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rottenrefs

Excuses, excuses - Winners don't need no stinking excuses!

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22 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

Jonathan Towes (61%)

Did you spell his name wrong on purpose, or did you not know how to spell his name?

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I still don't know what the hell the big deal is about Koivu winning a draw 63% of the time if it takes the 1st PP unit 1:30 minutes into the PP to establish the zone. ^ This, after losing the puck 1-3 times before :30 seconds is left on the clock.

 

Seeing all the hype about faceoff importance credited to Koivu... I feel like I'm in a conversation with Anthony LaPanta and Mike Greenlay (aka Dumb and Dumber.)

 

Hey Mike, if you're out there... How are those hair plugs working for ya my man?

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The PP has been broken for years so lets keep doing the same thing and expect different results. That is a fuc king great idea, at least Mikko's faceoff percentage is staggering at 63%. Sign him another couple years and increase his TOI. Wonder who can skate backwards the fastest on the team? Make sure he is on the PP too because that is pretty to watch. Not going to put the puck in the net and win games but pretty none the less.

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Posted (edited)

Wilds issues started with Leopold grabbing Fletcher. From there it snowballed badly. No development in the AHL. Weak drafting that has crippled the team. Insane contracts that anybody with hockey sense seen were terrible. Tying the franchise to a 2nd line center at best but more of a third liner. Trades throwing picks for rental players that literally disappear out of the NHL after their contract is up with the Wild. There is so much more!

 

I think the thing that drives me the most nuts is how many "fans" buy in to whatever the Wild media and franchise tells them. They were told Parise is elite. If you would have taken one minute to look at his stats you would have seen he had one elite year but otherwise struggles to even be a top 50 player. With his stats, if you gave Zucker the same contract people would be very upset but for some reason it's different because he is one of us. Fan favorites get treated the same way even though they could be anchoring the team. Hell, these fans are buying in that making the playoffs ever year is a true sign of a elite team. Forget that every year they are beat so badly in the first round that they look like a high school team playing a NHL team. They buy into the excuse that they are one small tune up away from being a cup team. They buy into all the excuses and still do. Let me ask you, what have been the results the last 5 or 6 years?

 

How many excuses can you keep swallowing? How is it a team that is the most "talented" in franchise history can barely produce 1 win in the first round yet a team in it's third year of existence filled with rejects of other teams was able to go the furthest in franchise history? The excuses will keep flying but it's time to face facts. The team wasn't put together correct and has the wrong pieces. Minnesota fans have to get off of the "one of us" and fan favorites and start demanding a Cup contender team or we continue to trend of a slow decline. A big drop in attendance and sales will help enforce that we want Cups and not be a nice, easy retirement location for "one of us" players or washed up names that should have retired 5+ years ago.

 

I also have to say I don't trust Fenton either. I mean what kind of GM would want to come in to a mess and have a owner say to the public that there will only be a minor tweak or two and nothing else will be done? I think Leopold found his Fletcher 2.0. One thing to come to a mess and be told by the owner do what you need to do to fix the issues. Another to come to a team that the owner fired the GM for the mess and then say come here but the only solution you have is to make a very minor tweak or two and that's it. Sadly I don't see a lot of good out of that. I hope I am wrong. I love hockey. I love going to see the Wild but the Wild have shown me enough that the owner thinks he knows all and forcing his hand on the GMs I just won't be ponying any money up to go see their games or buy any merchandise until I see real positive steps. I will watch them from home. Sadly I don't know if I will be pulling my Wild sweaters out much this year like I normally like to do.

 

The Wild have a ton of issues and to be frank, have been overachieving. It will come crashing down soon unless some of our younger guys step up a few levels and stay there consistently. But there is always a excuse. A injury here, a bad puck bounce there, a busy schedule, etc. But the Wild are no different then any other team. EVERY SINGLE TEAM DEALS WITH THE EXACT SAME ISSUES! It's just that those teams that are good are able to recover, turn it up a gear, play as a team and have players do what is best for the team instead of what is best for the player. If you still buy into their excuses, I have some magic beans for sale. I can sell you 3 for $500 and you will see double your profit after you plant them.

Edited by EJ0226
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I wanted to add to my post above that this franchise is 4-9 in the playoffs. 2-1 of that came in 2002-2003 season. The 2-7 have come during the Parise/Suter era of "our most talented team in franchise history". And the two wins have come in two different playoff years. Making the playoffs doesn't make you a good team. After all 16 teams make it. There is 31 teams in NHL. Now making the playoffs and putting up a fight and actually winning 8 games in one playoff year would make you a good team. It's sad to think in 2003 the Wild won 8 games and lost 10. The Parise/Suter era have won 14 games and lost 25 in 6 playoff years. The most wins they got in one year is 6. In the last three years of playoff hockey we have managed enough wins to advanced out of the first round. This isn't a good team. This is a team that sneaks in and has no other gears to go to and is embarrassed in 4 to 6 games at most.

