Two years away from being two years away

[brelic]

Some of the discussion in other threads got me thinking about the Flyers seemingly being stuck in a "two years away" loop. 

 

I looked at the Panthers and Flyers rosters, who seem relatively evenly matched.

 

The Panthers have 3 guys who are 22 years old or younger - Ekblad (1st overall, 4th season), Malgin (4th rounder, 3rd season), and McCann (1st rounder, 4th season). All three of them are 22.

 

McCann and Malgin play on the 3rd line, and Ekblad plays on the top D pairing.

 

They have 8 1st rounders in the lineup. 

 

The Flyers have 6 guys who are 22 years old or younger - Aube-Kubel (2nd rounder, rookie), Konecny (1st rounder, 3rd season), Lindblom (5th rounder, rookie), Patrick (1st rounder, 2nd season), Provorov (1st rounder, 3rd season), Sanheim (1st rounder, 2nd season). 

 

TK is on the 1st line, Patrick and Lindblom are on the 2nd, NAK is on the 4th, Provorov is on the top D pairing, and Sanheim is on the 3rd pairing.

 

They have 9 1st rounders in the lineup. 

 

 

At first glance, not only do we have more younger guys in the lineup than the Panthers, but - 

- They are expected to play larger roles than those of the Panthers by virtue of their lineup position.

- They are less experienced overall than the Panthers young guys.

 

The Panthers also have a future HOF goaltender, and we most certainly do not. 

 

Both teams have young coaches who jumped levels to reach the NHL (Boughner from the OHL to the NHL, and Hakstol from NCAA to NHL). Boughner is in his 2nd year coaching at this level, Hak in his 4th.

 

Just looking at some top teams and how many guys under 22 they have - 

Nashville (1)

Columbus (2)

Tampa (4)

Toronto (4)

Minnesota (2)

Boston (5)

Winnipeg (4)

NY Islanders (2)

San Jose (2)

Vancouver (4)

 

So the Panthers are right in the middle, whereas the Flyers lead the pack. 

 

Does any of this explain why we're continually 2 years away from being 2 years away? Next year we'll likely add two more (Frost, Myers) or maybe three (Vorobyev?). What about NAK and Allison? Up front, we could be losing Simmonds, Lehtera, Raffl, Weal, and Weise could be a 13th or waived. Again, that's a huge infusion of youth and a significant loss in experience. They're not all great, mind you, and certainly half of them are replacement level. But it's still a lot of players to break in. 

 

Just a few idle observations on what this team looks like compared to the rest of the NHL. 

 

[Podein25]

16 minutes ago, brelic said:

Some of the discussion in other threads got me thinking about the Flyers seemingly being stuck in a "two years away" loop. 

 

I looked at the Panthers and Flyers rosters, who seem relatively evenly matched.

 

The Panthers have 3 guys who are 22 years old or younger - Ekblad (1st overall, 4th season), Malgin (4th rounder, 3rd season), and McCann (1st rounder, 4th season). All three of them are 22.

 

McCann and Malgin play on the 3rd line, and Ekblad plays on the top D pairing.

 

They have 8 1st rounders in the lineup. 

 

The Flyers have 6 guys who are 22 years old or younger - Aube-Kubel (2nd rounder, rookie), Konecny (1st rounder, 3rd season), Lindblom (5th rounder, rookie), Patrick (1st rounder, 2nd season), Provorov (1st rounder, 3rd season), Sanheim (1st rounder, 2nd season). 

 

TK is on the 1st line, Patrick and Lindblom are on the 2nd, NAK is on the 4th, Provorov is on the top D pairing, and Sanheim is on the 3rd pairing.

 

They have 9 1st rounders in the lineup. 

 

 

At first glance, not only do we have more younger guys in the lineup than the Panthers, but - 

- They are expected to play larger roles than those of the Panthers by virtue of their lineup position.

- They are less experienced overall than the Panthers young guys.

