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hf101

Soooo.... no Quenneville this season ??

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2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

I don't understand what the H.E. double hockey sticks this team is doing now.   They canned Hextall becasue he wouldn't commit to "winning now" and making moves to do so... but then they have no replacement set up for him and they have to start interviewing them.  WTF?   

 

So they finally get a guy in place whose most exciting qualification is that... well he's done it before.

 

And after a few weeks he finds a few things:  1) that the coach is a problem (which we could have told him) but ONLY THE HEAD COACH.  NOT THE GUYS IN CHARGE OF THE FOUNDERING PK AND PP UNITS????

 

So he decides to replace that coach (yay!) but once again... THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT PREPARED.  So they bring up the AHL coach on an interim basis.

 

Great, so Gordon will take over while they iron out a contract with Q or with some other grade A awesome coach (I still like Keefe), right?  Nope. He's here through the rest of the season on a 51 game try out.  

 

Which says to me they're writing off the year at this point after the horrendous road trip. 

 

WTF?  What happened to the "win now" philosophy that got Hextall fired?  

 

 

Agree completely.  Said many of the same things in a different post in a different thread.

 

Why even bother firing Hextall and Hakstol??

 

I wonder if Comcast underestimated Q's desire to sit this year out or overestimated their ability to convince him otherwise.

Edited by vis
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Maybe this has already been covered, but what can I expect to see from Gordon?  What is his style of coaching?

 

To be honest, I still dont know Hak's style was.  It was like there was no style.  He just told the guys to play hockey while he slept with his eyes open.

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1 hour ago, vis said:

Agree, but not sure if it's Homer or Dave Scott.  There were kind of this way with Snyder around as well.  After Snyder's passing, I think Comcast was probably content leaving the hockey guys (i.e. Holmgren and Hextall) alone until this year when the fan sentiment and financial performance took a downturn - especially after shelling out big $$$ to refurbish the Wells Fargo Center.  I don't mean to absolve Holmgren, though.  I don't get the sense that he is able to push back against the business guys.

 

Totally agree that's probably what's motivating it, but it's the paranoid knee jerk spaz out manner with which it's happening.  It's what Homer did before.  IT worked well in the beginning (Forsberg, Timmo, Hartnell, Briere, Laviolette, Pronger) but then he went totally off the rails and got the team into the mess Hextall had to get it out of.  Almost every move he made after the 2010 run seemed like it had all the strategic in depth thought and analysis a man with a gun to his head can muster.  And it feels like he's on the same type of manic war path now.  

 

Like Scott says, "We need to do something to get these fans engaged, I don't care if it's not what's best for the team."  Homer goes straight for the jugular atomic options instead of telling Hextall, "hey look, these comcast guys are scared about fans ditching us, I know you believe in your path, but let's you and me come up with something we can do to keep THEM and THE FANS from thinking we're morons,"  Homer goes off half cocked making changes without any plans for what comes next.    

 

The man clearly has an M.O. and this is it.  Leap, then look and tell everyone else to eff off if it doesn't work... and I say this acknowledging that it worked early in his tenure... but it stopped in earnest about 6-7 years ago or so.    

 

 

Edited by King Knut
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1 hour ago, vis said:

Agree completely.  Said many of the same things in a different post in a different thread.

 

Why even bother firing Hextall and Hakstol??

 

I wonder if Comcast underestimated Q's desire to sit this year out or overestimated their ability to convince him otherwise.

 

 

It's like Homer had Fletch make a few calls, realized no one was gonna send Gudreau or McDavid or someone to us for MacDonld and said, "who the hell knows?  fire the coach I guess!"

 

Long story short is that what has become clear to me is that this is NOT about winning hockey games.  This is about how management is being perceived and trying to save face in the public and desperately trying to keep from losing season ticket holders. 

 

These are not supposed to be hockey morons.  If 90% of the fan base can see Hak wasn't hacking it (sorry), Homer calling Hextall aside and telling him, "Look Hak's gotta go or else I have to fire you so I can replace him" should have been the sane management choice.  I assumed that day it's what happened.

 

It does not sound nor look lt right now.  

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31 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

 

It's like Homer had Fletch make a few calls, realized no one was gonna send Gudreau or McDavid or someone to us for MacDonld and said, "who the hell knows?  fire the coach I guess!"

 

Long story short is that what has become clear to me is that this is NOT about winning hockey games.  This is about how management is being perceived and trying to save face in the public and desperately trying to keep from losing season ticket holders. 

