Game 11: Islanders at Flyers, 10/27 @ 1

[pilldoc]

11 minutes ago, hf101 said:

smart play by Voracek?

 

now there is an oxymoron for you .... surely you jest.  (just kidding ... I understand your point)

 

Again I totally agree with the points you are making.  Sadly there are but a few handful of us who understand the absolute stench coming from the Wells Fargo Center (or what ever the current name is).   Many fans (especially those on FB whom I avoid like the plague) ..say ...but..but. ..but you can't trade G..he had a career year last year.  Or you can't trade Jake because _______________ (fill in the blank). 

 

While I'm not advocating direct trades right now, but HF I think you hit the nail on the hit.  There is a lack of leadership and accountably throughout this ENTIRE organization.  That needs to be solved first before this team moves forward......

[JR Ewing]

48 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

This is all true and a fairly good assessment.

 

But that doesn't explain the fumble bumble in the defensive end on plays in which they are NOT being challenged.  There were repeated plays yesterday where the Islanders were off on a change and not one Isle forechecker in the TV shot.   Free exit of the zone, right?  No.  Couldn't stickhandle, couldn't pass.  Couldn't--or wouldn't--do even the most basic and fundamental of plays without any opposition in the vicinity.  It was an utterly pathetic display.   We've seen all these players play to a better level.  So it begs the question:  what gives?

 

Yeah, the goaltending is horrific.  You have to point a finger at Hextall for that (I'll leave it to you which finger).   And that does go toward confidence and what you describe above.  That's valid.  But it seems there's something much more dire going on.

 

That's the sort of thing that can happen when you're clenching so hard your sphincter could turn carbon into diamonds. I watched the Oilers do that when they had a truly bad coach in Dallas Eakins. Who knows what's going on behind the scenes in Philly, other than that it's not happy-fun-time these days?

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, pilldoc said:

There is a lack of leadership and accountably throughout this ENTIRE organization. 

 

 

Forget about this guy where the C right now.

 

I would say hands down he is the best player on the team. Period.

 

There are a lot of great players on this team but Giroux is the best guy on the team without doubt i think.

 

The problem now is he isn't playing like the best player on the team.

 

They need so bad the return of 102 point Claude Giroux. Find that guy first.

 

When you do have him lead by example and maybe just maybe the rest of the team follows suit.

 

Till then they will continue their tail spin....

[ruxpin]

3 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

Yeah, I pretty much summed that up in my other post on your topic.   I do think the players want a different coach which is what happened last season too until Hextall stated that Hakstol wasn't going anywhere.  The players were forced to play a better game.   This team is a one trick pony.  Get the puck to Ghost for a shot at the Blueline.  Rinse ... repeat.

 

The Leadership on this team is all wrong.  When's the last time we saw Giroux take the puck to the net not via a shootout?   When's the last time we heard that was a smart play by Voracek? and when was the last time we heard McDonald really has led the defense in this game?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm with @pilldoc.

 

It's hard to argue with any of that.  The answer to all the questions in the second paragraph seems like the answer to "when was the last time you saw a live dinosaur?"

 

The leadership is definitely all wrong.  At this point, given that if you remove Giroux, Voracek, and MacDonald from the equation (I know you're not advocating all), then what do you have left in terms of veteran leadership?

 

Simmonds?  I'm okay with that.   Coots?  He may have learned from the wrong people.  Maybe not.   Lehtera, Weise?  Okay, now we're getting silly.

 

I don't know how to answer my questions any better than I can answer yours.

 

But even you have said that the players/team somehow got it together last year.  So it's there.

 

But the approach to both the power play and the penalty kill is wrong.  Simply wrong in today's game.   We have people who should be able to pull off some of the things we see other teams do, but it's not happening.  The structure of everything the team is doing is wrong.   The emphasis here on structure.   From the special teams to 5v5, nothing.   On special teams and 5v5 the pressure is not there.  It's perimeter and passive in all aspects.

 

Some of that is goaltending and lack of confidence they can pressure because the backside is left open.  I get that.

 

But when you have all of that, add in an utterly stupid "leader" in Voracek and that given the bumbling and fumbling we saw yesterday o simple time-killing unchallenged plays (how hard is it to skate or pass to your own blue line when the other team is making a wholesale change at the other end?) it is clear the team has checked out on the static nothing coming from the head coach...it's time for a major change.

