Wild vs. Maple Leafs 12/1/18 @ 6:00PM CST at the X

[Tomdog]

58 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

You have to wonder what is up with this team where they feel they only need to show up for two of three periods...

 

Maybe they think that if it's ok for their #1 defenseman to "pace" himself for extra minutes, they should do it too.

Great lead by example.

[Hockey-78]

3 hours ago, rottenrefs said:

Under two head coaches, two GM's... That covers it for about the last 6 years.

We can find common nominators though from those years to this day...

[Hockey-78]

5 hours ago, McMahon 6 said:

Anyone else think Stalock needs more games? I'm not gonna rag on Doobs for a couple of bad games: that's par for the course IMO, especially when someone is overworked as much as he is. But I'd hate to see another repeat of "Doobs has nothing left in the tank for the playoffs" movie...

Unfortunately we will see that once more, Mac. Is he overworked since he demands the ice time he's getting or does the coaching staff really believe this season would somehow be different than the previous ones? Now his excellent first 15 games are only a faint memory and his last 7 have been ugly. Not that all the losses have been his fault but softies are now going in and the composure is gone, he's all over the crease.

 

IMO it's a no brainer Stalock needs more games. And we have Kahkonen in the AHL posting remarkable numbers, another win with excellent SV%. This stubbornness to let DD start so many games year in, year out... I hope it ends very soon but like I said Mac, I think I wouldn't be surprised if we witness this charade till our annual 1st round exit.

[ClusterChuck]

11 hours ago, Hockey-78 said:

Unfortunately we will see that once more, Mac. Is he overworked since he demands the ice time he's getting or does the coaching staff really believe this season would somehow be different than the previous ones? Now his excellent first 15 games are only a faint memory and his last 7 have been ugly. Not that all the losses have been his fault but softies are now going in and the composure is gone, he's all over the crease.

 

IMO it's a no brainer Stalock needs more games. And we have Kahkonen in the AHL posting remarkable numbers, another win with excellent SV%. This stubbornness to let DD start so many games year in, year out... I hope it ends very soon but like I said Mac, I think I wouldn't be surprised if we witness this charade till our annual 1st round exit.

Agree with you and McM-6..BB starts the season by saying he plans to give Dubnyk more rest but reverts the the 'Hot hand'. If he continues this way of thinking we might as well trade Stalock and bring up Kahkonen. But then he'll probably sit too much too.

There has to be some reason why Stalock doesn't play, Do they not have much faith or like his game?

I've never liked the hot hand mentality because what happens when it cools? You go to a rusty player. The tandem of Fern/Roly went decently but I doubt we'll ever see that again.

[McMahon 6]

@Hockey-78 I'm afraid you're right, 78. It's looking like another season of overworked Dubnyk, overused Suter, and 1st round exit. Gawd, I hope we're wrong: after all, we're all Wild fans, and it sure would be sweet to see the team take that elusive next step.

 

Can't really blame Doobs for last night: two goals off Seeler, and another one off a glove. I was disgusted at seeing three Wild players around the net on the GWG--one next to each goal post and the other one in front--and none of them making an effort to engage a Leafs player. The only thing that accomplished was saving the Leafs the trouble of getting bodies in front for deflections and rebounds.

 

When I clamor for pucks on net and bodies in front, I'm talking about the other net.

[Alexandron]

I think it was an excellent team’s effort (41 shots). Wish to see that effort for the next three games on a road trip too with at least 2 wins. Hope, with a Stalock in the net in all three games. Sadly, but Dubnyk again lost 4 goals last game(5th was an EN) on 23 shots. Agree not all was on him, but still 4 goals per game 3 games already in a row is too much. We should give him some mental and physical rest , especially against the Edmonton team.

 

[Icechipper]

Well, I guess Ennis is expendable now that Nylander is back. As long as we're still paying him......

[Math]

20 hours ago, Alexandron said:

I think it was an excellent team’s effort (41 shots). Wish to see that effort for the next three games on a road trip too with at least 2 wins. Hope, with a Stalock in the net in all three games. Sadly, but Dubnyk again lost 4 goals last game(5th was an EN) on 23 shots. Agree not all was on him, but still 4 goals per game 3 games already in a row is too much. We should give him some mental and physical rest , especially against the Edmonton team.

