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I know we Hate MacDonald, but...


King Knut

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He's playing even worse than normal and it's quite clear to me that he's a mediocre player, playing hurt and as a result, playing terribly. 

 

He came back 4 WEEKS ahead of schedule... and it shows.  

 

Folin was atrocious as well, so my only question is how exactly is how the HELL is Myers taking some minutes and getting his reps in and inevitably screwing up and learning from it going to be any worse than Mac or Folin have shown us thus far?

 

If it's time for this team to take the step to "better" they have to start taking the step to "better".  Until Mac is healthy and at least his normal not good mediocre at best 3rd pairing Mac-Self, he should not be in the lineup and friggin' Myers should.  

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5 minutes ago, King Knut said:

He's playing even worse than normal and it's quite clear to me that he's a mediocre player, playing hurt and as a result, playing terribly. 

 

He came back 4 WEEKS ahead of schedule... and it shows.  

 

Folin was atrocious as well, so my only question is how exactly is how the HELL is Myers taking some minutes and getting his reps in and inevitably screwing up and learning from it going to be any worse than Mac or Folin have shown us thus far?

 

If it's time for this team to take the step to "better" they have to start taking the step to "better".  Until Mac is healthy and at least his normal not good mediocre at best 3rd pairing Mac-Self, he should not be in the lineup and friggin' Myers should.  

 

I just think they want Meyers to work on his defense down in the AHL and not add pressure to the kid.

 

And yes i get it that Mcturd has looked not so hot and Folin even worse.

 

So i think they think it's best for Phil's development and to let him working on his issues around his own net and learning still when to and when not pinch at a slower rate in the AHL.

 

It's all i can figure is like they did with Sanheim last year to get their confidence back.

 

I'm good with it.

 

What i would like though if they don't like trust Folin then is to cut bait and brind a vet in who can maybe play.

 

A right hand shot vet who i wouldn't mind them signing and who would add some toughness is Kevin Bieksa he is available.

 

Go out and bring him in and cut bait with Folin.

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Agree that MacDonald has been playing worse than his normal standards.  Rushing back was asinine.  I'm not sure he will reach "regular MacDonald" levels this season.  He's probably still hampered by the injury and his play is worsened by the lack of camp.  Just a bad situation.  That said, I'm not sure Myers is a solution at this point.  I'm just not sure it's good to introduce another young player to the NHL when the defense is a bit of a mess.  I kind of feel like it's better for him to get top minutes against AHL competition than to be thrown into this mess.  

 

What they really need(ed) was a solid veteran presence.

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4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I just think they want Meyers to work on his defense down in the AHL and not add pressure to the kid.

 

And yes i get it that Mcturd has looked not so hot and Folin even worse.

 

So i think they think it's best for Phil's development and to let him working on his issues around his own net and learning still when to and when not pinch at a slower rate in the AHL.

 

It's all i can figure is like they did with Sanheim last year to get their confidence back.

 

I'm good with it.

 

What i would like though if they don't like trust Folin then is to cut bait and brind a vet in who can maybe play.

 

A right hand shot vet who i wouldn't mind them signing and who would add some toughness is Kevin Bieksa he is available.

 

Go out and bring him in and cut bait with Folin.

 

 

I'm just saying to utilize Myers' plusses for a few weeks in the hopes that Mac recovers more fully.  As it is, I'm afraid he's going to have a season like Simmer did last year.  And Simmonds playing hurt all year still netted 26 goals.  Mac Playing hurt all year is going to cost this team a ton of games.

 

Make a trade, pull in Bieksa... anyone who can play defense at all better than an injured Mac or Folin can at this point.   I'm fine with that... but something has to be done.  They're in trouble and Mac is a big big big reason why.  

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2 minutes ago, vis said:

Agree that MacDonald has been playing worse than his normal standards.  Rushing back was asinine.  I'm not sure he will reach "regular MacDonald" levels this season.  He's probably still hampered by the injury and his play is worsened by the lack of camp.  Just a bad situation.  That said, I'm not sure Myers is a solution at this point.  I'm just not sure it's good to introduce another young player to the NHL when the defense is a bit of a mess.  I kind of feel like it's better for him to get top minutes against AHL competition than to be thrown into this mess.  

 

What they really need(ed) was a solid veteran presence.

 

2-3 weeks isn't going to destroy Myers' development.  

But if they can make a trade or bring someone in who isn't going to Oduya out on us, then I'm all for it.  Something has to be done.  

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4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I just think they want Meyers to work on his defense down in the AHL and not add pressure to the kid.

 

And yes i get it that Mcturd has looked not so hot and Folin even worse.

 

So i think they think it's best for Phil's development and to let him working on his issues around his own net and learning still when to and when not pinch at a slower rate in the AHL.