 

Sending Vorobyov down and bringing RAK and Goulbourne up is not an answer.  It's changing the candles while the house burns.   Vorobyov is actually a great case study.    He played brilliantly --yes brilliantly--in preseason.  He is less than a shadow of that now.  My guess is he's terrified of making a mistake.   Some of that is the goaltending.   The rest is exactly what has happened.  Bench time and now sent down.  Because a rookie made some mistakes.  Gasp!  That amost never happens!

 

If our erstwhile out-of-his-league coach was sent packing every time he made a mistake, he'd be the  most popular gym teacher at Sioux City High  School by now.

 

Now, it's RAK's turn to have his career and confidence completely shot to hell by this furled-brow empty vessel of a pathetic excuse for an NHL head coach.   Goulbourne's NHL career won't be ruined.  He has no future NHL career.  The fact he's coming up is an indictment on the GM. 

 

If you're trading Voracek, there better be more than prospects/picks coming back.  I don't know who, but get a middle-pair veteran defenseman plus something at the very least.

 

Or once and for all tank for Hughes and gut the top--but do it with a new coach.   I don't know whether Sutter, Vaigneault, Blysma (I'm gonna puke), or one of the Detroit, St. Louis, or Buffalo coaches that are soon fired.   I have no interest in the last bunch, personally.  Yeo couldn't get it done with the cast in Minny or St. Louis, I highly doubt he'd be capable of doing anything with this s###show.

 

But get a coach that believes in attacking the puck.  One that has a PP coach whose entire plan is "fire from the point and hope to hell it hits something."  One that holds his PK coach accountable.  We've changed personnel on that PK multiple times.  We still sag.  We still don't challenge.  We still end up with two defensemen--regardless of who they are--on the same side of the net covering the same guy while two other opponent forwards finish their sandwich and beer while taunting our hapless goalie du jour.

 

For the love of God, someone--anyone--who doesn't just stand there with his furled brow and his hands in his pockets saying in Barberesque monotone,  "try stupidity harder!"  

 

 

[ruxpin]

36 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

They need so bad the return of 102 point Claude Giroux. Find that guy first.

 

I agree, but I also think part of the problem is they don't have the Coots or the Konecny that they had last year either.  Maybe Giroux first.  I don't know.   

 

Maybe you're right, light his fire and the rest follow suit.  But I can't help thinking it's deeper than that.

[pilldoc]

19 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Forget about this guy where the C right now.

 

I would say hands down he is the best player on the team. Period.

 

There are a lot of great players on this team but Giroux is the best guy on the team without doubt i think.

 

The problem now is he isn't playing like the best player on the team.

 

They need so bad the return of 102 point Claude Giroux. Find that guy first.

 

When you do have him lead by example and maybe just maybe the rest of the team follows suit.

 

Till then they will continue their tail spin....

 

But here is the thing OC, how often has that guy really appeared?  Lets look at his stats listed below.

 

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	GP	G	A	PTS	S%
2007-08	20	PHI	NHL	2	0	0	0	0
2008-09	21	PHI	NHL	42	9	18	27	13.4
2009-10	22	PHI	NHL	82	16	31	47	11
2010-11	23	PHI	NHL	82	25	51	76	14.8
2011-12	24	PHI	NHL	77	28	65	93	11.6
2012-13	25	PHI	NHL	48	13	35	48	9.5
2013-14	26	PHI	NHL	82	28	58	86	12.6
2014-15	27	PHI	NHL	81	25	48	73	9
2015-16	28	PHI	NHL	78	22	45	67	9.1
2016-17	29	PHI	NHL	82	14	44	58	7
2017-18	30	PHI	NHL	82	34	68	102	17.6
2018-19	31	PHI	NHL	11	3	8	11	7.5
Career		12 Seasons	NHL	749	217	471	688	11.2

 

 

Let's be honest here how many truly "superstar" like seasons has he truly had.  I'm not arguing that he isn't a star player. He is, but he is jus not in the Tavres / Stamkos / Crosby / Ovie / McDavid realm.  We joke that as Giroux goes so goes the Flyers. 

 

Look at the stats.  He accumulated 102 PTS last year while shooting above his CSH%  He got to 93 PT in 11/12 because of Jagr.  Matter of fact he was trending down for 3 years straight.   So the question has got be to be asked, how great is Giroux in relation to other super starts of the league.  Other Captains in the league strap their team to their backs and carry them.  When has Giroux really recently taken over a game or stretch of games.  Do not get me wrong I am not insinuating that Giroux is an average player.  I'm not.  I'm just pointing out that there are many times that our captain goes AWOL and not just on the stat sheet.  I'm also just merely suggesting that do you want a Captain of your team who disappears when the going gets tough.