 

 

That was a typical stingy loss. They maybe had a slow start, but the Wild competed very well. Like you said, the effort was there, and nothing to blame to Dubnyk and the others. There are nights like this, where you have all bounces against you, no luck, nothing turning on your side. Don't forget that we played against one of the top team in the league. These Leafs are a machine. Fargocase put a coin on a Caps back-to-back Stanley Cup champions, I'll put money on the Leafs on my side. 

 

Throughout the season, we will get undeserved losses, also terrible losses like the one vs. Arizona, but we will also managed to steal 2 points here and there. At the end, all these outcomes reach an equilibrium.

 

Agree with the use of Dubnyk. We are seeing the same thing that happened to Price and the Habs'. Dubnyk need to rest in a mental point of view, and I would start Stalock for a least the two next games.

[EJ0226]

First off, the Wild need to stop playing like they are a team that they are not. They are a team that has to work 100% for 60 minutes from everybody. They are not a team that can lay off for half the game or have even one player take time off. They are not a team that can turn it up and win it after playing poorly all game.

 

That last goal was a joke by Suter. First poorly handled on the blue line. He seen the guy coming. He could have dumped or passed it to the left side of the ice but instead just lazily tries to do a beyond half ass spin. Then he is in front of the Leafs player and just very lazily tries to stay in front of him and just tumbles over by himself. Suter didn't even have his stick in front of him to at least try and poke the puck or try to gain control of it. You could see that Suter most of thought he is so damn great that the other player will just let off of him and do what Suter wants.

I will say this, Suter and Koviu should not be on the on ice during critical times. I am willing to give Parise a pass but there is a lot of times I rather see somebody else then him. They need to stop falling back on these guys cause they keep falling backwards themselves.

 

Like somebody said, 3 coaches, 2 GMs and same results and effort. So either the owner is causing a huge rift or the leadership of the team is very, very flawed and doesn't care about winning one way or the other as they got their locked down high paid contracts. As a fan, you got to be insulted. To hear Bruce, Suter, Koivu, Parise, etc say we have to do this or that, clean this up or that up, skate harder, etc is the most broken record of all time. They claim they watch the tapes and such yet go out and do the exact same thing over and over. They claims are so full of bullchit that it's petrified over, chit on again and petrified again so they don't even know what it is. I feel for the coaches, including Yeo, as the supposedly core/leadership players can do what they want with no fear of any punishment. We seen Yeo have a breakdown and not even on player reacts to it. In fact some where busy just chatting away paying zero attention to Yeo. That should never happen even if you don't like the coach. Sadly, this wouldn't stop until our last GMs contracts expire and players retire or leave. I still stand by Suter and Parise will never hoist the cup much less play in a conference final at least on the Wild. I honestly suspect they will never get more then 2 wins in the second round. I fear us Wild fans still have years of suffering before we might have a legit shot to get to the Cup.

[CreaseAndAssist]

2 hours ago, EJ0226 said:

First off, the Wild need to stop playing like they are a team that they are not. They are a team that has to work 100% for 60 minutes from everybody. They are not a team that can lay off for half the game or have even one player take time off. They are not a team that can turn it up and win it after playing poorly all game.

 

That last goal was a joke by Suter. First poorly handled on the blue line. He seen the guy coming. He could have dumped or passed it to the left side of the ice but instead just lazily tries to do a beyond half ass spin. Then he is in front of the Leafs player and just very lazily tries to stay in front of him and just tumbles over by himself. Suter didn't even have his stick in front of him to at least try and poke the puck or try to gain control of it. You could see that Suter most of thought he is so damn great that the other player will just let off of him and do what Suter wants.

I will say this, Suter and Koviu should not be on the on ice during critical times. I am willing to give Parise a pass but there is a lot of times I rather see somebody else then him. They need to stop falling back on these guys cause they keep falling backwards themselves.

 

Like somebody said, 3 coaches, 2 GMs and same results and effort. So either the owner is causing a huge rift or the leadership of the team is very, very flawed and doesn't care about winning one way or the other as they got their locked down high paid contracts. As a fan, you got to be insulted. To hear Bruce, Suter, Koivu, Parise, etc say we have to do this or that, clean this up or that up, skate harder, etc is the most broken record of all time. They claim they watch the tapes and such yet go out and do the exact same thing over and over. They claims are so full of bullchit that it's petrified over, chit on again and petrified again so they don't even know what it is. I feel for the coaches, including Yeo, as the supposedly core/leadership players can do what they want with no fear of any punishment. We seen Yeo have a breakdown and not even on player reacts to it. In fact some where busy just chatting away paying zero attention to Yeo. That should never happen even if you don't like the coach. Sadly, this wouldn't stop until our last GMs contracts expire and players retire or leave. I still stand by Suter and Parise will never hoist the cup much less play in a conference final at least on the Wild. I honestly suspect they will never get more then 2 wins in the second round. I fear us Wild fans still have years of suffering before we might have a legit shot to get to the Cup.

