BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 People are forgetting that there are two big kids coming through the pipe that play that abrasive style that Tkachuk plays. Don't dismiss Wade Allison or Isaac Ratcliffe yet because they aren't here. Allison might be a future 30 goal guy and Ratcliffe is a leadership type that is growing into his 6'6 frame and more importantly, is playing with some serious snarl the past couple of years. The Flyers are going to be OK on this front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 I agree on those two, I mentioned Allison in this thread,, I think he is the closest guy in size and temperament to Tkachuk that we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 7 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: People are forgetting that there are two big kids coming through the pipe that play that abrasive style that Tkachuk plays. Don't dismiss Wade Allison or Isaac Ratcliffe yet because they aren't here. Allison might be a future 30 goal guy and Ratcliffe is a leadership type that is growing into his 6'6 frame and more importantly, is playing with some serious snarl the past couple of years. The Flyers are going to be OK on this front. I don't get to see Allison but Ratcliffe has really upped his "mean" game. He's currently 3rd in pims in the OHL while tied with Frost for 11th in goals with 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 4 hours ago, flyercanuck said: I don't get to see Allison but Ratcliffe has really upped his "mean" game. He's currently 3rd in pims in the OHL while tied with Frost for 11th in goals with 19 That’s good , we have too many nice guys on the team. A mean guy with skill and size is exactly what we need. Better to be taking a penalty for being aggressive , than our usual lazy hooking and holding penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 6 hours ago, flyercanuck said: I don't get to see Allison but Ratcliffe has really upped his "mean" game. He's currently 3rd in pims in the OHL while tied with Frost for 11th in goals with 19 The things is that those two still need some seasoning in the AHL too. I know you know/think this too so this isn't just to you but i want other to know they will be given a chance next year to steal a spot on the roster at camp but if Frost, Allison and Ratcliffe need time in the AHL that doesn't make them a bust. They will be in the NHL in due time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 On 11/28/2018 at 7:25 PM, brelic said: This whole thing sheds more light on the Reese situation. The way he was dismissed never sat well with me. That and not addressing the current staff's shortcomings sooner are Hextall's only real mistakes in my book. I understand where he was coming from on just about everything else. But to choose Berube over Reese after what Reese had done with Mason and while knowing full well you were quite likely to fire Berube at the end of the year, was downright insane. The fact that he hired a nutritionist and wouldn't let the Old timers into the locker room after games? Suck it up cowgirls. This isn't a kindergarten dance recital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: The things is that those two still need some seasoning in the AHL too. I know you know/think this too so this isn't just to you but i want other to know they will be given a chance next year to steal a spot on the roster at camp but if Frost, Allison and Ratcliffe need time in the AHL that doesn't make them a bust. They will be in the NHL in due time. What concerns me (and this is just a mild concern, not an actual "NO THEY'RE DOING IT WRONG" concern) is what has always concerned me about the Flyers and top notch young talent (of which they've had precious little over the years). Specifically that some teams get really talented kids who lead juniors in scoring, and they welcome to the pros by building a line and a system that lets those kids do what they do best. You're an amazing skater and puck mover, but aren't good in the corners? We'll adapt so you can set up goals. stuff like that. NOT THE FLYERS. You could argue that they maybe did this with Lindros, but the team he joined had little going for it. It wasn't until two years later when they added LeClair and Renberg that things really took off. That's why I have some trepidation about the way Patrick is being treated and the way I expect Frost to be treated next year. Maybe just put them in a position to do what they do best for a year or two and compensate around them, get them going and THEN add in pinches of actual responsible NHL hockey. The best example of this working lately has been Kane coming into Chicago. They had the team already. The had the core. He was the extra garnish that the fates tossed to them. They didn't have to force him to play the game the way Toews did. They had Toews to do that. It's why whenever I complain about Crosby or that draft lottery in '07, pens or blackhawks fans always say, "You'd take my guy in a heartbeat." and the fact is, if the Flyers had either of those guys, I don't believe they would have been half as good. McDavid or Matthews either most likely. They Flyers have NEVER been good at creating a system on the ice that caters to the talent they have and have always forced the talent to adhere to the system. Lavvy had a slightly more "any which way you can" approach, but certainly never played up to JVR's strengths intentionally. It's just a nagging suspicion i have. not an actual complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 21 minutes ago, King Knut said: That's why I have some trepidation about the way Patrick is being treated and the way I expect Frost to be treated next year. Sorry i am not following your concern. Patrick has been held pointless in the last 8 games and is -5 in that stretch. I don't think it is on the staff so much as to why he has been ineffective....at some point he has to look in the mirror and fix it himself. 