CreaseAndAssist Posted December 29, 2018 Author Share Posted December 29, 2018 To address an earlier question. By what I've seen and heard this is an "ok" draft class with a few decent jewels near the top of the draft. Those players will not be Connor McDavid generational talent type of players. I normally wait until after the WJC's to start taking a look at the draft classes because how they start to move in the rankings after that tournament gives me an idea as to how many pro scouts are evaluating the group. If you see a lot of movement; it can indicate there is a fair amount of uncertainty. There are some decent forwards in this group (Hughes, Kakko, Lavoie, etc) to name a few. But if you want a little entertainment try this link. Tankathon.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClusterChuck Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 19 hours ago, rottenrefs said: Did anyone see Kunin race down ice with a prime opportunity for a shot and he instead passed it over to Parise? Every damn young player on this team for years has conceded opportunity after opportunity to be a breakout player and instead dumped the puck off to 'who they're supposed to dump the puck off to.' Irony? Can I say IRONY?? This part stuck out for me since the most recent tweet from Parise pretty much said that they needed to "take the shot" on those rushes. I always thought my wife would cut my hair around this time for the Holidays but really she's doing it so I don't have as much to grab on to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 7 hours ago, sweetshot said: Rant and rave all you want about some of the BS that goes on around this team , but really the bottom line is the Wild never has had and still doesn't have the horses to get it done. They lack a #1 center, a scorer--preferrably a big, good skating winger who can score(the most coveted NHL player IMO), and enough players that are willing to mix it up--get onto the areas on the ice where goals are to be had. You could say the Wild lacks grit. Or enough gritty players. Some guys are ok in this regard. And as a group, their defensemen are too small. Spurgeon's a pretty good player, but he lacks the size(strength?) to knock anybody off the puck, IMO a necessary skill for a defenseman. The Wild have been this way for several seasons and IMO the makeup of this team is the reason they haven't had postseason success. Not because of Mikko Koivu. People can point out a dozen different 'if' situations but in a nutshell it boils down to no one getting more attention than Mikko; from an ownership to player perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, ClusterChuck said: This part stuck out for me since the most recent tweet from Parise pretty much said that they needed to "take the shot" on those rushes. I always thought my wife would cut my hair around this time for the Holidays but really she's doing it so I don't have as much to grab on to. Let the younger players be awestruck by big name players on other teams rosters, but being awestruck by your own teammates is something learned in the locker room and carried onto the ice. Why are they fearing the ranks within their own club is why it's 'in the water' here in Minnesota. If the younger players aren't receiving the freedom to express themselves comfortably in the locker room they're never going to gain it on the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 23 minutes ago, ClusterChuck said: This part stuck out for me since the most recent tweet from Parise pretty much said that they needed to "take the shot" on those rushes. I always thought my wife would cut my hair around this time for the Holidays but really she's doing it so I don't have as much to grab on to. I just had to chirp in to say yours is the best screen name EVER. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetshot Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 1 hour ago, rottenrefs said: People can point out a dozen different 'if' situations but in a nutshell it boils down to no one getting more attention than Mikko; from an ownership to player perspective. Are you saying the Wild didn't address certain deficiencies they had(have) because they didn't want to bring in a player that was better than Koivu because that player might diminish Koivu's status on the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 1 minute ago, sweetshot said: Are you saying the Wild didn't address certain deficiencies they had(have) because they didn't want to bring in a player that was better than Koivu because that player might diminish Koivu's status on the team? Yes and no. What I'm saying is Koivu is the bar. Players with a dream to be better than him are quickly put in their place. Restricted, handcuffed, sat on the bench, sent back and forth to Iowa 6 times if necessary. The Wild's mantra could be, There shall be no greater player on this team than the great faceoff expert (yellow bellied, scared sh!tless entering the zone, spineless captain who lets everyone hang out to dry as he skates with his back to them as they get the crap beat out of them by the competition) superstar in his owners mind... Need I go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetshot Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 9 hours ago, rottenrefs said: Yes and no. What I'm saying is Koivu is the bar. Players with a dream to be better than him are quickly put in their place. Restricted, handcuffed, sat on the bench, sent back and forth to Iowa 6 times if necessary. The Wild's mantra could be, There shall be no greater player on this team than the great faceoff expert (yellow bellied, scared sh!tless entering the zone, spineless captain who lets everyone hang out to dry as he skates with his back to them as they get the crap beat out of them by the competition) superstar in his owners mind... Need I go on? I've tried but I just can't buy into the whole Mikko thing. It just doesn't make sense--why would CL do this? I don't see a logical reason behind it and I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But at any rate, RR, if what you say is true, we are going to suck at least as long as Mikko is around and probably as long as CL owns the team. And he now considers the Wild as being a viable business to be kept as a family investment. Great. I'm going to move on to another team--the Wild could never replace my beloved North Stars anyway. I kind of like what the Sabres have started... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 2 hours ago, sweetshot said: I've tried but I just can't buy into the whole Mikko thing. It just doesn't make sense--why would CL do this? I don't see a logical reason behind it and I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But at any rate, RR, if what you say is true, we are going to suck at least as long as Mikko is around and probably as long as CL owns the team. And he now considers the Wild as being a viable business to be kept as a family investment. Great. I'm going to move on to another team--the Wild could never replace my beloved North Stars anyway. I kind of like what the Sabres have started... I'm not into conspiracies either but each and every curious occurrence with this team has been eliminated. Fletcher hiring Richards (and he lost the team.) Bad signings for big dollars, Heatley, Vanek, Backstrom extension, Koivu extension, Lemaire leaving the moment there's a sniff Dumpster Doug was getting canned (team moving in a new more offensive direction) that really hasn't panned out due to not acquiring one single player to barely even fill the shoes of Gaborik, Yeo, line changes, favoring veteran players absolutely not contributing while throwing any young talent under the bus, Parise & Suter hiring Adam Oates (nothing was ever uttered about it regarding their actions undermining the head coach (no punishment), giving poor producing players valuable (extra) ice time... Every new player acquired gets paired with Koivu... Not for long. Every single probable 'cancer in the room' has supposedly been removed from the team, but year in and year out the exact same sh!t continues. Absurd 'scrambled egg' line changes occur every time certain line combinations create great results. There was a time I believed Yeo was behind it, but not after; Fletcher did nothing about those insane moves. It's continued to occur with Boudreau and we all know he never gave veterans favor before. Long before Boudreau came into the picture I labeled Chuck Fletcher as the cause. Shortly thereafter I pegged Leipold for allowing the circus act to continue by letting the inmates run the asylum. Again, it still continued. Now with Fenton it's still going on. Tweaks... Same old sh!t different day. There is only one player who was here before Leipold bought the team and that's Mikko Koivu, you know, the one Fletcher extended another absurd contract with. As much as Fletcher was trying to pinch pennies he certainly didn't hold back on Koivu again. The only common denominator in all this aside from Koivu is Leipold. Literally, there is no one else to take aim at in this whole entire organization other than those two. Everyone else has been fired or moved. Darby? Mason? They've been here awhile as holdovers but they aren't in any power position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClusterChuck Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 9 hours ago, rottenrefs said: Bad signings for big dollars, Heatley, Vanek, Backstrom extension, Koivu extension, Lemaire leaving the moment there's a sniff Dumpster Doug was getting canned (team moving in a new more offensive direction) that really hasn't panned out due to not acquiring one single player to barely even fill the shoes of Gaborik, Yeo, line changes, favoring veteran players absolutely not contributing while throwing any young talent under the bus, Parise & Suter hiring Adam Oates (nothing was ever uttered about it regarding their actions undermining the head coach (no punishment), giving poor producing players valuable (extra) ice time... This should be the Wikipedia answer to History of Minn Wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 @ClusterChuck sadly though the list just goes on. Most of those are just things we're aware of. If we're aware of those things, just imagine the things we never hear about. - Why really, did Josh Harding lose it and break his hand? Why did Fletcher sign so many rough and tumble players (with grit) and not allow Yeo to play them? Oh sure, he gave them ice time the first night they wore a new Wild jersey (and of course got into a fight), but beyond that they were mold down the drain and never used. Not that I'm all behind putting tough guys out there to just to knock heads, but why on earth were they signed in the first place? Boudreau has gone through the same thing but to a slight lessor degree. Why have assistant coaches left or been shown the door? Why did Russo go from being a sissy ball polishing writer to one who hinted at ripples behind the scene? What were those ripples (exactly?) and though he made it somewhat clear there was some sort of divide in the locker room... It essentially stopped there so he wouldn't lose access to the players, coaches and staff. When a young player nets his first goal they're always brought right in front of the camera during intermissions. Or, whenever most any player pots a goal they get camera time. Why then, when the team craps the boat are 'red shirt' ( = expendable) type players shoved in front of the camera and the 'leaders of the team' not brought