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rottenrefs

Goalies... Dubnyk & Stalock

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Are the Wild rotating them enough? Better than last year?

 

Currently Dubnyk has started 25 games to Stalock's 7 games. Dubnyk has been relieved a couple times... Not bad?

 

Last year Dubnyk saw about 72% of their games and this year he's seen about 78%. Too steep of a load or just right?

 

What do you think?

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No, they're not.  I think Dubnyk makes that decision at least 80% of the time.  Stalock should've played in at least one of those games last week.  

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I think it is a bit steep....but that is nothing new.

For all the Wild coaching staff want to say about how "Stalock does a good job for us", they still run Dubnyk to the ground.
In truth, though I think Stalock is a decent backup, he CAN let in some maddening goals and oftentimes leaves me thinking that THAT is why Dubnyk is always run out there.

Duby can let in some softies too, but given his workload, he can sorta make up for it....with as little time as Stalock gets, he simply can't afford to give up those backbreakers.

 

Minnesota has needed a quality back up (or at least one they actually have true faith in) for quite some time now.
How nice would it be, if Dubnyk and his backup maybe did a 60-40 workload, and have Duby nice n fresh for the postseason!

Won't be happening with Stalock, just like it didn't happen with Keumper, but I am not sure what options Minnesota would have looking into next season (other than bringing up the Hamburglar...yikes!), as Stalock will be an UFA

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I would think a 1 out 3 ratio for staylok would be about right.

That's pretty close to what they're doing.

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4 hours ago, Tomdog said:

I would think a 1 out 3 ratio for staylok would be about right.

That's pretty close to what they're doing.

I suppose if you count his relief appearances.

I've always wanted to see more of a consistent rotation Like Tomdog said. 

2 of 3 for Dubnyk and if Stalock has a good game, Let him have the next then go back to the 2 of 3 pattern.

Of course schedule and who has a history of doing well against certain teams will factor in, But even those seem to even out.

Except for luongo starting at the X :P 

 

We know Dubnyk's game, Best and worst. Yet I'm not sure if Stalock has another level given the amount we get to see him.

He did have a chance last season with the 5-6 straight where he went .500. Maybe that's all he has and is what we see now.

 

I kind of doubt we'll ever see a tandem like the Fern/Roli days. Possibly might of had a Backy/Hards until his illness.

Then we were almost left with a Back n' Hack attack.

Edited by ClusterChuck
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Relief appearances should not count and I would schedule staylock in regardless of how well dubs is playing. 

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6 hours ago, ClusterChuck said:

I suppose if you count his relief appearances.

I've always wanted to see more of a consistent rotation Like Tomdog said. 

2 of 3 for Dubnyk and if Stalock has a good game, Let him have the next then go back to the 2 of 3 pattern.

Of course schedule and who has a history of doing well against certain teams will factor in, But even those seem to even out.

Except for luongo starting at the X :P 

 

We know Dubnyk's game, Best and worst. Yet I'm not sure if Stalock has another level given the amount we get to see him.

He did have a chance last season with the 5-6 straight where he went .500. Maybe that's all he has and is what we see now.

 

I kind of doubt we'll ever see a tandem like the Fern/Roli days. Possibly might of had a Backy/Hards until his illness.

Then we were almost left with a Back n' Hack attack.

At age 31, I think we've probably seen all Stalok has to offer. A decent backup. I still would like to see him play a few more games, though. He doesn't really hurt the Wild when he plays--he's a couple of games over .500. Seems to me if there is any benefit to be gained by Dubnyk it's worth it.

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21 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

I think it is a bit steep....but that is nothing new.

For all the Wild coaching staff want to say about how "Stalock does a good job for us", they still run Dubnyk to the ground.
In truth, though I think Stalock is a decent backup, he CAN let in some maddening goals and oftentimes leaves me thinking that THAT is why Dubnyk is always run out there.

Duby can let in some softies too, but given his workload, he can sorta make up for it....with as little time as Stalock gets, he simply can't afford to give up those backbreakers.

 

Minnesota has needed a quality back up (or at least one they actually have true faith in) for quite some time now.
How nice would it be, if Dubnyk and his backup maybe did a 60-40 workload, and have Duby nice n fresh for the postseason!

