×
Jump to content

Ducks Hockey Forum Coyotes Hockey Forum Bruins Hockey Forum Sabres Hockey Forum Flames Hockey Forum Hurricanes Hockey Forum Blackhawks Hockey Forum Avalanche Hockey Forum Blue Jackets Hockey Forum Stars Hockey Forum Red Wings Jackets Hockey Forum Oilers Hockey Forum Panthers Hockey Forum Kings Hockey Forum Wild Hockey Forum Canadiens Hockey Forum Predators Hockey Forum Devils Hockey Forum Islanders Hockey Forum Rangers Hockey Forum Senators Hockey Forum Flyers Hockey Forum Penguins Hockey Forum Sharks Hockey Forum Blues Hockey Forum Lightning Hockey Forum Maple Leafs Hockey Forum Canucks Hockey Forum Golden Knights Hockey Forum Capitals Hockey Forum Jets Hockey Forum

News Ticker
  • News Around the NHL
pilldoc

2019 NHL Entry Draft - Flyers Edition

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Hmm, forgot about the actual draft rankings. If Vilardi was #3, then maybe Hextall drafts him?

 

Was Heiskanen #4?

 

It was: Hischier, Patrick, Heiskanen, Makar, Pettersson. Vilardi was taken 11th.

Edited by elmatus
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, elmatus said:

 

It was: Hischier, Patrick, Heiskanen, Makar, Pettersson. Vilardi was taken 11th.

 

That was the actual draft, right?


I meant the final rankings pre-draft.

 

Just found them - 

Hidden Content

    Give reaction or reply to this topic to see the hidden content.

 

According to that, the NHL Draft Final Rankings were

 

Patrick

Hischier

Heiskanen

Mittelstadt

Makar

Glass

Vilardi

Pettersson

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, brelic said:

Was Heiskanen #4?

 

yeah ... I think so ....... he might have been #3 .....

 

EDIT: Nevermind .... @elmatus answered the question above ..thanks! :)

Edited by pilldoc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, vis said:

Would you trade JVR (i.e., his contract) for Luke Schenn (i.e., his contract) right now?

 

Not gonna lie...I'd be pretty tempted.

 

I dont have a clue about JvR.   He was hurt and this team is a disaster.   His line mates are not helping the matter either.   I think JvR is what he is - a big body that can score in front of the net and has great hands.   Never been a huge fan but he puts up goals like he did in Tronno I can live with him.  

 

Or, if he were traded I wouldn't lose sleep :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ISS Final Rankings June 2017  Actual Draft Order
1 Patrick, Nolan C 1 Nico Hischier (C)
2 Hischier, Nico C 2 Nolan Patrick (C)
3 Vilardi, Gabe C 3 Miro Heiskanen (D)
4 Heiskanen, Miro D 4 Cale Makar (D)
5 Tippett, Owen RW 5 Elias Pettersson (C)
6 Glass, Cody C 6 Cody Glass (C)
7 Mittelstadt, Casey C 7 Lias Andersson (C)
8 Liljegren, Timothy D 8 Casey Mittelstadt (C)
9 Makar, Cale D 9 Michael Rasmussen (C)
10 Rasmussen, Michael C 10 Owen Tippett (RW)
11 Nick Suzuki   11 Gabriel Vilardi (C)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, pilldoc said:
ISS Final Rankings June 2017  Actual Draft Order
1 Patrick, Nolan C 1 Nico Hischier (C)
2 Hischier, Nico C 2 Nolan Patrick (C)
3 Vilardi, Gabe C 3 Miro Heiskanen (D)
4 Heiskanen, Miro D 4 Cale Makar (D)
5 Tippett, Owen RW 5 Elias Pettersson (C)
6 Glass, Cody C 6 Cody Glass (C)
7 Mittelstadt, Casey C 7 Lias Andersson (C)
8 Liljegren, Timothy D 8 Casey Mittelstadt (C)
9 Makar, Cale D 9 Michael Rasmussen (C)
10 Rasmussen, Michael C 10 Owen Tippett (RW)
11 Nick Suzuki   11 Gabriel Vilardi (C)

If I recall, the knock on Vilardi was speed/skating.

 

I don't know if there was a clear #3.

 

Props to the Canucks' staff for selecting Pettersson.

