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Goalies... Dubnyk & Stalock


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They 100% for sure need to rotate Dubnyk and Stalock a lot more. Like somebody said it seems for Dubs his ceiling is about 50 to 55 games a regular season. Not saying Stalock is better then Dubnyk but he for sure needs to play more. I believe it would help the Wild win a few more with a more balanced workload then what we see now. I still think that the Wild have two back up goalies overall. Especially in the playoffs Dubnyk actually gets worse. Worse save percentage and Goals Against Average goes up. This tells me that Dubnyk is not able to handle the added pressure and go to the next gear. Maybe cutting his workload could help this but it's hard to tell since the Wild refuse to do this.

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And now Dubs is going to the All Star Game....

I immediately thought of this forum 😛

 

They must make their selection pretty early in the season since his numbers lately have been less than ASG material. ;) 

Or there's still so many recognizable name starters on the shelf.

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39 minutes ago, ClusterChuck said:

And now Dubs is going to the All Star Game....

I immediately thought of this forum 😛

 

They must make their selection pretty early in the season since his numbers lately have been less than ASG material. ;) 

Or there's still so many recognizable name starters on the shelf.

Unfortunately dubnyks selection is because they needed someone from the wild and there are a lot of quality wingers on other teams. Otherwise I am sure it would have been dumba. 

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2 hours ago, ClusterChuck said:

And now Dubs is going to the All Star Game....

I immediately thought of this forum 😛

 

I immediately puked. But as many know, the whole thing is a charade.

 

Howard, Price, Dubnyk, Rinne, Holtby, Lundqvist, Fleury, Gibson. The TOP8, yeah.

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On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 12:52 PM, ClusterChuck said:

Who knows what Fenton is thinking right now. He possibly could move Stalock in a package with somebody else soon for a needed player which would open this possibility or just bring up Kakkonen to replace him.

I just don't see Stalock being here as a tandem for much longer.

 

 

Can we trade for scouts preferably Pittsburgh's scouts? 😉

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1/5/2019.  Doobie #3 in Goalie Starts and #4 in total TOI.  Seems like the Wild have had a lot of gaps this season that allowed him rest between games.  IMO it's probably 90% up to Mason to decide if Doobie starts.  But he could be over-ruled by BB, I'm sure.  Clearly the Wild is dependent on Doobie and will ride him.  Fantasy to hope for a miracle that produces another goalie that will do any better IMO.

 

Just like Suter's TOI - you can sit back and say ice time should be reduced but when it's game time and crunch time in a game, you're going to go with the guy that gives you the best chance to win.  

 

From the peanut gallery - I'd like to see Doobie play less.

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Yup, those are the key questions.  Along with - is Doobie really being over-played?  Is he actually tired, or will he be tired for the Playoffs at this pace?  Two years ago, I did think he was worn out and tired due to Keumper's meltdown.  Last year?  Maybe.  But it wasn't his fault Wild lost IMO.  Wild lost because Forwards choked on far too many great chances and defensemen failed to contribute offensively.

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49 minutes ago, Tomdog said:

The question is, does a tired dubnyk give you a better chance to win than a rested staylock?

Will a rested dubnyk give you a better chance in the playoffs?

Tom, I don't the first is THE question. Dubnyk's now had 12(!) straight starts in which he's been twice pulled. That pretty much tells you the amount of faith BB has for Stalock - slim to none. Stalock is not going to be the guy giving him some relief.

 

Based on his history answer to the 2nd question is an absolute yes! He cannot carry this workload. And since BB has already decided to give him this many games in December-January, we probably won't see him play any less in March. So like in previous years he'll be burned out come the playoffs.

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We'll 'probably' get to see Stalock in the B to B. Nice and real game rusty. Only thing to offset that will be his adrenaline to actually get to start.

Like 78 said, BB (and/or Mason) Must have no faith in Stalock, Because BB is going way against what he said he wanted to do playing time wise at the start of the season.

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Sad thing is, guys, if the Wild had a more capable backup (or at least one that the coaching staff trusted more), maybe the question of whether a tired Dubnyk this, or that, doesn't NEED to be asked.

The way it is SUPPOSED to go is, Dubnyk is our number one....but the coaching staff, nay, the entire team, at any time should feel whomever the backup is, can go in, still keep the team in the game, and don't have to change the way they play because "they have to protect the netminder".

