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Fire Hextall, gut senior management and the coaching staff


ruxpin

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10 hours ago, hf101 said:

Can a new coach really change the sum of the parts without actually changing some of the parts?  As I mentioned before - I'd put Voracek at the top of my trade list. 

Players certainly share blame, but are they able to trade Giroux and Voracek?  Who else do think needs to be traded?

 

Agree that the make-up of this team is terrible.  Too many soft players.  Hextall has done a terrible job in that department, especially on the third and fourth lines.  I really feel like the AHL program has failed them in this regard.  Surely, couldn't the Phantoms develop some decent third or fourth liners?

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11 hours ago, vis said:

Players certainly share blame, but are they able to trade Giroux and Voracek?  Who else do think needs to be traded?

 

Agree that the make-up of this team is terrible.  Too many soft players.  Hextall has done a terrible job in that department, especially on the third and fourth lines.  I really feel like the AHL program has failed them in this regard.  Surely, couldn't the Phantoms develop some decent third or fourth liners?

 

I get what you're saying about this team being 'soft' because I feel that too when I watch them.. 

 

Except that the Avalanche aren't any 'tougher' or 'heavier'. Neither are the Isles. Or the Sharks. Or the Bruins (though they can be). Or, really, any team we've played this year. 

 

We are 8th in hits/game this season. And we were spanked by the 'softest' team in the league (Columbus, 31st). San Jose is 27th. Nashville, 29th. Chicago, 30th. Ok, to correct my earlier statement, Vegas leads the league in hits/game, so we played one team that is supposedly more aggressive than us in that respect, and we split the season series with them. 

 

We're also the 6th most penalized team in the league. 

 

I think the Phantoms right now are full of potential future 3/4th liners. Rubtsov, Twarynski, NAK, Vorobyev come to mind. The guys with higher ceilings, IMO, aren't in the AHL. Guys like Frost and Farabee I see as potential top 6 players. O'Brien is probably top 9, so are Ratcliffe and Allison, perhaps at the expense of Lindblom, who knows?

 

At the end of the day, though, it is not our 3rd and 4th lines letting the team down. Look at any fancy stats you want - the bottom line is that our top line is consistently outplayed by other teams' top lines. Our top defense is mediocre to terrible so far this year, and our goaltending is the same. 

 

Most of the rest of the lineup is doing the job they're supposed to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The most discouraging this is that the slow start and indecision by both Hak and Hex is likely to lead to another playoff miss.

 

I posted this in another thread the other day, but it bears repeating.

 

We are currently 5 points out of a playoff spot.

 

If we remain 4 points or more out of a playoff spot by Thursday (Nov 1), there's an 88% chance we will miss the playoffs. That's based on all playoff berths since 2004.

 

Only 7 teams have beat the odds in the past 14 years.

 

If the team were just in a 'rut', I'd say it's possible for a turnaround. But can you name one thing - other than faceoffs - that this team is doing well so far this year?

 

 

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On 10/28/2018 at 10:57 AM, hf101 said:

 

But what sends a bigger message to the players?  Changing coaches or trading away one of the favorited part of the Leadership core?

 

Honestly, I don't care what we'd get for Voracek as in good value or not.

Why not do both? Trade Voracek and fire Hextall and Hakstol.

Who was the GM when the Flyers won their cups?

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10 minutes ago, notfondajane said:

Why not do both? Trade Voracek and fire Hextall and Hakstol.

Who was the GM when the Flyers won their cups?

Keith Allen. He and the Flyers are both dead. 

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12 minutes ago, notfondajane said:

Why not do both? Trade Voracek and fire Hextall and Hakstol.

Who was the GM when the Flyers won their cups?

Keith Allen

 

From 1956 to 1965, Allen was a head coach in the Western Hockey League with the Seattle Americans/Seattle Totems, with only one losing season in eight years. With the NHL expansion in 1967, Allen was hired as the first head coach of the Philadelphia Flyers, with his former coach and teammate Bud Poile as general manager. In their inaugural season, the Flyers finished first in their division with the best record among the six new teams. They fell to third place in their division in the 1968–69 NHL season, and Allen then became the Flyers' general manager than, also, with the Quebec Aces in same time . There, he would help construct the famed "Broad Street Bullies" that led the Flyers to consecutive Stanley Cups in 1974 and 1975, earning the nickname "Keith the Thief". He would also help start the AHL's Maine Mariners, one of the most successful franchises in that league's history.

