OccamsRazor Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 33 minutes ago, brelic said: I think this is the beginning of the end for Hak. When the coach calls out his players to #sackup, and they respond with their worst effort of the season at home, losing 6-1, it’s over folks. Thye look completely lifeless. Yep. They looked sackless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 OMG ... WTF .... glad I missed the game due to working. I guess I might as well delete off my DVR without even watching it. Based on all the comments I have been reading I guess it was pretty bad. Hak has to go .... Right ??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 13 minutes ago, brelic said: The media has turned on Hak. Blood is in the water... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Well here are the updated standings ... folks it is looking to be a long season. The Flyers have the 3rd worst goal differential in the league ... let that sink in for a moment... EDIT: The Flyers have given up a league worst 46 goals ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 2 hours ago, csummers said: But but but...they made all the right moves. Funny checkin in once in a while to see people finally starting to see this mess for what it is. Most flyer fans have seen it for a while, they just dont post on here because this is just a cheering section usually although it is a good sign to see some starting to question the unquestionable. I been following this team for 40+ years now. I don't see all the game film, I don't see all the scouting reports and I certainly don't try to come across as knowing everything. With that being said, we all have to be patient with the process the first year or two. I am going to give some benefit of the doubt for those professionals that know more than I do. However...what I do expect to see is progress being made and this team moving forward which it is not. And for the record many of us on here are not all rah, rah cheering blindly on. There have been many that have been questioning moves going back to last year, but that dosen't mean we can't hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, pilldoc said: I been following this team for 40+ years now. I don't see all the game film, I don't see all the scouting reports and I certainly don't try to come across as knowing everything. With that being said, we all have to have to patient patient with the process the first year or two. I am going to give some benefit of the doubt for those professionals that know more than I do. However...what I do expect to see is progress being made and this team moving forward which it is not. And for the record many of us on here are not all rah, rah cheering blindly on. There have been many that have been questioning moves going back to last year, but that dosen't mean we can't hope for the best. Yeah, I think many have been questioning moves out of the gate. Umberger, Weise, Weal, etc. Hiring and/or keeping Hakstol or several of the assistants. But when a person checks in periodically to advocate for pointless bobbleheaded crap that hasn't worked in 40 years (since Allen left, actually), then they can check in here less often and keep talking to the "many Flyers fans" morons, apparently saying mindless stupid stuff on Facebook. This place is hardly rah rah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuckMeister Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Players are told to "sack up" and me thinks the GM should do so post haste. It's difficult to admit a mistake for many but Hex needs to admit Hak was a mistake, or at the very least the decision to hire him didn't work out. Keeping Lappy on to run the PK has been monumentally bad. If we have to start over, then by God do it. This team needs a coach like Torts to put some fire in the players gut. Same effort game after game. What is it that other teams have that we don't? Boston, Rangers, Tampa Bay, and even Florida can ice more talent. Why, could it be the front office experts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 https://twitter.com/CRicchini/status/1056268384772546560?s=09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 30 minutes ago, ruxpin said: https://twitter.com/CRicchini/status/1056268384772546560?s=09 Omg.... too funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poulin20 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Yep. They looked sackless. Understatement of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 8 hours ago, Hockey-78 said: This is too funny; the only guy scoring for the Flyers taking all the crap from fans - unreal! Yep. Lehtera unassisted. And speaking assists or a lack of assists among the Flyers centers... Couturier 0 assists in 11 games Patrick 0 assists in 8 games Vorobyev 1 assist in 7 games Knight 0 assists in 3 games Lehtera 1 assist in 11 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 38 minutes ago, hf101 said: Yep. Lehtera unassisted. And speaking assists or a lack of assists among the Flyers centers... Couturier 0 assists in 11 games Patrick 0 assists in 8 games Vorobyev 1 assist in 7 games Knight 0 assists in 3 games Lehtera 1 assist in 11 games Guess you have to score in order to get an assist......oh that's right....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Ordinarily, I’d lay some blame on the players for running another coach out of town, but really this is Hakstol’s mess. His teams have played emotionless, safe, perimeter hockey with no discernible improvement over the course of his tenure. The PK has been and remains a complete disaster (and after the coaches supposedly “studied” it over summer). He has sucked and sort of grit or aggression out of their game. They played today like they want him gone. That said, they are heading on a long road trip. I kind of doubt they do anything to the coach until after the trip. It’s just sad what this team has become. I remember hearing about how Dave Hakstol’s teams play hard. Dave Hakstol is intense. You never want to get “the look” from him. Welp, absolutely none of that has been the case. Yes, I do think players share blame here. By no means am I happy with the vets in particular. And I’m not happy with the GM either. But I am most unhappy with the coach. I’m tired of him. And it looks like the players are as well. Question is whether the GM is tired yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 41 minutes ago, hf101 said: Yep. Lehtera unassisted. And speaking assists or a lack of assists among the Flyers centers... Couturier 0 assists in 11 games Patrick 0 assists in 8 games Vorobyev 1 assist in 7 games Knight 0 assists in 3 games Lehtera 1 assist in 11 games Hextall should have