No apologies necessary. A perennial topic as you say.
I would count myself with you on the bolded part, but always valued plus/minus as a player (i.e. took pride in it) because it was, and still is in my opinion, a decent proxy for whether a player gives a sh!t about the puck when it's in his end or not on his stick or whatever.
Moved topic here to "Around the NHL" as it is something that can apply to any team around the league.
Nothing wrong with the topic itself, though as you said, it HAS been discussed many times over to various degrees.
Still though, as rulesets in the NHL and stat appreciation changes within the NHL (not to mention the use of new type stats), so can opinions on the long standing stats (such as +/-), so it is pretty cool to revisit even long discussed topics at another point i
I tend to find +/- a dubious stat in that while applied to an individual, that individual has almost no control over the stat. For example, a player will get a "+" simply for being on the ice when a goal is scored. He could have nothing to do with the play and not even have touched the puck, yet gets a "+1" if another team mate scores a goal. Same with the minus part. A player could be skating off on a line change and if the opposing team scores a goal while he is trying to get off the ice, he g
You captured the part of TFG’s (thoughtful and thorough) post that piqued my interest as well. The weakness of the stat is it’s relative to so many factors. But I think that makes it a handy flag too. TOI is an example. A crummy +/- makes me want too look at TOI. If I see a guy with a crummy +/- and high TOI, I want to know how are they getting that time. In long chunks? Then when did the goals against happen? Late in the game? Babcock getting on shift length going into Toronto opened my eyes t
Is +/- a perfect stat, no, but I think it's far superior than CF.
+/- means your team scores more or less than the opposition when you're on the ice, CF means your team shot more or less than the opposition when you're on the ice with the bonus of those shots not actually being actual shots on goal.
Carolina has been a CF champion for years but the team hasn't been good for years, shot attempt volumes mean little, actual shots on goal result in goals.
You don't get a plus for scoring on the power-play, and you don't get a minus for giving up a power-play goal. However, if you're on the PP and give up a SHG, that's a minus, and if you're on the PK and are on the ice for a SHG, that's a plus. The idea of plus/minus was always to see who the out-scorers are at even-strength.