 

Allen was elected to the Hockey Hall of Fame as a Builder in 1992. He was the executive vice-president of the Flyers

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On 10/28/2018 at 8:45 AM, ruxpin said:

Okay,

So the senior management part isn't going to happen, but it needs to.  

 

Get a priest or two and do an exorcism and rid the Flyers of the influence of Clarke and Holmgren.   Then use about 600 cans of lysol to get rid of the stench.

 

Those two combined drove this organization right into the 9th circle of Hell.  And then they're rewarded by moving UP in the organization and stand over Hextall, who therefore cannot acknowledge the mess and gut the team as needed.  No, he has to pretend it's not a complete cluster#### and make changes over 5 years (largely by attrition) while maintaining the delusion of competitiveness.

 

I still believe Hextall has done a terrific job with the farm system and with the prospect pool.  I wonder how much better he could have done had he been able to get higher quality picks by being able to trade Vorazombie or Girabanass.  

 

We would have won the exact same number of playoff rounds and participated in only 2 less over the last 5 years.

 

With that defense of Hextall's job with the farm system/prospects and the built in excuse of the imbeciles before and above him, the coaching staff is squarely on him.  It was worth a shot.  When they were gearing up to s###can Berube, I was on here advocating for them hiring out of juniors or the college ranks (Juniors was my preference).  I had no knowledge of Hakstol at the time, but he was along the lines of what I was advocating for.

 

He's been a dramatic failure that has gotten worse.   Whether it's his insistence or Hextall's, the blind loyalty to the supporting staff of assistant coaches is no longer admirable.  It's a disastrously fatal flaw.   As a group, this staff is not remotely competent.  

 

Combine that with inability to address the 3C, signing Folin instead of an NHL defenseman, and not addressing the goaltending situation in a sober way ALL WHILE SITTING ON AT LEAST $10M IN CAP ROOM-- that is an indictment on the general manager.

 

I don't think many of us--myself included--will like the results of a GM change.  It will likely result in the trading of many of the prospects we've spent some time waiting on.    But this is going backwards fast.   Already, the effects of the shitshow that is the Flyers/Phantoms coaching are showing themselves on Hart.  

 

Gut it.  Cut out the cancer.  Exorcise Clarke and Holmgren.  Fire the GM and his coaching staff, retain the amateur scouts but gut the pro-scouting.  Start over.

 

[/rant]

 

I agree with everything but Hextall.  

 

The only part of his job I'm upset with him for screwing up is not firing Hakstol or at the very least Lappy by now. 

He's done the right job with the players.  

 

I'd have preferred Morin starting on the team last year instead of Hagg and who knows if his injury situation gets so out of hand if the Flyers staff is checking him out.  

 

But I believe in the team he's assembled and the kids in the system.  The only decent explanation for their failure based on the talent I believe they possess is Hakstol.  
 

He is stubbornly sticking to his low to high offense and it is stubbornly kicking them in the nuts every night.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Greetings:

 

I thought this was a well-reasoned argument for dismissing Dave Hakstol:

 

https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2018/10/29/18026062/philadelphia-flyers-please-fire-dave-hakstol

 

 

 

 

This the main reason he fails....

 

“I don’t know if I can sum it up in one word. I can tell you the way I approach my business on a daily basis is in a very direct manner. I think expectations are quite simple of myself, of my staff and our players. Maybe to sum (it) up in one word, accountability, to one another, to our organization.”

 

...you have to be this way with all the players especially the vets....and they seem to be given a pass.

 

You can't discipline you kids differently in your house...one set of rules for all.

 

In fact your vets are suppose to set the example and they are........ a bad example.

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On 10/29/2018 at 9:30 AM, brelic said:

I get what you're saying about this team being 'soft' because I feel that too when I watch them.. 

Again, soft for me isn't just about hitting or getting penalized.  It's about being hard to play against, bringing energy, outskating (and I don't mean speed, necessarily) and pressuring the opposition, finishing checks, winning board battles and 50/50 pucks and protecting the puck when you have it.  I don't think our guys do that well enough.  Does every team do it consistently?  Nope.  But, I don't think the Flyers do enough of it at all.

 

Remember: we were supposed to get fast, aggressive, hard hockey with Hakstol.  Still waiting for it.  I get that maybe it has something to do with personnel.  But I'm not 100% convinced that's the only reason.

 

Quote

At the end of the day, though, it is not our 3rd and 4th lines letting the team down.

Aside from a few individuals, no one is good enough at this time.  Yes, the top line is being outplayed.  But I don't think you're getting a boost from the third or fourth lines on a consistent basis, either.  I'm not looking for the bottom lines to score (though, give credit to Lehtera for getting the lone goal in that 6-1 debacle).  I want the bottom lines to be hard to play against.  The other problem is that they have no legit 3C.  That's on Hextall.

