OccamsRazor Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 14 minutes ago, FD19372 said: Until he trades 3 first round picks for Craig Anderson. Not enough it will require 4. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 6 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: “The cupboard is full. There are a tremendous amount of prospects,” Fletcher said Wednesday at his introductory press conference. “This year, we have nine draft picks — we have an extra third and an extra seventh. We have cap space and we have good players. There’s everything here to be successful and that’s our goal and that’s what we’re going to do. It’s set up for success.” “I’m a big believer in you need all three phases to build a championship team," Fletcher said. "Again, mainly the draft, but you also have to use trades and free agency. You have to have good people, everybody has to be pulling the same way. I do think culture is very important in any organization to be successful.” “When the time is right, we will get to the contract,” Fletcher said. “But certainly there will be a lot of work starting right away in terms of getting to know the file, getting to know the individual, communicating with the agent, and who knows when there’s a fit. But we’ll keep pushing.” And it was Hextall who started an analytics department to use advanced metrics in analyzing player data. “I think it’s all critical,” Fletcher said. “We had a pretty good analytics department in Minnesota that we were using more and more. And when I talk about process, that was part of the process. Maybe some areas I’ll tweak a little bit, just from personal preference. But there’s been a lot of thought into building this organization and it’s in a good place.” As well as Hextall drafted and stock piled picks trades and free agency was not his strong suit. I hope Fletch can improve upon that. Certainly time will tell. Those words sound good. If the GM knows what he's doing. But if he takes the "cupboard is full" to mean he can trade Frost and a 1st to bring Parise and his Homer type contract to Philly then he doesn't know what he's doing. Saying you need to do all 3 phases is good. But if you have to overpay to make a trade it's not good. And signing FAs in a crappy year for FAs makes zero sense, unless you're going full Homer and just signing them for the sake of blowing cap. Fletchers signings of Parise and Suter are exactly the types of FA signings that can destroy your team for years. I'll bet Wild fans are just drooling over the thought of those two for SEVEN MORE YEARS! That's Homers blueprint...the guy who fired the GM who wouldn't do that cause he wanted long term sustainability. It doesn't exactly make me confident there aren't more "Bryz" contracts in our future. Even though he worked some magic getting rid of Pronger/LeCavalier/Hartnell (I liked the player, not the contract) Hextall didn't even make it through Homers McDud contract. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Those words sound good. If the GM knows what he's doing. But if he takes the "cupboard is full" to mean he can trade Frost and a 1st to bring Parise and his Homer type contract to Philly then he doesn't know what he's doing. Saying you need to do all 3 phases is good. But if you have to overpay to make a trade it's not good. And signing FAs in a crappy year for FAs makes zero sense, unless you're going full Homer and just signing them for the sake of blowing cap. Fletchers signings of Parise and Suter are exactly the types of FA signings that can destroy your team for years. I'll bet Wild fans are just drooling over the thought of those two for SEVEN MORE YEARS! That's Homers blueprint...the guy who fired the GM who wouldn't do that cause he wanted long term sustainability. It doesn't exactly make me confident there aren't more "Bryz" contracts in our future. Even though he worked some magic getting rid of Pronger/LeCavalier/Hartnell (I liked the player, not the contract) Hextall didn't even make it through Homers McDud contract. All I can say is I hope and pray he doesn't do anything crazy as you said by shipping off a Farabee or Frost to go for it now type of move. I won't sit and say what I think he will or won't do. People can learn from past mistakes. I am living proof of that. I was 29 when I first got married not 20 or 21 and f**led it up royally. But guess what I learned from it and I got it right the second time. So there is hope people are doomed simply because they have made prior bad choice we have the ability to learn from them. Not saying Chuck will. However I hope he will. I want a return to what seemed like every year there were in it type of playoff runs. Except this time I want to win it all. So let's see if Chuck can balance all 3. Edited December 6, 2018 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Hard to get excited about this. Fletch has never built an elite team. People don't change... usually. To me, this is a clear massage from the Flyers: we are content with just being a mediocre NHL team. Sorry, but I don't see this any other way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Anyone else get the sense that Scott - and *not* Holmgren - is really behind all of this? In the press conference yesterday, it was clear that Scott was in charge. I got the same feeling on the Hexy firing presser. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 4 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Hextall didn't even make it through Homers McDud contract. When you put it that way, sheesh The McGM killer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 56 minutes ago, brelic said: Anyone else get the sense that Scott - and *not* Holmgren - is really behind all of this? In the press conference yesterday, it was clear that Scott was in charge. I got the same feeling on the Hexy firing presser. at the end of the day he IS the boss. I clearly believe he was the catalyst in all of this... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted December 6, 2018 Author Share Posted December 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, murraycraven said: at the end of the day he IS the boss. I clearly believe he was the catalyst in all of this... Same here and that’s the scary part. Again, I think Holmgren is just a soldier for his boss. His boss says we need to makes changes, Homer goes into action. Scary. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 1 minute ago, vis said: Same here and that’s the scary part. Again, I think Holmgren is just a soldier for his boss. His boss says we need to makes changes, Homer goes into action. Scary. it is scary but I also think that is how Snider was as well. I am fine with it if Fletch gets us closer to the end game. I thought his presser yesterday was good and I liked that he seems to have really analyzed some of his not so favorable trades in his time with the Wild. Definitely seems like a bright guy and I am willing to give him a shot. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 19 hours ago, vis said: They take input and advice from others. So, maybe he's not entirely to blame for the failures in Minnesota. Parise/Suter is often brought up. I remember pretty vividly the owner campaigning publicly for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 One thing i would like Fletch to do is show Gordon down in LV the door...i don't think he has done much with that club at all... ...a fresh face down there may help some of these kids out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 1 minute ago, radoran said: Parise/Suter is often brought up. I remember pretty vividly the owner campaigning publicly for that. Leipold wanted Parise and Suter because during the 2011 Entry Draft in St Paul, he asked Bettman if the Wild were in the running for a Winter Classic. Bettman told Leipold that if he wanted a Winter Classic, he needed star power on the roster, as the Wild had none. So Leipold signs Parise and Suter in 2012 and lo and behold in 2016 the Wild get a Stadium Series game. There there was was bringing in Thomas Vanek because he was Jason Pominville's best friend. At the time Mike Yeo was the coach and didn't want Vanek on the roster. Felt he didn't fit the Wild's defensive style. He had to be convinced that Vanek would be good for the team. The Wild signed Vanek and he was pretty good the first year and a disaster the second. He was bought out in the third year of a three year deal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: One thing i would like Fletch to do is show Gordon down in LV the door...i don't think he has done much with that club at all... ...a fresh face down there may help some of these kids out. Careful what you wish for. Fletcher has a habit of rushing prospects before they are ready... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 1 minute ago, IllaZilla said: Careful what you wish for. Fletcher has a habit of rushing prospects before they are ready... It' isn't about rushing them it's about the not really growing an maturing under Gordon's watch. It is time for change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 14 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: As well as Hextall drafted and stock piled picks trades and free agency was not his strong suit. He didn't do a lot of in-season, "fix it" type of deals*, but he did have a pretty strong track record of trades when cleaning up Homer's messes: The Hartnell deal fetched the pick he flipped to LA for the pick that became Vorobyev (and, yes, also included Umburglar - gotta give to get, amirite?) He got the picks for Timonen one of which went to Nashville in the Konecny deal. The Coburn deal fetched Gudas as well as a pick he flipped to Nashville for what became Konecny. The Lecavalier deal brought a pick he combined with another for the 1st that became Rubstov. And his own "mess" with Schenn brought in the 1sts that became Frost and O'Brien. Still a long way to go to see how all of them turn out, but that's not a bad track record of turning **** into Shineola. I do believe he would have made deals if the deals being offered made sense. Like a lot (most) on this board, he wasn't really interested in flipping young talent/high picks for "fix it" moves a la Homer's Kubina, Prospal, Versteeg, etc. On the FA front, JVR was arguably the #2 FA option on the market last season and he locked him up. And in-house signings like Couturier, Ghost - even the Schenn deal wasn't terrible. Of course then you also have Gordon, Weise, Neuvirth, Elliott... I got nothin' And, to be fair, Homer had his moments as well. Of course, when you fire off a shotgun (IIRC, he averaged 6-7 trades a year and had several years over 10) you're likely to hit something * the deal for Mrazek, while it didn't turn out great, was him taking a shot to "fix it" in-season at a reasonable cost for a return with potential short-term upside (that, again, didn't pan out). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, radoran said: he did have a pretty strong track record of trades when cleaning up Homer's messes Yeah he did pretty well in his purge deals just not very well is trades bringing in guys to help in those deals. Mrazek was a attempt at it...and it failed miserably...strange he could add kids just not NHL ready talent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: just not NHL ready talent. He got some "NHL ready talent' but it just wasn't particularly remarkable. Sam Gagner (Pronger deal), Radko Gudas (Coburn), Valtteri Filppula (Streit) are "NHL players" just not "great" players. Heck, they keep rolling ol' Jordan Weal (VLC) out there. With that and the previous moves mentioned, that's half of his 21 moves as GM. Five more are low round/AHL deals. And if they're looking to "fix" the 3C, it's more than likely it'll be something along the lines of a Gagner/Filppula "type" than a big splash. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 11 minutes ago, radoran said: Jordan Weal (VLC) out there At least not tonight..they have the immortal Lehterable back in the lineup tonight....guess Hak can't blame that on Ron anymore... also the Norris candidate Andrew "Pylon" Macdonald in as well....SMFH!!!!!!! #whocanweblamenext 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I have to say i do like to read this...i have always believed in looking right under your nose before looking outside... ...just one thing Ron was reluctant to do...start here and then if there is no answer look outward... ...reading between the lines Hakstol you can't blame Fletch for your lineups... ...going for back to back wins.....before taking on the Cup favorite Sabres saturday!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Rick Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 So do you Flyer fans believe this Fletcher will leave Hakstol in the rest of this year and maybe beyond? Or do you think he is just waiting to make it look good before he drops the axe on him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: ...just one thing Ron was reluctant to do...start here and then if there is no answer look outward... I think a lot of people - including probably most on this board - were "reluctant" to do things like make trades to plug "holes" this year that may be filled next year internally. For example, trading away a Ghost and/or Sanheim for a Quick that could then be "blocking" Hart in a couple years. Or signing, say, a 31-year-old Grabner to a three-year deal who might then be "blocking" a Vorobyev, Rubstov, Laughton, etc.? 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: You think ol' Fletch just might like to have an old friend who's in the locker room on a regular basis helping him "get to know a situation" before he has "a reaction"? Not as a "spy" or a "saboteur" but someone the GM trusts implicitly who can give some day-to-day insight as to how the team responds to Hakstol, how Hakstol runs the team, makes decision, etc.? 'cause I do... Edited December 6, 2018 by radoran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, radoran said: You think ol' Fletch just might like to have an old friend who's in the locker room on a regular basis helping him "get to know a situation" before he has "a reaction"? Not as a "spy" or a "saboteur" but someone the GM trusts implicitly who can give some day-to-day insight as to how the team responds to Hakstol, how Hakstol runs the team, makes decision, etc.? 'cause I do... Sure however Dave is an old friend of Wilson's too...and they are both alums of North Dakota so he has verified that he had reach out to him first before they knew who the GM was going to be, which one Fletch is the besties with between the two i don't care. And i would expect Wilson would be tell Fletch anything he would like to especially when it comes to further evaluating Hak and weather he should stay on beyond this season. Winning can solve everything. Don't and there will be many who could be elsewhere next season...from the coaching staff to the players and equipment guys. I don't think anyone is safe....nor should they. Edited December 6, 2018 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: he has verified that he had reach out to him first before they knew who the GM was going to be And it is widely reported that he took the job because of Fletcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 26 minutes ago, radoran said: And it is widely reported that he took the job because of Fletcher. Awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNSOTA Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 On 12/3/2018 at 7:58 PM, Icechipper said: Fletcher does know how to spend to the cap. And he let's his coaches coach. Those are his plusses. You mean allows certain frustrating Finnish captains and his two other NTNM buddies coach the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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