Goalies... Dubnyk & Stalock

[rottenrefs]

Are the Wild rotating them enough? Better than last year?

 

Currently Dubnyk has started 25 games to Stalock's 7 games. Dubnyk has been relieved a couple times... Not bad?

 

Last year Dubnyk saw about 72% of their games and this year he's seen about 78%. Too steep of a load or just right?

 

What do you think?

[CreaseAndAssist]

No, they're not.  I think Dubnyk makes that decision at least 80% of the time.  Stalock should've played in at least one of those games last week.  

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

I think it is a bit steep....but that is nothing new.

For all the Wild coaching staff want to say about how "Stalock does a good job for us", they still run Dubnyk to the ground.
In truth, though I think Stalock is a decent backup, he CAN let in some maddening goals and oftentimes leaves me thinking that THAT is why Dubnyk is always run out there.

Duby can let in some softies too, but given his workload, he can sorta make up for it....with as little time as Stalock gets, he simply can't afford to give up those backbreakers.

 

Minnesota has needed a quality back up (or at least one they actually have true faith in) for quite some time now.
How nice would it be, if Dubnyk and his backup maybe did a 60-40 workload, and have Duby nice n fresh for the postseason!

Won't be happening with Stalock, just like it didn't happen with Keumper, but I am not sure what options Minnesota would have looking into next season (other than bringing up the Hamburglar...yikes!), as Stalock will be an UFA

[Tomdog]

I would think a 1 out 3 ratio for staylok would be about right.

That's pretty close to what they're doing.

[ClusterChuck]

4 hours ago, Tomdog said:

I would think a 1 out 3 ratio for staylok would be about right.

That's pretty close to what they're doing.

I suppose if you count his relief appearances.

I've always wanted to see more of a consistent rotation Like Tomdog said. 

2 of 3 for Dubnyk and if Stalock has a good game, Let him have the next then go back to the 2 of 3 pattern.

Of course schedule and who has a history of doing well against certain teams will factor in, But even those seem to even out.

Except for luongo starting at the X  

 

We know Dubnyk's game, Best and worst. Yet I'm not sure if Stalock has another level given the amount we get to see him.

He did have a chance last season with the 5-6 straight where he went .500. Maybe that's all he has and is what we see now.

 

I kind of doubt we'll ever see a tandem like the Fern/Roli days. Possibly might of had a Backy/Hards until his illness.

Then we were almost left with a Back n' Hack attack.

[Tomdog]

Relief appearances should not count and I would schedule staylock in regardless of how well dubs is playing. 

[sweetshot]

6 hours ago, ClusterChuck said:

I suppose if you count his relief appearances.

I've always wanted to see more of a consistent rotation Like Tomdog said. 

2 of 3 for Dubnyk and if Stalock has a good game, Let him have the next then go back to the 2 of 3 pattern.

Of course schedule and who has a history of doing well against certain teams will factor in, But even those seem to even out.

Except for luongo starting at the X  

 

We know Dubnyk's game, Best and worst. Yet I'm not sure if Stalock has another level given the amount we get to see him.

He did have a chance last season with the 5-6 straight where he went .500. Maybe that's all he has and is what we see now.

 

I kind of doubt we'll ever see a tandem like the Fern/Roli days. Possibly might of had a Backy/Hards until his illness.

Then we were almost left with a Back n' Hack attack.

At age 31, I think we've probably seen all Stalok has to offer. A decent backup. I still would like to see him play a few more games, though. He doesn't really hurt the Wild when he plays--he's a couple of games over .500. Seems to me if there is any benefit to be gained by Dubnyk it's worth it.

[Alexandron]

21 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

I think it is a bit steep....but that is nothing new.

For all the Wild coaching staff want to say about how "Stalock does a good job for us", they still run Dubnyk to the ground.
In truth, though I think Stalock is a decent backup, he CAN let in some maddening goals and oftentimes leaves me thinking that THAT is why Dubnyk is always run out there.

Duby can let in some softies too, but given his workload, he can sorta make up for it....with as little time as Stalock gets, he simply can't afford to give up those backbreakers.

 

Minnesota has needed a quality back up (or at least one they actually have true faith in) for quite some time now.
How nice would it be, if Dubnyk and his backup maybe did a 60-40 workload, and have Duby nice n fresh for the postseason!

Won't be happening with Stalock, just like it didn't happen with Keumper, but I am not sure what options Minnesota would have looking into next season (other than bringing up the Hamburglar...yikes!), as Stalock will be an UFA

I still like Stalock as our solid backup goaltender now, and even much better than Kuemper and everyone else we had during the last decade. In my opinion ,he is still our good option to use it for the next season and even more before our young promising goalies Kahkonen and Motte will be able to develop in Iowa. Both Dubnyk and Stalock need a team's support (like I said the same for the our goalies in Iowa). Very similar situation for our both teams at this moment. Minimal or even zero production from some team's players, +/- -4; -5 stats for some of them during the game makes our current position in a Division and a Conference. Still I am not sure that we will make playoffs this season. Good team but not a consistent in their results and a confidence. Any way, I liked a lot last game against Flames. We need sometimes some sparks of madness, to stand for each other, especially in a playoffs time, which we are missing most of the time as a real competitive team.