 

These are not supposed to be hockey morons.  If 90% of the fan base can see Hak wasn't hacking it (sorry), Homer calling Hextall aside and telling him, "Look Hak's gotta go or else I have to fire you so I can replace him" should have been the sane management choice.  I assumed that day it's what happened.

 

It does not sound nor look lt right now.  

OK it's about winning hockey games... BUT if it comes out that they upset Quenneville with bush league nonsense, then they reversed course on saving face rather quickly.  Pertaining to the Hex/Hak mess, they allowed Hextall to do his "patience" thing but at some point, the young players have to progress and perform. There has to be a PROPER balance between patience and performance or that player is in jeopardy of losing his job or being moved. I never saw that proper balance when Hextall was here. Right or wrong, these player are paid to perform up to expectation at some point. Hakstol did not hold up to the "they'll improve because I'm a young players' coach" That being said, I don't want a revolving door of players are not dealt with...with patience.  I don't want the patience 'pendulum'  to completely swing in the direction of impulsiveness.  Maybe I'm a little scattered with my thoughts, but I think you know what I'm saying.

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51 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

 

It's like Homer had Fletch make a few calls, realized no one was gonna send Gudreau or McDavid or someone to us for MacDonld and said, "who the hell knows?  fire the coach I guess!"

 

Long story short is that what has become clear to me is that this is NOT about winning hockey games.  This is about how management is being perceived and trying to save face in the public and desperately trying to keep from losing season ticket holders. 

 

These are not supposed to be hockey morons.  If 90% of the fan base can see Hak wasn't hacking it (sorry), Homer calling Hextall aside and telling him, "Look Hak's gotta go or else I have to fire you so I can replace him" should have been the sane management choice.  I assumed that day it's what happened.

 

It does not sound nor look lt right now.  

OK it's about winning hockey games... BUT if it comes out that they upset Quenneville with bush league nonsense, then they reversed course on saving face rather quickly.  Pertaining to the Hex/Hak mess, they allowed Hextall to do his "patience" thing but at some point, the young players have to progress and perform. There has to be a PROPER balance between patience and performance or that player is in jeopardy of losing his job or being moved. I never saw that proper balance when Hextall was here. Right or wrong, these player are paid to perform up to expectation at some point. Hakstol did not hold up to the "they'll improve because I'm a young players' coach" mantra. That being said, I don't want a revolving door of players are not dealt with...with patience.  I don't want the patience 'pendulum'  to completely swing in the direction of impulsiveness, either.  Maybe I'm a little scattered with my thoughts, but I think you know what I'm saying.

Edited by FD19372

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Disappointment.  

Disappointed in how the team is playing this year.  

Disappointed that they fired Hextall.  

Disappointed that Fletcher was hired to replace Hexy.

Disappointed that they had to fire the coach, not that I wanted him to stay.  It just reflects how this team is playing. 

Disappointed that Scott Gordon is the interim coach when Quenneville is available and wasn't even contacted.  

I can't imagine how disappointed I will be if the team starts playing better and Fletcher decides to remove the interim tag from Gordon.

Disappointment.

 

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2 hours ago, FD19372 said:

OK it's about winning hockey games... BUT if it comes out that they upset Quenneville with bush league nonsense, then they reversed course on saving face rather quickly.  Pertaining to the Hex/Hak mess, they allowed Hextall to do his "patience" thing but at some point, the young players have to progress and perform. There has to be a PROPER balance between patience and performance or that player is in jeopardy of losing his job or being moved. I never saw that proper balance when Hextall was here. Right or wrong, these player are paid to perform up to expectation at some point. Hakstol did not hold up to the "they'll improve because I'm a young players' coach" That being said, I don't want a revolving door of players are not dealt with...with patience.  I don't want the patience 'pendulum'  to completely swing in the direction of impulsiveness.  Maybe I'm a little scattered with my thoughts, but I think you know what I'm saying.

 

Mink ow what you’re saying, but i’m A firm believer that Hakstol was the main issue with the talent not performing.  

 

There’s a decent chance he laid a groundwork of fundamentals that will serve these players extremely well in the long term, but he just couldn’t cut it against NHL competition and use those fundamentals and talent to their fullest.  

 

This year was supposed to be Go time 1.0 of the Hextall era.  That it wasn’t and the fact that it was clearly Hak’s straight up X’s and O’s  inferiorority at this level, should have been obvious to Hextall. It cost him his job and frankly I think that was still a mistake.  Maybe Gordon can help, but lord I hope they don’t blow this team up (aside from the obvious ones that were out anyway). 

