Into The Hall He Goes.....

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

 

A link from the Tampa Bay Times, with thoughts from former teammates and coaches of his on the Lightning:
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/lightning/2018/11/11/hockey-hall-of-fame-inductee-marty-st-louis-was-always-looking-for-more/

 

To the surprise of no one, long time TB Lightning and short time Calgary Flame/NY Ranger player, Martin St. Louis, will be inducted into hockey's Hall of Fame.

 

The heart n soul of the Bolts for many years and a man who epitomized hard work and overcoming obstacles to get to the top...and as we all know, the very TOP in the NHL is a Stanley Cup win.

 

From a guy the Flames didn't want to a Cup Champion in Tampa Bay, to a guy who became an icon for every small, talented player that comes down the pipeline (how many times have we heard a small player referred to as "like Marty St. Louis"), to a man who did things his way, no apologies, yet still maintained the kind of class everyone likes to see from their heroes on and off the ice.

Congratulations Marty St. Louis!

Well deserved, but not only that, but for me in particular, he helped me become not only a more solidified TB Lightning fan after losing touch a bit with the horrid ownership and teams before he came along, but more of an NHL fan as well because I wanted to see who else had guys with his class and skill...yet were as underrated for years like he was.

Comical to call him 'underrated', but for a long time, yes, he was.

So glad to see him get his due.
A true no-brainer, IMO, inductee.

[Buffalo Rick]

Well if St Louis makes it then Vanek should also make it. Border line IMO

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

10 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Well if St Louis makes it then Vanek should also make it. Border line IMO

Borderline?
You think St. Louis is borderline or Vanek?

 

Also, while I haven't delved too deeply into the career numbers, I don't see how if St. Louis gets in that Vanek should as well.

I mean, I will not pretend to know that Marty St. Louis definitely checks all the HOF boxes or not, but from what I can tell, Marty was an overall more productive player than Vanek was.

Marty has more hardware awards to show for his career, has appeared in and performed well in more playoff games, has starred on the International stage as well for one of the highest profile INT teams (Canada), not to mention a little something called the Stanley Cup.

 

Not saying Vanek isn't deserving (there is a whole other thread for that on the site), but Vanek would NOT be the first player that comes to mind when comparing a career to St. Louis.

 

In other non statistical areas, St. Louis was known for many years as a driving force in the TB Lightning organization.
Other great TB Lightning players have publicly stated they learned from and owed him much as they matured into great players as well... Vincent Lecavalier and Steven Stamkos, just to name a couple.

 

He also is iconic for what he represents.... an undrafted player who showed hard work CAN make you NHL viable.
He was always and continues to be to this day, someone people compare similar players to....no disrespect to Vanek and taking nothing away from him, but he didn't stand out, at least to me, in any of those ways during his career.

[Buffalo Rick]

3 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Borderline?
You think St. Louis is borderline or Vanek?

 

Also, while I haven't delved too deeply into the career numbers, I don't see how if St. Louis gets in that Vanek should as well.

I mean, I will not pretend to know that Marty St. Louis definitely checks all the HOF boxes or not, but from what I can tell, Marty was an overall more productive player than Vanek was.

Marty has more hardware awards to show for his career, has appeared in and performed well in more playoff games, has starred on the International stage as well for one of the highest profile INT teams (Canada), not to mention a little something called the Stanley Cup.

 

Not saying Vanek isn't deserving (there is a whole other thread for that on the site), but Vanek would NOT be the first player that comes to mind when comparing a career to St. Louis.

 

In other non statistical areas, St. Louis was known for many years as a driving force in the TB Lightning organization.
Other great TB Lightning players have publicly stated they learned from and owed him much as they matured into great players as well... Vincent Lecavalier and Steven Stamkos, just to name a couple.

 

He also is iconic for what he represents.... an undrafted player who showed hard work CAN make you NHL viable.
He was always and continues to be to this day, someone people compare similar players to....no disrespect to Vanek and taking nothing away from him, but he didn't stand out, at least to me, in any of those ways during his career.

Hardware does not measure individual accomplishment.  