 

I've seen Alex Stalock have some good games, I have seen him have some bad games...just like any other goalie, and it is NOT lost on me that the backup role is not the easiest to cope with.
That said, I've also seen Stalock do some things out there that just leave me scratching my head and just seems to let in goals at the worst possible moment...…….whether his own fault or product of his defense...… and things like that lead to a loss of confidence in the guy.....and thus the team feels Dubnyk has to play 85 games a year!

 

I already posted some ideas earlier in this thread, but I really, really feel the Wild should make it a priority in finding a capable backup....not just a guy who they figure to play just 20 games or so, but a guy who can honestly take the workload off of Dubnyk, without really replacing him, and have the team be confident in the guy, and give us the freshest possible and focused Devan Dubnyk we can get for any stretch runs and playoffs (if there are any).

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Over the last 13 games, during which Dubnyk has had 12 straight starts, there has only been one back-to-back situation: Dec 6-7 (Loss to CGY 2-0 and Loss to EDM 7-2). Every other game has had at least one day off between them:

 

Dec 6 vs CGY (L 0-2)

Dec 7 vs EDM (L 2-5)

Dec 8 off

Dec 9 off

Dec 10 off

Dec 11 vs MTL (W 7-1)

Dec 12 off

Dec 13 FLA (W 5-1)

Dec 14 off

Dec 15 CGY (L 1-2)

Dec 16 off

Dec 17 off

Dec 18 SJS (L 0-4)

Dec 19 off

Dec 20 PIT (L 1-2)

Dec 21 off

Dec 22 DAL (L 1-2 OT)

Dec 23 off

Dec 24 off

Dec 25 off

Dec 26 off

Dec 27 CHI (L 2-5)

Dec 28 off

Dec 29 WPG (W 3-1)

Dec 30 off

Dec 31 PIT (L 2-3)

Jan 1 off

Jan 2 off

Jan 3 TOR (W 4-3)

Jan 4 off

Jan 5 OTT (W 4-3)

 

What strikes me is the number of goals scored in support of the goaltender. In both losses to Calgary, the Wild scored one goal in six periods. One. In the loss to San Jose, they scored zero goals. In Dallas they scored one goal. In the first Pittsburgh game they scored one goal. Dubnyk would have had to have basically pitched a shutout during that entire stretch for the team to have won any of those games.

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@IllaZilla

 

And the lack of scoring also complicates matters when it comes to goalie confidence and usage.

Obviously, if the team flat out isn't scoring (such as Minnesota has...or rather has NOT), then ANY goalie will feel he has to shut out everyone he faces.....and I can only imagine the mental wear n tear that causes a goalie to have to carry around.

 

That would affect his play, which in turn leads the team to possibly feel the goalie "isn't right"...it's a vicious circle!

 

I mean, it could ENTIRELY be possible that Minnesota can get ahold of a can't miss back up goalie to Dubnyk....but if the team isn't scoring, then he too will fall victim to the "gotta get a shut our or we lose!" syndrome.

 

Still though, with regards to Alex Stalock, I have never been a huge fan....can't say I hate the guy or think he is terrible (lawd knows there are much worse options out there!), but even going back to his San Jose days, I just never felt he was the kind of guy you could rely on start after start (when he got them) to help keep your team in the game, truly give your starter a rest, and not have the team miss too much of a beat.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

In the first Pittsburgh game they scored one goal. Dubnyk would have had to have basically pitched a shutout during that entire stretch for the team to have won any of those games.

No, just not give up a marshmellow soft goal against the Pitts:

 

https://www.nhl.com/video/rust-scores-on-open-net/t-300012546/c-64127003

 

Against the Sharks this one was easy too:

 

https://www.nhl.com/video/couture-scores-his-second-goal/t-300009808/c-64079503

 

Radulov's OT winner was a horrible goal to give up. Dubnyk's own expression reveals that too:

 

https://www.nhl.com/video/couture-scores-his-second-goal/t-300009808/c-64079503

 

I just picked out a few games you mentioned. Dubnyk's constantly giving up soft goals. You need to be hell of an advocate to argument that "he's a good goalie, we're just not scoring enough." Vice versa, he could support the team by not giving up very demoralising goals.