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15 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Totally agree that's probably what's motivating it, but it's the paranoid knee jerk spaz out manner with which it's happening.  It's what Homer did before.  IT worked well in the beginning (Forsberg, Timmo, Hartnell, Briere, Laviolette, Pronger) but then he went totally off the rails and got the team into the mess Hextall had to get it out of.  Almost every move he made after the 2010 run seemed like it had all the strategic in depth thought and analysis a man with a gun to his head can muster.  And it feels like he's on the same type of manic war path now.  

 

Like Scott says, "We need to do something to get these fans engaged, I don't care if it's not what's best for the team."  Homer goes straight for the jugular atomic options instead of telling Hextall, "hey look, these comcast guys are scared about fans ditching us, I know you believe in your path, but let's you and me come up with something we can do to keep THEM and THE FANS from thinking we're morons,"  Homer goes off half cocked making changes without any plans for what comes next.    

 

The man clearly has an M.O. and this is it.  Leap, then look and tell everyone else to eff off if it doesn't work... and I say this acknowledging that it worked early in his tenure... but it stopped in earnest about 6-7 years ago or so.    

I hear you.  I would like to know more about the dynamic between Holmgren and his bosses.  Like, did Scott say: "You need to fire Hextall?"  Or was Scott less direct and Homer decide on his own that firing Hextall was the right course?  Also, to be fair, I don't know if Holmgren pulled the plug on Hakstol or if that was Fletcher or, again, Dave Scott.  My sense, however, is that Holmgren doesn't initiate action on his own.  I think someone has to either plant a seed or tell him outright what they want done.

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15 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

 

It's like Homer had Fletch make a few calls, realized no one was gonna send Gudreau or McDavid or someone to us for MacDonld and said, "who the hell knows?  fire the coach I guess!"

 

Long story short is that what has become clear to me is that this is NOT about winning hockey games.  This is about how management is being perceived and trying to save face in the public and desperately trying to keep from losing season ticket holders. 

 

These are not supposed to be hockey morons.  If 90% of the fan base can see Hak wasn't hacking it (sorry), Homer calling Hextall aside and telling him, "Look Hak's gotta go or else I have to fire you so I can replace him" should have been the sane management choice.  I assumed that day it's what happened.

 

It does not sound nor look lt right now.  

 

I think a part of it is that they didn't sufficiently "tank" and prepare the fans for it. They tried to remain competitive while rebuilding, and completely lucked in to Nolan Patrick.

 

The Rangers sufficiently prepared their fans. They sold off big pieces. And they're actually decent. Even if they weren't, management was upfront about it to fans and season ticket holders.

 

The Flyers didn't do that, and naturally, fan apathy set in because the message from the organization was confusing and bipolar. 

 

 

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23 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said:

The fact that Quenville has not been hired yet by either the Flyers or Blues is quite telling.  To me its either him wanting too much damn money, which I am sure of.  And many do not think he is the right guy now days.  Put me in that category.  Other guys will be available later, and love him or hate him, Ruff is one name that to me is a solid one. If not Philly then St Louis. Ted Nolan to me would be another. I am sure the AHL has plenty of good candidates also

 

Is there any people capable of coaching in the NHL without a Sabres affiliation?

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47 minutes ago, vis said:

I hear you.  I would like to know more about the dynamic between Holmgren and his bosses.  Like, did Scott say: "You need to fire Hextall?"  Or was Scott less direct and Homer decide on his own that firing Hextall was the right course?  Also, to be fair, I don't know if Holmgren pulled the plug on Hakstol or if that was Fletcher or, again, Dave Scott.  My sense, however, is that Holmgren doesn't initiate action on his own.  I think someone has to either plant a seed or tell him outright what they want done.

 

My gut says Hextall made Homer look bad or talked back or insulted Homer somehow in a meeting in front of Scott & Co.  

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4 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

My gut says Hextall made Homer look bad or talked back or insulted Homer somehow in a meeting in front of Scott & Co.  

I don't know.  Anything is possible.  Kind of seems out of character for both Hextall and Homer, imo.

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6 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

My gut says Hextall made Homer look bad or talked back or insulted Homer somehow in a meeting in front of Scott & Co.  

Hextall shined 2 Stanley Cup rings in Holmgren's face. Holmgren was trying to chew gum, use his typewriter and abacus, and became annoyed and distracted.