[rottenrefs]

With their Goals Against Average nearly the same, and their wins / loses not all that great for either of them, one might think regardless of playing Stalock more and Dubnyk less... That Dubnyk could be a bit sharper if he saw less of a workload. ??

 

Dubnyk 12 wins, 10 losses, (2 OT losses), 2.63 GAA, .913 Save %

Stalock 5 wins, 3 losses, 2.65 GAA, .904 Save %

[CreaseAndAssist]

Want a killer stat about Dubnyk?  Killer as in bad, Dubnyk is 44th out of 48 NHL goaltenders in 3rd period save percentage..sub .900%.  He needs to sit more...

[rottenrefs]

2 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

Want a killer stat about Dubnyk?  Killer as in bad, Dubnyk is 44th out of 48 NHL goaltenders in 3rd period save percentage..sub .900%.  He needs to sit more...

Wow, that's terrible!

 

The way I see it is neither of them are standing out as being much better than the other and relieving the guy who's supposed to be your main man come playoff time... Well, he's certainly not a standout. Playing him too much isn't going to make the team better.

[ClusterChuck]

14 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

Want a killer stat about Dubnyk?  Killer as in bad, Dubnyk is 44th out of 48 NHL goaltenders in 3rd period save percentage..sub .900%.  He needs to sit more...

I think everyone here agrees Dubnyk is overplayed. That stat is interesting but don't you think it's also reflects how we have not played a full 60 minute often times. Out of gas or Foot off gas.

 

[Alexandron]

On 12/17/2018 at 5:36 AM, Tomdog said:

I would think a 1 out 3 ratio for staylok would be about right.

That's pretty close to what they're doing.

Agree too. Good ratio, hope they will follow it proportionally well. Stalock should play every 3rd game or about 27-30 games per season. That is pretty close to what they are doing, but they are not distributing that ratio persistently well. At this moment they do that chaotically when one is overload and the other one is in a rusted condition. 

[Alexandron]

2 hours ago, ClusterChuck said:

I think everyone here agrees Dubnyk is overplayed. That stat is interesting but don't you think it's also reflects how we have not played a full 60 minute often times. Out of gas or Foot off gas.

 

Yes, that reflects our results even more. Out of gas, or foot off gas, or less luck, or less talent to put more pucks into the net and protect more our own net, or even older age , and even other some secondary factors play the role in our current standings.

[IllaZilla]

This is probably a bit long for this format, but...

 

