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A Take on the Wayne Train


Howie58

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23 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

Trading Jake Voracek would be almost impossible at this point.

 

Why? He may not be the superstar Hexy thought he'd be, but he's still a top six NHL player who scores 55-70pts a season. I think he's not only tradeable, I expect we'd get a pretty decent return for him in fact. It's possible we'd have to retain some salary, but probably not even that much, and maybe none at all depending on who comes knocking.

 

I'm not a fan of his game, but he should absolutely be moveable imo. The question is more whether Fletch wants to move him. I hope he does, but the jury's still out on that one at this point. To me, Voracek is *exactly* the kind of guy you move to a contender and get some solid building pieces in return.

 

McDud, Elliott, Neuvirth -- those guys are unmoveable.

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14 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

Why? He may not be the superstar Hexy thought he'd be, but he's still a top six NHL player who scores 55-70pts a season. I think he's not only tradeable, I expect we'd get a pretty decent return for him in fact. It's possible we'd have to retain some salary, but probably not even that much, and maybe none at all depending on who comes knocking.

 

I'm not a fan of his game, but he should absolutely be moveable imo. The question is more whether Fletch wants to move him. I hope he does, but the jury's still out on that one at this point. To me, Voracek is *exactly* the kind of guy you move to a contender and get some solid building pieces in return.

 

McDud, Elliott, Neuvirth -- those guys are unmoveable.

Highly doubtful.  His contract is overpriced for what he brings to the team.  He's at times lazy.  He never hits anyone.  And is an awful two way player. 

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11 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

Highly doubtful.  His contract is overpriced for what he brings to the team.  He's at times lazy.  He never hits anyone.  And is an awful two way player. 

 

I completely agree with your description of him.  I'll add to that that he is a ridiculously stupid player.

 

But there is likely a GM out there that sees 80+ points and 35 PPP last year and his points this year on a dreadful team and will think "we can work with that!"  I think it's doable with probably retaining some salary.

 

But I think you're still left with "where?"   I don't see a legitimate Cup challenger doing it.  In the last year of his contract or one to go, maybe.  But I don't see a Tampa or Winnipeg or someone with young good players to sign strapping themselves with Dumbo.

 

And I don't see a basement team--even one with cap space--signing up to bring on someone who clearly needs players around him.  Not at that price.   So, it's possible, but I believe the options are extremely limited.  Given the limit of teams that can and that will, I don't think the return will be what people might think. 

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3 hours ago, elmatus said:

McDud, Elliott, Neuvirth -- those guys are unmoveable.

 

Thankfully two of those you can walk away from.........and Mcturd if you want you could buy out.

 

I could live with him as the 7th next year and bring Morin and Myers up.

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There is no way Ottawa wouldn't take Jake Voracek one year removed for an 85 point season.

 

Hasn't missed a game since 2016-17, when is the last time Ottawa has had a forward score 85 points in a season??

 

Karlsson scored 82 in 2015-16.

 

How about 2011-12!!!

 

Jason Spezza....so yeah don't tell me you couldn't trade Jake Voracek to them for Mark Stone...i would need more back since Mark is a UFA at seasons end but if i was allowed to sign him to a new deal i would take less back in addition.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Fuzz said:

Highly doubtful.  His contract is overpriced for what he brings to the team.  He's at times lazy.  He never hits anyone.  And is an awful two way player. 

 

Sounds exactly like Phil Kessel...then he was traded to Pittsburgh.

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I really really hope they don't resign Simmer.

 

His contract could end up being an albatross for the cap situation that has turned around so well for the upcoming future...I want to see the Flyers reap the benefits of Ron's work.

 

Somethings he didn't do so well at but getting them out of cap hell was one thing he did well.

 

Sure the Weise deal didn't help much I won't defend that.

 

But there is a lot of cap room to work with now.

 

I hope they utilize it the right way.

 

Wayne ain't it.

 

Sorry I wish him well.

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58 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I really really hope they don't resign Simmer.

 

His contract could end up being an albatross for the cap situation that has turned around so well for the upcoming future...I want to see the Flyers reap the benefits of Ron's work.

 

Somethings he didn't do so well at but getting them out of cap hell was one thing he did well.

 

Sure the Weise deal didn't help much I won't defend that.

 

But there is a lot of cap room to work with now.

 

I hope they utilize it the right way.

 

Wayne ain't it.

 

Sorry I wish him well.

 

I have agree, as much as I don't like it. He deserves to get paid, and that's completely fair. I just don't want the Flyers to be the team to do it. It's a shame, as you say, because Simmer has been one of the brightest spots on this team over the last bit. I'll be sad to see him go, but go he should.