out in front of the camera and interviewed? On other teams it's like their team Captain can't wait to get in front of the camera to chew some ass (golly, that works and it's always been really motivational too, and very effective.) Some might say it's because those 'leader' players are in the locker room chewing ass. So someone explain to me why then when they come back out for the next period half the time the team looks even worse? How can an entire team play poorly for half a month, they can't even buy a goal, then against a top rated team they find a way to come away with a win? Why did Yeo never hold his 'core leaders' accountable? Why has Boudreau seemingly act the same way? Both have come out and been open about they're frustrations with the team when it's justly deserved... But no matter what they've done to try igniting spark, it seems nothing they can say or do influences the team to any degree. That right there isn't even a shock anymore; and that in itself for 6 plus years has been very alarming. Yet nothing has been done to rectify their position giving them the power or freedom to correct it. Again, very alarming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClusterChuck Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 @rottenrefs That's a lot of "Why's" and all legitimate. I remember about Harding thinking Why the hell would you do that !?! ...Was it a beef with another player, The MS or now what you propose. Given people's love for drama, Your list would be great for one of those 'behind the scenes' or 'In the locker room' shows they do on NHL teams. But I don't think the NHL would want to touch this one. With all this going on in your head it makes me wonder if you watch the game from a certain type of couch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starofthenorth Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 20 hours ago, rottenrefs said: @ClusterChuck Why really, did Josh Harding lose it and break his hand? I thought I remembered him breaking his foot when he kicked the wall after an argument with the other goaltender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 1 hour ago, ClusterChuck said: @rottenrefs That's a lot of "Why's" and all legitimate. I remember about Harding thinking Why the hell would you do that !?! ...Was it a beef with another player, The MS or now what you propose. Given people's love for drama, Your list would be great for one of those 'behind the scenes' or 'In the locker room' shows they do on NHL teams. But I don't think the NHL would want to touch this one. With all this going on in your head it makes me wonder if you watch the game from a certain type of couch. Ugh, yes... He broke his foot not his hand by kicking a wall. Thereafter they gave Keumper a contract. Harding was no doubt angry at another player: Quote https://www.twincities.com/2014/11/05/wild-josh-harding-starts-tedious-road-back-from-broken-foot/ Harding suffered a broken foot in an altercation with a teammate before the start of training camp in September. I watch games from a certain type couch? Funny. No, I watch games from either a regular television screen sitting in various locations on dinner outings or at home via hulu or whatever other source for streams. Though I have a penchant for ciphering though interviews or articles where they bring up obvious difficulties or excuses, often there's hints or suggestions provided either by the players themselves or various media sources hinting at key situational train-wreck type collapses... All I do is piece them together just like others do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Unlike others though, I follow the food-chain of events such as Russo writing a juicy article and never actually naming specific players or staff; amidst watching closely how timely specific events take place. What rumors in recent years with the club were wrong? Not too many when you think about it. Often some of the fans here have better information on the team than what reporters report on. Later, those bits of information have almost always rose to the top and become more clear (and accurate.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confrontational Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 From a hockey perspective - watching the Knights is such a breath of fresh air. Watched another Wild game (against Chicago) the other day - and I found myself thinking "wtf was that?!?" too many times. Zach looked to be one of the few who wanted to play. I know it isn't easy to leave a team you've watched your whole life (in my case I did it for 10 years even after I left MN) - but, last year was enough - and throughout the year I started watching more and more of Vegas because of Haula and Tuch - fast transitions - Reeves there to make sure people stay calm - etc. I just read parts of this thread and hadn't realized that I haven't bitched at all with the Knights. Wonder if at year 15 of the Knights if a core veteran crew will screw that team up...? Anyways, Ref, chuckled when I saw "whattya mean Mikko controls things!?!" - and all the explaining has to start all over... Must get tiring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 20 minutes ago, Confrontational said: Anyways, Ref, chuckled when I saw "whattya mean Mikko controls things!?!" - and all the explaining has to start all over... Must get tiring... I've fathered three girls (and a step dad to another from the time she was 4, her being the oldest) and over the years while I've gained more patience, explaining the same thing over to adults is a sh!tload harder because they aren't half as bright. I get called a polly-anna, a whiner, a complainer... A hater... But in reality those who remain clueless slinging that kind of mud need to take a step back and