 

Another question that gets begs to be asked is why is  SH% below is CSH% 3 out of the 4 past years?  Any yes I acknowledge his injury the other year played a significant part. 

 

Please realize I am playing devils' advocate here....  Also you mentioned that out best player is not playing like the team's best player.  So the question also begs to be asked...Why?  Outside of last year he certainly is far from being the best player in recent memory ...... 

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I agree, but I also think part of the problem is they don't have the Coots or the Konecny that they had last year either. 

 

Sure but G is the catalyst that makes this team go who makes TK and Coots better....or in my opinion i think he does.

 

I think the team feeds off him and right now he isn't the guy we saw last year. So which comes first the chicken or the egg??

 

I think it's Giroux...

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, pilldoc said:

But here is the thing OC, how often has that guy really appeared? 

 

I don't think that matters they had crappy goaltending and issues with youth last year....and it wasn't just him.

 

I mean Jake was key in getting some of that production from the 2nd line too. But it starts with G.

[ruxpin]

8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I don't think that matters they had crappy goaltending and issues with youth last year....and it wasn't just him.

 

I mean Jake was key in getting some of that production from the 2nd line too. But it starts with G.

 

Yeah. 

 

Then trade G and remove that blanket.

[ruxpin]

10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I don't think that matters they had crappy goaltending and issues with youth last year....and it wasn't just him.

 

I mean Jake was key in getting some of that production from the 2nd line too. But it starts with G.

 

You notice they dropped Vorobyov and neither of the replacements were centers?

 

What do you bet we see Giroux back at center and Coots and Patrick moved down a line.

[OccamsRazor]

Just now, ruxpin said:

 

Yeah. 

 

Then trade G and remove that blanket.

 

No but i would move Jake out.

 

For real.

 

He is coming off a 80+ point season and can be moved....just do it the club is deepest at RW.

 

Sure they don't have a proven guy like Jake yet but i move him just tired of the stuff i keep seeing from him.

 

Someone might take that trade...

[OccamsRazor]

Just now, ruxpin said:

 

You notice they dropped Vorobyov and neither of the replacements were centers?

 

What do you bet we see Giroux back at center and Coots and Patrick moved down a line.

 

No they will put Weal back in......i know it.

[ruxpin]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

 

No they will put Weal back in......i know it.

 

I hope you're wrong but know you're right.

[mojo1917]

22 hours ago, csummers said:

But but but...they made all the right moves. Funny checkin in once in a while to see people finally starting to see this mess for what it is.

Most flyer fans have seen it for a while, they just dont post on here because this is just a cheering section usually although it is a good sign to see some starting to question the unquestionable. 

 Feel free to stay away then...

 Since you check in so often, you know exactly what everybody's been saying? 

Exactly no one has missed your insight.

[csummers]

Sure change the coach because they are losing. I get it, I would be glad if they did, I am not a fan but I see it for what it is. He is far from the issue and doing that will do exactly nothing, when they are a worse team than they were last year, by far.

 If they make the playoffs it will be a miracle. I don't care if Scotty Bowman was coaching you can't expect to win when you get worse over the offseason, and once again, that is what they did.

Out with the good, in with the bad. Out with the bad, in with the worse. Hextall has ruined the team and if you dont believe me, I guess you will soon enough when talk of "tanking" starts.

 Of course, maybe a high lottery pick is what they want. Its possible, why else would a gm purposely ruin a team?

 

[csummers]

6 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yeah. 

 

Then trade G and remove that blanket.

ya, trade G. Cant expect to win with the second leading scorer in the league last year on the team. I knew the 102 points or so he got was the problem. If he could just score about 80 points less he would fit right in. 

 Everyone knows to build a winner the first thing you have to do is get rid of your best players.

You kids......

[ruxpin]

22 minutes ago, csummers said:

ya, trade G. Cant expect to win with the second leading scorer in the league last year on the team. I knew the 102 points or so he got was the problem. If he could just score about 80 points less he would fit right in. 

 Everyone knows to build a winner the first thing you have to do is get rid of your best players.

You kids......

I lose brain cells every time I read your drivel. Stick with facebook where you'll fit in with the imbeciles

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, csummers said:

Sure change the coach because they are losing.

 

 

It's not just because they are losing it's how they are losing....but i forget you know it all.

 

Maybe Ron should give you a ring, sounds like all your Cup winning experience could come in handy and you know all the title you have coached clubs too...you must be the guy Scotty Bowman was saying he owed all his success to....he never dropped a name but it had to be you.