 

Koivu I understand why only for his ability to win draws.  Suter though...with his mobility compromised, no freakin' way.  That should've been Spurgeon out there to quarterback the attack with the extra player on the ice.  I've said this on the last 3 in the Box episode and I'll say it here.  IMO, the whole choice to switch up the Top 4; was because of SUTER's issues than it was Dumba's.  Suter doesn't have the speed or quickness to cover up defensively...and foot speed wise he's a liability.  He needs someone quicker so that's why he's back with Spurgeon.  They figure Brodin at least has the quickness to cover for Dumba's sojourns into the offensive zone, but whether he's strong enough..that's another kettle of fish.  

[sweetshot]

15 hours ago, EJ0226 said:

First off, the Wild need to stop playing like they are a team that they are not. They are a team that has to work 100% for 60 minutes from everybody. They are not a team that can lay off for half the game or have even one player take time off. They are not a team that can turn it up and win it after playing poorly all game.

 

That last goal was a joke by Suter. First poorly handled on the blue line. He seen the guy coming. He could have dumped or passed it to the left side of the ice but instead just lazily tries to do a beyond half ass spin. Then he is in front of the Leafs player and just very lazily tries to stay in front of him and just tumbles over by himself. Suter didn't even have his stick in front of him to at least try and poke the puck or try to gain control of it. You could see that Suter most of thought he is so damn great that the other player will just let off of him and do what Suter wants.

I will say this, Suter and Koviu should not be on the on ice during critical times. I am willing to give Parise a pass but there is a lot of times I rather see somebody else then him. They need to stop falling back on these guys cause they keep falling backwards themselves.

 

Like somebody said, 3 coaches, 2 GMs and same results and effort. So either the owner is causing a huge rift or the leadership of the team is very, very flawed and doesn't care about winning one way or the other as they got their locked down high paid contracts. As a fan, you got to be insulted. To hear Bruce, Suter, Koivu, Parise, etc say we have to do this or that, clean this up or that up, skate harder, etc is the most broken record of all time. They claim they watch the tapes and such yet go out and do the exact same thing over and over. They claims are so full of bullchit that it's petrified over, chit on again and petrified again so they don't even know what it is. I feel for the coaches, including Yeo, as the supposedly core/leadership players can do what they want with no fear of any punishment. We seen Yeo have a breakdown and not even on player reacts to it. In fact some where busy just chatting away paying zero attention to Yeo. That should never happen even if you don't like the coach. Sadly, this wouldn't stop until our last GMs contracts expire and players retire or leave. I still stand by Suter and Parise will never hoist the cup much less play in a conference final at least on the Wild. I honestly suspect they will never get more then 2 wins in the second round. I fear us Wild fans still have years of suffering before we might have a legit shot to get to the Cup.

 

I just don't see effort being an issue 98% of the time. Most players will have a bad day once in a while whether they are sick, had a bad flight, ate some bad food or whatever, but for the vast majority of the time the effort is there.

[ClusterChuck]

5 hours ago, sweetshot said:

 

I just don't see effort being an issue 98% of the time. Most players will have a bad day once in a while whether they are sick, had a bad flight, ate some bad food or whatever, but for the vast majority of the time the effort is there.

I agree that most of the time the effort is there. Koivu even looks more engaged than last year and Parise is feeling good and showing it. Suter seems to be in the part of the season where it's his 'Getting up for work on a Tuesday'. A long way to the weekend/PO's.

 

20 hours ago, EJ0226 said:

 

I will say this, Suter and Koviu should not be on the on ice during critical times. I am willing to give Parise a pass but there is a lot of times I rather see somebody else then him. They need to stop falling back on these guys cause they keep falling backwards themselves.

 

 

It's the safe thing to do. Safe doesn't get you far.

We need to put some of our youth in these situations so we can see how they handle it. Until then they'll never know their options in case they're needed.

Say our 4th line is dominant all game yet in the last few minutes out comes line 1, Take a timeout and put them right back out there while 4th line sits late in the game.

[Alexandron]

6 hours ago, sweetshot said:

 

I just don't see effort being an issue 98% of the time. Most players will have a bad day once in a while whether they are sick, had a bad flight, ate some bad food or whatever, but for the vast majority of the time the effort is there.

