pilldoc Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, ruxpin said: I majored in it. Which is why my job has nothing whatsoever to do with it. I have a Minor in it... European History to be exact..... and yes I agree... it has nothing to do with my job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, pilldoc said: I have a Minor in it... European History to be exact..... and yes I agree... it has nothing to do with my job! I preferred European. Longue Duree (don't know how to do accent marks on my phone). But also really got into "anatomy of revolution" type stuff. Bolshevik, Mexican, French revolutions, etc. My daughter is a history major, but she's smart enough to also do secondary education. She's like me and is annoyed with civil war fascination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 20 minutes ago, pilldoc said: I have a Minor in it... European History to be exact..... and yes I agree... it has nothing to do with my job! So you mean, you don't actually recite the history of the medicine you are about to administer to the patient as they cough up blood? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 14 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Damn as long as you don't have HIGH expectations for one year... @murraycraven ...was right............welcome to Philly Chuck!!! @pilldoc Wow.... that is an incredibly generous timeline!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ0226 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 23 hours ago, radoran said: Well, exactly. I might be happier with someone who's goal is to win the Stanley Cup. Making the playoffs is obviously step one of that process. But you have teams like St. Louis that "made the playoffs" every year from 1979 through 2004 and got to the Conference Finals twice over that span, never making the Final, nor winning the Cup. And, yes, there's a bit of pedantry there - Fletcher here is likely talking about his immediate goals and I get that. I am just leery of the old "make the playoffs and anything can happen" Phillyosophy coming back into play. Where they "get to the playoffs" and then lose in the first round to a Cup Finalist and then it's "but we lost to a Finalist!" (Ahem, 2014). You know, this: What's the last "surprise" team that came away with the Cup? Sure, the Knights made the Final last year. But they lost. There are "surprise" Finalists (2010 comes to mind) but there aren't a lot of "surprise" winners. Certainly not in the Cap Era. Teams are built these days, not assembled on the fly. Every single Cup winner in the Cap Era has a solid home grown core that they added pieces to when the time was right. Hextall had "philosophical differences" with Homer - and, to me, that was a good thing. Homer's "philosophy" was the embodiment of "close but no guitar." And now we have a guy who apparently Homer agrees with the "way he likes to operate" and is "a fit" with the philosophy. By all accounts, we're approaching an offseason where there are significant opportunities with cap space and assets. I'm waiting and seeing, but more in a Reaganesque "trust, but verify" manner. I wasn't talking about a surprise story. I mean Fletcher made the Wild a consistent playoff team so we never got good draft picks but the team was no where good enough to make a serious run much less get out of the 1st round. Chuck had the Wild have 2 series wins in 6 playoff appearances. The last 3 playoffs the Wild got enough wins combined to win a series. Fletcher relies on over the hill vets that are a shell of their selves to run the team. What's worst is he gives them big contracts with NMC/NTC. Fletcher drafting history is terrible too. With him and his staffing he struggled to develop any talent from the draft picks. He has no problem throwing away draft picks for rentals that literally disappear out of the NHL as soon as their contract is up with the Wild. The Suter/Parise contracts don't end until the end of the 24-25 season and might go down as one of the worst contracts of all time. Suter can be argued he was in the top 5 for defensemen but Parise was never a top tier player. He hit top 20 2 or 3 times in his career but otherwise struggles to make even in the top 50. That money could have been spent elsewhere to make the Wild better. My point is that Fletcher was cheered when it was announced he was finally fired. He was a big improvement from Dumpster Doug before but that's like saying going from a skateboard to a bike is a big improvement well everybody else is driving a car. You are still behind. Fans got sick of his bad decisions and panic moves. He literally made the franchise stuck. Not good enough to make a playoff push beyond the 2nd round but not bad enough to draft a possible franchise changer either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, EJ0226 said: I wasn't talking about a surprise story. I mean Fletcher made the Wild a consistent playoff team so we never got good draft picks but the team was no where good enough to make a serious run much less get out of the 1st round. Chuck had the Wild have 2 series wins in 6 playoff appearances. The last 3 playoffs the Wild got enough wins combined to win a series. Fletcher relies on over the hill vets that are a shell of their selves to run the team. What's worst is he gives them big contracts with NMC/NTC. Fletcher drafting history is terrible too. With him and his staffing he struggled to develop any talent from the draft picks. He has no problem throwing away draft picks for rentals that literally disappear out of the NHL as soon as their contract is up with the Wild. The Suter/Parise contracts don't end until the end of the 24-25 season and might go down as one of the worst contracts of all time. Suter can be argued he was in the top 5 for defensemen but Parise was never a top tier player. He hit top 20 2 or 3 times in his career but otherwise struggles to make even in the top 50. That money could have been spent elsewhere to make the Wild better. My point is that Fletcher was cheered when it was announced he was