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Yep, we end up 15th or 16th in the league every year "out fu cking standing" and probably top 3 in sales

 

but one of these years we will get lucky 😥

Edited by WileyOz44
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On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 2:39 PM, Confrontational said:

 

Staal hands down - beats Mikko like a rented mule in every category (well, besides passing nonstop on a power play)…

 

 

Call it an excuse all you want.  The fact is injuries have wrecked the seasons of many players - from Mario and Gretz on down.  Ended the career of the greatest defenseman of all time very prematurely.  AND injuries wrecked the seasons of Nino and Coyle last year.  It shouldn't be any great revelation that it takes time to get back into shape after injuries.  Parise is a perfect example.  The Haters went nuts last year that a guy coming back from major back surgery in the middle of the season, with no Training Camp, no pre-season games, when the other players were in mid-season form, didn't immediately didn't score a boatload of goals.  Talk about stupid demands and ridiculous expectations...

 

Mikko and Big E. are drastically different players.  Mikko is a Selke guy, Big E. is an old school scorer.

 

Down a goal play E. Staal.  Up a goal play Mikko.  Tie game, whoever is playing better that game, although obviously you play both.

 

Again - it isn't Mikko's fault the Wild organization over-hyped him to a sickening degree or overpaid him so much.  That does not make him a bad player.

Edited by Fargocase

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11 hours ago, Fargocase said:


 

Again - it isn't Mikko's fault the Wild organization over-hyped him to a sickening degree or overpaid him so much.  That does not make him a bad player.

Everybody grab your pitchforks! This guy just doesn't get it. Koivu runs this team, bud. He is the source of all problems and therefore the greatest evil that has ever existed in MN hockey. *sarcasm*

 

Seriously though, I'm not a fan of Koivu, more so his contract than his play, but the pundits love using him as the source of the problems. Dare I say, exaggerated excuses for hating? 

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3 hours ago, puck_hawg said:

Everybody grab your pitchforks! This guy just doesn't get it. Koivu runs this team, bud. He is the source of all problems and therefore the greatest evil that has ever existed in MN hockey. *sarcasm*

 

Seriously though, I'm not a fan of Koivu, more so his contract than his play, but the pundits love using him as the source of the problems. Dare I say, exaggerated excuses for hating? 

 

$5.5 million and a no movement clause for a slow 35+ year old center means the exaggeration for excuses are non-existent.  He just isn't worth it or all that great anymore.  

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I wonder whether the slow tag gets overplayed. Gretzky was not a traditional speed merchant. To my eyes Zuckerberg and Parise are fast. Stall and Koivu take flight when they stride out but maybe are not explosive. Suppose could watch a practice to see who excels on the crushers or board to board drills. Granlund continues to improve as a skater.

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@Icechipper Gretzky maybe more than anything, always seemed to be open. Fast, or quick enough? So it seemed. Slippery or elusive, but maybe more than anything he could put that puck in the net with crazy precision. One thing he didn't do was stop to think about when to shoot the puck... It was already on its way in the net.

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3 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

$5.5 million and a no movement clause for a slow 35+ year old center means the exaggeration for excuses are non-existent.  He just isn't worth it or all that great anymore.  

I agree he isn't worth it. I hate the contract. The point here is, there is a large part of the fan base who just piss on everything, while maintaining hope that the team wins. I think it's a cowardly move. It's so easy to doubt and to predict failure, especially when only one team can win it all.

I wonder how many on here actually enjoy watching the Wild. It sounds like a bunch of amateur coaches watching film in here.

Also, does anyone else in here have a sense of humor? Or is Wild hockey that f-ing serious? 

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3 hours ago, puck_hawg said:

I. I think it's a cowardly move. It's so easy to doubt and to predict failure, especially when only one team can win it all.

I wonder how many on here actually enjoy watching the Wild. It sounds like a bunch of amateur coaches watching film in here.

 

 

So far this year I'm 1-2 enjoying watching the games.  I DVD almost every game and watch certain plays over and over and over until I'm satisfied I see what led up to the event.  I see what I see and I form my own opinions.  Even though this year has started crummy, I actually do look forward to watching each game!  And just like last year, I'm irritated at the big gaps to start the season!  But I'll get over it...  :D

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4 hours ago, Icechipper said:

I wonder whether the slow tag gets overplayed. 

