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Chuck Fletcher it is...

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On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 7:27 AM, Mad Dog said:

Hard to get excited about this.  Fletch has never built an elite team.  People don't change... usually.  To me, this is a clear massage from the Flyers: we are content with just being a mediocre NHL team.  Sorry, but I don't see this any other way.

How is bringing in a new GM an indication of complacency???

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3 hours ago, sweetshot said:

How is bringing in a new GM an indication of complacency???

Where did he say anything about complacency? 

 

Bringing in a gm that will sell his soul to make the playoffs only to lose in the first round or an occasional serving round only to placate the blind food bar addicts is a return to the same myopic groundhog day we've suffered through for 40 years.

 

Rather than go through the pain of a full rebuild and have the patience to see the garden grow now that the seeds are planted. 

 

We are content with the short term gratification and delusion that is forever chasing rainbows. It is the very definition of "content with mediocrity." 

 

Which is what he said. Different from simply, "complacency."  

Edited by ruxpin

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What Hextall tried to taketh away Fletch gives...  

 

 

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1 hour ago, hf101 said:

What Hextall tried to taketh away Fletch gives...  

 

 

 

Hey they deserve it.

 

Seems like Hextall's way wasn't working any way.

 

The boys-brew-wings the way it was meant to be!

 

Bring on the Jets!

Edited by OccamsRazor
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10 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Where did he say anything about complacency? 

 

Bringing in a gm that will sell his soul to make the playoffs only to lose in the first round or an occasional serving round only to placate the blind food bar addicts is a return to the same myopic groundhog day we've suffered through for 40 years.

 

Rather than go through the pain of a full rebuild and have the patience to see the garden grow now that the seeds are planted. 

 

We are content with the short term gratification and delusion that is forever chasing rainbows. It is the very definition of "content with mediocrity." 

 

Which is what he said. Different from simply, "complacency."  

IMO the Flyers are mediocre now--my point was keeping the status quo would to me show complacency. Being content with mediocrity is complacency isn't it?

They may or may not have been on their way to rising above mediocrity under Hextall. They may or may not be under Fletcher. I don't see Comcast ownership accepting mediocrity.

I don't think that short term gratification and forever chasing rainbows is in any way being content with mediocrity. You may end up where you started, but it's done with the intent of putting a better product on the ice.

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6 minutes ago, sweetshot said:

IMO the Flyers are mediocre now--my point was keeping the status quo would to me show complacency. Being content with mediocrity is complacency isn't it?

They may or may not have been on their way to rising above mediocrity under Hextall. They may or may not be under Fletcher. I don't see Comcast ownership accepting mediocrity.

I don't think that short term gratification and forever chasing rainbows is in any way being content with mediocrity. You may end up where you started, but it's done with the intent of putting a better product on the ice.

 

I'm content with our disagreeing.  :)

 

But I think maddog (and me, for that matter) were talking about something entirely different...or I *thought* we were.

 

I'm changing to "thought" because I wholly disagree with the proposition that either Comcast or a significant portion of our fan base doesn't accept mediocrity.  So long as there is a round and/or maybe a second of the playoffs and they've made their money (because they've successfully deluded their myopic fan base), they're quite content.  The point of maddog's (IMO) accurate post.

 

If you think Comcast won't accept mediocrity, I would like to introduce you to their Xfinity customer service department.   

Edited by ruxpin
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I'm not changing into a fan of Fletcher any time soon.

 

And I was obviously starting to clamour for Hextall to be fired because I thought he was failing to address certain obvious gaping holes in the team--the coaching staff among them.

 

But is it possible that an in-season change in GM is going to have way more positive an effect on the team than I ever thought it could--or even should for that matter?   If it does, I think it actually stands to prove what Holmgren and Scott were saying.  If he really was ruling with an iron fist--i.e., shadow coaching, have an inept guy on the staff just because he was a reliable spy, controlling diet, bed time, bowel schedules, etc.--maybe the team just loosening up and the coach being able to move people around or adjust approach as he sees fit could be a world of difference.

 

I know I'm writing after a 6-2 drubbing of the Bwhataload Sabres and that's clearly affecting the question, but it's astounding to me if a change makes a huge difference even before any move is made (there'd be some affect just from players playing better to prevent being the one moved, but still).

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31 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I'm not changing into a fan of Fletcher any time soon.