Won't be happening with Stalock, just like it didn't happen with Keumper, but I am not sure what options Minnesota would have looking into next season (other than bringing up the Hamburglar...yikes!), as Stalock will be an UFA

I still like Stalock as our solid backup goaltender now, and even much better than Kuemper and everyone else we had during the last decade. In my opinion ,he is still our good option to use it for the next season and even more before our young promising goalies Kahkonen and Motte will be able to develop in Iowa. Both Dubnyk and Stalock need a team's support (like I said the same for the our goalies in Iowa). Very similar situation for our both teams at this moment. Minimal or even zero production from some team's players, +/- -4; -5 stats for some of them during the game makes our current position in a Division and a Conference. Still I am not sure that we will make playoffs this season. Good team but not a consistent in their results and a confidence. Any way, I liked a lot last game against Flames. We need sometimes some sparks of madness, to stand for each other, especially in a playoffs time, which we are missing most of the time as a real competitive team.

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With their Goals Against Average nearly the same, and their wins / loses not all that great for either of them, one might think regardless of playing Stalock more and Dubnyk less... That Dubnyk could be a bit sharper if he saw less of a workload. ??

 

Dubnyk 12 wins, 10 losses, (2 OT losses), 2.63 GAA, .913 Save %

Stalock 5 wins, 3 losses, 2.65 GAA, .904 Save %

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Want a killer stat about Dubnyk?  Killer as in bad, Dubnyk is 44th out of 48 NHL goaltenders in 3rd period save percentage..sub .900%.  He needs to sit more...

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2 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

Want a killer stat about Dubnyk?  Killer as in bad, Dubnyk is 44th out of 48 NHL goaltenders in 3rd period save percentage..sub .900%.  He needs to sit more...

Wow, that's terrible!

 

The way I see it is neither of them are standing out as being much better than the other and relieving the guy who's supposed to be your main man come playoff time... Well, he's certainly not a standout. Playing him too much isn't going to make the team better.

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14 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

Want a killer stat about Dubnyk?  Killer as in bad, Dubnyk is 44th out of 48 NHL goaltenders in 3rd period save percentage..sub .900%.  He needs to sit more...

I think everyone here agrees Dubnyk is overplayed. That stat is interesting but don't you think it's also reflects how we have not played a full 60 minute often times. Out of gas or Foot off gas.

 

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On 12/17/2018 at 5:36 AM, Tomdog said:

I would think a 1 out 3 ratio for staylok would be about right.

That's pretty close to what they're doing.

Agree too. Good ratio, hope they will follow it proportionally well. Stalock should play every 3rd game or about 27-30 games per season. That is pretty close to what they are doing, but they are not distributing that ratio persistently well. At this moment they do that chaotically when one is overload and the other one is in a rusted condition. 

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2 hours ago, ClusterChuck said:

I think everyone here agrees Dubnyk is overplayed. That stat is interesting but don't you think it's also reflects how we have not played a full 60 minute often times. Out of gas or Foot off gas.

 

Yes, that reflects our results even more. Out of gas, or foot off gas, or less luck, or less talent to put more pucks into the net and protect more our own net, or even older age , and even other some secondary factors play the role in our current standings.

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This is probably a bit long for this format, but...

 