 

The Panthers also have a future HOF goaltender, and we most certainly do not. 

 

Both teams have young coaches who jumped levels to reach the NHL (Boughner from the OHL to the NHL, and Hakstol from NCAA to NHL). Boughner is in his 2nd year coaching at this level, Hak in his 4th.

 

Just looking at some top teams and how many guys under 22 they have - 

Nashville (1)

Columbus (2)

Tampa (4)

Toronto (4)

Minnesota (2)

Boston (5)

Winnipeg (4)

NY Islanders (2)

San Jose (2)

Vancouver (4)

 

So the Panthers are right in the middle, whereas the Flyers lead the pack. 

 

Does any of this explain why we're continually 2 years away from being 2 years away? Next year we'll likely add two more (Frost, Myers) or maybe three (Vorobyev?). What about NAK and Allison? Up front, we could be losing Simmonds, Lehtera, Raffl, Weal, and Weise could be a 13th or waived. Again, that's a huge infusion of youth and a significant loss in experience. They're not all great, mind you, and certainly half of them are replacement level. But it's still a lot of players to break in. 

 

Just a few idle observations on what this team looks like compared to the rest of the NHL. 

 

 

The only thing missing from your otherwise excellent thread/post are some heat maps.

 

Gotta have me some heat maps.

[JR Ewing]

4 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

The only thing missing from your otherwise excellent thread/post are some heat maps.

 

Gotta have me some heat maps.

 

Now you're just trolling me.   lol

 

[Podein25]

3 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Now you're just trolling me.   lol

 

 

Indeed I was. Sub-tweeting as it were

[King Knut]

54 minutes ago, brelic said:

Some of the discussion in other threads got me thinking about the Flyers seemingly being stuck in a "two years away" loop. 

 

I looked at the Panthers and Flyers rosters, who seem relatively evenly matched.

 

The Panthers have 3 guys who are 22 years old or younger - Ekblad (1st overall, 4th season), Malgin (4th rounder, 3rd season), and McCann (1st rounder, 4th season). All three of them are 22.

 

McCann and Malgin play on the 3rd line, and Ekblad plays on the top D pairing.

 

They have 8 1st rounders in the lineup. 

 

The Flyers have 6 guys who are 22 years old or younger - Aube-Kubel (2nd rounder, rookie), Konecny (1st rounder, 3rd season), Lindblom (5th rounder, rookie), Patrick (1st rounder, 2nd season), Provorov (1st rounder, 3rd season), Sanheim (1st rounder, 2nd season). 

 

TK is on the 1st line, Patrick and Lindblom are on the 2nd, NAK is on the 4th, Provorov is on the top D pairing, and Sanheim is on the 3rd pairing.

 

They have 9 1st rounders in the lineup. 

 

 

At first glance, not only do we have more younger guys in the lineup than the Panthers, but - 

- They are expected to play larger roles than those of the Panthers by virtue of their lineup position.

- They are less experienced overall than the Panthers young guys.

 

The Panthers also have a future HOF goaltender, and we most certainly do not. 

 

Both teams have young coaches who jumped levels to reach the NHL (Boughner from the OHL to the NHL, and Hakstol from NCAA to NHL). Boughner is in his 2nd year coaching at this level, Hak in his 4th.

 

Just looking at some top teams and how many guys under 22 they have - 

Nashville (1)

Columbus (2)

Tampa (4)

Toronto (4)

Minnesota (2)

Boston (5)

Winnipeg (4)

NY Islanders (2)

San Jose (2)

Vancouver (4)

 

So the Panthers are right in the middle, whereas the Flyers lead the pack. 

 

Does any of this explain why we're continually 2 years away from being 2 years away? Next year we'll likely add two more (Frost, Myers) or maybe three (Vorobyev?). What about NAK and Allison? Up front, we could be losing Simmonds, Lehtera, Raffl, Weal, and Weise could be a 13th or waived. Again, that's a huge infusion of youth and a significant loss in experience. They're not all great, mind you, and certainly half of them are replacement level. But it's still a lot of players to break in. 