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3 hours ago, Hockey-78 said:

No, just not give up a marshmellow soft goal against the Pitts:

 

https://www.nhl.com/video/rust-scores-on-open-net/t-300012546/c-64127003

 

Against the Sharks this one was easy too:

 

https://www.nhl.com/video/couture-scores-his-second-goal/t-300009808/c-64079503

 

Radulov's OT winner was a horrible goal to give up. Dubnyk's own expression reveals that too:

 

https://www.nhl.com/video/couture-scores-his-second-goal/t-300009808/c-64079503

 

I just picked out a few games you mentioned. Dubnyk's constantly giving up soft goals. You need to be hell of an advocate to argument that "he's a good goalie, we're just not scoring enough." Vice versa, he could support the team by not giving up very demoralising goals.

 

So Dubnyk is "constantly" giving up soft goals. Based on what measure? Based on what you determine is a soft goal? What exactly is a "soft" goal?

 

As far as the goal against the Pens, the game was tied at that point in time. To me, the bigger question is why was Zucker not covering his man? Why was Zucker lollygagging 10 feet behind Rust? Yes, Dubnyk made a bad pass, but how is Zucker not covering his man Dubnyk's fault? And why were the rest of the Wild only able to muster that one goal in that game? So it's Ok for the 22 other players to only score one goal, but the goaltender is not to allow any?

 

As far as Dubnyk giving up Logan Coture's "soft" goal, please explain how that caused the Wild to lose the game when the other 22 members of the team scored zero goals. And the Wild were already down 2-0 at that point. So if Dubnyk makes that save, how does that contribute to a Wild win when the other 22 players scored zero goals?

 

Or Radulov's OT winner. Again, why could the other 22 members of the Wild only muster one goal?

 

Dubnyk may give up bad goals, but name me one goaltender that doesn't.

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6 hours ago, sweetshot said:

I really don't think we'll need to be too worried about a rested goalie for the playoffs.😥

You're so right. History will repeat itself at this rate. Same song, only different chords.

 

 

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15 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

So Dubnyk is "constantly" giving up soft goals. Based on what measure? Based on what you determine is a soft goal? What exactly is a "soft" goal?

 

As far as the goal against the Pens, the game was tied at that point in time. To me, the bigger question is why was Zucker not covering his man? Why was Zucker lollygagging 10 feet behind Rust? Yes, Dubnyk made a bad pass, but how is Zucker not covering his man Dubnyk's fault? And why were the rest of the Wild only able to muster that one goal in that game? So it's Ok for the 22 other players to only score one goal, but the goaltender is not to allow any?

 

As far as Dubnyk giving up Logan Coture's "soft" goal, please explain how that caused the Wild to lose the game when the other 22 members of the team scored zero goals. And the Wild were already down 2-0 at that point. So if Dubnyk makes that save, how does that contribute to a Wild win when the other 22 players scored zero goals?

 

Or Radulov's OT winner. Again, why could the other 22 members of the Wild only muster one goal?

 

Dubnyk may give up bad goals, but name me one goaltender that doesn't.

A soft goal is a subjective measure, sure. I pointed out quickly three goals that stand out as soft. There are more and worse to Dubnyk's credit if one really dig's in to the subject. Some agree with me, some don't. That's why we're here I guess... to discuss.

 

The Pitts game is easy to answer. Without that gaffe the opposition couldn't score any more either, it was a tight game. In tight games these blunders cost and that's one of goalies occupational hazards - his mistakes show on the score sheet immediately. With all due respect, blaming any one other than Dubnyk for that serious stickhandling error is an absurd claim.

 

I never said Couture's goal was a decisive one. It was an easy shot to stop but turned out to be a goal that probably took the wind out of the team. Like I said, there are far worse to showcase.

 

Against Dallas, the opposition could score as few as we. It was another tight game, heading to a shootout. It wasn't any other player's fault Dubnyk couldn't take care of the angle. With this logic you're demonstrating it's never goalie's fault; always the team's for not scoring enough. I 100% don't believe that's the case and neither do friends of mine outside this forum. There has to be and always is a personal responsibility which every player has to carry with him on the ice.

