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Chuck Fletcher it is...

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14 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Until he trades 3 first round picks for Craig Anderson.

 

Not enough it will require 4.

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6 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

“The cupboard is full. There are a tremendous amount of prospects,” Fletcher said Wednesday at his introductory press conference. “This year, we have nine draft picks — we have an extra third and an extra seventh. We have cap space and we have good players. There’s everything here to be successful and that’s our goal and that’s what we’re going to do. It’s set up for success.”

 

“I’m a big believer in you need all three phases to build a championship team," Fletcher said. "Again, mainly the draft, but you also have to use trades and free agency. You have to have good people, everybody has to be pulling the same way. I do think culture is very important in any organization to be successful.”

 

“When the time is right, we will get to the contract,” Fletcher said. “But certainly there will be a lot of work starting right away in terms of getting to know the file, getting to know the individual, communicating with the agent, and who knows when there’s a fit. But we’ll keep pushing.”

 

 And it was Hextall who started an analytics department to use advanced metrics in analyzing player data. 

 

“I think it’s all critical,” Fletcher said. “We had a pretty good analytics department in Minnesota that we were using more and more. And when I talk about process, that was part of the process. Maybe some areas I’ll tweak a little bit, just from personal preference. But there’s been a lot of thought into building this organization and it’s in a good place.”

 

As well as Hextall drafted and stock piled picks trades and free agency was not his strong suit.

 

I hope Fletch can improve upon that.

 

Certainly time will tell.

 

 

 

 

 

 Those words sound good. If the GM knows what he's doing. But if he takes the "cupboard is full" to mean he can trade Frost and a 1st to bring Parise and his Homer type contract to Philly then he doesn't know what he's doing.

 

 Saying you need to do all 3 phases is good. But if you have to overpay to make a trade it's not good. And signing FAs in a crappy year for FAs makes zero sense, unless you're going full Homer and just signing them for the sake of blowing cap. Fletchers signings of Parise and Suter are exactly the types of FA signings that can destroy your team for years. I'll bet Wild fans are just drooling over the thought of those two for SEVEN MORE YEARS! That's Homers blueprint...the guy who fired the GM who wouldn't do that cause he wanted long term sustainability.

 

 It doesn't exactly make me confident there aren't more "Bryz" contracts in our future. Even though he worked some magic getting rid of Pronger/LeCavalier/Hartnell (I liked the player, not the contract) Hextall didn't even make it through Homers McDud contract. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 Those words sound good. If the GM knows what he's doing. But if he takes the "cupboard is full" to mean he can trade Frost and a 1st to bring Parise and his Homer type contract to Philly then he doesn't know what he's doing.

 

 Saying you need to do all 3 phases is good. But if you have to overpay to make a trade it's not good. And signing FAs in a crappy year for FAs makes zero sense, unless you're going full Homer and just signing them for the sake of blowing cap. Fletchers signings of Parise and Suter are exactly the types of FA signings that can destroy your team for years. I'll bet Wild fans are just drooling over the thought of those two for SEVEN MORE YEARS! That's Homers blueprint...the guy who fired the GM who wouldn't do that cause he wanted long term sustainability.

 

 It doesn't exactly make me confident there aren't more "Bryz" contracts in our future. Even though he worked some magic getting rid of Pronger/LeCavalier/Hartnell (I liked the player, not the contract) Hextall didn't even make it through Homers McDud contract. 

 

 

 

All I can say is I hope and pray he doesn't do anything crazy as you said by shipping off a Farabee or Frost to go for it now type of move.

 

I won't sit and say what I think he will or won't do.

 

People can learn from past mistakes. I am living proof of that.

 

I was 29 when I first got married not 20 or 21 and f**led it up royally.

 

But guess what I learned from it and I got it right the second time.

 

So there is hope people are doomed simply because they have made prior bad choice we have the ability to learn from them.

 

Not saying Chuck will. However I hope he will.

 

I want a return to what seemed like every year there were in it type of playoff runs. Except this time I want to win it all.

 

So let's see if Chuck can balance all 3.

Edited by OccamsRazor

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Hard to get excited about this.  Fletch has never built an elite team.  People don't change... usually.  To me, this is a clear massage from the Flyers: we are content with just being a mediocre NHL team.  Sorry, but I don't see this any other way.