 

Just a few idle observations on what this team looks like compared to the rest of the NHL. 

 

 

These are good points.  

Despite the amount of youth on the team, I am of the opinion that this team is not two years away from anything.

They are at this point, just a decent coaching staff away from being highly competitive.  

 

Maybe it's Hakstol, maybe it's not.  I actually feel like he's been adapting more quickly this year, isn't holding his original plan as precious and making changes that have positive effects more quickly than in years past.   At 5x5, they're actually a pretty good team right now.

 

The devastating PK and now faltering PP are absolutely killing this team that would actually be pretty decent if their special teams were even average.  I don't know if it's Hakstol to blame for that or Lappy and Knoblach and I don't even care anymore.  They're miserable and on paper at least, their fecklessness is what is keeping the FLyers from being a very good club right now.  

 

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, brelic said:

The Panthers also have a future HOF goaltender, and we most certainly do not.

 

And this part is critical in the development of the young team.

 

Mistakes happen along the way especially with a young team.

 

Having a guy who can cover and help them out when the mistakes happen is huge. 

 

Flyers haven't had this. Elliott has played better yes lately but for huge stretches of this year and last he has been part of the problem not the solution.

 

It is why it is crucial to let Hart develop down in the AHL work on his issues and then he had never dealt with in the WHL.

 

Then will help insure that his skill/confidence will continue the needed upward trend because he will be the key piece in this club finally arriving.

 

Because with the free agent crop next year at goalie it won't get much better than Elliott till then.

 

Bob might be the top free agent and i really can't see Columbus letting him go with no better option in the waiting.

 

So guess we'll see if they ever become more than two years away from being two years away.

 

Even one of their young key players Barkov is just 23  years old but in his 6th year of the NHL.

 

Wonder where Patrick will be when he gets into his 6th year. Giroux will be 33 turning 34 by then.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

At 5x5, they're actually a pretty good team right now.

 

 

Yeah actually 2nd in the NHL.

 

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

The devastating PK and now faltering PP are absolutely killing this team that would actually be pretty decent if their special teams were even average.  I don't know if it's Hakstol to blame for that or Lappy and Knoblach and I don't even care anymore.

 

 

And really not a whole lot of worrying/caring can help.

 

At what point does Hextall get more involved to find out what the problem is??

 

When does he start holding Knoblach or Lappy accountable for helping their head coach??? When does he hold Hak accountable for the issues that continue to plague this team. I wish i had an answer.

 

They are winning despite these struggles....when will Ron help the team out??? Surely he can't be waiting for JVR to come riding in on his magical white horse to save the team....that can't be his last hope can it?? If so they are doomed.

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Yeah actually 2nd in the NHL.

 

 

 

And really not a whole lot of worrying/caring can help.

 

At what point does Hextall get more involved to find out what the problem is??

 

When does he start holding Knoblach or Lappy accountable for helping their head coach??? When does he hold Hak accountable for the issues that continue to plague this team. I wish i had an answer.

 

They are winning despite these struggles....when will Ron help the team out??? Surely he can't be waiting for JVR to come riding in on his magical white horse to save the team....that can't be his last hope can it?? If so they are doomed.

 

Read one theory on Twitter that basically suggested that the guys on the team like Lappy and guys like him and Mac are the only thing preventing Hakstol

from losing the room entirely.  

 

Dont know if I buy it, but it would certainly be ironic if so. 

 

I don’t think the power play needs a whole lot. JVR could help with net front presence or slot shots, but what they really need is to just get that goalie moving more.  Which to me means keeping Jake and G together on the PP to get the puck across the ice smoothly through traffic instead of around it. 

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

I don’t think the power play needs a whole lot

 

3 for the last 39 dead last in the NHL since October 13th oh it needs something..

 

...a lot in fact.