 

It's all i can figure is like they did with Sanheim last year to get their confidence back.

 

I'm good with it.

 

What i would like though if they don't like trust Folin then is to cut bait and brind a vet in who can maybe play.

 

A right hand shot vet who i wouldn't mind them signing and who would add some toughness is Kevin Bieksa he is available.

 

Go out and bring him in and cut bait with Folin.

Bieksa can't skate anymore, but I know what you mean.  His demeanor and his type of game would be a nice addition.

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2 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Make a trade, pull in Bieksa.

 

You don't have to make a trade. Just waive Folin.

 

Go sign Bieksa. Problem solved.

 

9 Ivan Provorov - 53 Shayne Gostisbehere
8 Robert Hägg - 3 Radko Gudas 
6 Travis Sanheim - 2 Kevin Bieksa

47 Andrew MacDonald

 

Scratch Mcturd and let him get healthy. Waive Folin.

 

This would be my GM move.

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5 minutes ago, vis said:

Bieksa can't skate anymore, but I know what you mean. 

 

He can handle bottom pair duties still sure he is long in the tooth and slower but he makes up for some of it with solid positioning still.

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If Myers didn't make the team out of camp, I don't think calling him up for 2-3 weeks makes much sense. He'd either have to show he's really mastered the AHL game, or there are significant injuries at the NHL level that leave Hextall with no other choice.

 

I've posted in another thread that there are FEWER than ONE NHL defenseman per team at Sanheim's age (21) or younger. We have two with Sanheim and Provorov. Hagg is the 34th youngest, and then add Myers. We would have FOUR defensemen 23 and under while the average is 1, and this is without the benefit of having a true veteran #1 stabilizing force. Provorov is #1 by default and has excelled in long stretches, but he's looking a bit ragged so far this year.

 

Whether it's youth, low talent level, poor coaching, poor execution, or some kind of sick combination of all of the above, the last thing this team needs right now is more youth on the blueline. It will be a further destabilizing factor for sure. They are a mess right now, and Myers would contribute to the mess, not fix it. 

 

And please don't use Lajoie as an example. Did you see him play? He did more amazing and highly-skilled things in ONE game than I've ever seen Myers do, even against B and C squads in preseason. Just like Ghost did when he was called up. They were clearly ready.

 

Hextall is better off with the status quo or trying to fix it at the NHL level through trade or similar. It sucks for the team and sucks for the fans, but it is what it is. 

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6 minutes ago, brelic said:

If Myers didn't make the team out of camp, I don't think calling him up for 2-3 weeks makes much sense. He'd either have to show he's really mastered the AHL game, or there are significant injuries at the NHL level that leave Hextall with no other choice.

 

I've posted in another thread that there are FEWER than ONE NHL defenseman per team at Sanheim's age (21) or younger. We have two with Sanheim and Provorov. Hagg is the 34th youngest, and then add Myers. We would have FOUR defensemen 23 and under while the average is 1, and this is without the benefit of having a true veteran #1 stabilizing force. Provorov is #1 by default and has excelled in long stretches, but he's looking a bit ragged so far this year.

 

Whether it's youth, low talent level, poor coaching, poor execution, or some kind of sick combination of all of the above, the last thing this team needs right now is more youth on the blueline. It will be a further destabilizing factor for sure. They are a mess right now, and Myers would contribute to the mess, not fix it. 

 

And please don't use Lajoie as an example. Did you see him play? He did more amazing and highly-skilled things in ONE game than I've ever seen Myers do, even against B and C squads in preseason. Just like Ghost did when he was called up. They were clearly ready.

 

Hextall is better off with the status quo or trying to fix it at the NHL level through trade or similar. It sucks for the team and sucks for the fans, but it is what it is. 

 

I would however call Friedman up who is a solid two Dman and should get a look he will 23 this year and has never got a game in the NHL.

 

So yeah I would rather call him up instead of using Folin.

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2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I would however call Friedman up who is a solid two Dman and should get a look he will 23 this year and has never got a game in the NHL.

 

So yeah I would rather call him up instead of using Folin.

 

Sure, he's a bit older, but I'm not sure he'd stabilize the blue line. I don't think the answer is in the AHL at this point.

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12 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Sure, he's a bit older, but I'm not sure he'd stabilize the blue line. I don't think the answer is in the AHL at this point.

 

We don't need him to stabilize the blue line just stabalize the 3rd pair.

 

He and Sanheim have played together before.

 

He can play 10-12 minutes and he is a good two way option.

 

Not sure if he is better than Folin but it is worth a look. This is the last year he is waiver exempt.

 

So if not now then when?

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2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

We don't need him to stabilize the blue line just stabalize the 3rd pair.

 

He and Sanheim have played together before.

 

He can play 10-12 minutes and he is a good two way option.