finally fired. He was a big improvement from Dumpster Doug before but that's like saying going from a skateboard to a bike is a big improvement well everybody else is driving a car. You are still behind. Fans got sick of his bad decisions and panic moves. He literally made the franchise stuck. Not good enough to make a playoff push beyond the 2nd round but not bad enough to draft a possible franchise changer either. I was using your quote to illustrate the general feelings of Wild fans about Fletcher's tenure and also to point out that the many and varied flaws you bring up sound eerily reminiscent of the many and varied flaws we saw with Holmgren during his tenure as GM (which, fair enough, started out pretty good). Over the hill vets with long contracts and NMCs? See: Lecavalier, Vincent (5Y, $4.5M per, NMC). Rental vets for draft picks? See: Prospal, Vaclav (obtained for Alexandre Picard and a 2nd in Feb, 2008 - traded away in June, 2008 for a 7th and a conditional) Rental vets for draft picks that disappear from the NHL? See: Kubina, Pavel (obtained Feb 2011 for a player, 2nd, and 4th - never played in NHL again after the season) Essentially, I can see where Fletcher doesn't have "philosophical differences" with Holmgren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 20 minutes ago, radoran said: I can see where Fletcher doesn't have "philosophical differences" with Holmgren. Once again, perfectly put. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 15 hours ago, radoran said: Somebody effed with the Steadman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 2 hours ago, murraycraven said: @pilldoc Wow.... that is an incredibly generous timeline!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyersfan35 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, EJ0226 said: I wasn't talking about a surprise story. I mean Fletcher made the Wild a consistent playoff team so we never got good draft picks but the team was no where good enough to make a serious run much less get out of the 1st round. Chuck had the Wild have 2 series wins in 6 playoff appearances. The last 3 playoffs the Wild got enough wins combined to win a series. Fletcher relies on over the hill vets that are a shell of their selves to run the team. What's worst is he gives them big contracts with NMC/NTC. Fletcher drafting history is terrible too. With him and his staffing he struggled to develop any talent from the draft picks. He has no problem throwing away draft picks for rentals that literally disappear out of the NHL as soon as their contract is up with the Wild. The Suter/Parise contracts don't end until the end of the 24-25 season and might go down as one of the worst contracts of all time. Suter can be argued he was in the top 5 for defensemen but Parise was never a top tier player. He hit top 20 2 or 3 times in his career but otherwise struggles to make even in the top 50. That money could have been spent elsewhere to make the Wild better. My point is that Fletcher was cheered when it was announced he was finally fired. He was a big improvement from Dumpster Doug before but that's like saying going from a skateboard to a bike is a big improvement well everybody else is driving a car. You are still behind. Fans got sick of his bad decisions and panic moves. He literally made the franchise stuck. Not good enough to make a playoff push beyond the 2nd round but not bad enough to draft a possible franchise changer either. i really think sometimes things really have to go your way in terms of matchups, you didnt matchup well against the blackhawks, i dont think it's about how you draft, what you trade for, if you dont get your matchups, you are just not going to win. the caps last year, no one else expected the caps to win the cup and it took them a long time to get to the finals and win it all. they never blew it up and they just kept trying and eventually they got their way and won it all. the caps players even said it themselves, they didnt even know why or how they got there, they couldnt explain it. things just go your way. that's just how it is sometimes. you can build a team of stars like the lightning and still lose, with less talented team like vegas to go in the finals. i guess teams just get hot in the playoffs and it works out. im guessing that it's the team that has the most playoff experienced players. Edited December 5, 2018 by flyersfan35 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 19 hours ago, radoran said: Is there more of a "his guy" out there than the guy who comes out of retirement to take the job because of his longstanding working relationship with "the guy"? I know this goes against your general "Fletch's spy" theme here, but Hak had reached out to Rick Wilson BEFORE Fletcher was even hired this was COMING from a suggestion from Hak as HIS choice for HIS assistant, being a former North Dakota alum and all just to set the record straight. Hakstol wanted this guy Fletcher persuaded him to come on board. So we can squash that right. I know it's hard but let's hope it helps. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 “I’ve known Rick for a long time, both professionally and personally,” Hakstol said. “The game runs in his veins,” Hakstol said. So i know there is a chance this could benefit the team....i know i will leave with my positive comments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 21 hours ago, radoran said: I bet if he was - as you note - winning, he'd still be here. Despite the "toxic" atmosphere, the "spies" in the locker room and the caterers being upset that they have to have menus approved. For sure. Tolerance of that behavior rises and falls in accordance with success (or lack of). 21 hours ago, radoran said: The "toxic" part is back fill to justify the firing from where I sit. YMMV, which is fine (I don't think it does). I certainly think the "toxic" part made it easier for them to part ways. I initially questioned how much of that kind of talk was just spin, but it certainly seems like there is some fire to that smoke. 