Team Frist Name Last Name Total Games Games Started Win Loss OTL % of Total Games Started
VGK Marc-Andre Fleury 35 31 19 10 2 89%
OTT Craig Anderson 34 28 13 12 3 82%
TOR Frederik Andersen 33 27 17 9 1 82%
ANA John Gibson 34 27 14 9 4 79%
MIN Devan Dubnyk 32 25 12 10 2 78%
NYR Henrik Lundqvist 32 25 10 9 5 78%
NJD Keith Kinkaid 31 24 11 8 6 77%
STL Jake Allen 31 24 10 9 4 77%
MTL Carey Price 33 25 13 8 4 76%
WPG Connor Hellebuyck 33 25 15 8 1 76%
SJS Martin Jones 34 24 13 7 3 71%
VAN Jacob Markstrom 36 25 13 9 3 69%
CBJ Sergei Bobrovsky 32 22 12 10 1 69%
WAS Braden Holtby 32 22 13 7 2 69%
CHI Corey Crawford 35 23 6 14 2 66%
BUF Carter Hutton 34 22 13 8 2 65%
DET Jimmy Howard 34 22 10 7 4 65%
NAS Pekka Rinne 33 21 14 5 1 64%
COL Semyon Varlamov 35 22 11 7 3 63%
NYI Thomas Greiss 31 18 11 6 1 58%
DAL Ben Bishop 33 19 10 8 1 58%
PIT Casey DeSmith 32 18 10 5 4 56%
CAL Mike Smith 34 19 11 7 1 56%
EDM Cam Talbot 34 18 7 9 2 53%
TBL Louis Domingue 34 18 14 4 0 53%
BOS Jaroslav Halak 33 17 9 5 2 52%
BOS Tuukka Rask 33 16 8 7 2 48%
EDM Mikko Koskinen 34 16 11 4 1 47%
FLA Roberto Luongo 31 14 6 5 1 45%
FLA James Reimer 31 14 5 7 3 45%
CAL David Rittich 34 15 11 3 1 44%
TBL Andrei Vasilevskiy 34 15 10 3 2 44%
DAL Anton Khudobin 33 14 6 6 2 42%
NYI Robin Lehner 31 13 4 6 3 42%
ARI Darcy Kuemper 32 13 4 7 2 41%
CAR Peter Mrazek 32 13 5 6 2 41%
ARI Antii Raanta 32 12 5 6 0 38%
PIT Matt Murray 32 12 5 5 1 38%
NAS Juuse Saros 33 12 8 5 0 36%
BUF Linus Ullmark 34 12 7 1 3 35%
DET Jonathan Bernier 34 12 4 8 1 35%
LAK Jack Campbell 34 12 5 7 0 35%
LAK Jonathan Quick 34 12 2 8 2 35%
CAR Curtis McElhinney 32 11 7 3 1 34%
WAS Phoenix Copely 32 11 7 2 1 34%
CHI Cam Ward 35 12 4 5 4 34%
STL Chad Johnson 31 10 7 2 6 32%
COL Phillip Grubauer 35 11 7 2 3 31%
CBJ Joonas Korpisalo 32 10 5 2 2 31%
SJS Aaron Dell 34 10 5 4 2 29%
VAN Anders Nilsson 36 10 3 6 1 28%
LAK Calvin Petersen 34 9 4 4 1 26%
MTL Antti Niemi 33 8 4 3 1 24%
WPG Laurent Broissot 33 8 7 1 1 24%
NJD Corey Schneider 31 7 0 5 1 23%
ARI Adin Hill 32 7 5 3 0 22%
MIN Alex Stalock 32 7 5 3 0 22%
NYR Alexandar Georgiev 32 7 4 4 0 22%
ANA Ryan Miller 34 7 4 2 1 21%
TOR Garrett Sparks 33 6 4 1 1 18%
OTT Mike McKenna 34 4 1 2 1 12%
VGK Malcom Subban 35 4 0 4 0 11%
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Thanks for posting those stats IllaZilla. Very nice info to study. Interesting would be to compare it with a data by the end of the regular season. Of course, it depends of the successful performance for both goalies and their health. Personally, I like the ratio for Washington Capitals team – 69% for Holtby and 34% for Copley. The other successful  teams Tampa and  Calgary having so  far pretty similar ratio  on using both goaltenders   53% -56% for a goalie#1 to 44% for a goalie#2, which is practically almost equalizing their workload. So far we have 78% involvement time for Dubnyk and 22% for Stalock.

Edited by Alexandron

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1 hour ago, Alexandron said:

The other successful  teams Tampa and  Calgary having so  far pretty similar ratio  on using both goaltenders   53% -56% for a goalie#1 to 44% for a goalie#2, which is practically almost equalizing their workload. So far we have 78% involvement time for Dubnyk and 22% for Stalock.

 

Yes, but don't forget that both Vasilievsky and Smith were injured. We therefore should see those numbers along with the goalie who was set as the back-up.

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I know many Wild fans like Stalock (and I DON'T think he is terrible...just not a huge fan), but looking over at potential UFA's for next season, I'd like to see the Wild possibly make a run at plucking Casey DeSmith from the Penguins. 

A UFA, making about the same that Stalock is making now (both sub 700K), 4 years younger than our current backup, he nonetheless, has put up better numbers and that is working behind a Pittsburgh defense that has lots of holes in it.

If he can be convinced to come over, maybe give the 27 yr old double his current salary (something in the 3yr, 1.5-1.7M per range) to be Dubnyk's backup, I think Duby's workload can be reduced enough to keep him fresh, while still playing the lion's share of games, but I rather like DeSmith to not only not miss a beat having Dubnyk sit, but even push Duby for the starter job.

Good healthy goalie competition for ice time isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't think Stalock can push Dubnyk the way a guy like DeSmith possibly can.

 

Here is a quick comparison of Stalock and DeSmith this season (I even threw in Devan Dubnyk for further comparison)

1600814425_GOALIECOMPARE.thumb.jpg.904d9d55ef9c986d159ca0cd908c47d8.jpg



Yea, yea, I know...DeSmith has more games played than Stalock, but he still is firmly BEHIND Matt Murray over there and played while Murray dealt with health issues...still though, the Penguins are not a solid defensive team, yet DeSmith put up damned good numbers.