 

Not sure if he is better than Folin but it is worth a look. This is the last year he is waiver exempt.

 

So if not now then when?

 

I know what you're saying, and I'm not opposed to Friedman. I'm just thinking Hextall needs to explore a more permanent and long term solution. Maybe that involves upgrading by moving Gudas or AMac in a package for a defenseman that is closer to a #2/#3, which isn't cheap.

 

I hear Shattenkirk was a healthy scratch the other night. Not sure if he's 'a viable option, but the Rangers might be willing to downgrade if they're tanking for Hughes. He's coming off injury and his value is low at this point.

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5 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

I know what you're saying, and I'm not opposed to Friedman. I'm just thinking Hextall needs to explore a more permanent and long term solution. Maybe that involves upgrading by moving Gudas or AMac in a package for a defenseman that is closer to a #2/#3, which isn't cheap.

 

I hear Shattenkirk was a healthy scratch the other night. Not sure if he's 'a viable option, but the Rangers might be willing to downgrade if they're tanking for Hughes. He's coming off injury and his value is low at this point.

 

But moving an injured Mcturd would be hard.

 

Moving a healthy one is hard enough.

 

And can't see how moving Gudas would help a gimpy Mcturd.

 

I would be open to like I posted earlier to waiving Folin and signing Bieksa to steady the bottom pair while Mcdud heals.

 

Bieksa would be a solid 7 upgrade I think.

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4 hours ago, King Knut said:

2-3 weeks isn't going to destroy Myers' development.   

 

1 hour ago, brelic said:

If Myers didn't make the team out of camp, I don't think calling him up for 2-3 weeks makes much sense.

...

Hextall is better off with the status quo or trying to fix it at the NHL level through trade or similar. It sucks for the team and sucks for the fans, but it is what it is. 

 

Agree with @brelic here.  They need a longer term solution.  Plus, I don't think Myers getting a couple of weeks action really helps the team much.  I wouldn't mind seeing one of the more seasoned d-men on the Phantoms get some interim action.  But let's leave Myers to develop in the AHL, unless he has truly shown that he's NHL ready and taking someone's job (which, at this point, I don't think he has).  

 

Despite our opinions, I also don't think it's like the Flyers to call up someone to replace MacDonald.  I think they will just let him play through it.  I think they're loyal, to a fault, to the vets.

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24 minutes ago, vis said:

 

 

 

Agree with @brelic here.  They need a longer term solution.  Plus, I don't think Myers getting a couple of weeks action really helps the team much.  I wouldn't mind seeing one of the more seasoned d-men on the Phantoms get some interim action.  But let's leave Myers to develop in the AHL, unless he has truly shown that he's NHL ready and taking someone's job (which, at this point, I don't think he has).  

 

Despite our opinions, I also don't think it's like the Flyers to call up someone to replace MacDonald.  I think they will just let him play through it.  I think they're loyal, to a fault, to the vets.

 

 

If Mac is hurt (and he doesn’t look healthy), they need to sit him regardless of the A on his jersey or his locker room presence or his tenure. They sent him to the AHL a few years ago because of contract reasons and because he wasn’t good enough.  They’ll do it again if he needs time to recover or get in shape. Hextall just need to make the call, because Mac won’t do it for them. 

 

He can come back when he’s in shape.  But right now he just ain’t. 

 

The more seasoned D Men in LV aren’t as talented.  An unseasoned Myers can do more to help this team now than a seasoned Friedman or an overcooked Brennan. 

 

Myers didn’t make it out of camp because he didn’t consistently outplay Gudas and Hagg and he went to LV to work on that consistency.  Folin was ever only going to be the fill in guy. If they needed a 6 instead of a 7, Myers probably would have made it. 

 

Of of course we saw what Hak did with Sanny and ManDog last year, so even if hexy pulled the trigger, Hak might not. 

 

Right now, both Mac and Folin look like minor leaguers. At least Myers can get better with minutes.  Mac looks like he needs time off to recover / get in shape and Folin looks lost and they’re likely not giving us better than a green as the grass Myers. 

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1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

I know what you're saying, and I'm not opposed to Friedman. I'm just thinking Hextall needs to explore a more permanent and long term solution. Maybe that involves upgrading by moving Gudas or AMac in a package for a defenseman that is closer to a #2/#3, which isn't cheap.

 

I hear Shattenkirk was a healthy scratch the other night. Not sure if he's 'a viable option, but the Rangers might be willing to downgrade if they're tanking for Hughes. He's coming off injury and his value is low at this point.

 

If Shatty is a healthy scratch, it’s likely because they’re shopping him already.  

 

I’d make that trade in a heartbeat, but not with the rangers.  Don’t need to send a divisional rival a 1sr rounder. 

