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It's Time for the Retrofit


Howie58

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Well since this team is hell bent on playing now and crushing draft dreams can we get some more of these kids some playing time...

 

 

...Let's get Myers some time in the NHL so you can see where he is at....why wait?

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34 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Well since this team is hell bent on playing now and crushing draft dreams can we get some more of these kids some playing time...

 

 

...Let's get Myers some time in the NHL so you can see where he is at....why wait?

 

i dont think we are ever going to win a cup because we are always passing on top talent every year, it's so frustrating to see the pens and capitals win cups with their franchise players, i just dont understand why the flyers wont do it, it just seems like they want to be one and done in the playoffs for the next 40 years and that's good enough for the fans, it seems like they lost their championship hunger.

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Ok so give the kid a look...who knows maybe he is the eventual partner Provorov needs...

 

 

Big defenseman Phil Myers making impression on Flyers GM

Big defenseman Phil Myers making impression on Flyers GM

 

http://www.philly.com/flyers/flyers-chuck-fletcher-phil-myers-20190117.html

 

Why not if they are going to pretend to care now....and ruin a draft pick let him and maybe even Vorobyev play...3rd center needs answering for next year....why wait??

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This is 100% not intended to offend any of the players on the current rosters of the Flyers and Phantoms, nor any of the drafted prospects, but there is nothing even remotely close to bringing a cup to Philly. This fantasy that the young prospects are going to bring it is misguided. And 2 game winning streaks only hurt, not help. Has Fletcher already been given the mediocrity recipe? Teams on the playoff bubble are looking to make moves and probably overpay. First in usually wins, blow it up Mr Fletcher. You currently have nothing to lose.

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On 1/14/2019 at 3:58 PM, OccamsRazor said:

Now if they could just fix the PP.

I really don't like the idea of having five forwards on the first unit.  If they don't want Ghost or Provorov out there right now, put Sanheim out there. 

 

But really, if you're not going to play Ghost on the PP (I know he's been on the 2nd unit), why are you playing him at all? 

 

Hell, let's see what Myers can do. 

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2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I really don't like the idea of having five forwards on the first unit.  If they don't want Ghost or Provorov out there right now, put Sanheim out there. 

 

But really, if you're not going to play Ghost on the PP (I know he's been on the 2nd unit), why are you playing him at all? 

 

Hell, let's see what Myers can do. 

 

With Sanheim and Myers it is why I suggested trading Ghost on the Flyers Bruins game thread...yeah not the best play for it I guess but it is where Brel and I discussed it.

 

I wonder if you could package Jake and Ghost for a nice package return...

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16 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I really don't like the idea of having five forwards on the first unit.  If they don't want Ghost or Provorov out there right now, put Sanheim out there. 

 

But really, if you're not going to play Ghost on the PP (I know he's been on the 2nd unit), why are you playing him at all? 

 

Hell, let's see what Myers can do. 

 

I don't like it either. I said in the Minny thread that against a better PK team, they would get exposed, and last night they gave up several odd man rushes the other way. 

 

I agree - put Sanheim on PP1, that's what I said in the Minny thread too lol (or maybe retrofit thread??). Are you trolling me, bro?? ;)

 

Have Ghost on PP2.

 

Provorov shouldn't be near any kind of PP this year. 

 

Personally, I don't trade Ghost because I think it's just an off year for him. He's on a very reasonable contract, and when he's on his game, he's a game breaker. We've seen it in two of his three seasons, with his fourth one (this one) being a down year. If it was just Ghost playing like this, it might say more about him as a player, but when I see the rest of the team playing like a hot mess, it kind of puts things into perspective.

 

 

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3 hours ago, flyer4ever said:

This is 100% not intended to offend any of the players on the current rosters of the Flyers and Phantoms, nor any of the drafted prospects, but there is nothing even remotely close to bringing a cup to Philly. This fantasy that the young prospects are going to bring it is misguided. And 2 game winning streaks only hurt, not help. Has Fletcher already been given the mediocrity recipe? Teams on the playoff bubble are looking to make moves and probably overpay. First in usually wins, blow it up Mr Fletcher. You currently have nothing to lose.