Edited by vis
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So getting the thread topic back on topic, I think most of us all agree to some extend that the Flyers need some type of dynamic player.  I think most of us agree that it is too soon to call Patrick a bust, BUT it would have better served him AND the Flyers had he gone back to his junior team after he was drafted. 

 

So that brings us back to the original thought ......  if not Hughes...then who?  My biggest concern about Hughes is 1) his size ..5'10" and 170 lbs and 2) taken from someone's opinion who has seen both players in person ....

 

Although Jack Hughes is a superbly talented stick handler and a very shifty skater, I find that he tries to avoid contact whenever he carries the puck; when he skates and dekes around opposing players, he isn't pushing his way past them so much as he is trying to squeeze his body around them. There is a difference between the two, as one requires precision and no obstacles to slow one down; the other -- active, powerful maneuvering -- is to be elusive, but to be able to push past obstacles. Both players can cut around opponents and drive to the net, but Kakko has a much more powerful frame. Kakko has gained some speed this year, and is impressively agile on his skates. As a stick handler, Hughes is very poised and is always in control, but he is physically weaker on the puck than Kakko; whenever he is clipped by an opposing body, the puck starts to get away from him. Kakko, like Hughes, possesses quick hands, but controls the puck better in traffic, especially along the boards. This is aggressive maneuvering, not passive.

Hughes is a pass-first playmaker with a shot that lacks power.

 

I will admit that I know absolutely nothing when it comes to judging hockey talent in a 17 and 18 year old.  I try to read up on as much information for each player listed above, then I will draw my own conclusions.  (I have no idea if I am right or not but will try to trust others who know more than me). 

 

I am NOT stating Hughes may or may not become an elite player, but from what I am reading above from everyone's comments is that they want the Flyers to draft a "Dynamic" player.  Hughes may or may not fit that bill.  Note... Hughes is a very slick player with a high hockey IQ, but his small frame really worries me.

 

I'm personally leaning towards Kaapo at this point.  Kaapo Kakko is doing very well with  Liiga as a 17-year-old player with 20 points (9G, 11A) in 27 games against Finland's top professional players.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@pilldoc

 

From that write up, it sounds like both are very close in terms of ranking. I don’t know how much debate there is about the #1 prospect for the upcoming draft. 

 

It definitely sounds like we need a Kakko more than a Hughes at this point. If Patrick can become a #1 C, having Kakko on the wing would be a great duo.

 

On the other hand, Hughes/Patrick/Couturier/Frost down the middle sounds pretty good.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, brelic said:

@pilldoc

 

From that write up, it sounds like both are very close in terms of ranking. I don’t know how much debate there is about the #1 prospect for the upcoming draft. 

 

It definitely sounds like we need a Kakko more than a Hughes at this point. If Patrick can become a #1 C, having Kakko on the wing would be a great duo.

 

On the other hand, Hughes/Patrick/Couturier/Frost down the middle sounds pretty good.

 

I'm honestly not sure Patrick is 1C material. I mean, I certainly hope he becomes that, but it seems more likely to me right now that someone else will take that spot by the time he's considered "ready". He's not outplaying Couturier, and Couts isn't really an elite 1C either. I feel like if he was to be a true 1C, we would have seen some flashes of that already. We really haven't. We haven't seen much of anything from him in fact. We've seen enough to say he's probably an NHL level player, and that's about it.

 

As far as Hughes vs Kakko vs whoever, this feels like a wash to me. As of this moment, it seems largely certain that Hughes will go no.1. Of course, we've mentioned before that getting the no.1 pick requires substantial luck above all else (

Hidden Content

    Give reaction or reply to this topic to see the hidden content.
). This is a lot like the Hischier/Patrick debate. At the end of the day, we'll pick whoever we end up with. Chances are firmly against that being Hughes. If Kakko is no.2, chances aren't great there either.

 

If we extend our look to players who may be in the 1-5 range, and focus most especially on those who might be 3-5, that would make much more sense. Put another way, unless the team goes on a surprising tear, chances are very good we'll have a pick somewhere between 3-5 in this upcoming draft. Who do we get in that range?

Edited by elmatus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, elmatus said:

chances are very good we'll have a pick somewhere between 3-5 in this upcoming draft. Who do we get in that range?