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Anyone else get the sense that Scott - and *not* Holmgren - is really behind all of this? In the press conference yesterday, it was clear that Scott was in charge. I got the same feeling on the Hexy firing presser.

 

 

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4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Hextall didn't even make it through Homers McDud contract. 

 

When you put it that way, sheesh

 

The McGM killer

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56 minutes ago, brelic said:

Anyone else get the sense that Scott - and *not* Holmgren - is really behind all of this? In the press conference yesterday, it was clear that Scott was in charge. I got the same feeling on the Hexy firing presser.

 

 

 

 

at the end of the day he IS the boss.   I clearly believe he was the catalyst in all of this...   

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3 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

at the end of the day he IS the boss.   I clearly believe he was the catalyst in all of this...   

Same here and that’s the scary part.  Again, I think Holmgren is just a soldier for his boss.  His boss says we need to makes changes, Homer goes into action.  Scary. 

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1 minute ago, vis said:

Same here and that’s the scary part.  Again, I think Holmgren is just a soldier for his boss.  His boss says we need to makes changes, Homer goes into action.  Scary. 

 

it is scary but I also think that is how Snider was as well.  I am fine with it if Fletch gets us closer to the end game.  I thought his presser yesterday was good and I liked that he seems to have really analyzed some of his not so favorable trades in his time with the Wild.  Definitely seems like a bright guy and I am willing to give him a shot.   

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19 hours ago, vis said:

They take input and advice from others.  So, maybe he's not entirely to blame for the failures in Minnesota.

 

Parise/Suter is often brought up.

 

I remember pretty vividly the owner campaigning publicly for that.

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One thing i would like Fletch to do is show Gordon down in LV the door...i don't think he has done much with that club at all...

 

...a fresh face down there may help some of these kids out.

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1 minute ago, radoran said:

 

Parise/Suter is often brought up.

 

I remember pretty vividly the owner campaigning publicly for that.

Leipold wanted Parise and Suter because during the 2011 Entry Draft in St Paul, he asked Bettman if the Wild were in the running for a Winter Classic. Bettman told Leipold that if he wanted a Winter Classic, he needed star power on the roster, as the Wild had none. So Leipold signs Parise and Suter in 2012 and lo and behold in 2016 the Wild get a Stadium Series game.

 

There there was was bringing in Thomas Vanek because he was Jason Pominville's best friend. At the time Mike Yeo was the coach and didn't want Vanek on the roster. Felt he didn't fit the Wild's defensive style. He had to be convinced that Vanek would be good for the team. The Wild signed Vanek and he was pretty good the first year and a disaster the second. He was bought out in the third year of a three year deal.

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13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

One thing i would like Fletch to do is show Gordon down in LV the door...i don't think he has done much with that club at all...

 

...a fresh face down there may help some of these kids out.

Careful what you wish for. Fletcher has a habit of rushing prospects before they are ready...

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1 minute ago, IllaZilla said:

Careful what you wish for. Fletcher has a habit of rushing prospects before they are ready...

 

It' isn't about rushing them it's about the not really growing an maturing under Gordon's watch. It is time for change.

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14 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

As well as Hextall drafted and stock piled picks trades and free agency was not his strong suit.

 

He didn't do a lot of in-season, "fix it" type of deals*, but he did have a pretty strong track record of trades when cleaning up Homer's messes:

 

The Hartnell deal fetched the pick he flipped to LA for the pick that became Vorobyev (and, yes, also included Umburglar - gotta give to get, amirite?)

 

He got the picks for Timonen one of which went to Nashville in the Konecny deal.

 

The Coburn deal fetched Gudas as well as a pick he flipped to Nashville for what became Konecny.

 

The Lecavalier deal brought a pick he combined with another for the 1st that became Rubstov.

 

And his own "mess" with Schenn brought in the 1sts that became Frost and O'Brien.

 

Still a long way to go to see how all of them turn out, but that's not a bad track record of turning **** into Shineola.

 

I do believe he would have made deals if the deals being offered made sense. Like a lot (most) on this board, he wasn't really interested in flipping young talent/high picks for "fix it" moves a la Homer's Kubina, Prospal, Versteeg, etc.