 

Of PARTICULAR note, look at the save % in the higher danger areas (shots from 1-15 feet, and from 15-30 feet... DeSmith beats both Stalock AND Duby on those), while the Minnesota netminders have a slight edge on the long range shots (the much easier ones)....albeit DeSmith's .955 is nothing to sneeze at.

 

Just sayin, I would feel better with DeSmith backing up Dubnyk for the next 2 or 3 seasons or so more than Stalock….. and after that period ends (Duby's contract will come due), then the Wild can evaluate and see where they are...maybe even have a more viable option ready from the minors.

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On 12/17/2018 at 3:23 AM, rottenrefs said:

Are the Wild rotating them enough? Better than last year?

 

Currently Dubnyk has started 25 games to Stalock's 7 games. Dubnyk has been relieved a couple times... Not bad?

 

Last year Dubnyk saw about 72% of their games and this year he's seen about 78%. Too steep of a load or just right?

 

What do you think?

Not rotating enough. Not better than last year, status quo. I don't think the coaching staff sees what we are seeing nor did they last year.

 

Dubnyk's ceiling is 50 games a season.

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18 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

 

Just sayin, I would feel better with DeSmith backing up Dubnyk for the next 2 or 3 seasons or so more than Stalock….. and after that period ends (Duby's contract will come due), then the Wild can evaluate and see where they are...maybe even have a more viable option ready from the minors.

Who knows what Fenton is thinking right now. He possibly could move Stalock in a package with somebody else soon for a needed player which would open this possibility or just bring up Kakkonen to replace him.

I just don't see Stalock being here as a tandem for much longer.

 

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On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 6:13 PM, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

I know many Wild fans like Stalock (and I DON'T think he is terrible...just not a huge fan), but looking over at potential UFA's for next season, I'd like to see the Wild possibly make a run at plucking Casey DeSmith from the Penguins. 

A UFA, making about the same that Stalock is making now (both sub 700K), 4 years younger than our current backup, he nonetheless, has put up better numbers and that is working behind a Pittsburgh defense that has lots of holes in it.

If he can be convinced to come over, maybe give the 27 yr old double his current salary (something in the 3yr, 1.5-1.7M per range) to be Dubnyk's backup, I think Duby's workload can be reduced enough to keep him fresh, while still playing the lion's share of games, but I rather like DeSmith to not only not miss a beat having Dubnyk sit, but even push Duby for the starter job.

Good healthy goalie competition for ice time isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't think Stalock can push Dubnyk the way a guy like DeSmith possibly can.

 

Here is a quick comparison of Stalock and DeSmith this season (I even threw in Devan Dubnyk for further comparison)

1600814425_GOALIECOMPARE.thumb.jpg.904d9d55ef9c986d159ca0cd908c47d8.jpg



Yea, yea, I know...DeSmith has more games played than Stalock, but he still is firmly BEHIND Matt Murray over there and played while Murray dealt with health issues...still though, the Penguins are not a solid defensive team, yet DeSmith put up damned good numbers.

 

Of PARTICULAR note, look at the save % in the higher danger areas (shots from 1-15 feet, and from 15-30 feet... DeSmith beats both Stalock AND Duby on those), while the Minnesota netminders have a slight edge on the long range shots (the much easier ones)....albeit DeSmith's .955 is nothing to sneeze at.

 

Just sayin, I would feel better with DeSmith backing up Dubnyk for the next 2 or 3 seasons or so more than Stalock….. and after that period ends (Duby's contract will come due), then the Wild can evaluate and see where they are...maybe even have a more viable option ready from the minors.

I'd be all in if they could get Desmith. I've actually seen him play some minutes--IMO he looks pretty good.

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12 minutes ago, sweetshot said:

I'd be all in if they could get Desmith. I've actually seen him play some minutes--IMO he looks pretty good.

 

Yea, he seems to be that "late bloomer" type.
If it weren't for Matt Murray (maybe MAF before him), he might have been the Pittsburgh regular starter.
Well, he also DID take the time to go to college (good move on his part), get his education and have an outstanding college career, so that probably played into him becoming recognized in the NHL only just now at age 27.

But yea, he is pretty good. The Penguins always seem to have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to goaltenders.