Team	Frist Name	Last Name	Total Games	Games Started	Win	Loss	OTL	% of Total Games Started
VGK	Marc-Andre	Fleury	35	31	19	10	2	89%
OTT	Craig	Anderson	34	28	13	12	3	82%
TOR	Frederik	Andersen	33	27	17	9	1	82%
ANA	John	Gibson	34	27	14	9	4	79%
MIN	Devan	Dubnyk	32	25	12	10	2	78%
NYR	Henrik	Lundqvist	32	25	10	9	5	78%
NJD	Keith	Kinkaid	31	24	11	8	6	77%
STL	Jake	Allen	31	24	10	9	4	77%
MTL	Carey	Price	33	25	13	8	4	76%
WPG	Connor	Hellebuyck	33	25	15	8	1	76%
SJS	Martin	Jones	34	24	13	7	3	71%
VAN	Jacob	Markstrom	36	25	13	9	3	69%
CBJ	Sergei	Bobrovsky	32	22	12	10	1	69%
WAS	Braden	Holtby	32	22	13	7	2	69%
CHI	Corey	Crawford	35	23	6	14	2	66%
BUF	Carter	Hutton	34	22	13	8	2	65%
DET	Jimmy	Howard	34	22	10	7	4	65%
NAS	Pekka	Rinne	33	21	14	5	1	64%
COL	Semyon	Varlamov	35	22	11	7	3	63%
NYI	Thomas	Greiss	31	18	11	6	1	58%
DAL	Ben	Bishop	33	19	10	8	1	58%
PIT	Casey	DeSmith	32	18	10	5	4	56%
CAL	Mike	Smith	34	19	11	7	1	56%
EDM	Cam	Talbot	34	18	7	9	2	53%
TBL	Louis	Domingue	34	18	14	4	0	53%
BOS	Jaroslav	Halak	33	17	9	5	2	52%
BOS	Tuukka	Rask	33	16	8	7	2	48%
EDM	Mikko	Koskinen	34	16	11	4	1	47%
FLA	Roberto	Luongo	31	14	6	5	1	45%
FLA	James	Reimer	31	14	5	7	3	45%
CAL	David	Rittich	34	15	11	3	1	44%
TBL	Andrei	Vasilevskiy	34	15	10	3	2	44%
DAL	Anton	Khudobin	33	14	6	6	2	42%
NYI	Robin	Lehner	31	13	4	6	3	42%
ARI	Darcy	Kuemper	32	13	4	7	2	41%
CAR	Peter	Mrazek	32	13	5	6	2	41%
ARI	Antii	Raanta	32	12	5	6	0	38%
PIT	Matt	Murray	32	12	5	5	1	38%
NAS	Juuse	Saros	33	12	8	5	0	36%
BUF	Linus	Ullmark	34	12	7	1	3	35%
DET	Jonathan	Bernier	34	12	4	8	1	35%
LAK	Jack	Campbell	34	12	5	7	0	35%
LAK	Jonathan	Quick	34	12	2	8	2	35%
CAR	Curtis	McElhinney	32	11	7	3	1	34%
WAS	Phoenix	Copely	32	11	7	2	1	34%
CHI	Cam	Ward	35	12	4	5	4	34%
STL	Chad	Johnson	31	10	7	2	6	32%
COL	Phillip	Grubauer	35	11	7	2	3	31%
CBJ	Joonas	Korpisalo	32	10	5	2	2	31%
SJS	Aaron	Dell	34	10	5	4	2	29%
VAN	Anders	Nilsson	36	10	3	6	1	28%
LAK	Calvin	Petersen	34	9	4	4	1	26%
MTL	Antti	Niemi	33	8	4	3	1	24%
WPG	Laurent	Broissot	33	8	7	1	1	24%
NJD	Corey	Schneider	31	7	0	5	1	23%
ARI	Adin	Hill	32	7	5	3	0	22%
MIN	Alex	Stalock	32	7	5	3	0	22%
NYR	Alexandar	Georgiev	32	7	4	4	0	22%
ANA	Ryan	Miller	34	7	4	2	1	21%
TOR	Garrett	Sparks	33	6	4	1	1	18%
OTT	Mike	McKenna	34	4	1	2	1	12%
VGK	Malcom	Subban	35	4	0	4	0	11%

[Alexandron]

Thanks for posting those stats IllaZilla. Very nice info to study. Interesting would be to compare it with a data by the end of the regular season. Of course, it depends of the successful performance for both goalies and their health. Personally, I like the ratio for Washington Capitals team – 69% for Holtby and 34% for Copley. The other successful  teams Tampa and  Calgary having so  far pretty similar ratio  on using both goaltenders   53% -56% for a goalie#1 to 44% for a goalie#2, which is practically almost equalizing their workload. So far we have 78% involvement time for Dubnyk and 22% for Stalock.

[Math]

1 hour ago, Alexandron said:

The other successful  teams Tampa and  Calgary having so  far pretty similar ratio  on using both goaltenders   53% -56% for a goalie#1 to 44% for a goalie#2, which is practically almost equalizing their workload. So far we have 78% involvement time for Dubnyk and 22% for Stalock.

 

Yes, but don't forget that both Vasilievsky and Smith were injured. We therefore should see those numbers along with the goalie who was set as the back-up.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

I know many Wild fans like Stalock (and I DON'T think he is terrible...just not a huge fan), but looking over at potential UFA's for next season, I'd like to see the Wild possibly make a run at plucking Casey DeSmith from the Penguins. 

A UFA, making about the same that Stalock is making now (both sub 700K), 4 years younger than our current backup, he nonetheless, has put up better numbers and that is working behind a Pittsburgh defense that has lots of holes in it.

If he can be convinced to come over, maybe give the 27 yr old double his current salary (something in the 3yr, 1.5-1.7M per range) to be Dubnyk's backup, I think Duby's workload can be reduced enough to keep him fresh, while still playing the lion's share of games, but I rather like DeSmith to not only not miss a beat having Dubnyk sit, but even push Duby for the starter job.

Good healthy goalie competition for ice time isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't think Stalock can push Dubnyk the way a guy like DeSmith possibly can.

 

Here is a quick comparison of Stalock and DeSmith this season (I even threw in Devan Dubnyk for further comparison)

Yea, yea, I know...DeSmith has more games played than Stalock, but he still is firmly BEHIND Matt Murray over there and played while Murray dealt with health issues...still though, the Penguins are not a solid defensive team, yet DeSmith put up damned good numbers.

 

Of PARTICULAR note, look at the save % in the higher danger areas (shots from 1-15 feet, and from 15-30 feet... DeSmith beats both Stalock AND Duby on those), while the Minnesota netminders have a slight edge on the long range shots (the much easier ones)....albeit DeSmith's .955 is nothing to sneeze at.