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2 hours ago, brelic said:

 

I know what you're saying, and I'm not opposed to Friedman. I'm just thinking Hextall needs to explore a more permanent and long term solution. Maybe that involves upgrading by moving Gudas or AMac in a package for a defenseman that is closer to a #2/#3, which isn't cheap.

 

I hear Shattenkirk was a healthy scratch the other night. Not sure if he's 'a viable option, but the Rangers might be willing to downgrade if they're tanking for Hughes. He's coming off injury and his value is low at this point.

If you're looking to shore up defense, Shattenkirk is the very last person to call. It's like hiring Jesse James because you have an inventory problem. 

 

Shattenkirk is a horrible defenseman. He's the last person you want the kids learning from. 

 

And I don't think we need long term.  We need someone to spell MacDonald until he's actually healthy. I'm okay with Friedman for a month until MacDonald is actually healthy. He's worthless as is but serviceable on the 2nd or 3rd pair if permitted to heal. 

 

I wouldn't clog up the works with another veteran contact. We have the cap room for a rental at the deadline if it's necessary, but otherwise I wouldn't. 

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2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Hhhhmmmmm not sure about Shatty.

 

If they would take Wiese and a scrub back I might think about it.

 

He is on the books for 3 years at 6.5 mill though.

No way in a million years I'd spend the change in my pocket on Shatty. 

 

He has proven in new york quite clearly why St Louis was willing to move him. He's a power play specialist. Period. And we don't need that. 

 

He has absolutely nothing else to offer. 

 

Really like your premise that we really just need a temporary substitute to get MacDonald healed.   If he's still a problem then consider other options.  

 

You're also right that moving Gudas doesn't help a gimpy MacDonald. 

 

We do not need long term, and we certainly don't need Shattenkirk. 

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1 hour ago, vis said:

 

 

 

Agree with @brelic here.  They need a longer term solution.  Plus, I don't think Myers getting a couple of weeks action really helps the team much.  I wouldn't mind seeing one of the more seasoned d-men on the Phantoms get some interim action.  But let's leave Myers to develop in the AHL, unless he has truly shown that he's NHL ready and taking someone's job (which, at this point, I don't think he has).  

 

Despite our opinions, I also don't think it's like the Flyers to call up someone to replace MacDonald.  I think they will just let him play through it.  I think they're loyal, to a fault, to the vets.

I don't think it's replacing or about loyalty, though the Flyers may see it that way. It's shelving him because he's clearly not well. IR him and let him go through the correct process this time. 

 

Oh, and fire the trainers. 

 

Myers could fill in for that period as he's arguably the first injury call up. Unless it's Friedman, which is fine with me. 

 

But as far as Meyers goes, he gets some NHL experience, is as bad as MacDonald and goes back down when the latter is healthy. 

 

Best case, he shows he's ready and then you have a decision to make. I think the former is more likely than the latter. 

 

Same with Friedman.  But there's no way either is worse than an injured MacDonald. 

 

If you let Mac get well, things will settle down. Right now, he's a horrible liability. 

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1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

If Shatty is a healthy scratch, it’s likely because they’re shopping him already.  

 

I’d make that trade in a heartbeat, but not with the rangers.  Don’t need to send a divisional rival a 1sr rounder. 

What about Shatty's game would cause you to waste a heartbeat? 

 

He can't defend. Presumably, we want to shore up defense, not go get a ridiculously overpaid one trick pony who's no longer as good at his one trick. 

 

It's more likely that he's a healthy scratch to wake him up. He's a defensive liability. 

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1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

What about Shatty's game would cause you to waste a heartbeat? 

 

He can't defend. Presumably, we want to shore up defense, not go get a ridiculously overpaid one trick pony who's no longer as good at his one trick. 

 

It's more likely that he's a healthy scratch to wake him up. He's a defensive liability. 

 

Pair him with Gudas or Hagg and Sanheim with the other and suddenly you have balanced lines. Puck mover/ hitting positioning player.  Balance they do not have until Myers is ready and is hurting them. 

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9 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Pair him with Gudas or Hagg and Sanheim with the other and suddenly you have balanced lines. Puck mover/ hitting positioning player.  Balance they do not have until Myers is ready and is hurting them. 

I wouldn't do that in a million years.

 

He's entirely worthless and paid way too much for that status.

 

He's not even close to remotely what this team needs.  He's a power play specialist who has been consistently a negative player for several years.  We have Ghost and Provorov for the power play units, so the only possible benefit Shatty provides is not need here.   He was hidden/covered by Pietrangelo for years.  We don't have a Pietrangelo here.  And he really isn't a very good puck mover.  He's a PP specialist.

 

Hard pass.   Hextall should be fired instantly if he did that.   This board would universally hate him before the season was over.  So would our goalies.

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