 

On the FA front, JVR was arguably the #2 FA option on the market last season and he locked him up. And in-house signings like Couturier, Ghost - even the Schenn deal wasn't terrible. Of course then you also have Gordon, Weise, Neuvirth, Elliott... I got nothin' 👺

 

And, to be fair, Homer had his moments as well. Of course, when you fire off a shotgun (IIRC, he averaged 6-7 trades a year and had several years over 10) you're likely to hit something 😀

 

 

* the deal for Mrazek, while it didn't turn out great, was him taking a shot to "fix it" in-season at a reasonable cost for a return with potential short-term upside (that, again, didn't pan out).

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2 minutes ago, radoran said:

he did have a pretty strong track record of trades when cleaning up Homer's messes

 

Yeah he did pretty well in his purge deals just not very well is trades bringing in guys to help in those deals.

 

Mrazek was a attempt at it...and it failed miserably...strange he could add kids just not NHL ready talent. 

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3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

just not NHL ready talent. 

 

He got some "NHL ready talent' but it just wasn't particularly remarkable.

 

Sam Gagner (Pronger deal), Radko Gudas (Coburn), Valtteri Filppula (Streit) are "NHL players" just not "great" players. Heck, they keep rolling ol' Jordan Weal (VLC) out there.

 

With that and the previous moves mentioned, that's half of his 21 moves as GM. Five more are low round/AHL deals.

 

And if they're looking to "fix" the 3C, it's more than likely it'll be something along the lines of a Gagner/Filppula "type" than a big splash.

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11 minutes ago, radoran said:

Jordan Weal (VLC) out there

 

At least not tonight..they have the immortal Lehterable back in the lineup tonight....guess Hak can't blame that on Ron anymore...

 

also the Norris candidate Andrew "Pylon" Macdonald in as well....SMFH!!!!!!!

 

#whocanweblamenext

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I have to say i do like to read this...i have always believed in looking right under your nose before looking outside...

 

 

...just one thing Ron was reluctant to do...start here and then if there is no answer look outward...

 

 

...reading between the lines Hakstol you can't blame Fletch for your lineups...

 

 

...going for back to back wins.....before taking on the Cup favorite Sabres saturday!!! :ph34r:

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So do  you Flyer fans believe this Fletcher will leave Hakstol in the rest of this year and maybe beyond?  Or do you think he is just waiting to make it look good before he drops the axe on him?

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

...just one thing Ron was reluctant to do...start here and then if there is no answer look outward...

 

I think a lot of people - including probably most on this board - were "reluctant" to do things like make trades to plug "holes" this year that may be filled next year internally.

 

For example, trading away a Ghost and/or Sanheim for a Quick that could then be "blocking" Hart in a couple years.

 

Or signing, say, a 31-year-old Grabner to a three-year deal who might then be "blocking" a Vorobyev, Rubstov, Laughton, etc.?

 

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

  

 

You think ol' Fletch just might like to have an old friend who's in the locker room on a regular basis helping him "get to know a situation" before he has "a reaction"?

 

Not as a "spy" or a "saboteur" but someone the GM trusts implicitly who can give some day-to-day insight as to how the team responds to Hakstol, how Hakstol runs the team, makes decision, etc.?

 

'cause I do...

 

😎

Edited by radoran

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6 minutes ago, radoran said:

You think ol' Fletch just might like to have an old friend who's in the locker room on a regular basis helping him "get to know a situation" before he has "a reaction"?

 

Not as a "spy" or a "saboteur" but someone the GM trusts implicitly who can give some day-to-day insight as to how the team responds to Hakstol, how Hakstol runs the team, makes decision, etc.?

 

'cause I do...

 

Sure however Dave is an old friend of Wilson's too...and they are both alums of North Dakota so he has verified that he had reach out to him first before they knew who the GM was going to be, which one Fletch is the besties with between the two i don't care.

 

And i would expect Wilson would be tell Fletch anything he would like to especially when it comes to further evaluating Hak and weather he should stay on beyond this season. Winning can solve everything.

 

Don't and there will be many who could be elsewhere next season...from the coaching staff to the players and equipment guys.

 

I don't think anyone is safe....nor should they.

Edited by OccamsRazor

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2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

he has verified that he had reach out to him first before they knew who the GM was going to be

 

And it is widely reported that he took the job because of Fletcher.

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26 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

And it is widely reported that he took the job because of Fletcher.

 

Awesome.

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On 12/3/2018 at 7:58 PM, Icechipper said:

Fletcher does know how to spend to the cap. And he let's his coaches coach. Those are his plusses.