look in the mirror. The reflections I see of the Wild seem to repeat themselves from one year to the next. It's the same old crap wrapped in a clean 'bag' each year and the results of which just keep getting fogged over. Me? I get a bit older, see the same impressions I had some 40 years ago (including the North Stars and other various MN pro sports teams) yet now the story lines receive more attention (from me) and the hope just keeps getting thinner, much like my hair. I've been on the end of being put in my place by others who used to scold me, saying they know what it takes to win the big one (yeah, amateur sports of course) but they've never won anything - let alone anything big. So I've gone out of my way to distance myself from them to play on my own teams, coach teams, manage teams in several different type sporting activities competing against them in their same league(s) and each time went far beyond anything they ever did. And I did it with throwaway players or participants that weren't good enough to meet their 'requirements.' Honestly, I take it with a grain of salt and they don't need to kiss my ass. They don't sit and chew the fat with me anymore but we still say Hi to each other, although one can see it in their eyes they have an entirely different kind of respect for me. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardonshky Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 On 12/29/2018 at 2:11 AM, sweetshot said: And as a group, their defensemen are too small. Spurgeon's a pretty good player, but he lacks the size(strength?) to knock anybody off the puck, IMO a necessary skill for a defenseman. This is becoming an antiquated view of defensemen. I’m not saying a d corps can/should be small, but the game is becoming more and more about speed. A lot of people want to focus on fast skaters when they talk about speed, but speed starts with transitions. Teams need what Spurgy has more than size. They’ll let you have your Kuba, Foster, Skoula.., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetshot Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 On 12/31/2018 at 4:13 PM, Confrontational said: I just read parts of this thread and hadn't realized that I haven't bitched at all with the Knights. Wonder if at year 15 of the Knights if a core veteran crew will screw that team up...? Of course you haven't bitched about the Knights--a first year team making a huge SC run, what's there to bitch about?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetshot Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 12 hours ago, Bardonshky said: This is becoming an antiquated view of defensemen. I’m not saying a d corps can/should be small, but the game is becoming more and more about speed. A lot of people want to focus on fast skaters when they talk about speed, but speed starts with transitions. Teams need what Spurgy has more than size. They’ll let you have your Kuba, Foster, Skoula.., IMO being able to knock a guy off the puck will always be part of a dmans responsibiliy. You don't need to be 6'4" 250, and I wouldn't necessarily sacrifice speed for size. I probably should have said as a whole the Wilds defense isn't physical enough and Spurgeon exemplifies this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardonshky Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 2 hours ago, sweetshot said: IMO being able to knock a guy off the puck will always be part of a dmans responsibiliy. You don't need to be 6'4" 250, and I wouldn't necessarily sacrifice speed for size. I probably should have said as a whole the Wilds defense isn't physical enough and Spurgeon exemplifies this. Don’t believe I implied that’s not a part of the ideal d man’s skill set, but ideal d men are rare. For one, dumps are prevalent these days. That’s a puck race. Playing a line rush physically is risky and you don’t see it much because coaches don’t want D giving up position. So you’re talking about once a team establishes the cycle. I actually think Spurgeon wins the puck more than a lot of those big guys I listed and the bigger guys in this roster. Look up Datsyuk hold off Chara in the corner. Or Crosby holding off nearly anyone. It’s about getting your hips between the player and the puck. That’s about base, not height and weight. Edit: translation, it’s about skating. Do they have to be strong, yes. But slim hockey players can be deceptively strong. It’s the way they train. A breeze blew Granlund off the puck his first year, training earned him a strong base and he comes off the wall with pucks way more since. Edit: I would concede small size exposes D to injury on puck races but I think this is an area Spurgeon is pretty good. But it’s a risk for sure. Then again: Foster. Spurgeon is smart. He’s got middling-to-great special awareness. Lidstrom was smaller than a lot of the forwards he faced, but he could defend the big guys and Kane. Karlsson is dwarves by today’s power forwards. I don’t think he’s worried. Guys like Crosby WANT him skating backward on D. I don’t think he’s afraid of a puck race with Wheeler, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confrontational Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 On 1/5/2019 at 6:28 AM, sweetshot said: Of course you haven't bitched about the Knights--a first year team making a huge SC run, what's there to bitch about?? This is year #2 for them - I was referring to this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetshot Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Confrontational said: This is year #2 for them - I was referring to this year... T-1st in the West. Looks like they may be going down the same path this season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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