addressed the 3rd center in the off-season. Major fail. That said, they are getting absolutely nothing from Couturier or Patrick. Zero. I don’t know if Couturier is hurt still, but he’s just not good in any facet of the game. Patrick is starting to worry me a little. Was hoping for more production and a big step forward. He hasn’t taken it. Also, someone needs to convince me Lindblom is a legit NHL player. I’m still not seeing anything in particular that he does well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 13 hours ago, csummers said: But but but...they made all the right moves. Funny checkin in once in a while to see people finally starting to see this mess for what it is. Most flyer fans have seen it for a while, they just dont post on here because this is just a cheering section usually although it is a good sign to see some starting to question the unquestionable. A cheering section? I think most people on here call a spade a spade. Sure we all have certain players we may cut a bit more slack to, but that certainly doesn't apply to any one specific player. I'd say this is the 3rd season I've been hearing calls for Hakstols head on here. Complaining about Flyer goaltending predates the internet. So I'm not sure what you're talking about...not on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Complaining about Flyer goaltending predates the internet Gutenberg's printing press. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 6 hours ago, vis said: Ordinarily, I’d lay some blame on the players for running another coach out of town, but really this is Hakstol’s mess. His teams have played emotionless, safe, perimeter hockey with no discernible improvement over the course of his tenure. The PK has been and remains a complete disaster (and after the coaches supposedly “studied” it over summer). He has sucked and sort of grit or aggression out of their game. They played today like they want him gone. That said, they are heading on a long road trip. I kind of doubt they do anything to the coach until after the trip. It’s just sad what this team has become. I remember hearing about how Dave Hakstol’s teams play hard. Dave Hakstol is intense. You never want to get “the look” from him. Welp, absolutely none of that has been the case. Yes, I do think players share blame here. By no means am I happy with the vets in particular. And I’m not happy with the GM either. But I am most unhappy with the coach. I’m tired of him. And it looks like the players are as well. Question is whether the GM is tired yet. I've been as patient with Hakstol as anyone (though I've never rah-rahed him) but it's way past midnight on this pumpkin. I have no problem watching a team rebuild. I'm happy with the depth Hextall has built up in the prospects...maybe not so much with his actual big team but that also has to do with patience. But the way the team plays is just plain boring as hell. And yes, they have given up completely on their coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: So I'm not sure what you're talking about Don't feel bad. He isn't either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 8 hours ago, hf101 said: Yep. Lehtera unassisted. And speaking assists or a lack of assists among the Flyers centers... Couturier 0 assists in 11 games Patrick 0 assists in 8 games Vorobyev 1 assist in 7 games Knight 0 assists in 3 games Lehtera 1 assist in 11 games I mean, it can happen by accident, but generally speaking, you have to be able to complete a pass to get an assist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Wait. Yesterday's game was how they played after the coach publicly challenged them to play up to a better standard? If so, it sounds like he's lost the room. My takeaways from the game. -The Flyers defense were leaving gaps which were too large and allowed for easy controlled zone entries for the Isles. The D backed way off, and NY simply walked in the puck when they wanted to. A more aggressive setup with a trailing forward to pressure from behind would produce a lot more dump-ins (if not outright entry denials) which is what you want. Generally, that's coaching, either by design or because the players don't follow instructions. -PHI really struggles to get into the home plate area for scoring chances. The Lehtera goal was scored from there, and was the result of a pure giveaway. Look a this heatmap generated from shot attempts yesterday: the Isles generated lots of scoring chances from the danger spots, and the Flyers were light in that department. I obviously don't follow the team as much as you guys, but is it a fairly common habit for the team, when they trail, to just start ripping pucks from any old place? I saw harmless shot after another. -I thought that Provorov looked terrific out there. The coach buried him with difficult zone starts, but the puck consistently moved in the right direction. Was in on about 5 or 6 scoring chances. The Flyers were scored on twice while he was out there, but he allowed nothing in terms of high danger chances by my eye, and wasn't materially to blame for what went in. VERY nice young player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: Wait. Yesterday's game was how they played after the coach publicly challenged them to play up to a better standard? If so, it sounds like he's lost the room. My takeaways from the game. -The Flyers defense were leaving gaps which were too large and allowed for easy controlled zone entries for the Isles. The D backed way off, and NY simply walked in the puck when they wanted to. A more aggressive setup with a trailing forward to pressure from behind would produce a lot more dump-ins (if not outright entry denials) which is what you want. Generally, that's coaching, either by design or because the players don't follow instructions. -PHI really struggles to get into the home plate area for scoring chances. The Lehtera goal was scored from there, and was the result of a pure giveaway. Look a this heatmap generated from shot attempts yesterday: the Isles generated lots of scoring chances from the danger spots, and the Flyers were light in that department. I obviously don't follow the team as much as you guys, but is it a fairly common habit for the team, when they trail, to just start ripping pucks from any old place? I saw harmless shot after another. -I thought that Provorov looked terrific out there. The coach buried him with difficult zone starts, but the puck consistently moved in the right direction. Was in on about 5 or 6 scoring chances. The Flyers were scored on twice while he was out there, but he allowed nothing in terms of high danger chances by my eye, and wasn't materially to blame for what went in. VERY nice