 

On your final point I can to my big suprise and probably yours too assure you that we agree 100%: Dubnyk gives up "bad" (if that's a synonym for soft) goals and so do other goalies too. I just think he does that way too often. Plus if the rumor is true which we've heard in previous seasons that Dubnyk can dictate how many games he starts... that is so selfish and bad for the team. He really isn't that good of a goalie, he can handle only so many games.

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I think you should stomp your foot and hold your breath until everything is perfectly magically made perfect!

 

Doobie is an upper middle third goalie.  You can claim he sucks, Sucks, SUCKS...  But that diesn't make it true.  There are better goalies but many are worse.  Pure fantasy to think Fenton is going to magically find a super stud goalie.

 

IMO poor scoring and a very shallow talent pool for forwards and D is much more concerning than Doobie.

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How about on both are guilty - our goalies who are even not capable to make any shutouts at all this season (more than 40 games already) from one side and our offense poorly producing this season too from the other side. No screening and a manageable to pick the puck surprisingly is not taking by a goalie, because of his slow, not fast enough reaction leading to a stupid soft goal. The same paradigm we have seen for years from Niklas Backstrom. Again, that is an evident part from one side. And from the other side - 22 bulls are multiple times stupidly running and producing zero goals because they are not capable to put that stupid puck smart enough and accurate into the opposing net. Especially, that part is evident for years(the last 6) in our team's playoffs seasons.

 

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Yep, Stalock all but said in tonight's intermission he's probably going to get the start tomorrow night. Reid noted he's not started since Dec. 6, 2018. For those who think that's part of the role of a backup goalie as he sits and rusts for a month; due to the coach not having any faith in him... I remember Harding going through the same crap (and I brought it up OFTEN) that their stats aren't that far apart. Their being Backstrom & Harding back in the day and Dubnyk & Stalock again now.

 

What the coach doesn't have faith in is his offense.

 

When the Wild play teams WELL UNDER .500 like the Kings, Senators, Flyers, Blues, Coyotes who does Boudreau put in net? He can't put Stalock in there because just like every other frikkin year in the history of the Wild, the team is almost desperate for a win so they use their #1 guy.

 

PATHETIC

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On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 12:08 PM, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

I've seen Alex Stalock have some good games, I have seen him have some bad games...just like any other goalie, and it is NOT lost on me that the backup role is not the easiest to cope with.
That said, I've also seen Stalock do some things out there that just leave me scratching my head and just seems to let in goals at the worst possible moment...…….whether his own fault or product of his defense...… and things like that lead to a loss of confidence in the guy.....and thus the team feels Dubnyk has to play 85 games a year!

Here's the deal, if you didn't specify which goalie you are talking about this statement would work with Dubnyk just as well. I can't figure out why any coach would allow one guy to get worked into the ground when they goalie has already shown he is not good at handling the workload. I wonder if the coaches aren't making decisions but actually Dubnyk. Otherwise why in the world would BB say he is going to fix the workload and we are now back to the same spot we are every year with his workload. I am still not convinced the coach has the say all on this team. 
And it's not like Dubnyk and Stalock have big differences in career stats. Dubnyk has a career .916 save percentage and 2.54 Goals Against Average well Stalock has a career .910 save percentage and 2.51 Goals Against Average. They are basically even. Something is really wrong internally. I would love to be a fly on the wall in BB office and locker room to see what is really going on.

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Not sure why people are so upset over Dubnyk. Look at his numbers compared to other goaltenders.

 

For goaltenders starting 25 or more games (21 total goaltenders), he ranks #9 for wins with 16, tied with Carey Price, Braden Holtby, and Pekka Rinne, and ahead of Semyon Varmolov.

 

For goaltenders starting 25 or more games (21 total goaltenders), he ranks #9 in Save Percentage with 0.915, ahead of M.A Fleury, Semyon Varmalov, Braden Holtby, Connor Hellebuyck, Henrik Lundquist, and Carey Price.

 

For goaltenders starting 25 or more games (21 total goaltenders), he ranks #7 in Goals Against with 2.56, ahead of Carey Price, Connor Hellebuyck, Semyon Varmalov, Braden Holtby, and Henrik Lundquist.

 

He's posting better numbers than some of the big name goaltenders out there right now. Is he a brick wall? No. But he's a top ten goaltender.

 

Dubnyk isn't the problem. The problem is the other 22 guys on the team who aren't putting the puck in the net. 

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