 

Just sayin, I would feel better with DeSmith backing up Dubnyk for the next 2 or 3 seasons or so more than Stalock….. and after that period ends (Duby's contract will come due), then the Wild can evaluate and see where they are...maybe even have a more viable option ready from the minors.

[Hockey-78]

On 12/17/2018 at 3:23 AM, rottenrefs said:

Are the Wild rotating them enough? Better than last year?

 

Currently Dubnyk has started 25 games to Stalock's 7 games. Dubnyk has been relieved a couple times... Not bad?

 

Last year Dubnyk saw about 72% of their games and this year he's seen about 78%. Too steep of a load or just right?

 

What do you think?

Not rotating enough. Not better than last year, status quo. I don't think the coaching staff sees what we are seeing nor did they last year.

 

Dubnyk's ceiling is 50 games a season.

[ClusterChuck]

18 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

 

Just sayin, I would feel better with DeSmith backing up Dubnyk for the next 2 or 3 seasons or so more than Stalock….. and after that period ends (Duby's contract will come due), then the Wild can evaluate and see where they are...maybe even have a more viable option ready from the minors.

Who knows what Fenton is thinking right now. He possibly could move Stalock in a package with somebody else soon for a needed player which would open this possibility or just bring up Kakkonen to replace him.

I just don't see Stalock being here as a tandem for much longer.

 

[sweetshot]

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 6:13 PM, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

I know many Wild fans like Stalock (and I DON'T think he is terrible...just not a huge fan), but looking over at potential UFA's for next season, I'd like to see the Wild possibly make a run at plucking Casey DeSmith from the Penguins. 

A UFA, making about the same that Stalock is making now (both sub 700K), 4 years younger than our current backup, he nonetheless, has put up better numbers and that is working behind a Pittsburgh defense that has lots of holes in it.

If he can be convinced to come over, maybe give the 27 yr old double his current salary (something in the 3yr, 1.5-1.7M per range) to be Dubnyk's backup, I think Duby's workload can be reduced enough to keep him fresh, while still playing the lion's share of games, but I rather like DeSmith to not only not miss a beat having Dubnyk sit, but even push Duby for the starter job.

Good healthy goalie competition for ice time isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't think Stalock can push Dubnyk the way a guy like DeSmith possibly can.

 

Here is a quick comparison of Stalock and DeSmith this season (I even threw in Devan Dubnyk for further comparison)

Yea, yea, I know...DeSmith has more games played than Stalock, but he still is firmly BEHIND Matt Murray over there and played while Murray dealt with health issues...still though, the Penguins are not a solid defensive team, yet DeSmith put up damned good numbers.

 

Of PARTICULAR note, look at the save % in the higher danger areas (shots from 1-15 feet, and from 15-30 feet... DeSmith beats both Stalock AND Duby on those), while the Minnesota netminders have a slight edge on the long range shots (the much easier ones)....albeit DeSmith's .955 is nothing to sneeze at.

 

Just sayin, I would feel better with DeSmith backing up Dubnyk for the next 2 or 3 seasons or so more than Stalock….. and after that period ends (Duby's contract will come due), then the Wild can evaluate and see where they are...maybe even have a more viable option ready from the minors.

I'd be all in if they could get Desmith. I've actually seen him play some minutes--IMO he looks pretty good.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

12 minutes ago, sweetshot said:

I'd be all in if they could get Desmith. I've actually seen him play some minutes--IMO he looks pretty good.

 

Yea, he seems to be that "late bloomer" type.
If it weren't for Matt Murray (maybe MAF before him), he might have been the Pittsburgh regular starter.
Well, he also DID take the time to go to college (good move on his part), get his education and have an outstanding college career, so that probably played into him becoming recognized in the NHL only just now at age 27.

But yea, he is pretty good. The Penguins always seem to have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to goaltenders.

 

Minnesota could have other options in the off season too.... Maybe a Jimmy Howard on a short term deal or a Keith Kinkaid from New Jersey ( I know, I know....Kinkaid's numbers recently have been bad....but then, NJ is HORRIBLE), because Kinkaid actually did hold down the goalie position pretty well through most of Cory Schneider's meltdowns.

Still though, I like Casey DeSmith head n shoulders above either of those guys.
And if there were some way, ANY way, the Wild brass could convince him to come on over, I think they should.

 

[Antti_Laxative]

Manny/Rollie redux

[IllaZilla]

10 hours ago, Antti_Laxative said:

Manny/Rollie redux

Ah, the good ol’ days...entire threads that sounded like a Miller Lite commercial...”Manny!” “Rollie!” “Manny!” “Rollie!”

[Antti_Laxative]

Ha! Exactly