 

i dont get it either, what's the purpose of holding on this vets in a lost year? even if he cant get rid of them, just bury them in the ahl and let the kids play to develop chemistry, get rid of the vets at the TL, so we have cap space, bring in panarin, sign a goalie, sign q and this team will be contenders next year.

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On 1/11/2019 at 12:55 PM, radoran said:

 

FWIW, I think he was desperate to get The Old Man another Cup before he died. But his overall phillyosophy hasn't changed since the funeral.

 

I could see that and it's admirable in some ways, and the irony is that if Homer had made slightly different moves between 2012-2014, they might have had a better chance of pulling off that miracle for the Old Man.  

 

My guess it was Snider who had no time for the quote unquote antics of Richards, Carter Et Al.

 

But even if Homer wanted to unload them for a walking rebuild in the form of Schenn, Simmer, Jake and Coots, all he had to do was do an even cursory psych eval on Bryz and just be willing to waive or buy out a useless contract rather than trade away Bobrovsky.  

 

They were a lot closer BEFORE Homer traded away JVR, ignored Jagr and Carle and blew his off season on unsignable names like Parise, Weber and Suter. Even if he still signed Bryz, he could have bought him or any other number of players out to keep Bob.  But it was his G.D. pride that refused to see reality.  It was then too far gone for any semblance of reason when it came to signing VLC and MacDonald.  

 

My criticism all these years since hasn't been that Homer went for the rebuild or went for the win now philosophy.  It's that he didn't do either and he did both all at once.  If he'd just picked a direction to go in and stayed that course, things wouldn't have gotten to where they did.  He had no compass.  It was insanity.  The Firing of Laviolette should have been a red alert and the league or comcast at least should probably have stepped in because there was literally no sane explanation for his actions at that point.  Instead they let Lukko quit so he could go die and promoted Homer.  

 

God, what a depressing time.

 

This is why it kills me to read articles where Fletcher is basically saying the same things as Hextall... maybe we'll trade Simmer, maybe we won't... Don't want to give up on the kids yet... need a few pieces...  free agency coming...  

 

Hextall made mistakes, to be sure but the only one I'm mad at him for is not firing Hakstol sooner.  The end of either of the last two seasons should have been sufficient information to let him know that Hak had to go and wasn't going to get them to the next level.  

 

I could give a rip about Weise or Grabner and anyone who uses those as good reasons to fire Hextall is just deluding himself.

Anyone who uses the goalies as a good reason simply wasn't paying attention for two years since the Vegas draft requirements were imposed.  

 

The reason to fire Hextall was Hakstol... and it really seems from what we've learned since that if Homer had just been a little more open and less prideful and communicated this to Hextall, a lot of franchise wide confusion could have been avoided and the fan base would now likely be less alienated.  

 

Either Homer didn't think he needed to be a manager and believes that all a boss does is fire and hire people, or Homer simply didn't see that Hakstol was the problem.

 

Either way, that's a damn pathetic shame.  

 

My only hope now is that Fletcher isn't a complete moron and that Homer and Scott will be forced to listen when a second GM in a row says, "we're just not there yet... give it some more time in the oven."

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, briere48 said:

 

i dont get it either, what's the purpose of holding on this vets in a lost year? even if he cant get rid of them, just bury them in the ahl and let the kids play to develop chemistry, get rid of the vets at the TL, so we have cap space, bring in panarin, sign a goalie, sign q and this team will be contenders next year.

 

That depends on what Vets your'e talking about. 

 

If you mean Lehtera and Weise and MacDonald for instance, there is a limit to the number of veteran players you can bury in the AHL.  The Phantoms are currently at that limit if Weise goes there.  So names like Lehtera, Weise, MacDonald, Raffl, Folin... they literally can't go to the AHL.  

 

IF you mean guys like Simmer and... well no actually, Simmer is the only one in this category... the simple fact of the matter is that Fletcher (and Hextall before him) is weighing his options as to whether it's better to take late first round picks and mediocre prospects for Simmer now or just resign him to an extension.

 

The question is essentially is there anyone better than him in UFA coming up this summer?  Can you sign that person?  Can you trade Simmer and get some picks and prospects AND sign that person?  