 

And I was obviously starting to clamour for Hextall to be fired because I thought he was failing to address certain obvious gaping holes in the team--the coaching staff among them.

 

But is it possible that an in-season change in GM is going to have way more positive an effect on the team than I ever thought it could--or even should for that matter?   If it does, I think it actually stands to prove what Holmgren and Scott were saying.  If he really was ruling with an iron fist--i.e., shadow coaching, have an inept guy on the staff just because he was a reliable spy, controlling diet, bed time, bowel schedules, etc.--maybe the team just loosening up and the coach being able to move people around or adjust approach as he sees fit could be a world of difference.

 

I know I'm writing after a 6-2 drubbing of the Bwhataload Sabres and that's clearly affecting the question, but it's astounding to me if a change makes a huge difference even before any move is made (there'd be some affect just from players playing better to prevent being the one moved, but still).

 

Yeah too soon to tell. Interesting theory. I do think that the iron first stuff, if true, is a thing that can really screw up an organization to the point where it can't be healed. In which case Flyers' brass may have felt they simply had no choice.

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48 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I'm not changing into a fan of Fletcher any time soon.

 

And I was obviously starting to clamour for Hextall to be fired because I thought he was failing to address certain obvious gaping holes in the team--the coaching staff among them.

 

But is it possible that an in-season change in GM is going to have way more positive an effect on the team than I ever thought it could--or even should for that matter?   If it does, I think it actually stands to prove what Holmgren and Scott were saying.  If he really was ruling with an iron fist--i.e., shadow coaching, have an inept guy on the staff just because he was a reliable spy, controlling diet, bed time, bowel schedules, etc.--maybe the team just loosening up and the coach being able to move people around or adjust approach as he sees fit could be a world of difference.

 

I know I'm writing after a 6-2 drubbing of the Bwhataload Sabres and that's clearly affecting the question, but it's astounding to me if a change makes a huge difference even before any move is made (there'd be some affect just from players playing better to prevent being the one moved, but still).

 

this is pretty much like last year when we were beating really good teams and we sucked in the playoffs, it's nothing new. i'll put it this way unless hak wins us a stanley cup, he's out the door because he wants his own guy, only reason he's still here is because he wants to go to the playoffs. they know what he is, he's not good enough, they want us to get a winning a record so when the new coach comes in, it will take the team to a new level.

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1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

I'm content with our disagreeing.  :)

 

But I think maddog (and me, for that matter) were talking about something entirely different...or I *thought* we were.

 

I'm changing to "thought" because I wholly disagree with the proposition that either Comcast or a significant portion of our fan base doesn't accept mediocrity.  So long as there is a round and/or maybe a second of the playoffs and they've made their money (because they've successfully deluded their myopic fan base), they're quite content.  The point of maddog's (IMO) accurate post.

 

If you think Comcast won't accept mediocrity, I would like to introduce you to their Xfinity customer service department.   

So you think the move to replace the GM was a means to ensure "mediocrity"? I'm not going to disagree with that. Almost a blueprint of what Liepold(the owner) and Fletcher did with the Wild.

 

I think the last time I called Comcast for technical help I ended up talking to somebody in Bangladesh!

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Not sure if this was posted elsewhere, but it is a decent interview.

 

 

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8 hours ago, hf101 said:

Not sure if this was posted elsewhere, but it is a decent interview.

 

 

 

 

I couldn't see it here at work can't access twitter here so don't know if this part of the interview or not but I like his mindset here...

 

“I think it’s so important that you call up the right guy,” said Fletcher, whose inconsistent team plays in Calgary against the Pacific Division-leading Flames on Wednesday. “By that, I mean if somebody is clearly the best player down there, it’s really important to reward that. You want a meritocracy, you want the players in Lehigh Valley to think, ‘Hey, if I play well, it doesn’t matter my age or what round I was picked in, I have a chance to get called up.’ I saw Phil play last week and he played really well. He’s had a great start to the season, and Scott couldn’t say enough good things about him to Dave, so for us, it was a very simple decision.”

 

...this was one thing that Hextall was reluctant to do is bring the best guys up even if it was a guy who was older yet had been in the AHL awhile.

 

I have seen enough of Weal to know there has to be a better option in LV than him.

 

Good to see Varone get rewarded and this send a positive message to the other kids down there that hey if I play well I might get called up.

 

I think Mark Friedman should be the next call up to see if he can inject something into this blueline.