 

You mean allows certain frustrating Finnish captains and his two other NTNM buddies coach the team.

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  • Most Liked Posts in This Topic

    • 7
      Post
      You're right...Edmonton is trading McDavid.    The point is if you don't just throw draft picks in on trades all the time, some of them can turn into very good players.     Homer threw aways 1sts, 2nds 3rds, whatever, he didn't care. When Hextall made trades, the throw ins were coming back to us. That's part of the reason we have a prospect pool now. Homer left us with a pool alright...of vomit.    Neither GM won us a cup...but Hextall didn't win one in half the time...and left the team sitting in a lot better shape than Homer did. Fletcher steps in with some good pieces, a deep cupboard of prospects at every single position and a ton of capspace. Homer just couldn't take that anymore. MUST WIN NOW!
    • 6
      Post
      A few things...and what I'm about to say might surprise you.     I don't hate Chuck Fletcher.  But here are a few things you should know and what should concern you.     Obviously the decision from Flyers' higher ups to cut loose Ron Hextall was the thought his ideas were not enough about winning now.  Chuck Fletcher was given the same 'win now' mantra too; especially after we signed Ryan Suter and Zach Parise to their big, super long term contracts which are looking more and more like an albatross by the game.  But I won't blame Fletcher too much on that one, as that mandate to bring those two in came from the owner hoping to net the Winter Classic...instead we got a Stadium Series game.  But I digress..   Fletcher sold off picks and prospects looking for players that would help push the Wild from playoff contender to Stanley Cup contender.  Ultimately we never reached that true Stanley Cup contender status because this team was too old by the time he started making such moves.  Also, the big salaries diminished what was left in cap space and even though we spent to the roof the younger promising core didn't quite all turn out as awesome as some in our management expected them to.     So, one big advantage for your Flyers have, for the moment is that Chuck Fletcher did not draft these crop of prospects you have in your system and in development.  That is a good thing.  However, the bad thing is...don't get too attached because they might be shipped for 2nd tier players in the quest to add depth to your club.  See Martin Hanzal, see Matt Moulson, see Jason Pominville for how that all turned out.    He also might ship a star player with the hope of getting a slightly cheaper almost good guy like he did with the Brent Burns trade here.  We got Devin Setoguchi, prospect Charlie Coyle (who we're still waiting to see realize his potential) and a 1st round pick that was a total bust.  Not that great of a return for trading away a Norris trophy defenseman.  Fletcher also dealt Nick Leddy and at the time our best veteran defenseman (former Flyer Kim Johnsson) to Chicago for Cam Barker.  But he had some fairly good moves too; the trade of Cal Clutterbuck for Nino Niederreiter was pretty good from a points perspective.  Dealing a 4th round pick for Devan Dubnyk also seems like a pretty nice steal.   Signing Eric Staal for a 3-year deal at $3.5 million has certainly been a savvy move.     Yet, on the positive.  Chuck Fletcher wasn't afraid to pull the trigger.  He wasn't afraid to try to swing a deal, and his moves were far more bold and risky than the moves of his predecessor Doug Risebrough.  Risebrough's favorite move was the waiver wire.  While we drafted some tougher character guys at times in Fletcher's tenure, many of them failed to be an impact.   Fletcher may swing and miss, but rarely is he going to stand by and watch the pitch.    One other thing I'd point out is, get used to rushing young players.  Especially if its win-now.  The Wild burned a year of Dumba's entry level deal, giving him too many games before sending him back to junior anyway.  Prospects seasoning in the minors will get called up instead of letting them develop at their own, natural pace.  I think this is another area the Flyers would be wise to be wary of Fletcher's record because while it may seem to help fill holes in the short term in more or less guts your farm team.  Since the Wild moved their AHL affiliate to Iowa, they've never been in the playoffs.  Fletcher gets canned...prospects stay put and suddenly they're a winner and that means your prospects get meaningful time to develop in the AHL playoffs.  The AHL playoffs is a great place to let the prospects get tons of meaningful ice time, in high pressure situations.  Fletcher didn't seem to care as much about that and felt that a youngster could just get better through osmosis even if he was a regular healthy scratch with the big club.  IMO, that's not a good plan.     The Wild tried to win now, and ultimately it was probably 2-3 years too old to make it happen.   But how much pain will the Wild be in...saddled by those big contracts.  Fletcher's decision to grant them No Movement Clauses which further ties up your flexibility under the cap.  I know the agents wanted those, but they didn't have to give those out.  Great and painful example.  We extended then 35-year old center Mikko Koivu (a player who has never had 22 goals in an NHL season even though he's been our #1 center most of the time) to two more years AND gave him a no movement clause.  Sorry...but that's just awful.     And now Fletcher's yours...good luck!  
    • 6
      Post
      They fired Hextall because they found out he has Fios.
    • 4
      Post
      This is where I am.  I hope Fletcher - and Holmgren - have learned from past mistakes and put those lessons to good use.  However, I'm not feeling all that great about it.
    • 4
      Post
      With all the "Chuck Fletcher Negativity" going on around here, I think it's time I said a little something FOR the man.
      I did have something to say about him when his name was still a rumor, as seen here... Post #4...and I stand by all of that.
          I will say, I DO get Flyers fans frustrations here.
      Honestly, not many choices on the spot to replace Ron Hextall with so much of the season still to go.
      But, if I am a Flyer fan, I am more angry about the Hextall FIRING than the Fletcher hire...

