'18-'19 Outlook

[CreaseAndAssist]

On 8/4/2018 at 1:31 AM, DirtofMinny said:

Yes, I do, can't be any worse than Cullen no matter who you put out there.  Probably the softest bottom 6 in the league.  BB needs to push the bottom 6, big time.  Got to see some big hits.  

 

Ok, so if our bottom 6 is still not exactly full of speed or wrecking balls...then what do we have?  Its certainly not scoring judging by their most recent production so what meaningful change has been made from a season ago.  

 

Yes, this team could deploy players better suited for overtime.  I think we ALL realize that.  However, what have we seen?  We see lots of #20, #11, #9...and then maybe in the last minute #16 finally gets a shift.  Do I think Boudreau feels that's the best guys for that situation?  No.  But is there a mandate from above to put the big $$$ on the ice during that time?  I think there might be.  So, considering that pressure from the top probably has not changed...should we really expect changes?  Probably not.  Afterall they talked about 'tweaks' and that implies pretty slight adjustments...not a major shift in personnel deployment IMO.  

 

We spent a premium for one hitter, Marcus Foligno and was he just a tank out there?  I didn't think so.  @IllaZilla is 100% correct, our playoff failure was mostly about our inability to score than being poor defensively or between the pipes.  And that's been the case for a while and we're going to try it again with the same players (albeit a little older) and hoping it will be enough.  Sorry...we've seen this story before and there is no reason for us to expect it to end any differently than it has the last 6 seasons.  

 

Also, Rotten is right about Parise's health.  At this point we'll be lucky if we get 50%-60% of the season with him healthy and until that last month he wasn't providing the team with much of anything either.  I am not as worried about Suter not being there.  I welcomed him not being there for the playoffs and I'll be ok with him not being there at the start of this season.  I don't think he's a team player and IMO he's a big part of the culture problem for this club.  

[IllaZilla]

14 hours ago, sweetshot said:

Gaborik was arguably one of those guys--someone said he was a player that could tilt the rink--and perhaps even Burns for at least a couple of years. Would have been interesting to see those 2 mature together with the Wild. Lemaire probably would have stayed also.

(sigh)Oh well.... 

 

Gaborik was one of those players who was dangerous whenever he was on the ice. Maybe not Sidney Crosby dangerous, but much better than any player the Wild currently have. Unfortunately, he couldn't stay healthy until after he left the Wild.

 

I think Burns could have been a great player for the Wild (much better than Brodin) providing the Wild pick a position for him and let him there. They were constantly moving him from defense to forward and then back to defense. That had to be really hard for him to keep having to adjust back and forth like that, and it may be why he didn't really blossom until after he left the Wild. 

 

As far as Lemaire staying, I don't know about that. According to @CreaseAndAssist, in a book by Tom Lynn, it was insinuated that Lemaire was turning into a cranky old man. Even when the team was winning he wasn't happy. So I don't know if he would have stayed. Besides, Fletcher had just been named GM, and usually GM's like to bring in their own people. So it doesn't surprise me that Lemaire left the team.

[Tomdog]

Gaborik was also one of those guys that floated around the blue line waiting for a pass for the breakaway opportunity. 

As far as playoff scoring, we could improve if coach starts demanding a more aggressive forecheck. One player trying to pressure two defenseman is a recipe for disaster. 

Players like Nino must be willing to hit someone, Mikko must drive all the way to the end boards if he is the second player into the zone. 

There are many examples of play that could be changed by coaching a slightly different skeem. 

[CreaseAndAssist]

1 hour ago, IllaZilla said:

 

Gaborik was one of those players who was dangerous whenever he was on the ice. Maybe not Sidney Crosby dangerous, but much better than any player the Wild currently have. Unfortunately, he couldn't stay healthy until after he left the Wild.

 

I think Burns could have been a great player for the Wild (much better than Brodin) providing the Wild pick a position for him and let him there. They were constantly moving him from defense to forward and then back to defense. That had to be really hard for him to keep having to adjust back and forth like that, and it may be why he didn't really blossom until after he left the Wild. 

 

As far as Lemaire staying, I don't know about that. According to @CreaseAndAssist, in a book by Tom Lynn, it was insinuated that Lemaire was turning into a cranky old man. Even when the team was winning he wasn't happy. So I don't know if he would have stayed. Besides, Fletcher had just been named GM, and usually GM's like to bring in their own people. So it doesn't surprise me that Lemaire left the team.

