Coyle - Yay or Nay?

[Fargocase]

I like threads like this because it's a record.  Anyone want to post an opinion and a specific prediction for Coyle.   I posted in a previous thread, I'm bullish on him.   Whatever his carreer year stats are, I think he'll beat them this year.  Coyle gets in the right situation and he can be a Beast on the Boards.  But he can't play that role when he's at Center.  This is going to be the year that Coyle makes a step up.  Last year was an aberration due to injury.  

[Fargocase]

Specific numbers - 24G, 40A, 65 pts

[Jimtown guy]

Biggest disappointment on the Wild has to be Chawlie. At times he looks like he’s going to finally be the player that we all think he can be then he disappears for a month. So damn frustrating. I hope you are right Fargo but I’m not holding my breath. 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

I agree a little with each of you guys...
I DO believe Coyle is still capable of more than he has shown, and now, at 26, is the time for him to show he can be a leader by example on the ice.

Putting aside last season, which I also agree was basically a 'throw away' year for him, he HAD be steadily improving his production and upping his confidence to just be more aggressive both physically and on the shot counter on the ice.
Granted, this improvement has been a bit slower than Wild fans and management would have liked, but it has been there, till last year, nonetheless.

I am not sure I fully agree that Coyle is a pure winger only as I thought he played some decent games at Center when asked to in parts of last season and the season before. IMO, playing Center had him more engaged in the action and he didn't have time to second guess anything...he just needed to react.
Of course, playing center involves greater responsibility that, as the theory goes, if removed, can free him up to be the physical beast along the boards Fargo had alluded to.
We will wait n see how he does.

A healthy Charlie Coyle is a pretty nice player on the ice to have. And he DOES need to be with the right linemates and in the right situations as I believe that he is more of a guy who can fly with the eagles, even if he doesn't necessarily elevate other players on his own, himself. Again, that can change this season as he enters his prime years as a grown up NHL player.

I would NOT say he is a "big disappointment", understanding that yes, it was expected that he would advance faster than he has.
I like his steady progression and expect more from him this year....if he plateaus as a consistent 55-65 point player, I think the Wild can be happy with that.
Maybe that doesn't make him top line material (well, on the Wild maybe it does), but at the very least, a very, very good 2nd liner. 
Certainly better than 3rd line material like he had been used last season.

Of course, when you're the guy who was traded for the likes of Brent Burns, and Burnsy took off in San Jose while Coyle was slowly working his way up, it is understandable why the pressure for him to be better is there.

This year could be a very telling one for him though.
Healthy, aged 26, should get prime minutes, he has filled out in his body frame....now he needs to put it all together.

If not, maybe all we really got was a 3rd line guy....
Fingers crossed....

[CreaseAndAssist]

He's a teaser.  You will get some flashes of dominance, but the assertiveness is inconsistent.  He could be a dominating power forward, but he'll settle in to being a perimeter playmaker.  IMO I'm tired of waiting for him to break out.  I think we'll get 16-17 goals and maybe 45-50 points.  

[Razblo]

I think 24-40 is pushing it, but I think he can consistently be a 50ish point player.

 

I agree with @CreaseAndAssist. It is hard to get a good feel for what Coyle can do consistently. Occasionally he plays like a really good power forward (fights, drives to the net, etc.) but other times he looks like he is settling for an outside shot. I recall reading about him playing in a playoff series (against St. Louis?) where he played through 2 separated shoulders. This shows me he has the mentality to be a tough player, but we never see it on a consistent basis. That being said, it is 'funny' how things happen but seeing as next year is his contract year I would expect NEXT year to be the year he's fully healthy and puts up a bunch of points.

 

 

At the end of the regular season I predict he ends up with 20 goals + 30 assists.

[Fargocase]

On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 9:59 PM, Fargocase said:

cSpecific numbers - 24G, 40A, 65 pts

 

Didn't anyone notice that this didn't add up?  

 

I don't disagree with anything anyone has posted here!  Maybe to a small degree - I'm disappointed but I don't consider him a "big" disappointment.   And the disappointment isn't with him being a dud or lazy, IMO he hasn't reached his potential due to injuries and bad coaching.

 

I am convinced his development as a player has been hurt by bouncing back and forth between wing and Center.   He can play either position decently, but I think there's a better future as a RW.

 

At the end of the year, IMO the Wild's team performance will mirror Coyle and Nino's production to a large part.  It's time for those two to break through.

 

Of course, as always, injuries trump everything.