 

It's a defect but the way he plays minimizes it.    Both Mikko and Walz were Selke Finalists and you couldn't have two more different styles and speeds of play comparing those two.   Mikko always has been an outstanding defensive player, just not a top echelon NHL #1 Center like the organization worked so hard to get the  #1 Sheep to believe.

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3 minutes ago, Fargocase said:

 

So far this year I'm 1-2 enjoying watching the games.  I DVD almost every game and watch certain plays over and over and over until I'm satisfied I see what led up to the event.  I see what I see and I form my own opinions.  Even though this year has started crummy, I actually do look forward to watching each game!  And just like last year, I'm irritated at the big gaps to start the season!  But I'll get over it...  :D

It hasn't been a good start for sure. I just get annoyed when things get rough people come out of the woodwork with the "I told ya so" and patting themselves on the back like "they" have it all figured out.

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With you there.  I never used the Ignore feature before but I have it turned on now.  Life's too short to waste time with the repetitious kind of crap that killed the Official site message board.

 

 I still think people under rate how good this team really is and can be.  But that's not a surprise.   So I'm going to watch the games, just like I have since Year 1.     

Edited by Fargocase
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On 8/30/2018 at 9:37 AM, WileyOz44 said:

 

Because they  just plain refuse to change the root of the problem so instead they blow smoke and the Mn Nice fans eat it all up... yum, yum, yummmy

 

In my opinion the root of the problem is Mikko and his so called leadership skills. Obviously his style of leadership does not work and if you think it does work, please explain which year? They desperately need a shake up (like 5 years ago) they need to be hollered at and kicking/screaming leadership... obviously babying them does not work and or the quiet leader style Mikko tries to pull off. How much better would we be right now if they sent Mikko packing and kept Burns? That one move changed this team and it has not been the same since.

 

Tired of hearing how great Mikko is because he wins face offs, blah, blah, blah. He is a 3rd line center, PK Specialist, nothing more and never belongs on the PP. Other then that he eats up valuable minutes that most NHL'ers would also shine "occasionally" as does Mikko "occasionally". Many of the other players see the coasting and say ** ** it, so coast and take games off themselves. He is by far the worst example of a Captain in the league. The Wild culture has been Mikko, Mikko, Mikko for far too many years.

 

I am not saying Mikko is a bad person or terrible hockey player just never what the Wild sell/sold him as for a decade now as this Elite Super Star, the players see it; shame on the Wild Brass. Plain and simple, want change for the better got to start at the top and the only thing that has always stayed intact is our "Fearless" Leader Mikko, LMAO................. that is what became the death of Chuck Fletcher, many other players, and where all these excuses come from year after year, after year.

These comments capture my thoughts exactly.  Koivu is the root of all that is wrong with the Wild.  It started when he was sold to the sheep as a top-line player, and continued when they gave him the C.  He has no business being a C, when he has failed to lead this team time and again in the playoffs.  Just de-emphasize his influence now, and the Wild would be MUCH better off.  Staal in a much better choice as a C, and has won the Cup while captain.

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10 hours ago, Fargocase said:

With you there.  I never used the Ignore feature before but I have it turned on now.  Life's too short to waste time with the repetitious kind of crap that killed the Official site message board.

 

 I still think people under rate how good this team really is and can be.  But that's not a surprise.   So I'm going to watch the games, just like I have since Year 1.     

After quoting and attacking one of my posts last week proclaiming you 'never use the ignore feature but you're going to now'... I don't think you have a handle on it yet.

 

No one is bending your arm to CONTINUALLY attack people not agreeing with you. Get over it. 

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7 hours ago, EmptyShelf said:

These comments capture my thoughts exactly.  Koivu is the root of all that is wrong with the Wild.  It started when he was sold to the sheep as a top-line player, and continued when they gave him the C.  He has no business being a C, when he has failed to lead this team time and again in the playoffs.  Just de-emphasize his influence now, and the Wild would be MUCH better off.  Staal in a much better choice as a C, and has won the Cup while captain.

In defense of MK: what has ever given you the impression about MK that he has ever made any demands from any of his coaches or the front office? I don't see anything. Now I know I don't truly know MK, all I see is what's on the tube or I've read about him, but I'm telling you he is not that type of individual. 

You want to blame somebody, blame management. They are the ones who decided to put up MK as the player who most represents the franchise. And I think MK is a good choice. But the way management has selected to play this out over the past 10+ years has gone way over the top. I could go on and on about some of the decisions this team has made based on the fact they've put MK on a pedestal--but I won't.

 Oh, and BTW, he makes a good Captain. Maybe there's other teammates from past Wild teams who could have been better than MK, but with the current group, IMO he's the only choice.