 

Minnesota could have other options in the off season too.... Maybe a Jimmy Howard on a short term deal or a Keith Kinkaid from New Jersey ( I know, I know....Kinkaid's numbers recently have been bad....but then, NJ is HORRIBLE), because Kinkaid actually did hold down the goalie position pretty well through most of Cory Schneider's meltdowns.

Still though, I like Casey DeSmith head n shoulders above either of those guys.
And if there were some way, ANY way, the Wild brass could convince him to come on over, I think they should.

 

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10 hours ago, Antti_Laxative said:

Manny/Rollie redux

Ah, the good ol’ days...entire threads that sounded like a Miller Lite commercial...”Manny!” “Rollie!” “Manny!” “Rollie!” 😂

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    • 4
      Post
      Not hate agenda for him but hate agenda for riding him into the ground so if they do make it to the playoffs he is exhausted and not going to look good. On top of it the back up just sits and rusts for a good 3 weeks if not longer. It does nobody any good and rust does happen from not playing any games. Take any player and have them sit for 2 to 3 weeks with only practice and you will see rust.   I also think it's foolish of BB if he does in fact just base his decision on if a guy will actually say he isn't ready. These guys are pro and very few if any will ever say they are not good to go. You got to rest them once and awhile and give the back up a few games every few weeks to keep your starter fresh. Look at those guys they started Dubs and within the first 10 minutes he is pulled cause he is playing so poorly. If it's true he asked Dubnyk if he was good to go then that is a huge error on a veteran coach.
    • 3
      Post
      Want a killer stat about Dubnyk?  Killer as in bad, Dubnyk is 44th out of 48 NHL goaltenders in 3rd period save percentage..sub .900%.  He needs to sit more...
    • 3
      Post
      I know many Wild fans like Stalock (and I DON'T think he is terrible...just not a huge fan), but looking over at potential UFA's for next season, I'd like to see the Wild possibly make a run at plucking Casey DeSmith from the Penguins. 

      A UFA, making about the same that Stalock is making now (both sub 700K), 4 years younger than our current backup, he nonetheless, has put up better numbers and that is working behind a Pittsburgh defense that has lots of holes in it.

      If he can be convinced to come over, maybe give the 27 yr old double his current salary (something in the 3yr, 1.5-1.7M per range) to be Dubnyk's backup, I think Duby's workload can be reduced enough to keep him fresh, while still playing the lion's share of games, but I rather like DeSmith to not only not miss a beat having Dubnyk sit, but even push Duby for the starter job.

      Good healthy goalie competition for ice time isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't think Stalock can push Dubnyk the way a guy like DeSmith possibly can.   Here is a quick comparison of Stalock and DeSmith this season (I even threw in Devan Dubnyk for further comparison)

      Yea, yea, I know...DeSmith has more games played than Stalock, but he still is firmly BEHIND Matt Murray over there and played while Murray dealt with health issues...still though, the Penguins are not a solid defensive team, yet DeSmith put up damned good numbers.   Of PARTICULAR note, look at the save % in the higher danger areas (shots from 1-15 feet, and from 15-30 feet... DeSmith beats both Stalock AND Duby on those), while the Minnesota netminders have a slight edge on the long range shots (the much easier ones)....albeit DeSmith's .955 is nothing to sneeze at.   Just sayin, I would feel better with DeSmith backing up Dubnyk for the next 2 or 3 seasons or so more than Stalock….. and after that period ends (Duby's contract will come due), then the Wild can evaluate and see where they are...maybe even have a more viable option ready from the minors.
    • 3
      Post
      Not rotating enough. Not better than last year, status quo. I don't think the coaching staff sees what we are seeing nor did they last year.   Dubnyk's ceiling is 50 games a season.
    • 3
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      I think most of us pretty agree that Stalock should play mores games. Not because Dubnyk sucks, but just to gave him some rest and eventually prevent him from injuries. Resting is a key factor and is often neglected. There is a large fraction of injuries that are caused, or at least aggravated by fatigue and/or a lack of resting.   Anyway, it's a hard problematic. So far, Dubnyk lead the Wild to get the 2 points in Ottawa and Montréal (probably also in Toronto, but I didn't watch the game), so we all look smarter after. Putting Dubnyk in front of the net in Boston would have made also sense because he has been solid in the past and is on a good streak. And then comes the All Star Game break (Yes, he's supposed to go there but for goalies it's mainly to make act of presence. Like for Price, I would have declined the invitation to focus on the Wild as we are right in the middle of the playoffs hunt).
    • 2
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      Last six starts for Dubnyk: 5-1 2.01 GAA .936 SV%

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