 

 

[rottenrefs]

Coyle played rip-roaring in college, but often pan flat in the NHL. CreaseAndAssist is right, Coyle is a teaser.

 

Comparing him to every other younger player on the team he stands head and shoulders over each of them for various reasons.

1. He has size. Something Zucker and Granlund don't have.

2. He's been spoon fed by the staff and other vets by giving him every opportunity to be on the ice more than others in his age range; aside from Baby Jesus.

3. He and Nino have size over others in their age range. Nino has far better hands and movement right out in front of the net, yet Coyle has always gotten the nod in key situations... And all too damn often the big moose has failed. Instead of creating room for himself on the ice he hides along the boards. His college coach probably wants to kill Brunette for taking his aggressive net crashing ways away from him and turning him into a neutered feline.

4. He checks like a frightened metrosexual. Maybe he's getting laid way too easy and needs to learn to fight for it harder. Maybe he and Brodin are spending too much time together after everyone else leaves the locker room?

 

If he gets crappy production numbers like last year no one will care. Boudreau has already set the table by answering questions of what if's for what's expected out of Coyle this year. Such as can he get 30 goals? He helps the team in other ways so... (or was it Fenton who gave that reply?)

 

Might as well get a fresh supply of knee pads for the staff. Mice or men?

[Davey J]

I voted Nay...based on your (Fargo) predicted numbers.  I think Coyle is what he is and he's a 40-50 point/year guy.  As much as he leaves me wanting/expecting more, getting a 40-50 point/year guy for $3.2 million per who can play center or wing is an absolute bargain!

 

My prediction for him is 18 goals/28 assists for 46 points. 

 

My over/under for the Ek/Greenway/Coyle line (if they stay intact for the majority of the season) is 47 goals.  Place your bets, place your bets!

[Fargocase]

2 hours ago, Davey J said:

 

My over/under for the Ek/Greenway/Coyle line (if they stay intact for the majority of the season) is 47 goals.  Place your bets, place your bets!

 

It is extremely rare for any line to stay together for a full season.  Without a doubt these three guys WON'T be on the same line for the majority of the season IMO.  But we can still do your bet regardless of that.  And, of course injuries trump all...

 

That's a really good number pick.   If injury doesn't void the bet, I say Under.   You have three variables so that makes it much more difficult.   Plus one is a true rookie.  IMO a healthy Coyle will easily surpass 20 goals.   But are EEk and the big rookie both good for an average of 12-13 goals each?  I want to be optimistic, but I say Under.  But just barely under!

[Davey J]

If any of the 3 misses 10 or more games or a combined total of 20+ games missed, the bet is off.

 

You are correct about a line combo sticking together, so let's just call it an over/under bet on the 3 players, regardless of line combos.

[Alexandron]

I am also hoping that Coyle will have more than 20 goals this season if stay healthy. The line Ek-Greenway-Coyle looked pretty good this preseason, and maybe those 2 youngsters will boost(insert) more energy into the Coyle movement too. 

[McMahon 6]

That was a tough vote to cast, mostly because I don't expect much from Coyle in the first place. As other posters have mentioned, he shows signs of being a beast, but then pulls a disappearing act for weeks at a time. In the end, I think he is what is is: ~20 goals, and ~50 total points. Anything more is gravy in my book. Ditto for Nino.

 

Some players that I do see exceeding expectations this year are: Zucker, Granlund and Parise. For no good scientific reason, I see Parise staying surprisingly healthy this year and having a mighty good season. I'm bullish on Greenway too: maybe not right away, but I doubt we'll have to wait 3-4 seasons and listen to the "he's still young" excuse ad nauseum like we do for Dumba. And although he may not rack up big numbers this season, another thing that could exceed expectations is sales of Seeler sweaters.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

1 hour ago, McMahon 6 said:

That was a tough vote to cast, mostly because I don't expect much from Coyle in the first place. As other posters have mentioned, he shows signs of being a beast, but then pulls a disappearing act for weeks at a time. In the end, I think he is what is is: ~20 goals, and ~50 total points. Anything more is gravy in my book. Ditto for Nino.

 

 

Funny you should mention the bolded, because, IMO, Coyle and Nino are, at their best, pretty much the same type of player.

And it was NO surprise when, about two seasons ago, both had good years, the Wild were a very dangerous offensive team with a pretty good forechecking game.