 

Let's start with an exorcism!

[flyer4ever]

Finishing 8 or 9 in the conference gets you exactly what the Flyers are. Fair to middling. Mediocre. Check out TSN.ca tonight. They rank every teams young core players.

 

[OccamsRazor]

21 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

Finishing 8 or 9 in the conference gets you exactly what the Flyers are. Fair to middling. Mediocre. Check out TSN.ca tonight. They rank every teams young core players.

 

 

So what has the ranking of the cores got anything to do with it?

 

Most of the top talent on those list went straight to the NHL so drafting top 5 yearly will do that for the clubs.

 

Flyers mediocrity has kept them from doing that said the year the won the chance to take Patrick who will be good but he is also not in the realm of McDavid, Matthews or McKinnon catergory.

 

And it is merely someone's opinion.

 

Potential only gets you so far and no banners will be huge for winning.

 

It's Cups or bust.

 

#otherissuesbesidescorerankings

[RonJeremy]

As far as being two years away goes, Carter Hart is probably also two years away from making the team, unless he steps up and dominates the AHL in the second half. So if he makes the team in two years , then it’s maybe another two years before he is a top notch reliable guy. In that time frame we will add some of our young guys like Frost ,Rubtsov, Meyers, etc, but Giroux, Voracek, JVR and Simmonds will be on the downside of their careers, Simmonds may not even be here, possibly Voracek too .

 

So what do we plan to do about goaltending in the next 2-4 years while we have our big 4 still on the team and consider ourselves contenders. Neuvy and Elliot  and Pickard  are gone after this year, Stolarz has not played enough to determine if he is healthy or a NHL goalie. Lyon looks like our only legit guy who is close to NHL ready, but when is he gonna get called up? If he is in our plans for next year , you would expect him to get some games to see if he can handle the NHL. With all this uncertainty, I wouldn’t be surprised if we went after Bobrovsky in the off-season, I don’t see us going with mediocre veterans  or unproven goalies for another 2-4 years.

[murraycraven]

15 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

I don’t see us going with mediocre veterans  or unproven goalies for another 2-4 years.

 

sadly, we have had medicore goalies for a long time.  

 

I don't see this team being a true contender for at least 2-3 years but that can all change if Hextall decides to get aggressive.  Obviously, a goalie that is average would help.  With Elliott I feel like he is either very good or very bad.   

 

The, PK according to Hextall at the end of last season, was supposed to be addressed but he did nothing to help it.   

 

They need to fix the PK and the PP in order to become a dangerous team.  From where I am sitting I think the PP will turn around but the PK is and has been abysmal.  I feel bad for JvR and Simmer with Weal in the middle.   

[vis]

 

2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

As far as being two years away goes, Carter Hart is probably also two years away from making the team, unless he steps up and dominates the AHL in the second half. So if he makes the team in two years , then it’s maybe another two years before he is a top notch reliable guy. In that time frame we will add some of our young guys like Frost ,Rubtsov, Meyers, etc, but Giroux, Voracek, JVR and Simmonds will be on the downside of their careers, Simmonds may not even be here, possibly Voracek too .

 

So what do we plan to do about goaltending in the next 2-4 years while we have our big 4 still on the team and consider ourselves contenders. Neuvy and Elliot  and Pickard  are gone after this year, Stolarz has not played enough to determine if he is healthy or a NHL goalie. Lyon looks like our only legit guy who is close to NHL ready, but when is he gonna get called up? If he is in our plans for next year , you would expect him to get some games to see if he can handle the NHL. With all this uncertainty, I wouldn’t be surprised if we went after Bobrovsky in the off-season, I don’t see us going with mediocre veterans  or unproven goalies for another 2-4 years.