 

Folin for whatever reason has fallen out of favor so try Friedman in place of Mcdud he is a solid all around defenseman and I think this is his last year of being waiver exempt. Give him a shot nothing to lose but another game but maybe he can help.

 

Friedman is also a solid PK guy too.

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Can't help but think "things" are going to start happening soon.

 

For my money, any core group that doesn't include 6 is invalid. I would prefer to keep him over nearly everyone else on the roster, he should be untouchable. 

Watching him skate with the fast guys, use his reach, deke goalies, we haven't even really "seen" his shot, which is overwhelming...He's the best player on the blueline for this team, this year, and it isn't close. I don't care that 9 plays all the heavy minutes, he's struggling.  I find no fault 9's effort or abilities, I think 6's ceiling is higher. Keep those two for the core group.  

 

I also think move for a defenseman is coming. I hope it's a good young guy, think Drew Doughty...and it doesn't rip a hole through the line up.

Edited by mojo1917

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I think the dangerous thing right now is that we are 4 points away from dead last in the NHL and the best odds for Hughes or Kakko.

 

We are also 4 points out of 3rd in the Metro and an automatic playoff spot. 

 

I don't envy Fletcher. 

 

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10 minutes ago, brelic said:

4 points away from dead last in the NHL

 

Finally, some good news!

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7 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Finally, some good news!

 

I thought maybe Holmgrens car ran into Fletchers at high speed.

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7 hours ago, Podein25 said:
8 hours ago, brelic said:

4 points away from dead last in the NHL

 

Finally, some good news!

 

image.png.218c3c9fe412bafdc899fdc3ac3d5c2d.png

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30 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

image.png.218c3c9fe412bafdc899fdc3ac3d5c2d.png

 

Man oh man that would be an acceptable outcome to this season.

 

Patrick and Huges as the heir to the center throne...

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53 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Man oh man that would be an acceptable outcome to this season.

 

Patrick and Huges as the heir to the center throne...

 

Would that outcome suddenly make Patrick moveable?  I'm not throwing him out of town or anything, but just wondering.

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54 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Would that outcome suddenly make Patrick moveable?  I'm not throwing him out of town or anything, but just wondering.

 

I guess it could so what position would you move him for?

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I guess it could so what position would you move him for?

You know, I was going to include a position in my initial post but ended up thinking "damned if I know."

 

Because we're talking at the draft (wouldn't do it before knowing how the ping pong balls fall, anyway). It seems silly to trade him away for picks, though maybe).  If we haven't figured out goalie, I guess some kind of package for Dubnyk. Or similar. 

 

The best move, probably, is to keep him. Because if he gets back on track, that would be great down the middle. 

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8 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Would that outcome suddenly make Patrick moveable?  I'm not throwing him out of town or anything, but just wondering.

 

Trading him, and watching him blossom on another team....what could be more Philadelphia than that?

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12 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Would that outcome suddenly make Patrick moveable?  I'm not throwing him out of town or anything, but just wondering.

 

No.

 

Patrick stinks right now, but he's still a #2 overall pick and just 20 years old. 

 

Yes, it sucks that others in his draft year and adjacent to it are leaps ahead of him, but it's far too early to give up on him. 

 

The smarter move is to reduce his role to something more appropriate for where he is right now - like 3C.

 

I think the same is true of Provorov et al, btw. A true veteran top pairing defenseman would do wonders for our young corps. It will cost us, but I think it's worth it in the long run.

 

 

 

 

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I would look for this new GM to possibly try and make a deal with the team he was with formerly.  That has been a trend like Botterill getting Sheary from Pittsburgh as an example.  So its the Wild right?  Lets get that Minny fan going with this post.  LOL.  Chuckie?  Yo Chuckie!  Who is good and expendable on your team?  Certainly you guys need to better yourselves also.  You cant win the West with your current roster.  No way..  Parise is untouchable right?  So who else is there?

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1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

No.

 

Patrick stinks right now, but he's still a #2 overall pick and just 20 years old. 

 

Yes, it sucks that others in his draft year and adjacent to it are leaps ahead of him, but it's far too early to give up on him. 

 

The smarter move is to reduce his role to something more appropriate for where he is right now - like 3C.

 

I think the same is true of Provorov et al, btw. A true veteran top pairing defenseman would do wonders for our young corps. It will cost us, but I think it's worth it in the long run.