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10 minutes ago, vis said:

I don't know.  Anything is possible.  Kind of seems out of character for both Hextall and Homer, imo.

 

To me it was the past four years that  seemed out of character of Homer.  Sadly,   None of what’s happened since Hextall was fired seems out of character with the Homer we knew from 2007-2014. 

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1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

My gut says Hextall made Homer look bad or talked back or insulted Homer somehow in a meeting in front of Scott & Co.  

 

I saw a leak somewhere that Hextall told Scott, "*&$% off, you're not a hockey guy," one too many times. 

 

I'm not joking, I just can't remember where I saw it.

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21 hours ago, King Knut said:

Which says to me they're writing off the year at this point after the horrendous road trip. 

 

WTF?  What happened to the "win now" philosophy that got Hextall fired?  

 

From where I sit, they're still looking at being "8 points out of a playoff spot" not "writing off the year."

 

I'm not at all saying I agree with them, but that's IMO what they are looking at. They're hoping that some magic chicken wings and pizza party or young goalie savior can turn this around, get them into the playoffs and then, of course, anything can happen.

 

It doesn't and won't but it could.

 

Bringing up Hart, for example, is a "win now" move. He's unquestionably your best prospect and you have significant goalie problems so throwing him into the mix is "win now". If he "wins now" mission accomplished. If not, he's young. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

It also, too, puts those important wallets butts in seats.

 

On the draft note, there are five other teams with as bad or worse record than the Flyers. Even looking at a "Top Five" draft, that's not a guarantee. On the flip side, they only have to pass four teams to get into the playoffs, none of whom (NYI, PIT, NYR, CAR) are really blowing anybody's doors off at this point.

 

Ironically, I kinda think if Hextall had replaced Hakstol with Gordon then you may have gotten better looks at the "inside the organization" options than Hakstol was willing to explore. Certainly it seems Gordon has a higher view of Sanheim and may have more insight into other Phormer Phantoms (as well as their respect).

 

All that said, I firmly expect ol' Fletch to be making some moves as we approach the deadline.

 

20 hours ago, brelic said:

Something stinks, and I'm just really disillusioned with the organization's management right now.  

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

I saw a leak somewhere that Hextall told Scott, "*&$% off, you're not a hockey guy," one too many times. 

 

I'm not joking, I just can't remember where I saw it.

I recall that.  Now that I can absolutely believe.

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1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

To me it was the past four years that  seemed out of character of Homer.  Sadly,   None of what’s happened since Hextall was fired seems out of character with the Homer we knew from 2007-2014. 

He probably didn't meddle with Hextall because Scott wasn't meddling with Homer.  Like I said, I don't think Homer takes action on his own unless someone puts him in action.  

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25 minutes ago, radoran said:

From where I sit, they're still looking at being "8 points out of a playoff spot" not "writing off the year."

 

Just for some "reality" check. 

 

The 3rd place team in the Metro has 38 points right now. That puts them on pace for 94 points and a guaranteed spot.

 

The Flyers have 30 points in 32 games (.468 so far).

 

They'd have to go roughly 28-15-8 (.653) the rest of the way to reach 94 points. 

 

Of course, it all depends on how other teams play. 

 

After starting last season 8-11-7 (.442), they went 34-15-7 (.669).

 

So, you know, I'm saying there's a chance. 

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20 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Just for some "reality" check. 

 

The 3rd place team in the Metro has 38 points right now. That puts them on pace for 94 points and a guaranteed spot.

 

The Flyers have 30 points in 32 games (.468 so far).

 

They'd have to go roughly 28-15-8 (.653) the rest of the way to reach 94 points. 

 

Of course, it all depends on how other teams play. 

 

After starting last season 8-11-7 (.442), they went 34-15-7 (.669).

 

So, you know, I'm saying there's a chance. 

 

I'm really looking forward to trading some talent for 4-5 games of playoff hockey!

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1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

 

I saw a leak somewhere that Hextall told Scott, "*&$% off, you're not a hockey guy," one too many times. 

 

I'm not joking, I just can't remember where I saw it.

 

He should have Chelios whacked him with a stick.

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55 minutes ago, brelic said:

So, you know, I'm saying there's a chance. 

 

Oh, I hear you...

 

image.png

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37 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I'm really looking forward to trading some talent for 4-5 games of playoff hockey!

 

I have an organization for you.

 

image.png

 

I can't find their board, but I'm betting Clarke is President and Homer is EVP.

 

😎

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