I just wanted to say don't blame MK--its not any of his doing--he didn't choose to be "the man".

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9 hours ago, EmptyShelf said:

 Staal in a much better choice as a C, and has won the Cup while captain.

 

Mikko is the root of all evil?  For phuck's sake, get a grip.

 

And learn your history.  Rod Brind'Amour was Captain of the Hurricane's when they won the Cup.  E. Staal was a young 2nd-3rd year stud.  The team's best player but NOT its Captain.

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      Wilds issues started with Leopold grabbing Fletcher. From there it snowballed badly. No development in the AHL. Weak drafting that has crippled the team. Insane contracts that anybody with hockey sense seen were terrible. Tying the franchise to a 2nd line center at best but more of a third liner. Trades throwing picks for rental players that literally disappear out of the NHL after their contract is up with the Wild. There is so much more!   I think the thing that drives me the most nuts is how many "fans" buy in to whatever the Wild media and franchise tells them. They were told Parise is elite. If you would have taken one minute to look at his stats you would have seen he had one elite year but otherwise struggles to even be a top 50 player. With his stats, if you gave Zucker the same contract people would be very upset but for some reason it's different because he is one of us. Fan favorites get treated the same way even though they could be anchoring the team. Hell, these fans are buying in that making the playoffs ever year is a true sign of a elite team. Forget that every year they are beat so badly in the first round that they look like a high school team playing a NHL team. They buy into the excuse that they are one small tune up away from being a cup team. They buy into all the excuses and still do. Let me ask you, what have been the results the last 5 or 6 years?   How many excuses can you keep swallowing? How is it a team that is the most "talented" in franchise history can barely produce 1 win in the first round yet a team in it's third year of existence filled with rejects of other teams was able to go the furthest in franchise history? The excuses will keep flying but it's time to face facts. The team wasn't put together correct and has the wrong pieces. Minnesota fans have to get off of the "one of us" and fan favorites and start demanding a Cup contender team or we continue to trend of a slow decline. A big drop in attendance and sales will help enforce that we want Cups and not be a nice, easy retirement location for "one of us" players or washed up names that should have retired 5+ years ago.   I also have to say I don't trust Fenton either. I mean what kind of GM would want to come in to a mess and have a owner say to the public that there will only be a minor tweak or two and nothing else will be done? I think Leopold found his Fletcher 2.0. One thing to come to a mess and be told by the owner do what you need to do to fix the issues. Another to come to a team that the owner fired the GM for the mess and then say come here but the only solution you have is to make a very minor tweak or two and that's it. Sadly I don't see a lot of good out of that. I hope I am wrong. I love hockey. I love going to see the Wild but the Wild have shown me enough that the owner thinks he knows all and forcing his hand on the GMs I just won't be ponying any money up to go see their games or buy any merchandise until I see real positive steps. I will watch them from home. Sadly I don't know if I will be pulling my Wild sweaters out much this year like I normally like to do.   The Wild have a ton of issues and to be frank, have been overachieving. It will come crashing down soon unless some of our younger guys step up a few levels and stay there consistently. But there is always a excuse. A injury here, a bad puck bounce there, a busy schedule, etc. But the Wild are no different then any other team. EVERY SINGLE TEAM DEALS WITH THE EXACT SAME ISSUES! It's just that those teams that are good are able to recover, turn it up a gear, play as a team and have players do what is best for the team instead of what is best for the player. If you still buy into their excuses, I have some magic beans for sale. I can sell you 3 for $500 and you will see double your profit after you plant them.
    • 2
      Post
      More excuses.   Injury related or not, why are injured players still getting their full equated minutes as usual? Two years ago Granlund dropped off in production shortly before the playoffs. After the playoffs it was discovered he had a broken hand.   How the hell can a broken hand go undetected by teammates, coaches, staff? A broken bone in the foot, strained groins, hampered hamstrings, etc., etc. Bruised elbows, knees, a broken heart, not getting laid by the old lady - and on and on.   As a professional hockey team who's in charge of noticing these things? Who is in charge of putting players out there at 100% and if they're not 100%, if they're playing at 90% or 95% (in some cases what? 80%?) what other players playing at 100% are better than putting those 'off their mark' in a different role so it doesn't hamper the whole phucking team?   A bigger question is why are players not reporting their injuries? Oh I get it, because they don't want to miss out. (Oh boy, I can see the rich little entitled snivels weeping from their eyes already.) I get it, but IT IS NOT what's best for the team. The case in point: Players are running the team and those put in charge of running the team are not. IMO that's just wrong and it needs to change. Yet far worse are those giving in to them with exceptions and runny nosed excuses.   - Likewise I do agree that newbies need to step up. But I will argue they are NOT capable of stepping up if they have their hands tied with others who don't have the capacity to also step up when they no longer have the gas in their tank to keep up.   Every single successful team out there has lines on it with veterans and lines with just younger guys. The Wild have never, ever, paired a group of young guys together and allowed them to develop through the year. They always put some has-been veteran among them then bitch, whine and complain that so and so had a chance to step up but didn't.
