Can Rubstov become our third line center late this season

[RonJeremy]

Weal is a tentative little runt who gets outmuscled constantly and he is not the answer for our third line center. If Rubtsov keeps up the good play can he be a late season call up for the third line center position? Has anyone seen any Phantoms games to give us a scouting report on Rubtsov ?

 

 

[flyerrod]

I would keep him on the Phantoms playing more minutes at least for now. Weal is soon going to be replaced by a healthy JVR. Weal can join MacDud as popcorn boy until the injury bug returns to the Flyers. Serving popcorn will not help Rubstov .....

[elmatus]

11 hours ago, flyerrod said:

Weal is soon going to be replaced by a healthy JVR.

 

Weise would be more likely in this case. 

 

I'm honestly wondering how all this will shake down. Lindblom has been quite good in the 2LW role. Does JVR become our 3LW? That's a lot of money to pay a third liner.

 

As far as Weal goes, the only reason he's around is because we have no viable 3C right now. This isn't a new problem. Several of us talked about it at length at the end of last season. Vorobyev seemed solid in camp, but he didn't pan out when the pressure started, so now we're stuck with Weal.

 

Laughton has been playing extremely well this season. He's been on the wing though. Would bumping him up a line and slotting him back at center make him worse? I dunno. Sometimes it's best not to mess with a good thing. Might be worth a try though. He's earned it if nothing else imo.

[mojo1917]

14 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Vorobyev seemed solid in camp, but he didn't pan out when the pressure started, so now we're stuck with Weal.

 

Was he given a chance to work through whatever he wasn't doing right? 

I don't think he was. 

However, I will say this in Hakstol's defence. He did send Sanheim back to get a little more mature and that has been working out very well, so maybe there's something beyond just playing that he hasn't liked about Vorobyev.  I don't recall seeing him and thinking what the hell is he doing there? a whole lot, but then I didn't see him a whole lot either. 

Weal needs to be puck dominant to be effective and he's not quite quick enough to be elusive or strong enough to keep the puck when challenged by a larger player. He doesn't suck but he's not an effective everyday NHL player either.

 

[elmatus]

4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

Was he given a chance to work through whatever he wasn't doing right? 

I don't think he was. 

 

I think that's a fair point. Not giving young players a chance to figure things out is a hallmark of the Hakstol coaching experience. It's entirely possible Vorobyev would have become the player we needed given more time in the NHL. Realistically, he wasn't going to get that chance with Hak behind the bench. I wonder how well he's doing in LHV?

[flyerrod]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

Weise would be more likely in this case. 

Weise is going nowhere. He was kept on this team when he was a total nonfactor and this season has been a very serviceable 4th liner. This is probably his best performance to date...at least  with his stint with the Flyers. He is one of Hak's go to guys (for what reason I could not have guessed until his play this season). Weal is my pick for Popcorn boy at this point. He continues to show flashes but is too often out muscled and loses the puck.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

 

Weise would be more likely in this case. 

 

I'm honestly wondering how all this will shake down. Lindblom has been quite good in the 2LW role. Does JVR become our 3LW? That's a lot of money to pay a third liner.

 

As far as Weal goes, the only reason he's around is because we have no viable 3C right now. This isn't a new problem. Several of us talked about it at length at the end of last season. Vorobyev seemed solid in camp, but he didn't pan out when the pressure started, so now we're stuck with Weal.

 

Laughton has been playing extremely well this season. He's been on the wing though. Would bumping him up a line and slotting him back at center make him worse? I dunno. Sometimes it's best not to mess with a good thing. Might be worth a try though. He's earned it if nothing else imo.

I really think Laughton is better off on the wing. 

 

There are three problems with JVR on the third line, but I think that's where he probably should go. 

 

1). His salary, which you mentioned. Ultimately, we have the cap room so I get it and have said the same, but this is kind of "who cares?". Especially when the apparent plan is to go with three scoring lines. 

 

2) Weal will be his center. He's actually been better than I predicted, but he's simply outclassed by that role. 

 

3) I'm not a fan of JVR and Simmonds on the same line given they both play an "in front of the goalie" game.  Simmonds seems a little slow to be playing outside at this point. 