Agree on all points here.  If the Flyers want to be legit Cup contenders in the near future, they need to address the goaltending in a big way.  If they bring in stop gaps on two year deals while they wait for Hart to develop, they aren't moving the needle much on contender status, imo.  Rather, they would just be pushing contention further down the line.  Plus, whoever they sign has to be comfortable mentoring Hart and moving aside in a few years.  I think it's going to be tough to adequately address goaltending between no and when Hart is expected to take over.

[King Knut]

16 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

3 for the last 39 dead last in the NHL since October 13th oh it needs something..

 

...a lot in fact.

 

Let's start with an exorcism!

 

But they have the talent and they know how to do it.  That's what I mean.  The PP seems like it's just a matter of getting back on track and doing what worked before.

 

The PK has been terrible forever.  It was bad before Hakstol wasn't it?  It's just a thing that's been bad forever, so I feel like the answers aren't coming from within.

 

The PP just isn't doing what it used to with it's puck movement and I simply don't know why.  It's extremely odd.  

 

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, murraycraven said:

 

sadly, we have had medicore goalies for a long time.  

 

I don't see this team being a true contender for at least 2-3 years but that can all change if Hextall decides to get aggressive.  Obviously, a goalie that is average would help.  With Elliott I feel like he is either very good or very bad.   

 

The, PK according to Hextall at the end of last season, was supposed to be addressed but he did nothing to help it.   

 

They need to fix the PK and the PP in order to become a dangerous team.  From where I am sitting I think the PP will turn around but the PK is and has been abysmal.  I feel bad for JvR and Simmer with Weal in the middle.   

 

They have, but I think under Hextall, that's been more a matter of necessity than anything else.  

I do wonder, now that the reality of Carter Hart actually probably needing time to adapt is setting in, if Hextall will try to sign a bigger name UFA goalie this summer (there will be a few) to bridge between now and when Hart or whoever is ready.  I'd be behind it.  I think it'll take the pressure off Hart and let him gain his game naturally.  It could also buy more time for Sandstrom and the others to make their mark and get thir games ready to go.  

 

Either way, with Stolarz, Pickard, Elliott and Neuvy all on expiring contracts, this summer is sure going to be interesting for the goalie situation.  

 

The PK is a distinct enigma.  It makes no sense that it's still this bad and hasn't been remotely addressed.  It's literally losing them games and last year that could have been the difference between first place and missing the playoffs altogether.

 

How do you not do anything to fix that? 

How is it not the question you have to answer seventeen times every night?  

 

The PP should be fine, I agree and I think it will get better too, but no matter who is where, it's not going to happen until they start passing more.  I think they need to keep Jake on PP1.  I'm not sure who the next best passer is (Patrick maybe?) and that guy needs to be on PP1 to distribute to JVR/Simmer/whoever.  Konecny isn't a passer.  

 

The gang on BSH radio had a keen observation last week regarding the PP1 unit which is that the two dudes they moved off it experimentally were Jake and Simmer...  One guy who's contract is up at the end of the year and another who doesn't have a NTC.   Could they just be experimenting with the PP of the future right now?

 

Food for thought.

 

 

[vis]

@brelic not to be critical of the post, but trying to figure out the link between Florida's and Flyers' respective rosters and the Flyers'  "2 years away" loop.  

[King Knut]

15 minutes ago, vis said:

 

Agree on all points here.  If the Flyers want to be legit Cup contenders in the near future, they need to address the goaltending in a big way.  If they bring in stop gaps on two year deals while they wait for Hart to develop, they aren't moving the needle much on contender status, imo.  Rather, they would just be pushing contention further down the line.  Plus, whoever they sign has to be comfortable mentoring Hart and moving aside in a few years.  I think it's going to be tough to adequately address goaltending between no and when Hart is expected to take over.

 

This is true and I agree with it, but between the Vegas expansion and the salary cap and the UFA availability, this simply wasn't a possibility without giving up key prospects for quite a while.  And giving up prospects on a team in the middle of a rebuild doesn't make much sense either.

 

Last year was the first year Hextall had any cap room to do anything and he had 5 goalies under contract and there were no good UFA goalies to pick from.