young player. Thank you for this. That is actually pretty descriptive of the entire season so far, not just the game. Provorov, for whatever reason (possibly pairing, because Ghost hasn't looked good), started the season not himself but has come around. The rest is very descriptive not just of the Islanders game but of the season in general. The bolded: It's not just when they trail. They just do that so far. And it IS coaching. Whether it's the sagging back and allowing easy zone entry or the perimeter shooting, etc., the lack of challenge on the PK, the perimeter passing and lack of intensity on the PP, this coach has them playing entirely too passive. In every aspect. Maybe message isn't getting through, but that's still on him. But I doubt that's actually the problem. It is so universal and permeates every aspect of their game regardless of who is in the lineup that you have to believe it is by design. Because you look around at the successful teams in the league and it's clear that passive wins the day and that half-court offenses rather than pressure-speed offenses is what is commonly successful. [/sarcasm][/dripping] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 1 hour ago, ruxpin said: Thank you for this. That is actually pretty descriptive of the entire season so far, not just the game. Provorov, for whatever reason (possibly pairing, because Ghost hasn't looked good), started the season not himself but has come around. The rest is very descriptive not just of the Islanders game but of the season in general. The bolded: It's not just when they trail. They just do that so far. And it IS coaching. Whether it's the sagging back and allowing easy zone entry or the perimeter shooting, etc., the lack of challenge on the PK, the perimeter passing and lack of intensity on the PP, this coach has them playing entirely too passive. In every aspect. Maybe message isn't getting through, but that's still on him. But I doubt that's actually the problem. It is so universal and permeates every aspect of their game regardless of who is in the lineup that you have to believe it is by design. Because you look around at the successful teams in the league and it's clear that passive wins the day and that half-court offenses rather than pressure-speed offenses is what is commonly successful. [/sarcasm][/dripping] I attempted some positivity in the discord chat yesterday, but dug a little bit more. Unfortunately, the Flyers are 27th in Expected Goals For%, which is a pretty good proxy for how much we should expect a team to win. I'm not what I would call an expert on the team, but by and large it seems less roster to me, and more like coaching/strategy from what I can see. -They shoot a lot, but not from dangerous areas. Pumps Corsi but depresses actual scoring chances. -They surrender a lot from home plate. Bad news. -Quite a bit of talk this would die down if they could get a save. BUT... The SV% would be higher if they weren't giving up ten bell chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 19 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: I attempted some positivity in the discord chat yesterday, but dug a little bit more. Unfortunately, the Flyers are 27th in Expected Goals For%, which is a pretty good proxy for how much we should expect a team to win. I'm not what I would call an expert on the team, but by and large it seems less roster to me, and more like coaching/strategy from what I can see. -They shoot a lot, but not from dangerous areas. Pumps Corsi but depresses actual scoring chances. -They surrender a lot from home plate. Bad news. -Quite a bit of talk this would die down if they could get a save. BUT... The SV% would be higher if they weren't giving up ten bell chances. That is exactly it JR. This team has no confidence in their goaltending. They routinely get behind early and are chasing the game. The forwards cheat and play a peripheral game with an onslaught of random shots hoping one may trickle in, most of these are coming from the defense at the blue line. There is no puck control up front. All but the 4th line give up on the puck battles early for fear of being out of a defensive position for the fear of the opposition bringing the puck up the ice to score on their goaltender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, hf101 said: That is exactly it JR. This team has no confidence in their goaltending. They routinely get behind early and are chasing the game. The forwards cheat and play a peripheral game with an onslaught of random shots hoping one may trickle in, most of these are coming from the defense at the blue line. There is no puck control up front. All but the 4th line give up on the puck battles early for fear of being out of a defensive position for the fear of the opposition bringing the puck up the ice to score on their goaltender. This is all true and a fairly good assessment. But that doesn't explain the fumble bumble in the defensive end on plays in which they are NOT being challenged. There were repeated plays yesterday where the Islanders were off on a change and not one Isle forechecker in the TV shot. Free exit of the zone, right? No. Couldn't stickhandle, couldn't pass. Couldn't--or wouldn't--do even the most basic and fundamental of plays without any opposition in the vicinity. It was an utterly pathetic display. We've seen all these players play to a better level. So it begs the question: what gives? Yeah, the goaltending is horrific. You have to point a finger at Hextall for that (I'll leave it to you which finger). And that does go toward confidence and what you describe above. That's valid. But it seems there's something much more dire going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Yeah, the goaltending is horrific. You have to point a finger at Hextall for that (I'll leave it to you which finger). And that does go toward confidence and what you describe above. That's valid. But it seems there's something much more dire going on. 1 Yeah, I pretty much summed that up in my other post on your topic. I do think the players want a different coach which is what happened last season too until Hextall stated that Hakstol wasn't going anywhere. The players were forced to play a better game. This team is a one trick pony. Get the puck to Ghost for a shot at the Blueline. Rinse ... repeat. The Leadership on this team is all wrong. When's the last time we saw Giroux take the puck to the net not via a shootout? When's the last time we heard that was a smart play by Voracek? and when was the last time we heard McDonald really has led the defense in this game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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