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, csummers said:

Sure change the coach because they are losing. I get it, I would be glad if they did, I am not a fan but I see it for what it is. He is far from the issue and doing that will do exactly nothing, when they are a worse team than they were last year, by far.

 If they make the playoffs it will be a miracle. I don't care if Scotty Bowman was coaching you can't expect to win when you get worse over the offseason, and once again, that is what they did.

Out with the good, in with the bad. Out with the bad, in with the worse. Hextall has ruined the team and if you dont believe me, I guess you will soon enough when talk of "tanking" starts.

 Of course, maybe a high lottery pick is what they want. Its possible, why else would a gm purposely ruin a team?

 

What went out, oh brilliant canker sore? 

 

Filpulla?  Who else? 

 

We added JVR and subtracted Filpulla. 

 

Who else are you referring to? Read? Manning? Mrazek?   

 

Do you even know? 

 

We all miss worthless players like we miss worthless posters. We're all dumber because you breathe. Do it somewhere else. 

[radoran]

20 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Maybe you're right, light his fire and the rest follow suit.  But I can't help thinking it's deeper than that.

 

The Flyers top two forwards in terms of ice time and shifts were Giroux and Couturier. They combined for 54 shifts and about 42 minutes of combined ice time.

 

They managed four shots and one hit. Combined.

 

Voracek is next at 19:41 minutes of ice time. His contribution raises the totals to five shots and one hit. Combined.

 

77 shifts. 62 minutes of ice time. Five shots. One hit.

 

That's not laying an egg. Laying an egg would have taken more effort than that.

 

Did I mention the $21M in cap space (29% of the Flyers total cap hit)?

[pilldoc]

15 hours ago, csummers said:

ya, trade G. Cant expect to win with the second leading scorer in the league last year on the team. I knew the 102 points or so he got was the problem. If he could just score about 80 points less he would fit right in. 

 Everyone knows to build a winner the first thing you have to do is get rid of your best players.

You kids......

 

I posted this earlier so I am guessing you missed it.  I am reposting for YOUR benefit. Lets look at his stats listed below.

 

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	GP	G	A	PTS	S%
2007-08	20	PHI	NHL	2	0	0	0	0
2008-09	21	PHI	NHL	42	9	18	27	13.4
2009-10	22	PHI	NHL	82	16	31	47	11
2010-11	23	PHI	NHL	82	25	51	76	14.8
2011-12	24	PHI	NHL	77	28	65	93	11.6
2012-13	25	PHI	NHL	48	13	35	48	9.5
2013-14	26	PHI	NHL	82	28	58	86	12.6
2014-15	27	PHI	NHL	81	25	48	73	9
2015-16	28	PHI	NHL	78	22	45	67	9.1
2016-17	29	PHI	NHL	82	14	44	58	7
2017-18	30	PHI	NHL	82	34	68	102	17.6
2018-19	31	PHI	NHL	11	3	8	11	7.5
Career		12 Seasons	NHL	749	217	471	688	11.2

 

 

Let's be honest here how many truly "superstar" like seasons has he truly had.  I'm not arguing that he isn't a star player. He is, but he is just not in the Tavres / Stamkos / Crosby / Ovie / McDavid realm.  We joke that as Giroux goes so goes the Flyers. 

 

Look at the stats.  He accumulated 102 PTS last year while shooting above his CSH%  He got to 93 PT in 11/12 because of Jagr.  Matter of fact he is trending down for 3 years straight.   So the question has got be to be asked, how great is Giroux in relation to other super starts of the league.  Other Captains in the league strap their team to their backs and carry them.  When has Giroux really recently taken over a game or stretch of games.  Do not get me wrong I am not insinuating that Giroux is an average player.  I'm not.  I'm just pointing out that there are many times that our captain goes AWOL and not just on the stat sheet.  I'm also just merely suggesting that do you want a Captain of your team who disappears when the going gets tough.

 

Another question that gets begs to be asked is why is  SH% below is CSH% 3 out of the 4 past years?  And to boot he is AGAIN having his SH% this year below his CSH%.  Also add in the fact that his SOG have steadily decreased over the past couple of seasons.

 

Players don’t suddenly become great players at the age of 28. (FYI ..Giroux will turn 32 during the season) Large changes in shooting percentages should be a warning sign not an invitation or sign of encouragement. Let’s take a look at all of the players who had high shooting percentages in 2016-2017 and see how they performed in the following year.   As you can plainly see, most had a drop in the SH% the following year.  So let's take a look at your boy Giroux.