 

Hextall did however POUNCE on Pickard when he came up and that to me suggests that he might have been ready to pull the trigger on a goalie if one had been available.  

 

This summer, he will have 2 goalies under contract and both are currently (and look to remain) in the minor leagues for at least another year.  So I'd seriously consider someone a possibility for Hextall this summer or even at the deadline depending on how their teams are looking then.  I actually think Talbot might be a good choice, but he, Bob and Varlamov are all within a year of each other age wise.  I think Hextall has to make a play for one of them if they're not asking for too long of a deal.  If he has to overpay him to sit on the bench as a backup for a two years once Hart (or whoever) is finally ready, would that be such a bad thing? Not in my book. 

 

Semyon Varlamov, G, COL
NHL.com rank: 48

Sergei Bobrovsky, G, CBJ
NHL.com rank: 69

Cam Talbot, G, EDM
NHL.com rank: 107

Petr Mrazek, G, CAR
NHL.com rank: 175

Mike Smith, G, CGY
NHL.com rank: 184

Robin Lehner, G, NYI

[vis]

4 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I think Hextall has to make a play for one of them if they're not asking for too long of a deal.  If he has to overpay him to sit on the bench as a backup for a two years once Hart (or whoever) is finally ready, would that be such a bad thing? Not in my book. 

Agree on this.  I won't have a problem if one of them ends up an overpriced backup once Hart is ready.  Hart should have a manageable deal at that point.  I think it's more about finding the right fit in terms and ability and mentorship.  Talbot may be the right guy.

[King Knut]

6 minutes ago, vis said:

Agree on this.  I won't have a problem if one of them ends up an overpriced backup once Hart is ready.  Hart should have a manageable deal at that point.  I think it's more about finding the right fit in terms and ability and mentorship.  Talbot may be the right guy.

 

I don't know why, but I kinda have a good feeling about Talbot.  For some reason, I get the feeling that Edmonton is just such a cluster of an organization that a lot of decent players could excel when they leave.  And Hall is NOT the only reason I say that, but he is evidence to support it.  After all Tablot's been through, he might revel in the chance to be the man on a team that friggin' needs him and knows it (as opposed to a team that seems to only focus on one player) until he's 33-34, and then be the big brother for a few years while his contract runs out.  

 

I don't see Bob going for that and Frankly I see Varlamov looking at Rantanen and his Avalanche and deciding he wants to stay right where he is.  

[King Knut]

24 minutes ago, vis said:

@brelic not to be critical of the post, but trying to figure out the link between Florida's and Flyers' respective rosters and the Flyers'  "2 years away" loop.  

 

For the record (and as an aside) I've never felt the Flyers were two years away since Pronger got hurt.  I had a brief moment of believing maybe 2010 was possible again in the Jagr year, but that team vanished utterly in the 2nd round.  

 

Since then they went from a team in denial of a desperate need of a rebuild, to a team self destructing itself deeper into talent and age debt (Kinda like the kings of the last three years, but at least the kings won two cups before their disastrous choices) then on to the Hextall tenure which began and ended with a 3-5 year rebuild plan.  

 

This is year 5 and the fact of the matter is the talent is still coming up and developing.  That said, I firmly believe the only reason this team isn't VERY good right now with the talent it does have is a combination of bad injury luck and bad coaching.  

 

They are a good team 5x5, and Hakstol DID make adjustments to the 5x5 game after the disastrous home games early in the season, so I'll ease off him for a tad... except to say that I have no idea how the PK and PP have become as terrible as they are.  There's no excuse. 

 

Are they a PK and a PP away from being a very competitive team?  I don't know.  I'll tell you more after the next two games.  