I do not think so at all. The effort is not for our team's play every game 98% there. We are not talking about each personal player mental and health status readiness for each game. For example, in games against Buffalo and Chicago - our team's effort was about 30%, against Coyotes - about 60%, the third period was practically a complete 0% effort when we lost 3 goals in a first 6 min. of the 3rd period, and then had only 5 ineffective shots through that entire period by losing 3:4 in regulation without showing any will to win. It was a complete gave up effort on that game. But last game against  Toronto we had maybe about 80% of the real effort. Here is a nice team's effort example at the game on Sunday between Ducks and Capitals(you can watch a recap or condensed video on YouTube 12/2/18) when after losing 1:5 Ducks were able to put 5 unanswered goals with a win of 6:5 in regulation on the Capitals home ice arena. Probably that is a game of the season 2018-2019.

[sweetshot]

23 minutes ago, Alexandron said:

I do not think so at all. The effort is not for our team's play every game 98% there. We are not talking about each personal player mental and health status readiness for each game. For example, in games against Buffalo and Chicago - our team's effort was about 30%, against Coyotes - about 60%, the third period was practically a complete 0% effort when we lost 3 goals in a first 6 min. of the 3rd period, and then had only 5 ineffective shots through that entire period by losing 3:4 in regulation without showing any will to win. It was a complete gave up effort on that game. But last game against  Toronto we had maybe about 80% of the real effort. Here is a nice team's effort example at the game on Sunday between Ducks and Capitals(you can watch a recap or condensed video on YouTube 12/2/18) when after losing 1:5 Ducks were able to put 5 unanswered goals with a win of 6:5 in regulation on the Capitals home ice arena. Probably that is a game of the season 2018-2019.

There are many reasons why a team might score consecutive/unanswered goals in a short period of time. It may have nothing to do with a difference in effort between the teams.

Sometimes, the opponent is just better than you are.

The outcome of any particular game, win or loss, is not necessarily directly proportional to effort.

Maybe 98% was too high, but my point was that I don't see a lack of effort being a major issue with the current Wild team.

And as far as the Capitals/Ducks game, was it the Ducks lack of effort that got them behind 5-1?

[Alexandron]

1 hour ago, sweetshot said:

There are many reasons why a team might score consecutive/unanswered goals in a short period of time. It may have nothing to do with a difference in effort between the teams.

Sometimes, the opponent is just better than you are.

The outcome of any particular game, win or loss, is not necessarily directly proportional to effort.

Maybe 98% was too high, but my point was that I don't see a lack of effort being a major issue with the current Wild team.

And as far as the Capitals/Ducks game, was it the Ducks lack of effort that got them behind 5-1?

You already answered. 98% is too high for the Wild team, this is why we are good team but not great (like IllaIlla said. ). We were talking for years, that in general, our team is not playing hard for the entire 60 min.game, full efforts are not there 100 %, but weaker (maybe for an average 60% per game), which is not enough. And personally for me, the real team's effort is equal to the will to win performance (not all the time I do see that) as well as to the hard 60 min. play per game.

Agree that the outcome of the game and the effort are not proportional. I mentioned that before too. I was willing to see a nice team's effort even if we lose against of Toronto. And that happened then.

[sweetshot]

53 minutes ago, Alexandron said:

You already answered. 98% is too high for the Wild team, this is why we are good team but not great (like IllaIlla said. ). We were talking for years, that in general, our team is not playing hard for the entire 60 min.game, full efforts are not there 100 %, but weaker (maybe for an average 60% per game), which is not enough. And personally for me, the real team's effort is equal to the will to win performance (not all the time I do see that) as well as to the hard 60 min. play per game.

Agree that the outcome of the game and the effort are not proportional. I mentioned that before too. I was willing to see a nice team's effort even if we lose against of Toronto. And that happened then.

Similar to the vast majority of NHL teams.

[Fargocase]

13 hours ago, sweetshot said:

 

I just don't see effort being an issue 98% of the time. Most players will have a bad day once in a while whether they are sick, had a bad flight, ate some bad food or whatever, but for the vast majority of the time the effort is there.

 

It's a given that "expert" fans will always complain that the players didn't play hard enough.  Blacking Refs a distant second.  And, of course, even if the goalie had no chance, he'll still be blamed.  Also the Haters will rag on the team's top players,  for the umpteenth time.