 

Personally, if it's me, it's between Simmer and Panarin this summer.  I'd take Panarin and I'd pay handsomely for him.  I don't think you can afford both.  If I can get anything remotely promising on Defense and a decent set of picks for Wayne, I do it... as much for Wayne as any other reason.  Worst comes to worse, you know what his agents want and you could always try to resign him.  But it it's me, I'd go all in on Panarin instead.

 

Wayne's a great locker room, heart and soul guy and we all love him, me included.  But this team's heart needs defibrillation.  It needs a new coach with clear direction and the ability to make guys believe in themselves first and foremost, but if you can add a few guys who believe in themselves already, it might go a long way.  

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6 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Personally, if it's me, it's between Simmer and Panarin this summer.  I'd take Panarin and I'd pay handsomely for him.  I don't think you can afford both.  If I can get anything remotely promising on Defense and a decent set of picks for Wayne, I do it... as much for Wayne as any other reason.  Worst comes to worse, you know what his agents want and you could always try to resign him.  But it it's me, I'd go all in on Panarin instead.

 

If nothing else for the assets you can acquire for Simmonds (regardless of what they are) and the three calendar years you pick up on the player.

 

That said, I think Simmonds comes cheaper and I do wonder what you lose "in the room" in Simmonds and, conversely, lose "in the room" with Panarin (if anything).

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5 hours ago, flyer4ever said:

This is 100% not intended to offend any of the players on the current rosters of the Flyers and Phantoms, nor any of the drafted prospects, but there is nothing even remotely close to bringing a cup to Philly. This fantasy that the young prospects are going to bring it is misguided. And 2 game winning streaks only hurt, not help. Has Fletcher already been given the mediocrity recipe? Teams on the playoff bubble are looking to make moves and probably overpay. First in usually wins, blow it up Mr Fletcher. You currently have nothing to lose.

 

I gotta say, this is a really misguided statement and I disagree with it whole heartedly.  It's easy to think that way because they've simply been miscoached for so long, so I understand. 

 

What we've been seeing isn't a lack of skill however.  It's a lack of execution.  It's a lack of intention often.  They have simply not known what they've been doing for far far too long.  

 

They've been coached poorly.  My big example is Ghost because he's the most glaring.  When he came into the league, Hakstol had the stand out most strikingly skilled D man on the ice bar potentially Karlsson that season.  Ghost might have won the Calder Trophy had he played the whole season.  He was dynamic and no one could do a thing to stop him because they didn't know how to handle him.

 

Now look at him.  He's boring.  Predictable.  Everyone can stop him.  He does the same thing with the puck every time he gets it.  

 

Hakstol was used to coaching semi-skilled players against other barely skilled players.  In college, you can kind of count on your oppostion to be slow and make mistakes.  In the pros, you really can't count on that.  His systems showed it.  His bewilderment at other teams simply being too good was obvious.  

 

He didn't know how to tell good players what to do to beat other good players.  He only knew how to tell mediocre players what to do to beat other mediocre players.  Is it any wonder he loved Raffl, Lehtera, Weise & Hagg so much?  He could understand them because they had extremely low ceilings that he was staring at the fruition of every night.  

 

He didn't understand the NHL.  

Frankly, Berube understood certain things about the NHL much better than Hakstol, but I think things that moved too fast confused him and he ended up coaching them to be out of position most of the time too.

 

The bulk of this team has never been coached by a decent NHL coach who knows what to do with the skills inherent in these guys and how to unlock that skill and turn it into goals.


The crimes in this department committed against Patrick, Konecny, Ghost and Sanheim in particular are LEGION. And it's so bad that I don't know that those guys are going to recover.  I have hope for TK and Patrick.  Ghost, I'm really afraid for.  Sanheim too.  

 

Fact is, for six years, instead of being shown where to go and how to be even more dynamic and bewildering and deadly to their opponents, the Flyers have been slowed down, dulled and blunted by their coaches.  