[vis]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I don't know why, but I kinda have a good feeling about Talbot.  For some reason, I get the feeling that Edmonton is just such a cluster of an organization that a lot of decent players could excel when they leave.  And Hall is NOT the only reason I say that, but he is evidence to support it.  After all Tablot's been through, he might revel in the chance to be the man on a team that friggin' needs him and knows it (as opposed to a team that seems to only focus on one player) until he's 33-34, and then be the big brother for a few years while his contract runs out.  

Not sure whee fault lies in EDM, but he did have a good run when he first got there.  He seems like a good guy and was an understudy to Hank.

 

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I don't see Bob going for that and Frankly I see Varlamov looking at Rantanen and his Avalanche and deciding he wants to stay right where he is.  

 I'm not sure how good either would be mentoring their eventual replacement and accepting a backup role.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like a "good ol' Ontario boy" would be better suited for that role.  

 

Varlamov may not have a choice to stay in Colorado with Grubauer in the fold as well.  

[vis]

1 minute ago, King Knut said:

Are they a PK and a PP away from being a very competitive team?  I don't know.  I'll tell you more after the next two games.  

Define "competitive."  I certainly think they are competitive now, meaning that they should be a PO team.  But I want them to be a team that people circle before the season even starts and expect them to be a conference finalist.  That is what I mean when I say "legit contender."  I still think there are 2-3 years away from that.

 

The PP should be something easily addressed.  They have the talent to be deadly.  They have had good success in the past.  But something has gone terribly wrong.  Maybe they are too stale/predictable.

 

The PK is an absolute wreck.  A top flight goalie would help, but that's not happening soon.  

 

 

[JR Ewing]

13 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I don't know why, but I kinda have a good feeling about Talbot.  For some reason, I get the feeling that Edmonton is just such a cluster of an organization that a lot of decent players could excel when they leave.  And Hall is NOT the only reason I say that, but he is evidence to support it. 

 

Edmonton IS a screwed up organization, but I think there's a couple of things going on with Taylor Hall:

-He was excellent as an Oiler. Had a pair of top ten finishes in scoring, including 6th place (like he was last year with New Jersey) in 2014. Was jobbed out of a 2nd All-Star nomination after the morons at the PHWA decided to give it to Ovechkin, who didn't even play RW that season.

-As good as he was in EDM, he later said that he didn't listen to the coaches or play within the structure they wanted, and admitted that he had some growing up to do.

 

He's not much different than the player he was in Edmonton. It's just that his games aren't ending after midnight where most of the fans and media live, and he decided to apply himself a bit more.

 

 

13 minutes ago, King Knut said:

After all Tablot's been through, he might revel in the chance to be the man on a team that friggin' needs him and knows it (as opposed to a team that seems to only focus on one player) until he's 33-34, and then be the big brother for a few years while his contract runs out. 

 

If anything, Talbot's problem has been that the Oilers focused too much on him in net, and they drowned him in Games Played. From 2017 thru today, he's started 73, 67 and 13 of 18 so far this year, including all 13 starts in the 2017 playoffs. When he's on, he's quite good, but there are some consistent issues which have crept into his game, the worst of which is that 13 times, last year, he surrendered the first goal on the first shot he saw. It has happened another 3 times this year so far.

 

[brelic]

1 hour ago, vis said:

@brelic not to be critical of the post, but trying to figure out the link between Florida's and Flyers' respective rosters and the Flyers'  "2 years away" loop.  

 

I'm sure I had some kind of link in my head at the time I wrote the title and then the post... But I ended up down a rabbit hole and it became more of a random musing on our team composition.

 

I had a long post all typed up in response, but it was just as random as the original, so I'll spare all of you from my muddled thoughts lol.

 

I will add this. The Isles lost Tavares but are sitting in 2nd in the Metro. Where would the Flyers be without Giroux? I'm guessing not 2nd in the Metro. The Trotz Factor?

 

The Rangers publicly announced a rebuild and sold off spare parts. They are 3rd in the Metro. 

 

Montreal has also managed to be very competitive in a year they were expected to be bad.

 

This probably won't hold... but maybe it will.

 

What gives?