 

 

 

 

Are you sure? We could trade him for a slow, stupid overpaid defenseman. We'll get him back and pay through the nose for it in 8-10 years. 

 

Nah, never happen. Too crazy. 

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    • 7
      Post
      You're right...Edmonton is trading McDavid.    The point is if you don't just throw draft picks in on trades all the time, some of them can turn into very good players.     Homer threw aways 1sts, 2nds 3rds, whatever, he didn't care. When Hextall made trades, the throw ins were coming back to us. That's part of the reason we have a prospect pool now. Homer left us with a pool alright...of vomit.    Neither GM won us a cup...but Hextall didn't win one in half the time...and left the team sitting in a lot better shape than Homer did. Fletcher steps in with some good pieces, a deep cupboard of prospects at every single position and a ton of capspace. Homer just couldn't take that anymore. MUST WIN NOW!
    • 6
      Post
      A few things...and what I'm about to say might surprise you.     I don't hate Chuck Fletcher.  But here are a few things you should know and what should concern you.     Obviously the decision from Flyers' higher ups to cut loose Ron Hextall was the thought his ideas were not enough about winning now.  Chuck Fletcher was given the same 'win now' mantra too; especially after we signed Ryan Suter and Zach Parise to their big, super long term contracts which are looking more and more like an albatross by the game.  But I won't blame Fletcher too much on that one, as that mandate to bring those two in came from the owner hoping to net the Winter Classic...instead we got a Stadium Series game.  But I digress..   Fletcher sold off picks and prospects looking for players that would help push the Wild from playoff contender to Stanley Cup contender.  Ultimately we never reached that true Stanley Cup contender status because this team was too old by the time he started making such moves.  Also, the big salaries diminished what was left in cap space and even though we spent to the roof the younger promising core didn't quite all turn out as awesome as some in our management expected them to.     So, one big advantage for your Flyers have, for the moment is that Chuck Fletcher did not draft these crop of prospects you have in your system and in development.  That is a good thing.  However, the bad thing is...don't get too attached because they might be shipped for 2nd tier players in the quest to add depth to your club.  See Martin Hanzal, see Matt Moulson, see Jason Pominville for how that all turned out.    He also might ship a star player with the hope of getting a slightly cheaper almost good guy like he did with the Brent Burns trade here.  We got Devin Setoguchi, prospect Charlie Coyle (who we're still waiting to see realize his potential) and a 1st round pick that was a total bust.  Not that great of a return for trading away a Norris trophy defenseman.  Fletcher also dealt Nick Leddy and at the time our best veteran defenseman (former Flyer Kim Johnsson) to Chicago for Cam Barker.  But he had some fairly good moves too; the trade of Cal Clutterbuck for Nino Niederreiter was pretty good from a points perspective.  Dealing a 4th round pick for Devan Dubnyk also seems like a pretty nice steal.   Signing Eric Staal for a 3-year deal at $3.5 million has certainly been a savvy move.     Yet, on the positive.  Chuck Fletcher wasn't afraid to pull the trigger.  He wasn't afraid to try to swing a deal, and his moves were far more bold and risky than the moves of his predecessor Doug Risebrough.  Risebrough's favorite move was the waiver wire.  While we drafted some tougher character guys at times in Fletcher's tenure, many of them failed to be an impact.   Fletcher may swing and miss, but rarely is he going to stand by and watch the pitch.    One other thing I'd point out is, get used to rushing young players.  Especially if its win-now.  The Wild burned a year of Dumba's entry level deal, giving him too many games before sending him back to junior anyway.  Prospects seasoning in the minors will get called up instead of letting them develop at their own, natural pace.  I think this is another area the Flyers would be wise to be wary of Fletcher's record because while it may seem to help fill holes in the short term in more or less guts your farm team.  Since the Wild moved their AHL affiliate to Iowa, they've never been in the playoffs.  Fletcher gets canned...prospects stay put and suddenly they're a winner and that means your prospects get meaningful time to develop in the AHL playoffs.  The AHL playoffs is a great place to let the prospects get tons of meaningful ice time, in high pressure situations.  Fletcher didn't seem to care as much about that and felt that a youngster could just get better through osmosis even if he was a regular healthy scratch with the big club.  IMO, that's not a good plan.     The Wild tried to win now, and ultimately it was probably 2-3 years too old to make it happen.   But how much pain will the Wild be in...saddled by those big contracts.  Fletcher's decision to grant them No Movement Clauses which further ties up your flexibility under the cap.  I know the agents wanted those, but they didn't have to give those out.  Great and painful example.  We extended then 35-year old center Mikko Koivu (a player who has never had 22 goals in an NHL season even though he's been our #1 center most of the time) to two more years AND gave him a no movement clause.  Sorry...but that's just awful.     And now Fletcher's yours...good luck!  
    • 6
      Post
      They fired Hextall because they found out he has Fios.
    • 4
      Post
      This is where I am.  I hope Fletcher - and Holmgren - have learned from past mistakes and put those lessons to good use.  However, I'm not feeling all that great about it.
    • 4
      Post
      With all the "Chuck Fletcher Negativity" going on around here, I think it's time I said a little something FOR the man.
      I did have something to say about him when his name was still a rumor, as seen here... Post #4...and I stand by all of that.
          I will say, I DO get Flyers fans frustrations here.
      Honestly, not many choices on the spot to replace Ron Hextall with so much of the season still to go.
      But, if I am a Flyer fan, I am more angry about the Hextall FIRING than the Fletcher hire...

