haul back....just my gut feeling...

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    • 3
      Post
      While those types of players are great to have, they aren't $5.2 for 6 years great.  The most points he had was this year with 35, before that his career high is 23.  He definitely stepped it up in the playoffs so maybe that was part of the logic behind the contract but still a very substantial over payment in my opinion.
    • 2
      Post
      I doubt Provo will get a bridge. Hexy will just sign him long term right out of his ELC. He should anyway; otherwise, he'll be paying millions more following a bridge.
    • 2
      Post
      He was losing his PP time to Patrick because he was injured and because they still had Filppula.  This year, Patrick will likely have to center the second unit and that will likely put Simmer back on the top unit if he's healthy.   I think you pull the trigger if you get a great offer in the off season.  Mid season, or at the deadline, you only pull the trigger if you're out of it and you know it or if you're close, but several  key guys are injured so you know you're not going far even if you make the playoffs.     Trading Simmonds will SCREW UP THIS TEAM and SCREW UP THIS LOCKER ROOM.  If you do that in the regular season, you can kiss a decent year thereafter goodbye.     Personally I think they try to extend him for 5 years now before he has a chance at being great or crappy in his return.      
    • 1
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      If these two guys got 5 million,  you have to figure Simmonds is gonna be looking for 7 million a year and at age 30 hes gonna be looking for more than 5 years for his last big paycheck. I just don't see the Flyers being able to sign him.
    • 1
      Post
      There aren't any young Simmers.     Some of us have been saying he'd be looking for at least 7 for a long time now.  A down season may have made some people think otherwise, but on the other hand, a guy who was playing through all those injuries still scored 24 goals for you.  Cha-Ching!   The thing that I brought up in the other thread (that I cribbed from BSH radio's Steph Driver) that gives me a little bit of hope is that if you sign a sweetheart deal with the Flyers, you kinda know that you'll have a job of some sort or another for the rest of your natural life.     If Wayne has dreams of being a coach some day, sticking around here for less money and getting a  job in the organization somewhere might be a fast track to that path that could avoid stops in high school or juniors.   Lappy still has a job in the NHL, Danny Briere is the GM of an ECHL team, many many former Flyers are scouts, conditioning coaches, etc etc etc.  Or Maybe Simmer is looking at Boosh on those national broadcasts and thinking, "hey, I could do that!"       Then there are the endorsement deals.  Wawa billboards can pay pretty nicely, and far better than they might in town like Phoenix or Columbus or Buffalo.     Point is, there are things that could convince him to stick around for less money that I myself hadn't really been taking into account before.    
    • 1
      Post
      If we had good goaltending and more experience on defense ,maybe it’s worth keeping Simmonds around, but with  the stiffs we have in goal,there is no way we go far in the playoffs. We need lightning  to strike in several areas to make a serious run. We need Stolarz, Hart or Neuvy to step up and take the starting job and give us consistent solid goaltending, Elliot is a stiff. We need Haag, Sanheim and Gudas to all step up their games big time or Meyers to come in and have a huge rookie season. Or else acquire a defenseman who can help cut down our goals against. We also need someone to step up a provide us with a real third line center. We also have to hope  Coots continues to be an offensive force. If our defense and goaltending are the same as last year we have no chance.

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