 

   

The above list with the fact that most NHL players experience a natural decline in their SH% after the age of 27.4.  And right on target, early on Giroux's SH% for this year is a paltry 7.5%.  The fact of the matter is Giroux is now in the beginning stages of decline in his career.  If the right package comes along, I am not at all against trading him.

 

Finally lets do the math...as of right now, this year,  Giroux is on pace for 22 G / 60 A = 82 PT for a 7.3 SH% on 298 SOG.  That is 100+ more SOG he had last year.  There is no way he keeps that up consider career wise he has averages ~180 SOG / yr.  So lets give him 200 SOG this year.  AT his current pace of 7.5 SH% that equates to only 15 goals this year and 75 total points.  Again ... a far cry from last year, but more on the norm what he has done over the past 3-4 yrs.

 

So before you come on hear all rah rah rah about not trading Giroux, I suggest you do some research and homework on the subject matter.

 

So again ...if the right package comes along....I am not against trading him.......
 

PS ... i forgot to mention...that is Assists last year are also abnormally high.  There is a huge difference between primary and secondary assists.  I'm betting is assists this year will fall somwhere between 40-50. 

He had a career year last year, but it was largely driven by luck.  You cannot expect that again this year....
 

 

 

 

[brelic]

21 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

I posted this earlier so I am guessing you missed it.  I am reposting for YOUR benefit. Lets look at his stats listed below.

 

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	GP	G	A	PTS	S%
2007-08	20	PHI	NHL	2	0	0	0	0
2008-09	21	PHI	NHL	42	9	18	27	13.4
2009-10	22	PHI	NHL	82	16	31	47	11
2010-11	23	PHI	NHL	82	25	51	76	14.8
2011-12	24	PHI	NHL	77	28	65	93	11.6
2012-13	25	PHI	NHL	48	13	35	48	9.5
2013-14	26	PHI	NHL	82	28	58	86	12.6
2014-15	27	PHI	NHL	81	25	48	73	9
2015-16	28	PHI	NHL	78	22	45	67	9.1
2016-17	29	PHI	NHL	82	14	44	58	7
2017-18	30	PHI	NHL	82	34	68	102	17.6
2018-19	31	PHI	NHL	11	3	8	11	7.5
Career		12 Seasons	NHL	749	217	471	688	11.2

 

 

Let's be honest here how many truly "superstar" like seasons has he truly had.  I'm not arguing that he isn't a star player. He is, but he is just not in the Tavres / Stamkos / Crosby / Ovie / McDavid realm.  We joke that as Giroux goes so goes the Flyers. 

 

Look at the stats.  He accumulated 102 PTS last year while shooting above his CSH%  He got to 93 PT in 11/12 because of Jagr.  Matter of fact he is trending down for 3 years straight.   So the question has got be to be asked, how great is Giroux in relation to other super starts of the league.  Other Captains in the league strap their team to their backs and carry them.  When has Giroux really recently taken over a game or stretch of games.  Do not get me wrong I am not insinuating that Giroux is an average player.  I'm not.  I'm just pointing out that there are many times that our captain goes AWOL and not just on the stat sheet.  I'm also just merely suggesting that do you want a Captain of your team who disappears when the going gets tough.

 

Another question that gets begs to be asked is why is  SH% below is CSH% 3 out of the 4 past years?  And to boot he is AGAIN having his SH% this year below his CSH%.  Also add in the fact that his SOG have steadily decreased over the past couple of seasons.

 

Players don’t suddenly become great players at the age of 28. (FYI ..Giroux will turn 32 during the season) Large changes in shooting percentages should be a warning sign not an invitation or sign of encouragement. Let’s take a look at all of the players who had high shooting percentages in 2016-2017 and see how they performed in the following year.   As you can plainly see, most had a drop in the SH% the following year.  So let's take a look at your boy Giroux.

 

   

The above list with the fact that most NHL players experience a natural decline in their SH% after the age of 27.4.  And right on target, early on Giroux's SH% for this year is a paltry 7.5%.  The fact of the matter is Giroux is now in the beginning stages of decline in his career.  If the right package comes along, I am not at all against trading him.

 

Finally lets do the math...as of right now, this year,  Giroux is on pace for 22 G / 60 A = 82 PT for a 7.3 SH% on 298 SOG.  That is 100+ more SOG he had last year.  There is no way he keeps that up consider career wise he has averages ~180 SOG / yr.  So lets give him 200 SOG this year.  AT his current pace of 7.5 SH% that equates to only 15 goals this year and 75 total points.  Again ... a far cry from last year, but more on the norm what he has done over the past 3-4 yrs.