      The fact that Philly even needed to go searching for a GM when the one they had was doing quite a nice job already and just needed more time to complete his work, was IMO extremely short sided.
      Ya'll can thank Holmgren for that.  But you guys know that already, dontcha?

      I think Fletcher is experienced enough to know what he is stepping into. If HIS boss is the one calling the shots on drafting and personnel, then Fletcher should fully expect to take ALL the backlash (even if all of it isn't his fault) due to the position he is in now. GM and VP....who knows...maybe with both titles, he will have more control over what goes on and Holmgren can fade further into the background...though ideally, "Homer" should be elsewhere doing something else NOT related to Flyers hockey...again, telling you guys something you already know.

      But back to Fletcher...
      Even though this is frustrating for Flyers fans and it seems some people want to focus on his errors during his Minnesota tenure, let's not lose sight of the fact that he DID take a boring, almost NO high end talent team that played trap and in three short seasons turned them into a playoff contender every year.

      I know the goal is to win a Cup, and I won't dispute that, but from where the Flyers are now (always on the edge of a competitive cliff), I would think turning the team into a perennial playoff team would be a very big step in the right direction. 
      What happens after that, Flyers fans can worry about then.....but first things first.

      Moving into the role as Philly GM, IMO, Fletcher has MUCH more to work with than when he took the reigns as Minnesota GM. The Flyers have some nice forwards, some dynamic, if still green defensive core pieces on the team already, and some down in the minors who may be ready within the next season or two.
      A big, big, difference from all the plugs and grinders he had to start with in St. Paul.

      His drafting strategy, while it COULD have been a bit more charged, was at least competent, and he DID come away with some nice players that formed the core that made Minny a playoff team just about every year.
      Granlund, Zucker, Dumba just off the top of my head were guys that were drafted under his tenure.

      He also is credited with getting guys nobody wanted and gave them a chance to be key pieces on the team as well.... Dubnyk is the obvious one, but also Eric Staal and even Jared Spurgeon, whom NOBODY gave a damned about till Fletcher picked him off some scrap heap and said, "Hey, you are gonna be a part of this team"

      The Flyers are already ahead of what the Wild were (minus the goaltending of course....Yes, I realize Philly has a big problem there....more than the Wild had), so I think, if you give the guy a chance, I think he could do well for the organization in the short term for sure.
      Long term will remain to be seen, but again, baby steps....and having a guy who knows how to turn things around from the GM's chair is a good place to start.

      So basically, what I am saying is, while Fletcher certainly has stepped on his own ^%$# a few times while Minnesota GM, I think it would be fair to try and give the guy a chance and see what he can do over the course of this season and next.

      I still feel Ron Hextall should have been left in his seat as GM, but given that is now in the rear view, fans can only focus on what is to come.
      Nothing is guaranteed, but if Fletcher really is the smart guy he likely is, then not only will he be good for the organization given the current circumstances, BUT, even better, he SHOULD learn from past mistakes...especially when he has lots of talent, both vets and young players, to work with, lots of cap room, and with some albatross contracts soon to come off the books in Philadelphia.

      And things could go even BETTER if Paul Holmgren keeps his nose out of the GM's and VP's business....  
    • 4
      Post
      Did we trade all the young good players for all the old veterans yet?  

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