 

Tom Lynn stated Lemaire just sort of went over the edge where just about everything wasn't good enough.  He'd rant to Lynn about the players or anything pissing him off even outside of hockey and was seeing conspiracies all over.  At least according to Lynn's book.

[sweetshot]

2 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Ok, so if our bottom 6 is still not exactly full of speed or wrecking balls...then what do we have?  Its certainly not scoring judging by their most recent production so what meaningful change has been made from a season ago.  

 

Yes, this team could deploy players better suited for overtime.  I think we ALL realize that.  However, what have we seen?  We see lots of #20, #11, #9...and then maybe in the last minute #16 finally gets a shift.  Do I think Boudreau feels that's the best guys for that situation?  No.  But is there a mandate from above to put the big $$$ on the ice during that time?  I think there might be.  So, considering that pressure from the top probably has not changed...should we really expect changes?  Probably not.  Afterall they talked about 'tweaks' and that implies pretty slight adjustments...not a major shift in personnel deployment IMO.  

 

We spent a premium for one hitter, Marcus Foligno and was he just a tank out there?  I didn't think so.  @IllaZilla is 100% correct, our playoff failure was mostly about our inability to score than being poor defensively or between the pipes.  And that's been the case for a while and we're going to try it again with the same players (albeit a little older) and hoping it will be enough.  Sorry...we've seen this story before and there is no reason for us to expect it to end any differently than it has the last 6 seasons.  

 

Also, Rotten is right about Parise's health.  At this point we'll be lucky if we get 50%-60% of the season with him healthy and until that last month he wasn't providing the team with much of anything either.  I am not as worried about Suter not being there.  I welcomed him not being there for the playoffs and I'll be ok with him not being there at the start of this season.  I don't think he's a team player and IMO he's a big part of the culture problem for this club.  

You summed things up nicely. I think Suter and CL may be joined at the hip. The Ying and Yang brothers. Does this kind of BS exist everywhere in the NHL or just here??

With Suter missing one thing that could suffer is the Wild's PP. I don't like that whimpy wrist shot he uses, but he's got good hands and IMO passes the puck very well and is good at keeping the puck in the offensive zone when pressured. 

I'm kind of looking forward to see how Dumba handles his expanded role on this team--IMO he's going to be the guy asked to cover a lot of Suter's minutes and responsibilities.

[IllaZilla]

1 hour ago, sweetshot said:

You summed things up nicely. I think Suter and CL may be joined at the hip. The Ying and Yang brothers. Does this kind of BS exist everywhere in the NHL or just here??

With Suter missing one thing that could suffer is the Wild's PP. I don't like that whimpy wrist shot he uses, but he's got good hands and IMO passes the puck very well and is good at keeping the puck in the offensive zone when pressured. 

I'm kind of looking forward to see how Dumba handles his expanded role on this team--IMO he's going to be the guy asked to cover a lot of Suter's minutes and responsibilities.

 

If the Wild do not start letting the younger guys get more time on the PP, it's only going to remain the same: Koivu on the half wall, Suter on the point with his limp wrister and Parise getting pummeled in front of the net. The young guys aren't going to learn how to handle the PP if they're never allowed to be on it...

[rottenrefs]

23 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

If the Wild do not start letting the younger guys get more time on the PP, it's only going to remain the same: Koivu on the half wall, Suter on the point with his limp wrister and Parise getting pummeled in front of the net. The young guys aren't going to learn how to handle the PP if they're never allowed to be on it...

They will get more time on the PP.

 

Hopefully though more than the 15-20 second blips they got with 2-4 shots on net; after the 1st PP unit burned off 1:40 to 1:45 minutes with 0-2 shots floating in from 30 feet away at what? 14 mph wrist shots by Suter.

 

I can't figure out if big body Koivu fears the puck coming in hitting him or being checked out in front of the net scares him more.

[CreaseAndAssist]

3 hours ago, rottenrefs said:

They will get more time on the PP.

 

Hopefully though more than the 15-20 second blips they got with 2-4 shots on net; after the 1st PP unit burned off 1:40 to 1:45 minutes with 0-2 shots floating in from 30 feet away at what? 14 mph wrist shots by Suter.

 

I can't figure out if big body Koivu fears the puck coming in hitting him or being checked out in front of the net scares him more.