 

Coyle + Nino being aggressive, using their strength and speed, not only means they both have good years, but it opens things up for the other Wild forwards.
If both are healthy and going all out and well, AND on the same line (maybe on either side of Granlund for example), they can be pretty potent.
And before anyone has a titmouse over it, I AM aware Granlund has seen much time at wing, but he still is, IMO, center capable as well if he has dangerous and powerful wingers with him.

Of course, I realize all of this is "maybe, perhaps, or even ain't gonna happen again" type material, but just stating that the potential for some real difference making is there for not only Charlie Coyle, but his relative twin, Nino Niederreiter.
Both are now in their primes and THIS year, no more waiting, is the year both need to put their considerable talents to use for GOOD!
 

[McMahon 6]

On 10/1/2018 at 6:56 PM, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

IMO, Coyle and Nino are, at their best, pretty much the same type of player.

 

Yep, nail on head. One of my secret fantasies is trying to calculate the points that Coyle and Nino could rack up if they'd set up shop in front of the crease, make life miserable for opposing goalies, and feast on deflections and rebounds from linemates.

 

The Wild have an annoying habit - especially on the PP - of passing the puck 36X in search of the perfect goal mouth tap-in, rather than going for dirty greasy goals that count exactly the same on the scoreboard. If guys like Nino, Coyle and Parise would make a habit out of creating mayhem in front of the net, even Suter's 12mph wrist shot becomes a legitimate threat to end up in the net one way or another.

[TheBoogieMan]

My prediction for Coyle's production.....

16 goals 31 assists for 47 points

[Fargocase]

EEk-Greenway-Coyle.    This line could be the best line on the ice tonight.   But they have to be PATIENT!

[puck_hawg]

3 hours ago, Fargocase said:

EEk-Greenway-Coyle.    This line could be the best line on the ice tonight.   But they have to be PATIENT!

They looked overwhelmed tonight, but you could see the potential there. 

[Icechipper]

Coyle was involved. Greenway played on the perimeter, seems to like to play with just one hand on his stick.

 Ek forechecked well. 

[rottenrefs]

Greenway and Ek were more visable than Coyle.

[EJ0226]

I think Coyle has now grown into the role Fletcher and Yeo had for him and is very comfortable in it. He really is just a very fast flash in the pan.

 

The sad part is he has the frame and size to be a guy that can go in and camp in front of the goalie making a living scoring goals there. I could see him being a 35+ goal scorer if he did that but Yeo/Fletch ruined it for him and made it a very big Granlund. He appears to be looking for one of his smaller teammates to do what he should be doing. Unless he starts crashing the net don't expect more than 15 goals from him. On the high end of him playing the same style he has been playing, maybe 22 goals.

[Fargocase]

11 hours ago, puck_hawg said:

They looked overwhelmed tonight, but you could see the potential there. 

 

I thought EEk had a noticeably bad game and Greenway was very ineffective.  Coyle seemed like the only guy on the line getting anything done, or at least trying to, but that he was outnumbered big time by Avs players.

 

IMO very disappointing debut for this line.   For the very little time they were actually out there, that is...

[Fargocase]

Only one game so you can't really draw any grand conclusions but I just looked up TOI for this line.

 

Coyle had 14:44 min Total TOI.   EEK 9:57 and Greenway a team low 7:50.

 

Coyle and EEk had one SH shift together, 1:03 min

 

Coyle also got 2:52 min on the PP; EEk and Greenway none.

 

So EV TOI, a number which I believe is very telling as to who the Coach has faith in or not: 

Coyle 10:49

EEk 8:54

Greenway 7:50

 

Fehr got more EV and Total TOI than EEk and Greenway.   Foligno and Hendricks just slightly less EV TOI compared to EEk.  NOT a good sign IMO!

 

You could say the Wild had two 2nd Lines and two 4th Lines out there.   Tough to win a game with that kind of mix.

[Bear]

never mind

 

[puck_hawg]

3 hours ago, Fargocase said:

 

I thought EEk had a noticeably bad game and Greenway was very ineffective.  Coyle seemed like the only guy on the line getting anything done, or at least trying to, but that he was outnumbered big time by Avs players.

 

IMO very disappointing debut for this line.   For the very little time they were actually out there, that is...

Agree. There was one shift, I believe in the second period, where eek-Coyle-greenway pinned the d behind the net and showed some tenacity. They forced a turnover, but Coyle lost it on the boards and I believe turned into a scoring chance for the Avs. After that shift they saw little ice time. Not sure why, granted Coyle turned it over but so was everyone else. At that stage in the game they were the only line trying to establish zone time. IMO it was a poor decision on BB.