      The fact that Philly even needed to go searching for a GM when the one they had was doing quite a nice job already and just needed more time to complete his work, was IMO extremely short sided.
      Ya'll can thank Holmgren for that.  But you guys know that already, dontcha?

      I think Fletcher is experienced enough to know what he is stepping into. If HIS boss is the one calling the shots on drafting and personnel, then Fletcher should fully expect to take ALL the backlash (even if all of it isn't his fault) due to the position he is in now. GM and VP....who knows...maybe with both titles, he will have more control over what goes on and Holmgren can fade further into the background...though ideally, "Homer" should be elsewhere doing something else NOT related to Flyers hockey...again, telling you guys something you already know.

      But back to Fletcher...
      Even though this is frustrating for Flyers fans and it seems some people want to focus on his errors during his Minnesota tenure, let's not lose sight of the fact that he DID take a boring, almost NO high end talent team that played trap and in three short seasons turned them into a playoff contender every year.

      I know the goal is to win a Cup, and I won't dispute that, but from where the Flyers are now (always on the edge of a competitive cliff), I would think turning the team into a perennial playoff team would be a very big step in the right direction. 
      What happens after that, Flyers fans can worry about then.....but first things first.

      Moving into the role as Philly GM, IMO, Fletcher has MUCH more to work with than when he took the reigns as Minnesota GM. The Flyers have some nice forwards, some dynamic, if still green defensive core pieces on the team already, and some down in the minors who may be ready within the next season or two.
      A big, big, difference from all the plugs and grinders he had to start with in St. Paul.

      His drafting strategy, while it COULD have been a bit more charged, was at least competent, and he DID come away with some nice players that formed the core that made Minny a playoff team just about every year.
      Granlund, Zucker, Dumba just off the top of my head were guys that were drafted under his tenure.

      He also is credited with getting guys nobody wanted and gave them a chance to be key pieces on the team as well.... Dubnyk is the obvious one, but also Eric Staal and even Jared Spurgeon, whom NOBODY gave a damned about till Fletcher picked him off some scrap heap and said, "Hey, you are gonna be a part of this team"

      The Flyers are already ahead of what the Wild were (minus the goaltending of course....Yes, I realize Philly has a big problem there....more than the Wild had), so I think, if you give the guy a chance, I think he could do well for the organization in the short term for sure.
      Long term will remain to be seen, but again, baby steps....and having a guy who knows how to turn things around from the GM's chair is a good place to start.

      So basically, what I am saying is, while Fletcher certainly has stepped on his own ^%$# a few times while Minnesota GM, I think it would be fair to try and give the guy a chance and see what he can do over the course of this season and next.

      I still feel Ron Hextall should have been left in his seat as GM, but given that is now in the rear view, fans can only focus on what is to come.
      Nothing is guaranteed, but if Fletcher really is the smart guy he likely is, then not only will he be good for the organization given the current circumstances, BUT, even better, he SHOULD learn from past mistakes...especially when he has lots of talent, both vets and young players, to work with, lots of cap room, and with some albatross contracts soon to come off the books in Philadelphia.

      And things could go even BETTER if Paul Holmgren keeps his nose out of the GM's and VP's business....  
    • 4
      Post
      Did we trade all the young good players for all the old veterans yet?  

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