 

But but...that intense Finnish stare of his.  You're right, its about as scary as the Care Bear Stare!

 

[IllaZilla]

2 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

But but...that intense Finnish stare of his.  You're right, its about as scary as the Care Bear Stare!

 

 

At least the Care Bear shoots gold hearts with his stare....

[4Check]

In Russo's Athletic Q & A, he floated the idea of  having JEE centering Coyle & Nino, with Koivu between Parise and Greenway  .  (suggesting Boudreau thought Greenway could play the off wing) and of course Staal between 16 & 64.  Personally I like it.  It gives  JEE  the possibility of being, at worst a 2B rather than strictly a 3rd line designation.   And it allows the two vet forwards to mentor Greenway.   Plus, hopefully with Koivu centering, they would get the defensive matchup assignments, freeing up the other two lines for more favorable matchups..

[rottenrefs]

31 minutes ago, 4Check said:

In Russo's Athletic Q & A, he floated the idea of  having JEE centering Coyle & Nino, with Koivu between Parise and Greenway  .  (suggesting Boudreau thought Greenway could play the off wing) and of course Staal between 16 & 64.  Personally I like it.  It gives  JEE  the possibility of being, at worst a 2B rather than strictly a 3rd line designation.   And it allows the two vet forwards to mentor Greenway.   Plus, hopefully with Koivu centering, they would get the defensive matchup assignments, freeing up the other two lines for more favorable matchups..

If it makes sense the Wild will never do it.

Plus I don't see Parise opting for anything less than 2nd line minutes and if they do put him with Koivu they'll still see more minutes than the first line; which is absolutely nuts. They'll definitely see more minutes than the floated 2nd line, which too is batsh!t crazy.

[Gnarkill]

I'd rather not have Greenway mentored by Koivu.. if theres one sure way to ruin his development and turn him into a passive wimp that doesn't play with emotion/heart or use his size/physicality to his advantage.. thats it.

[4Check]

I respectfully somewhat disagree.   Koivu is a tenacious defender.  His willingness to engage in puck battles is excellent.   He is very good along the boards in all zones. Where I agree....is his over emphasis on stick checking and rarely playing the body.   And, from a captain's standpoint,  his unwillingness to stand up for teammates.  A couple of real disappointments ESPECIALLY from your presumed leader.

Before I'm labeled somewhat of a Koivu apologist, I believe he has become a third line caliber center, which then obviously makes him over paid.   That said, I'd rather have over paid him then handing him a 2 year NTC.      

 

[CreaseAndAssist]

4 hours ago, Gnarkill said:

I'd rather not have Greenway mentored by Koivu.. if theres one sure way to ruin his development and turn him into a passive wimp that doesn't play with emotion/heart or use his size/physicality to his advantage.. thats it.

 

Yes...all Greenway will learn is that he keeps having to feed #9 or #11 the puck and stay out of the way.  

[rottenrefs]

Koivu's only good if he has two speedy workhorses for each of his wings. Outside of that he's basically an ordinary hockey player.

[CreaseAndAssist]

17 minutes ago, rottenrefs said:

Koivu's only good if he has two speedy workhorses for each of his wings. Outside of that he's basically an ordinary hockey player.

 

I agree, and serves as a boat anchor for the line...

[rottenrefs]

2 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

I agree, and serves as a boat anchor for the line...

Especially on the PP and in OT. I don't know what the hell management sees in him to allow him the first man out there on PP's. At least they're learning in OT but jeebers, two years too late.

[sweetshot]

3 hours ago, rottenrefs said:

Koivu's only good if he has two speedy workhorses for each of his wings. Outside of that he's basically an ordinary hockey player.

Well now, yeah, at his age. But when he was in his prime that one year he was a pretty good player. 

All the off the ice BS aside, IMO he's been a good player for the Wild. Not a #1 center for sure, but the brass made him one.

 

[sweetshot]

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 2:56 PM, Fargocase said:

I totally agree that the "tanking" scheme is total hogwash fantasy.   For every team that you can claim has tanked (which they probably didn't do intentionally, they just sucked naturally) I could name two teams that have sucked for years and years and still suck, despite the high draft picks - Edm, Buff, Fla, NYI, Tor.   True generational talents are few and far between.

 

Fact is, it's hard as hell to win the Cup and several years of sucking doesn't guarantee anything.

 

Not to mention the Draft lottery.