 

Longevity is one thing you must have.  But some of the greatest players I have ever seen, that are far better than St Louis or Vanek, like Rene Robert, Mike Bossy  and Richard Martin, were injured and their careers sadly ended too soon.  But they were incredible players

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

5 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Hardware does not measure individual accomplishment.  

 

Longevity is one thing you must have.  But some of the greatest players I have ever seen, that are far better than St Louis or Vanek, like Rene Robert, Mike Bossy  and Richard Martin, were injured and their careers sadly ended too soon.  But they were incredible players

 

Hardware alone is not the be-all, end all, for sure.
But the awards along with the amazing career and stats IS.... and MSL has that in spades.

And if you want longevity, 16 NHL seasons is long enough...especially for a guy who wasn't even supposed to "make it" there...much less get a call to the Hall.

[Math]

A no-brainer HOF, maybe. But I put here the reverse side of the coin.

 

A great player? Absolutely. Strengthen by the fact that he had never been drafted, chosed to go through an untypical career path (U of Vermont) and with a size that was a clear drawback.

 

Given these facts, did these things make him a humble and modest person? Definitely not.

During the lock-out of 2004-2005, he joined my team in Switzerland to play the season there. For us, that was incredible. Imagine, a Stanley Cup winner in our team, the opportunity to watch him for like 30-40 games, see him playing against Thornton, Nash, Spezza, Gélinas in their best times...

 

But he was truly cocky, arrogant, codescendant, watching and judging easily people around him. Not a simple guy. He was just a primadonna diva, and that put things in perspective.

 

Once in a bar with a couple of friends, we noticed him and went towards him, just to speak. He just told us: "Vous, les Suisses, vous êtes dégeulasses: vous fumez!" (translation: you, swiss people, you are disgusting: you smoke). Well, hell of an introduction. And he was like that all the time.

 

And the end of the season, the team was in a very bad situation: last in the standings with financial problems. His wife was pregnant, but he gave that as a reason to run away, pretending that the health care system in Switzerland was terrible and that he didn't trust it. So from day to day, he fled, without telling anybody, in the middle of the season. Consequently, the team collapsed.

 

This caused some mix feelings about him and his tenure. People and fans were thrilled to see him play. And believe he, it was terrific to see that level of hockey in Europe. But his disrespect coupled with the circumstances concerning his departure left all of us quite bitter.

To summarize that, great player but a little, tiny person (and it's not about the size).

[blocker]

"But he was truly cocky, arrogant, codescendant, watching and judging easily people around him. Not a simple guy. He was just a primadonna diva, and that put things in perspective."

 

That's not the Marty St. Louis I know.   I've seen him interact with the public many times and he's never been anything but kind and polite.  

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

@Villette/Lavaux

Well, you obviously had an experience that I can't come close to matching with regards to Marty St. Louis.
And I won't pretend to know what kind of man he was all the time off the ice, but all I can go by is what teammates, coaches, arena staf, etc, say about him.....and for the most part, it is positive.

My dad always subscribed to that saying, and he impressed it upon me, something about "not meeting your heroes, because you may be disappointed"...or some such.

Well, I never go to meet MSL....maybe that was a good thing, because as far as I know, he was every bit the gentleman, he served as an inspiration for many, and for fans, me personally for the reasons I stated in my earlier post here (he basically helped bring life back to a mostly dead organization and fostered an atmosphere where young guys can turn into stars themselves).

Does that mean that he really was a "jerk" or that maybe he wasn't but had some off days where he just decided he was going to be?
I don't know. And I probably never will.

But even if he was this two faced person who was one way for the cameras and another way off the cameras, there is simply no denying his professional body of work.
I am pretty sure the hockey HOF, like the baseball HOF, has guys who, by many accounts ARE big time jerks.....and while likeability is a plus, I think the people that vote these guys in care more about what they did as players, how they impacted the game, and if they set standards and were well known as the best at points in their careers.

So, not gonna say you are 'wrong' about St. Louis, but also, I can't endorse your experience as one that is "Yea, that's how he is...Primadonna Jerk" either.
For my purposed (and apparently the purposes of those who voted him in) he IS Hall of Fame material no question, and whatever he is/was off the ice to those around him everyday (again, I only hear good things), I will never know as he has served, from my point of view, as nothing but a positive role model.....and I believe his inclusion into the HOF is richly deserved.