 

From the ISS Current Rankings I would say 1 of the following 3 players .....

 

image.png.08bffafb314d5af21c4b8ce56c35019b.png                
                 
               

 

 

               
                 
               
Edited by pilldoc
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We will take the Mike Ricci type guy and pass on the Jagr guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hidden Content

    Give reaction or reply to this topic to see the hidden content.

 

Ran about 20 simulations.... Hughes came up on the 1st try and then twice after. Kakko came up about 3-4 times as well.

 

Most common pick for the Flyers was (4th overall) Kirby Dach followed by (3rd overall) Dylan Cozens. 

 

That kind of surprised me, but then I realized that there's a greater chance the Flyers pick outside of the top 3 according to the odds (50.6%).

 

I'm starting to lean towards prying that Colorado pick with a bold move - Voracek + or Giroux.

 

Two top-4 picks would be pretty sweet, even if it sets things back a few years. 

 

I can't imagine Giroux NOT being ok to go to the Avs.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's like 2007 all over again. 

 

So.... I guess Flyers/Hawks in the SCF next year?

 

QUICK! Get Leighton on the phone!

ugh.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, brelic said:

It's like 2007 all over again. 

 

So.... I guess Flyers/Hawks in the SCF next year?

 

QUICK! Get Leighton on the phone!

ugh.JPG

 

I think this draft is better than that one though.

 

God I HOPE it is...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, brelic said:

It's like 2007 all over again. 

 

I would be ok with Kakko at #2 this time unlike i wasn't happy with JVR back in 2007.

 

And look here he is again.

 

Kakko i have seen being compared upside to Laine. And i would like like that.

 

Plus he is already NHL size. 6-2 185. I would be ok with that.

 

Then this offseason if they don't move him during the season maybe they can ship Jake outta here.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FWIW.... I’m leaning towards Kakko myself. Considered a dynamic player, he is doing very well in the top Finnish League....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Most Liked Posts in This Topic