 

So before you come on hear all rah rah rah about not trading Giroux, I suggest you do some research and homework on the subject matter.

 

So again ...if the right package comes along....I am not against trading him.......
 

PS ... i forgot to mention...that is Assists last year are also abnormally high.  There is a huge difference between primary and secondary assists.  I'm betting is assists this year will fall somwhere between 40-50. 

He had a career year last year, but it was largely driven by luck.  You cannot expect that again this year....
 

 

 

 

 

Nice work in digging out some stats and giving us some real analysis.

 

At the end of the day, though, Giroux has the 4th most points in the NHL since 2009-2010 (his first full season). Only Crosby, Ovechkin, and Kane are ahead of him. He falls to 6th or 7th if you go by PPG, but at the end of the day, only the points you ACTUALLY put up count.

 

All that said, I can certainly see the argument for trading him. It would be admitting that the very core of this team is not good enough to win a Cup. 

 

But who do you trade him for? For me, I'm not interested in 2-3 above average players in return. I want someone projected to be better than Giroux. Say, Rasmus Dahlin. Hischier. Matthews. Laine.

 

Or the rights to the 1st overall pick at the end of this season.

 

I just feel that any other trade just brings in more above average players, and we need top tier players, elite players, in our system. How many do we have on our team or in the system (with Giroux gone)? I would argue one who currently fits that definition. Ghost. He's a game changer and at the top end of offensive defensemen in the NHL. Voracek is a top line talent, but not elite. Coots is the same.

 

So, unless it's for a player of that caliber, I'm not interested lol. It's just kicking the can down the road and setting up the franchise for more mediocre performance.

 

 

 

 

[pilldoc]

18 minutes ago, brelic said:

Nice work in digging out some stats and giving us some real analysis.

 

Thanks

 

18 minutes ago, brelic said:

At the end of the day, though, Giroux has the 4th most points in the NHL since 2009-2010 (his first full season). Only Crosby, Ovechkin, and Kane are ahead of him. He falls to 6th or 7th if you go by PPG, but at the end of the day, only the points you ACTUALLY put up count.

 

Agree to a point.  Though while it is nice he has that distinction what has it actually gotten the Flyers.  Nothing, nadda, not a thing.  Now some of the blame can be shifted because of not having  quality players around him, changes in coaches, bad defensive teams, etc..the list is exhausting.  I'm looking for the Giroux who took over that infamous shift vs. the Pens that year in the playoffs.  We haven't seen much of that Giroux lately.  The stats don't lie, except for last year, he is beginning the downward part of his career.

 

18 minutes ago, brelic said:

All that said, I can certainly see the argument for trading him. It would be admitting that the very core of this team is not good enough to win a Cup.

 

Agree again and for most Flyers fans that would be a bitter pill to swallow.

 

18 minutes ago, brelic said:

But who do you trade him for? For me, I'm not interested in 2-3 above average players in return. I want someone projected to be better than Giroux. Say, Rasmus Dahlin. Hischier. Matthews. Laine.

 

Or the rights to the 1st overall pick at the end of this season.

 

I just feel that any other trade just brings in more above average players, and we need top tier players, elite players, in our system. 

 

So, unless it's for a player of that caliber, I'm not interested lol. It's just kicking the can down the road and setting up the franchise for more mediocre performance.

 

Again agree and great points / questions.  I don't know.  As far as getting #1 pick / elite players.....that is why trading him now or next year is more advantageous while he still has some value.  You simply are not going to get his full value in 2-3 years when he is 34-35 and only producing 65-70 pts.   That's what makes this tough.  It is a damned if you do and damned if you don't with regards to potentially trading Giroux.

 

Face it I love Giroux as much as any other Flyer fan.... but we have to be realistic in how we value him.  "IF" the right package comes alone and I'm Hexy, ...I am thinking long and hard about moving G.  With that in mind ...did I mention we need a real NHL coach who know's how to make adjustments ........

 

Totally appreciate your post Brel.

[mojo1917]

On 10/28/2018 at 2:51 PM, pilldoc said:

Outside of last year he certainly is far from being the best player in recent memory ...... 

which Flyer was better ?

asking for a friend.

 

 

[pilldoc]

4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

which Flyer was better ?

asking for a friend.

 

 

 

Touche’ ....  I actually meant to type “one of the better players in the league “ but yeah I get your point.