    • 2
      Post
      Because they are more talented than deadbeats on the 4th line who shoudn't replace them. Do you really think Winnik , Stewart, or Foligno could have replaced Coyle's minutes last year?  Or maybe you are thinking 3rd line center Cullen could have replaced Koivu since his scoring was a bit less than the previous year, but then Cullen only had 22 pts himself What did Ericsson-Ek do last year that deserves 2nd line minutes?     There is also a 23 man roster limit.  NHL teams can't just sit players and call-up from their AHL team at will.   Every team has injuries and every team has players that play through injuries.  This generally results in less than expected results for said player and often the same for the team results.  The playoffs are a different animal most players and teams will do whatever it takes to put the best team on the ice and that means playing injured vs installing a rookie with 20 min ice times.     In the last few years the Wild really haven't had much forward talent in their farm system to rely on call-ups, that is the biggest issue imo. this year they've rid the team of some of the 3rd and 4th line stiffs.  Who is it that you are speaking of that deserves top line minutes?   Zucker - Staal- Granlund Parise - Koivu - Coyle Nino - Ek - Rau Foligno - Greenway - Brown   In my opinion the 3rd and 4th lines are still very weak compared to other Playoff contenders, add an unhealthy Sutter and this team will have a hard time winning enough games to make the playoffs.
    • 2
      Post
      Because they  just plain refuse to change the root of the problem so instead they blow smoke and the Mn Nice fans eat it all up... yum, yum, yummmy   In my opinion the root of the problem is Mikko and his so called leadership skills. Obviously his style of leadership does not work and if you think it does work, please explain which year? They desperately need a shake up (like 5 years ago) they need to be hollered at and kicking/screaming leadership... obviously babying them does not work and or the quiet leader style Mikko tries to pull off. How much better would we be right now if they sent Mikko packing and kept Burns? That one move changed this team and it has not been the same since.   Tired of hearing how great Mikko is because he wins face offs, blah, blah, blah. He is a 3rd line center, PK Specialist, nothing more and never belongs on the PP. Other then that he eats up valuable minutes that most NHL'ers would also shine "occasionally" as does Mikko "occasionally". Many of the other players see the coasting and say ** ** it, so coast and take games off themselves. He is by far the worst example of a Captain in the league. The Wild culture has been Mikko, Mikko, Mikko for far too many years.   I am not saying Mikko is a bad person or terrible hockey player just never what the Wild sell/sold him as for a decade now as this Elite Super Star, the players see it; shame on the Wild Brass. Plain and simple, want change for the better got to start at the top and the only thing that has always stayed intact is our "Fearless" Leader Mikko, LMAO................. that is what became the death of Chuck Fletcher, many other players, and where all these excuses come from year after year, after year.
    • 2
      Post
      The Wild's power play has never been great. As far as getting a lot worse?  Depends on what you mean by "a lot worse". The Wild's power play hasn't really changed much, consistently hovering around that 17%-20%. In Lemaire's last season (08-09) the power play was at 20.1%. In Richards two seasons, the power play was at 19.1% and 18.1%. In Yeo's first season the power play was at 15.1%. The remainder of Yeos tenure saw the power play at 17.9%, 17.8%, 15.8% (Brunette coached), 18.5% (Brunette coached). The two seasons Boudreau has been at the helm, the power play has clocked in at 21.0% and 20.4%.   I do remember that when the Wild hired Yeo, several Penguins fans came on to the old Wild boards and told us Yeo was going to ruin the power play. We figured it was just sour grapes. But look at what happened to the Penguins power play after Yeo left:   2006 - 20.3% 2007 - 20.4% 2008 - 17.4% 2009 - 17.2% 2010 - 15.8% (Yeo's last season with Penguins) 2011 - 19.7% 2012 - 24.7% 2013 - 23.4%   Interesting how after Yeo leaves two teams, their power play improves dramatically. Two teams with completely different players, yet their power play hangs around 17%-18% when Yeo is in charge. Yeo leaves, and the Power Play climbs to 20%+.
    • 2
      Post
      Yep, we end up 15th or 16th in the league every year "out fu cking standing" and probably top 3 in sales   but one of these years we will get lucky 😥

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