 

I wonder about one two solutions. The first is flipping Voracek and Simmonds. I'm not a huge fan of this because the Patrick line as is looks like it's coming along.  And, in any case, Weal is still at center.  The other is moving Giroux back to center.  Coots becomes the 3C again. The problem here is now you've weakened the 3LW significantly. 

 

There's no great alternative, so just slot JVR in at 3lw with Weal and Simmonds and see what happens.  Bring Vorobyov back up and see what happens for him with wingers. 

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

one two solutions

 

Those are the best.

[elmatus]

1 hour ago, flyerrod said:

Weise is going nowhere. He was kept on this team when he was a total nonfactor and this season has been a very serviceable 4th liner. This is probably his best performance to date...at least  with his stint with the Flyers. He is one of Hak's go to guys (for what reason I could not have guessed until his play this season). Weal is my pick for Popcorn boy at this point. He continues to show flashes but is too often out muscled and loses the puck.

 

I’m not saying your wrong about Weal, I’m saying that Weise is clearly going to move when JVR comes in. Either JVR will be the 3LW or it’ll be Lindblom, but it won’t be Weise. 

 

As far as Weal goes, i agree he’s ineffective. What i’m saying is that he has no competition for the job of 3C right now. We don’t have a truly capable 3C. Until we find one, there’s a good chance it’ll be Weal. 

 

Weise doesn’t play center, and despite being ok so far this year, he’s clearly not going to supplant JVR, Lindblom, or Simmer.

 

He may play on the fourth line though. I could see that. I think Laughton/Lehtera/Weise is a pretty obvious possibility. 

[ruxpin]

23 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Those are the best.

My work computer is ridiculous

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

I think Laughton/Lehtera/Weise is a pretty obvious possibility. 

 

That could quite possibly be the slowest line to ever hit the ice in a game of ice hockey. I guess Laughton can skate ok, but jeez louise.

[brelic]

19 hours ago, elmatus said:

Either JVR will be the 3LW or it’ll be Lindblom, but it won’t be Weise. 

 

I don't think that's necessarily true. 

 

Apparently, the lines in practice the other day had JVR with Lindblom and Patrick (even though they're both righties). 

 

Could be nothing, or could be something. 

 

In that case, I'd guess either Voracek or TK moves to the 3rd line with Simmer and Weal (or Laughton).

 

That might not be bad actually.

 

G/Coots/TK

Lindblom/Patrick/JVR

Voracek/Laughton or Weal/Simmonds

Weise/Lehtera/NAK

 

[brelic]

22 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

I think that's a fair point. Not giving young players a chance to figure things out is a hallmark of the Hakstol coaching experience. It's entirely possible Vorobyev would have become the player we needed given more time in the NHL. Realistically, he wasn't going to get that chance with Hak behind the bench. I wonder how well he's doing in LHV?

 

I know that's a common narrative, but I feel like he's done a decent job with the kids. 

 

Half of our top six is 22 or under, our top defenseman is 21, Sanheim keeps earning more minutes and showing progress, and NAK was rewarded the other night with more time after showing some strong play.

 

Yeah, maybe Vorobyev was scratched/sent back pretty quickly, but at the end of the day, not every 'kid' is the same. 

 

Guys like Patrick, Provorov, TK - they have a little something extra that makes sense having them 'figure it out' in the NHL once they're here. He gave Provorov a ton of leeway while he was struggling, and still is. Same with Patrick. TK was shuffled around the lineup a bit, but also developed his game while doing so.

 

Vorobyev? I'm guessing he just didn't show enough to warrant being an everyday NHL player at this point. He's 21. That's ok. That would make 7 guys under 22 on this team, and based on the teams I looked at yesterday (top 12 teams in the league), that is the most. 

 

So far in 6 games back in LHV, Vorobeyv has 5 points. 

 

Top young guy down there is David Kase - who I've seen compared to Datsyuk - with 10 points in 11 games. He is apparently very fast.

 

Rubtsov has 10 points in 13 games. 

 

Myers has 9 points in 14 games.

 

Twarynski (1pt) and Bunnaman (2pts) are kind of at the bottom of the roster, but it's their first pro season.