 

I don't know if it's too late for them or not, but I do firmly believe that if Hakstol had been replaced two years ago, this team... THIS CURRENT LINEUP would have been a goalie away from being a conference final team.  Ironically that goalie is now on the team and making a huge difference, but the team in front of him is in remedial hockey summer school trying to compete against the AP National Honors Society Quiz Bowl whiz kids around the rest of the league.  

 

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

If nothing else for the assets you can acquire for Simmonds (regardless of what they are) and the three calendar years you pick up on the player.

 

That said, I think Simmonds comes cheaper and I do wonder what you lose "in the room" in Simmonds and, conversely, lose "in the room" with Panarin (if anything).

 

 

I'm sorry I don't quite understand the first sentence.

 

As far as what you lose in the room with Simmonds... I know what you're saying and everyone else is saying about this.  

 

I REALLY LIKE HIM.  And I know they're a tight group and he is central to them.

 

However, Nolan Patrick called Dale Weise the best team mate he'd ever had.  There's a certain degree of "that's just what you say" but DALE WEISE.  They need Simmer because he's great in the room, but the team spent four years on emotional roller coaster games, and losing because they had 4 goals scored on them in 10 minutes repeatedly and losing two goal leads repeatedly and giving up tying goals in the last minute repeatedly. 

 

My point is, they're not in the basement because they've been out-competed or out-skilled, or out-classed all year.  They're in the basement because they constantly lost their **** and when they have it, they can't keep it together.  They lose as much as they have because they're JUST NOT THERE for long stretches mentally and emotionally.  

 

I put a huge amount of this on Hakstol and Berube before him to be honest, but at a certain point when a team shows no brain and no heart and no soul, you kinda have to start looking at the guys they call their heart and soul.  Even if you love him and think he embodies what you want in a player.  

 

Maybe they lose something in the room with Panarin, but they gain a TON on the ice in the form of consistency and execution.  Maybe Wayne is just as good with better coaching (He's probably not).  But you know what's even more encouraging to your team mates than locker room presence?  Putting the puck on their sticks when they're open and putting in the net when you're open.  How about someone who makes them actually better when they play instead of someone who makes them feel better when they lose?

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I'm sorry I don't quite understand the first sentence.

 

Panarin is three years younger than Simmonds, so you get the assets from trading Simmonds and a player three years his junior.

 

5 minutes ago, King Knut said:

How about someone who makes them actually better when they play instead of someone who makes them feel better when they lose?

 

This is related to "three years younger" - Panarin is a 30g player (much as Simmonds has been) but chips in 15-20 more assists each year.

 

My primary "in room" concern is a player publicly trying to walk away from the team he's playing for. It's not disqualifying unto itself, but it is worth considering.

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16 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Panarin is three years younger than Simmonds, so you get the assets from trading Simmonds and a player three years his junior.

 

 

This is related to "three years younger" - Panarin is a 30g player (much as Simmonds has been) but chips in 15-20 more assists each year.

 

My primary "in room" concern is a player publicly trying to walk away from the team he's playing for. It's not disqualifying unto itself, but it is worth considering.

 

Ah gotcha.  Yeah that makes sense... and big parts of why I say go all in for him.

 

As far as Panarin making not wanting to be there public...  I mean Keith Primeau refused to sign with Carolina. He all but made it clear hid didn't want to play there.   People said they didn't want him for that reason... and frankly I can't imagine a better guy in the room more committed to winning.  

 

I don't know anything about Panarin personally or his character, but I don't think not wanting to be someplace is disqualifying.  NO ONE wants to be in Columbus.  It must really be horrible!  Everyone trashed Carter's attitude for not wanting to be there and playing like crap for them, but then he took off and kicked butt as soon as he got to LA, being a integral part of both cup teams and to this day being a team leader (for what it's worth anymore).

 

I think it's possible Columbus is just a crappy place to play professional hockey.  And remember... Panarin was coming from DETROIT so it's not just the town.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, briere48 said:

 

i dont get it either, what's the purpose of holding on this vets in a lost year? even if he cant get rid of them, just bury them in the ahl and let the kids play to develop chemistry, get rid of the vets at the TL, so we have cap space, bring in panarin, sign a goalie, sign q and this team will be contenders next year.