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1 hour ago, elmatus said:

 

I have agree, as much as I don't like it. He deserves to get paid, and that's completely fair. I just don't want the Flyers to be the team to do it. It's a shame, as you say, because Simmer has been one of the brightest spots on this team over the last bit. I'll be sad to see him go, but go he should.

 

I just hope they send him somewhere out West were of course he will score every time the Flyers play his new team....

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On 1/19/2019 at 11:27 AM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

In terms of Simmonds, my hope is that the Flyers can find a way to get either Dante Fabbro from Nashville or Jack Roslovic from Winnipeg. Montreal really doesn't have anything that stands out.

 

I know Fletcher said he thinks the Flyers will be relatively quiet, but I suspect there's going to be heavy interest in Gudas and with Morin coming back and with Meyers due a call up, he might be the odd man out and I think he could also return a very good package.  We can talk MacTard all we want, but that's going to require parting with something or eating significant salary to have someone take him off the Flyers hands.

 

As for Voracek, I doubt he gets moved. That kind of salary, cap hit and contract length is something that usually takes an off season to move.  

 

The Flyers could be one of the more instrumental players at the trade deadline and if Fletcher plays his cards right, he could definitely reshape the Flyers franchise in a couple of moves.  

 

He can reshape it in one move: hiring the right coach.  

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1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

He can reshape it in one move: hiring the right coach.  

 

Getting a solid NHL-level coaching staff has to be a priority for sure. That said, I think it may be overly simplistic to assume that is the only reason this team has done so poorly. Some measure of the blame goes to the players, and probably more than we care to admit.

 

I think it's a safe bet to assume the core of players Hexy was building around are probably not the right assortment of guys. And by this core, I'm looking at Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Ghost, and Couturier most especially. Over Hexy's tenure, these are the guys who were supposed to anchor the team and bring them at least to the post-season. While we have made it to the playoffs a couple times in that period, it generally felt like a fluke when it happened. The team never seemed like a true contending threat.

 

Is coaching part of it? Yeah, for sure. Hakstol was in over his head. But after all this time, I do think it's more than fair to start looking at the roster as well. I don't think this core has been good enough, and I'm not sure just changing the coach is enough to fix it.

 

Simmonds is getting older and should be moved. Voracek does one thing well and two things poorly every shift. Ghost seems to have lost his PP flair, and he continues to be exposed defensively. Couts is probably not a 1C, and Giroux simply can't be asked to do it all every year.

 

So yeah, get a new coach. It's probably also about time we look at building a new core too. We have some complimentary pieces that overlap, like TK and Patrick. We can also keep Giroux around to guide the team and be the consistent pillar any team needs. Couts still has mileage, but he would be better served as a 2C I think.

 

Aside from an aging Giroux though, those guys are unlikely to be elite franchise stalwarts. It's entirely plausible to suggest we're going to need at least one of those before we can really turn things around. Unless the new coach can strap on skates and play at that level, it seems unlikely to me that just a coaching change will somehow make this team into a force in 2019-20.

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13 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

If the Leafs are willing to package their first and Kapanen for a defenseman, are you sending someone?  First, do we even have someone that would work, and second, would you do it? 

 

Is this question to me because i suggested somewhere around here not sure if it was this thread about shipping Ghost to the Leafs for Kapanen and i forget who responded by saying no that Ghost was going through a down year.

 

But i said i would trade Ghost for Kapanen.

 

However i also altered that a little and proposed being nice and sending Ghost home to Florida for Henrik Borgstrom and Owen Tippett.

 

Borgstrom could slot in the 3rd line center spot and Tippett could join the Phantoms next year.

 

And i would only do this because they still have Sanheim and Myers to provide offense going forward.

 

And was just throwing this around is all....no rumor or nothing...it was just a slow day.

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10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Is this question to me because i suggested somewhere around here not sure if it was this thread about shipping Ghost to the Leafs for Kapanen and i forget who responded by saying no that Ghost was going through a down year.

 

But i said i would trade Ghost for Kapanen.

 

However i also altered that a little and proposed being nice and sending Ghost home to Florida for Henrik Borgstrom and Owen Tippett.

 

Borgstrom could slot in the 3rd line center spot and Tippett could join the Phantoms next year.

 

And i would only do this because they still have Sanheim and Myers to provide offense going forward.

 

And was just throwing this around is all....no rumor or nothing...it was just a slow day.

No, it wasn't too you specifically. Lol I didn't see your other exchange. 

 

I actually saw an article on TSN that the Leafs are reportedly willing to ship a first and Kapanen for a defenseman.  So, I was kind of wondering how we could get in on that.  I agree that Ghost is the only one that makes sense, but I'm not sure I do it.  The first rounder may make it enough. 

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26 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

No, it wasn't too you specifically. Lol I didn't see your other exchange. 