21 hours ago, radoran said: I, for one, am looking forward to seeing Dave Hakstol freed from the overbearing influence of a GM that picked his assistant coaches for him. Maybe it starts with Chuck Fletcher picking Rick Wilson? Lol, I hear you. Thought I read somewhere that Hakstol was at least consulted about the hiring. I do hope we are going to see some different things on the ice, specifically more aggression. Maybe they will even practice a little harder. Point is, I wonder if Hextall wanted them to play a safer game and Hakstol will now have the chance to coach the way he wants. After all, Hakstol was touted as always having aggressive, hard-working teams. No one would describe this team that way. The fact that Clarke (or whoever) talked with Hakstol before Hextall was fired and the fact that Hakstol had a hand in firing Murphy leads me to believe that the org sees Hakstol as a victim of Hextall's reign and not as an accomplice. If Homer & Crew thought Hakstol was an issue, he would have been fired along with Hextall. That's not to say that Fletcher won't decide to can him anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 39 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: i know i will leave with my positive comments. there is no room for positive around comments around here: Fletch will trade ALL THE GOOD YOUNG TALENT for old veterans, he is also Homer's stepford child and can never win a playoff round.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, murraycraven said: Fletch will trade ALL THE GOOD YOUNG TALENT for old veterans Yes i agree he has done it before...ya know history as stuff and repeating and all that jazz thingy... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, murraycraven said: Fletch 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, Podein25 said: "Moon River...." Classic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 21 minutes ago, murraycraven said: there is no room for positive around comments around here: Fletch will trade ALL THE GOOD YOUNG TALENT for old veterans, he is also Homer's stepford child and can never win a playoff round.... How come it's okay when YOU say it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, ruxpin said: How come it's okay when YOU say it? I say it in jest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 hour ago, flyersfan35 said: i really think sometimes things really have to go your way in terms of matchups, you didnt matchup well against the blackhawks, i dont think it's about how you draft, what you trade for, if you dont get your matchups, you are just not going to win. the caps last year, no one else expected the caps to win the cup and it took them a long time to get to the finals and win it all. they never blew it up and they just kept trying and eventually they got their way and won it all. the caps players even said it themselves, they didnt even know why or how they got there, they couldnt explain it. things just go your way. that's just how it is sometimes. you can build a team of stars like the lightning and still lose, with less talented team like vegas to go in the finals. i guess teams just get hot in the playoffs and it works out. im guessing that it's the team that has the most playoff experienced players. I think this is a big part of it. I said in a post recently that winning the Stanley Cup is the best case scenario, when everything goes 'right' (not everything is perfect, but that the team overcomes even the 'downs' like injuries, officiating, bad puck luck, etc). A GM does what he can to assemble the best crew and put them in the best position to eliminate as many 'variables' as possible. I mean, McPhee (I think it was him) traded Filip Forsberg for like 19 games of Martin Erat for god's sake. All GMs make mistakes. The Caps didn't blow it up, and it worked out for them. All that to say that there is not a single person in the world that can come here and guarantee a Cup. And there is no 'right' way to do it. So, given that, and given that the Flyers certainly are unwilling to go the Chicago, Pittsburgh, and LA route (which was organic terribleness) or the Leafs route (which was deliberate tanking), I can only hope that Fletcher does the best job he can at making this team competitive, and ultimately, that *team* (not Fletcher) will bring home a Cup. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 Somewhat of a non-sequitur, but I just read that Rick Wilson played college hockey and later coached at North Dakota (albeit at different times than when Hakstol was there). Another "good ol' boys network" hiring, I tell ya!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, vis said: Another "good ol' boys network" hiring, I tell ya!! How many people hire guys who they are not familiar with and think they can come in and help??? So it only work if he has no clue who the guys is and never heard of him...i'm just not following it...i could see if he was an X Flyer but Hak job hangs in the balance with this coaching call...hell i know if it was me in the trench with a guy i would want it to be someone i like and trust can help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 45 minutes ago, ruxpin said: How come it's okay when YOU say it? btw.... I love the new avatar! LOL... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: I know this goes against your general "Fletch's spy" theme here, but Hak had reached out to Rick Wilson BEFORE Fletcher was even hired this was COMING from a suggestion from Hak as HIS choice for HIS assistant, being a former North Dakota alum and all just to set the record straight. Hakstol wanted this guy Fletcher persuaded him to come on board. So we can squash that right. I know it's hard but let's hope it helps. Those things are in no way mutually exclusive. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, radoran said: Those things are in no way mutually exclusive. Hope that helps. Hakstol said he reached out to him. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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