 

:skeptic:           :box:

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1 hour ago, King Knut said:

I think it's possible Columbus is just a crappy place to play professional hockey.  And remember... Panarin was coming from DETROIT so it's not just the town.  

 

You spelled "Chicago" wrong 🤗

 

I think the issue is that it is Columbus freaking Ohio. If you're Crater coming from Philadelphia with a beach house in Sea Isle, I can see where Columbus might be the dark side of the moon. Then going to LA and having access to the South Bay might just change the way you're thinking...

 

Likewise Panarin from Chicago.

 

And, for that matter, Primeau from Carolina.

 

Again, not disqualifying, but something to consider.

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7 hours ago, flyer4ever said:

but there is nothing even remotely close to bringing a cup to Philly.

 

That is what they said about the 2016 Philadelphia Eagles too. 

 

They did do something significant the following season no one said could ever happen.

 

Just can't remember what it was....

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On 1/16/2019 at 5:51 PM, vis said:

I thought something was up with Sandstrom?  Disappointing year(s)?  Or maybe an injury?

 

No he is having a decent year he was loaned to HV71 and has played in 12 games posting a 2.17 gaa and a 909%.

 

So no i would not count it as a disappointing season and hadn't read that anywhere.

 

He should get the Lion's share of the minutes on the Phantoms next and who knows he plays well he could quickly be Hart's backup.

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3 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Ah gotcha.  Yeah that makes sense... and big parts of why I say go all in for him.

 

As far as Panarin making not wanting to be there public...  I mean Keith Primeau refused to sign with Carolina. He all but made it clear hid didn't want to play there.   People said they didn't want him for that reason... and frankly I can't imagine a better guy in the room more committed to winning.  

 

I don't know anything about Panarin personally or his character, but I don't think not wanting to be someplace is disqualifying.  NO ONE wants to be in Columbus.  It must really be horrible!  Everyone trashed Carter's attitude for not wanting to be there and playing like crap for them, but then he took off and kicked butt as soon as he got to LA, being a integral part of both cup teams and to this day being a team leader (for what it's worth anymore).

 

I think it's possible Columbus is just a crappy place to play professional hockey.  

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, radoran said:

 

You spelled "Chicago" wrong 🤗

 

I think the issue is that it is Columbus freaking Ohio. If you're Crater coming from Philadelphia with a beach house in Sea Isle, I can see where Columbus might be the dark side of the moon. Then going to LA and having access to the South Bay might just change the way you're thinking...

 

Likewise Panarin from Chicago.

 

And, for that matter, Primeau from Carolina.

 

Again, not disqualifying, but something to consider.

 

Ugh.  Flu meds I guess. Time to go to bed. 

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42 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No he is having a decent year he was loaned to HV71 and has played in 12 games posting a 2.17 gaa and a 909%.

 

So no i would not count it as a disappointing season and hadn't read that anywhere.

 

He should get the Lion's share of the minutes on the Phantoms next and who knows he plays well he could quickly be Hart's backup.

 

Elliott, Neuvy and maybe Lyon or Stolie all gone, they could use him in LV. 

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56 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Elliott, Neuvy and maybe Lyon or Stolie all gone, they could use him in LV. 

 

Well Lyon is under contract next year so he could be Hart's backup.

 

I hope they don't go into next year as Lyon as the backup to Hart I want a more seasoned vet in that role.

 

Lyon maybe fine in LV next with a tandem of Sandstrom and him.

 

Also Hextall signed Lyon to that deal which means Fletcher could decide to jettison him too either at the deadline or offseason.

 

With him leading the Phantoms and them shorthanded in goal right now I see him finishing the year in LV.

 

And who knows Homer drafted Stolie and Ron signed Lyon so who knows which way they go.

 

Could trade Lyon and sign Stolie to play in LV with Felix.

 

Then go find another guy to back Hart up.

 

Time to cut bait with Elliott and Neuvy.

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3 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Elliott, Neuvy and maybe Lyon or Stolie all gone, they could use him in LV. 

 

We will find out soon Stolie was activated off IR so he will will be heading to LV for the rehab assignment.

 

He can stay up to 14 days.

 

After that I guess he will be Hart's backup and McKenna will be waived.

 

However a lot can change between now and then.

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