36 minutes ago, King Knut said: The best example of this working lately has been Kane coming into Chicago. And it's a little unfair to compare him to Patrick Kane too he or Frost although good young players are nowhere close to that caliber of player either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Sorry i am not following your concern. Patrick has been held pointless in the last 8 games and is -5 in that stretch. I don't think it is on the staff so much as to why he has been ineffective....at some point he has to look in the mirror and fix it himself. And it's a little unfair to compare him to Patrick Kane too he or Frost although good young players are nowhere close to that caliber of player either. Patrick's first instinct - the *moment* he gets the puck - is to dish it to someone else or find a way to dump it. To the point of absurdity - like two-foot passes to a guy in worse traffic than he is, or dinky flip passes that defenders just bat away. He'll likely figure it out over the years, but I've got to say I'm not impressed with his game the way I was with Provorov and Konecny very early on. You could see they had that spark to their game. Not sure what is missing other than time, perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, brelic said: Not sure what is missing other than time, perhaps? Yeah would be nice if they had another center option besides Weal or Lehtera so he could be dropped down to the 3rd line till his game improves. Vecchione is at tops a 3rd line center and Misha would be a good option to but he to needs to improve his game and it would be unfair to bring him back and slot him into the 2nd line role. So what do they do?? Keep playing Nolan till he eventually comes around??? Or try and trade for another center?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Sorry i am not following your concern. Patrick has been held pointless in the last 8 games and is -5 in that stretch. I don't think it is on the staff so much as to why he has been ineffective....at some point he has to look in the mirror and fix it himself. You may not following my concern, but you've made my point for me. And admitedly, it's a very mild concern. More a curiosity than a concern. It took Giroux three seasons to really get going and he was already 20 when he came into the NHL. Because the Flyers didn't say, "hey I think this kid has talent, let's just make the team do whatever they need to to set him up to make points happen and cover his butt in the ugly areas and in his own zone. A lot of top notch talent over the years that get drafted, focus on scoring first and making points happen and then a few years in, ease off and try to learn to be a better all around player. Their scoring eases off, but the team gets better. Kane's a bad example because A) I don't know that he's doing that and B) his team's getting worse because the guys that compensated for him early on are just getting older. But Crosby's a good example, but I think you see the same thing if you go back through the years. Even back to guys like Yzerman and Sakic. They both spent their formative NHL years in the hundreds of points on terrible/mediocre teams. They rounded their games off and their teams started winning cups (although they both got a ton of help after the first few seasons too). My curiosity is, would it benefit the team to just build the system around letting guys like Konecny, Ghost, Patrick and Frost do what they do for a few years? Even if they aren't necessarily "better", do the Flyers become more fun to watch, does the league at large pay more attention to them the way it does to the Maple leafs now... and are the FLyers in a much better position to win in a year or two (like the leafs) than they are now. Or should they just hire a good coach like Babcock (kinda my overriding thinking). 9 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: And it's a little unfair to compare him to Patrick Kane too he or Frost although good young players are nowhere close to that caliber of player either. No, he's definitely not. But he's the only guy currently in the Flyers' system (or anyone else's system for that matter) leading the OHL in points (at a pace closer to Tavares' in 2007, but not near Kane's). Closest I could come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, King Knut said: It took Giroux three seasons to really get going and he was already 20 when he came into the NHL. Well in Giroux's case he was eased in unlike Patrick Giroux centered the 3rd line with Richie on the top line and Briere as the 2nd line. I wish the Flyers had another option at center so he could drop to the 3rd. Giorux centered JVR and Asham which helped him not have to play heavy minutes allowing him to play on the PP. He played and upped his game in that Stanley Cup run putting up 21 points in 23 games. So i think that is what you are getting at with Patrick being relied on so heavy to start with?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 47 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: So i think that is what you are getting at with Patrick being relied on so heavy to start with?? It probably has to do with his draft position. But yes, I think a true 2C (Duchene? Nylander? Kadri?) could help out Patrick by pushing him down to 3C and giving him more breathing room (and lower QoC) to develop his game and gain more confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, brelic said: Duchene? This is a guy i wouldn't mind as a 2nd line center....he will be on the market this offseason. Would it be worth a look to make a trade for him during the season?? Elliott or Lyon and Jake Voracek for Anderson and Matt Duchene??? Is that a crazy trade? Overpaying for one year of Duchene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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