    • 5
      Post
      Far too early to call a "bust". And I don't blame Hextall for making the pick. I blame the organization for slotting him in at 2nd line center pretty much from the moment the lottery ball dropped.   Speaks to the "overvalue the players" mindset from where I sit.
    • 4
      Post
      He has played 107 games actually. Still, I think that's a fair assessment. I also think it's important to be reasonable in our view of him.   I think the challenge is that he was a 2nd overall pick, so it's natural for us to expect above average output in a shorter period of time than a typical NHL player. What is that timeframe though? One season? Two seasons? That's the tough part really.   What can we compare then? Well we can compare his rookie season with other 2nd overall picks over the last number of years.   Patrick: 73gp | 30pts (0.4ppg) Laine: 41gp | 32pts (0.8ppg) Eichel: 40gp | 49pts (1.2ppg) Reinhart: 42gp | 40pts (1.0ppg) Barkov: 40gp | 42pts (1.0ppg) Galchenyuk: 32gp | 21pts (0.7ppg) - Technically Murray was 2nd, but I hopped over him as a dman selection Landeskog: 42gp | 47pts (1.1ppg) Seguin: 43gp | 39pts (0.9ppg) Duchene: 37gp | 42pts (1.1ppg) - 3rd overall, skipped over Hedman at 2nd   What does this tell us? Well, it's notable that Patrick played considerably more games as a rookie than any of those other guys. In some cases, that was due to injury (e.g. Eichel), but the majority just weren't considered ready. Would Patrick compare more favourably if it wasn't for that difference? Maybe.   Looking at straight stats though, it seems pretty clear Patrick is the worst of the bunch listed above. In fact, it's not even very close. Was it a bad draft year? We won't know for a while. Was his value inflated because of his limited ice time during his draft season? It's possible.   Just to turn the knife a little: Pettersson was taken 4th, and so far he's looking like a complete stud in Vancouver. Had Patrick played his draft season, it's conceivable he wouldn't have been taken 2nd overall at all. We may have had Pettersson.   So yeah, I think it's too early to give up on the kid. That said, it seems evident so far that he probably shouldn't have been taken 2nd overall. He may bloom later than some of the others on the list above, but if we're comparing on even footing, all of the guys listed here had considerably better rookie seasons than Patrick.   I think if we had the same player with the same record but had only drafted him later in the round, we'd all be much more okay with it. The challenge in Patrick's case is that he was touted as a 2nd who may even had been 1st overall, but he really hasn't shown the high level of play others in a similar situation have shown over the years.   Just for shits: Couturier: 77gp | 27pts (0.4ppg)   Couts of course was taken 8th overall. He seems like a much better comparable to Patrick so far than other 2nd overall picks. I think Couts is great personally, but I would have expected better had he gone 2nd overall instead of 8th. Will that be how we think of Patrick in some years? It's entirely possible if not plausible. We'll have to wait and see.   All that said, I certainly don't fault Hexy for making the choice. Everyone and their mother was claiming Patrick as the consensus no.2 pick (some were even still saying no.1). He did what any other GM in that position would have done (and likely almost anyone on this board to boot). We were gifted the 2nd overall pick after all. He definitely stands to be better than the player would likely would have gotten in the teens or whatever.
    • 4
      Post
      With our current team I see a bunch of mismatched pieces. I dont see one line that plays well together and has that element of knowing where your linemate is gonna be. I see no fluid passing or playmaking. Is it coaching or is it just that we dont have the right players.  
    • 3
      Post
      @elmatus posted a great summary / analysis of comparable picks.    The one thing I would add in response to your questions is that, yes, he's only 20, but he was about as old as you can get in a qualifying year.    If he had been born 4 days earlier, he'd have been in the 2016 draft with Matthews and Laine.   From the 2016 draft year, of the 1st round picks who have played at least 40 games, here's their PPG breakdown.   Draft pos., Name, PPG   1. Matthews, 0.99 2. Laine, 0.85 6. M. Tkachuk, 0.78 7. Keller, 0.76 3. Dubois, 0.69 14. McAvoy, 0.54 9. Sergachev, 0.44 2. Patrick, 0.38 20. Cholowski, 0.36 27. Howden, 0.35 10. Jost, 0.34 16. Chychrun, 0.30 4. Puljujarvi, 0.27 26. Thompson, 0.22   From the 2017 draft year (40+ games) 5. Pettersson, 1.11 (38 GP) 1. Hischier, 0.68 3. Heiskanen, 0.44 2. Patrick, 0.38 8. Mittelstadt, 0.33 9. Rasmussen, 0.32 21. Chytil, 0.33   So it's definitely 'disappointing' because of the expectations that come with being a #2 overall who had been a consensus #1 until the very end.    Of course, all players have different development paths, and that development is not linear. Some that are doing really well right now may slump and some that are slow out of the gates may take off.   That being said, when looking at Patrick's game, I don't think anyone would use the word 'dynamic' to describe him. I'd say he's more of a meat and potatoes player, not dissimilar to Couturier.   What we need to find is a dynamic player in the upcoming draft, and one that has a scoring bias.
    • 2
      Post
      Hughes is another Giroux, look at the reports on Kakko and Podkolzin, we do not have any players like that at all. We desperately need players with a shoot first mentality who are fearless in front of the net. I’m tired of drafting two way centers and small guys.  I’m all tired of guys that can skate great but constantly miss the net . We need a sniper. We can’t make a mistake in this draft, and get stuck with another Nolan Patrick .
    • 2
      Post
      Hidden Content Give reaction or reply to this topic to see the hidden content.   Ran about 20 simulations.... Hughes came up on the 1st try and then twice after. Kakko came up about 3-4 times as well.   Most common pick for the Flyers was (4th overall) Kirby Dach followed by (3rd overall) Dylan Cozens.    That kind of surprised me, but then I realized that there's a greater chance the Flyers pick outside of the top 3 according to the odds (50.6%).   I'm starting to lean towards prying that Colorado pick with a bold move - Voracek + or Giroux.   Two top-4 picks would be pretty sweet, even if it sets things back a few years.    I can't imagine Giroux NOT being ok to go to the Avs.

About HF.net

 We are an enthusiastic community of HockeyFans who enjoy discussing the NHL and more in our Forums.  Our members may also write their own blogs, converse in chat, post pics in our gallery, join our fantasy hockey leagues and more.  If you are looking for a friendly community to discuss hockey then register today and begin your conversation in our NET.

 

 

Contact Us

 

Recent Topics

Like what we do? Help us keep doing it!
Supporting Members help keep HockeyForums Advertisement Free
×