 

Hart is sporting an .893 save % and 3.28 GAA.

 

Speaking of which, he's played 8 games, Lyon has played 4, and Stolarz 2. It's starting to feel like Stolarz is the odd man out.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

I'm guessing he just didn't show enough to warrant being an everyday NHL player at this point.

 

Per Bill Meltzer (on Misha):

"He played well in the opener. That was it, apart from the gift-wrapped-with-a-bow first NHL goal in the next game. Otherwise he struggled pretty much in every facet.

Compete level is not a new issue with him. Fairly or unfairly, some Phantoms teammates, vets and rookies alike, took periodic issue with some perceived work habit issues last year as a rookie (in any work environment, there is complaining when there's a feeling that a co-worker doesn't pull his weight and creates more work for them). That info was kept off-the-record last season and the original sources remain off-record but "the compete level" stuff is now open info because Hak directly alluded to it twice. 

In fairness, Vorobyev faced a lot of adjustments last season and did well overall. He worked his tail off throughout the summer and had an outstanding training camp and preseason. Then he fell into that cycle where the regular season NHL pace kicked in, he was a little overwhelmed, his confidence dropped (which can be mistaken for low energy), his assertiveness dropped with it, then his ice time dropped and he was in the healthy scratch zone. Struggled in his return game and was sent back to the AHL.

I think he'll be fine. Was most definitely competing last night."

[flyercanuck]

4 hours ago, brelic said:

 

 

Hart is sporting an .893 save % and 3.28 GAA.

 

.

 

 

 

Hart didn't fare so well in his first few games as a pro...which is typical of a guy coming out of junior. Ilya Samsonov, who's regarded even higher than Hart and was taken in the 1st round a year earlier, is sitting dead last in AHL goalie stats at this point of the season. I doubt either ends up with these poor numbers.

 

 In his last 3 games Hart's sporting a .923 save percentage and a 1.93 GAA. Those are top 4 stats in the A. He's also 4-2-2 in those 8 starts...which is pretty damn good for a just turned 20 year old.

[murraycraven]

36 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Hart didn't fare so well in his first few games as a pro...which is typical of a guy coming out of junior. Ilya Samsonov, who's regarded even higher than Hart and was taken in the 1st round a year earlier, is sitting dead last in AHL goalie stats at this point of the season. I doubt either ends up with these poor numbers.

 

 In his last 3 games Hart's sporting a .923 save percentage and a 1.93 GAA. Those are top 4 stats in the A. He's also 4-2-2 in those 8 starts...which is pretty damn good for a just turned 20 year old.

 

 

sounds like Hart had a darn good game last night as well....

[brelic]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Hart didn't fare so well in his first few games as a pro...which is typical of a guy coming out of junior. Ilya Samsonov, who's regarded even higher than Hart and was taken in the 1st round a year earlier, is sitting dead last in AHL goalie stats at this point of the season. I doubt either ends up with these poor numbers.

 

 In his last 3 games Hart's sporting a .923 save percentage and a 1.93 GAA. Those are top 4 stats in the A. He's also 4-2-2 in those 8 starts...which is pretty damn good for a just turned 20 year old.

 

Much better. Also, I am not passing judgment on Hart - I was just posting his stats along with a few other Phantoms by way of the previous question.

 

At the end of the day, I'm less concerned about Hart being a legit #1 goalie than I am having at least one freaking guy in the organization being a #1.

 

Interesting post on the Athletic today about Ersson. It's behind a paywall, but the one and a half paragraphs I read were informative

 

The best goalie of this current generation is probably Lundqvist, a 7th rounder. Last year's Vezina winner, Rinne, is an 8th rounder.

 

And the only multiple Vezina winner in recent times, Bobrovsky, is undrafted.

 

So whether it's Hart, Ersson, Ustimenko, Sandstrom, just give us ONE guy to end all goaltending controversy in Philly for at least 5 years!! Is that too much to ask?

[Claude Monet]

Hart is going to be fine. His back ground and pedigree exemplifies his ability to overcome setbacks. His ability to come back and win that world junior gold is enough for me... let alone watching him every time he came to Pdx, including playoffs.

 

he is really good