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Just now, murraycraven said:

 

 

The only guy I think that plays every shift hard this year has been Laughton.  

Agree.  I do think he, Lehtera and even Weise deserve some credit for their efforts.  Funny, they are probably the least talented players on the team.

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Just now, vis said:

Agree.  I do think he, Lehtera and even Weise deserve some credit for their efforts.  Funny, they are probably the least talented players on the team.

 

completely agree.... for the fear of being chastised around here I intentionally left out Lehtera and Weise:)

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I don't know what the answer is.  Before this post by @ruxpin I was just thinking the coach was the problem but after reading the responses, there is a case to be made about the SLT (senior leadership team).   The team as built was setup to fail this year.  Hextall didn't do his job over the summer.  

 

Case in point is the goalie situation.  None of our 6 goalies GAA is in the top 30 of their leagues.  Put aside the head coach and the horrible PP/PK coaching.  Put aside not buying-out AMac or Lehtera.  While I agree there wasn't many goalies available over the summer, Hexy did nothing.  He took a gamble and it didn't pay off.  That's entirely on him.  And while all of us point to Hart as the savior, it's clear he isn't close to ready either and in fact, may never be.  

 

So while most of us (including me) point to the coach, Hextall deserves at least some of the blame as well.   If I had a choice, I would be okay with using the assets to go after a younger goalie.  Without a solid goalie to erase some mistakes our extremely green defense is making, the team will suffer both loses and confidence.

 

image.png.a496f548249bba3ecd2fce669befe8f0.png

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37 minutes ago, Digityman said:

I don't know what the answer is.  Before this post by @ruxpin I was just thinking the coach was the problem but after reading the responses, there is a case to be made about the SLT (senior leadership team).   The team as built was setup to fail this year.  Hextall didn't do his job over the summer.  

 

Case in point is the goalie situation.  None of our 6 goalies GAA is in the top 30 of their leagues.  Put aside the head coach and the horrible PP/PK coaching.  Put aside not buying-out AMac or Lehtera.  While I agree there wasn't many goalies available over the summer, Hexy did nothing.  He took a gamble and it didn't pay off.  That's entirely on him.  And while all of us point to Hart as the savior, it's clear he isn't close to ready either and in fact, may never be.  

 

So while most of us (including me) point to the coach, Hextall deserves at least some of the blame as well.   If I had a choice, I would be okay with using the assets to go after a younger goalie.  Without a solid goalie to erase some mistakes our extremely green defense is making, the team will suffer both loses and confidence.

 

image.png.a496f548249bba3ecd2fce669befe8f0.png

 

 

can't argue at all...

 

so, based on Nuey not actually being the worst goalie in the league it only makes sense that Hextall resign him and double his salary (again)....   ugh...

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2 hours ago, Digityman said:

So while most of us (including me) point to the coach, Hextall deserves at least some of the blame as well. 

Everyone shares some blame for sure.  Hextall failing to address 3C and the PK are issues along with rolling with Elliott and Neuvirth the past couple of years.  I think Hextall has not been good with bringing in talent at the NHL level, especially when they sit at $10m below the cap.  In fact, at times last year I gave Hakstol credit for getting the results he did from that roster.  Finally, the core has been an issue going back to the Laviolette days.  Problem is, the quick fix is to fire the coach.  But there are other issues that are more challenging to address.  And probably point the finger more directly at the GM.  And I think those issues are unlikely to be addressed any time soon (i.e., by trading players or firing the GM).

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5 minutes ago, vis said:

And probably point the finger more directly at the GM.  And I think those issues are unlikely to be addressed any time soon (i.e., by trading players or firing the GM).

 

Or getting rid of the core.   I'd like to see Jake and Simmer moved.  It's clear the Flyers are still 2-3 years (lol) from competing.  

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4 minutes ago, Digityman said:

Or getting rid of the core.   I'd like to see Jake and Simmer moved.  It's clear the Flyers are still 2-3 years (lol) from competing.  

Tend to agree, especially on Jake.  Not sure how easy it is to move V's contract.  I'd love to keep Simmonds, but don't think it's feasible to resign him at UFA rates (or even a slight discount).

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20 minutes ago, Digityman said:

 

Or getting rid of the core.   I'd like to see Jake and Simmer moved.  It's clear the Flyers are still 2-3 years (lol) from competing.  

 

 

the funny thing I read was that we are 2 years from being 2 years away --  cracked me up :)

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