 

I also agree that the Wild not having a true elite Super Star is a bad thing,  BUT one or two Super Stars absolutely does NOT guarantee a Cup, it takes a team and a lot of luck. 

 

Since the Wild didn't change anything, I expect next season to be very similar to the past year.  But if the team gets lucky avoiding injuries, they could easily advance a few rounds in the Playoffs.

You're right, having one or 2 superstars does not guarantee winning the cup, but not having one or 2 superstars pretty much guarantees NOT winning one.

[Fargocase]

20 minutes ago, sweetshot said:

You're right, having one or 2 superstars does not guarantee winning the cup, but not having one or 2 superstars pretty much guarantees NOT winning one.

 

Tell that to Matt Cullen and the Carolina Hurricanes.  And many of those "superstars" only became "superstars" AFTER. their team won the Cup.

[sweetshot]

2 hours ago, Fargocase said:

 

Tell that to Matt Cullen and the Carolina Hurricanes.  And many of those "superstars" only became "superstars" AFTER. their team won the Cup.

Our own Eric Staal was a superstar that season, scoring 100 points during the regular season and 28 during the playoffs for the Hurricanes. They also had Ray Whitney who played in 1300 games and had over 1000 points, Doug Weight 1200 games and 1000 points, Rod Brind'amour 1500 games and 1200 points, and Mark Recchi(HOF) 1650 games and over 1500 points in their careers. They had some talent.

[rottenrefs]

6 hours ago, sweetshot said:

Well now, yeah, at his age. But when he was in his prime that one year he was a pretty good player. 

All the off the ice BS aside, IMO he's been a good player for the Wild. Not a #1 center for sure, but the brass made him one.

 

No doubt Koivu has had some pretty good years but the best one was when he was an up and coming player the year he broke his leg. Ever since then he's never been the same. After that all his courage and confidence going to the net hard left him.

[Fargocase]

On ‎8‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 12:55 AM, sweetshot said:

Our own Eric Staal was a superstar that season, scoring 100 points during the regular season and 28 during the playoffs for the Hurricanes. They also had Ray Whitney who played in 1300 games and had over 1000 points, Doug Weight 1200 games and 1000 points, Rod Brind'amour 1500 games and 1200 points, and Mark Recchi(HOF) 1650 games and over 1500 points in their careers. They had some talent.

 

Yes, they definitely had some talent, they did win the Stanley Cup after all.    

 

E. Stall never was a "Super Star".   That year, as a very young player, was actually his career year.  For many years after that he was just a very good player on what was usually a very poor team.  Neither were any of the other guys you named.   Not even close IMO...   Unless for some silly reason you think longevity = greatness/Stardom.   For a few years Recchi was a "Star" a long, long time prior to that Carolina Cup win, when he was on great teams with true SuperStars.   By the Carolina days he was just an aging Vet, a trade deadline guy, jumping team to team.   As was Weight - an aging Vet.   Recchi and Weight were brilliant Trade Deadline moves by Rutherford, but their days of being even regular Stars were long past.  That's why Carolina quickly dropped after that miracle season for them.

 

Eric Lindros was a Super Star.  Brind A'mour was never in that class.   He was always highly respected and an excellent all around player but never close to a "Super Star."   

 

 

[CreaseAndAssist]

Staal isn't a superstar because he wasn't able to follow up on that big season, but he was certainly closer to that status than anyone we have on our team right now IMO.  

 

AT best I see this team in roughly the same spot as it was last year, but I don't see how they'll advance beyond round 1.  St. Louis reloaded, Winnipeg will be great, Nashville will be solid, Dallas is dangerous, Colorado seems to be putting it together.  That doesn't bode well for a team that didn't do anything and only got older like Minnesota and Chicago.  

[TonyOday]

On 8/11/2018 at 7:07 AM, CreaseAndAssist said:

Staal isn't a superstar because he wasn't able to follow up on that big season, but he was certainly closer to that status than anyone we have on our team right now IMO.  

 

AT best I see this team in roughly the same spot as it was last year, but I don't see how they'll advance beyond round 1.  St. Louis reloaded, Winnipeg will be great, Nashville will be solid, Dallas is dangerous, Colorado seems to be putting it together.  That doesn't bode well for a team that didn't do anything and only got older like Minnesota and Chicago.  

Zucker will be a superstar. I think he puts 40 in this year.