 

I actually saw an article on TSN that the Leafs are reportedly willing to ship a first and Kapanen for a defenseman.  So, I was kind of wondering how we could get in on that.  I agree that Ghost is the only one that makes sense, but I'm not sure I do it.  The first rounder may make it enough. 

 

He could be a nice addition to the right side once they move Simmer.

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I don't think Ghost is the type of defenceman the Leafs are thinking for Kapanen and a 1st. They already have Gardiner...who's kind of like Ghost only even worse defensively. They also have Reilly who's an excellent offensive dman. I think they want a guy who can solidify things in their own end. 

 

 What about Gudas and Simmonds for Kapanen and a 1st? Philly would have to eat money to make it work...but it would help the Leafs on the grit part...and they'll need that vs  the Bruins in a 7 game series. Not sure how Leaf fans would feel. I know they'd prefer a better defenceman but we can't send Provorov anywhere. And Simmonds is a big plus for the playoffs for them.

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1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

What about Gudas and Simmonds for Kapanen and a 1st? Philly would have to eat money to make it work...but it would help the Leafs on the grit part...and they'll need that vs  the Bruins in a 7 game series. Not sure how Leaf fans would feel. I know they'd prefer a better defenceman but we can't send Provorov anywhere. And Simmonds is a big plus for the playoffs for them.

 

I think Toronto would want someone like Sanheim and that's also a no go.

 

If the package going to Toronto is Simmonds and Gudas, I think there's very little chance that Kapanen and a first come the other way, especially if Kapanen is going to be a big part of the team going forward. 

I really believe people are going to be disappointed with what the Flyers will get in return for Gudas and Simmonds. I'd expect a Leafs deal to be centered around futures for both - Bracco, Liljegren, a roster player (probably Connor Brown) and a first. Even then, the Flyers would need to take on salary because Toronto doesn't have enough room. Can you say Zaitsev?

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7 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

I think Toronto would want someone like Sanheim and that's also a no go.

 

If the package going to Toronto is Simmonds and Gudas, I think there's very little chance that Kapanen and a first come the other way, especially if Kapanen is going to be a big part of the team going forward. 

I really believe people are going to be disappointed with what the Flyers will get in return for Gudas and Simmonds. I'd expect a Leafs deal to be centered around futures for both - Bracco, Liljegren, a roster player (probably Connor Brown) and a first. Even then, the Flyers would need to take on salary because Toronto doesn't have enough room. Can you say Zaitsev?

 

No way I'd trade Sanheim...but I also think the Leafs want someone more...seasoned.  It's time for them to take their shot...not that they won't have more. But next year Mathews AND Marner get paid.

 

 GMs can get pretty stupid at the trade deadline. If the Leafs don't get them...Boston or Tampa could. They don't want that either.

 

 I'm not much of a Bracco fan...though I haven't seen him play this year.

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1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

 

No way I'd trade Sanheim...but I also think the Leafs want someone more...seasoned.  It's time for them to take their shot...not that they won't have more. But next year Mathews AND Marner get paid.

 

 GMs can get pretty stupid at the trade deadline. If the Leafs don't get them...Boston or Tampa could. They don't want that either.

 

 I'm not much of a Bracco fan...though I haven't seen him play this year.

 

I like Bracco. I watched a lot of him in Kitchener and Windsor and he's a really good hockey player. He's also adjusted really well to the AHL this year and I see some Konecny in him in terms of tenacity and skating. Konecny/Voracek/Bracco is a pretty decent 3 deep RW.

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One issue I have with the Leafs pick is that it's not likely be very high. That's not to say it's worthless by any stretch, but it's certainly worth rather less than a pick in the top ten or something.

 

Kapanen is alright. I don't know that he's any better than tweeners we have currently (Lindblom, Vorobyev, Laughton, etc). He'd essentially take Simmer's spot on the 3rd line, which is fine, but it doesn't feel like it would be a huge improvement.

 

I feel like we should be able to get better than that elsewhere if we're to trade Ghost away. I don't hate the Gudas and Simmonds for Kapanen and a 1st idea though. Given his UFA status, I'm not sure Simmonds will give us as much as we might like. Getting a young gun and a 1st (albeit a lowish one) seems alright to me. I don't hate Gudas, but I would at least consider it, especially if Fletch can get some other trades done for Ghost and Voracek elsewhere to bolster the rest of the roster.

 

I should note I'm very doubtful Fletch will make that many moves. I think we see Simmonds go and that's it.

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4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

I don't think Ghost is the type of defenceman the Leafs are thinking for Kapanen and a 1st. They already have Gardiner...who's kind of like Ghost only even worse defensively. They also have Reilly who's an excellent offensive dman. I think they want a guy who can solidify things in their own end. 

 

 What about Gudas and Simmonds for Kapanen and a 1st? Philly would have to eat money to make it work...but it would help the Leafs on the grit part...and they'll need that vs  the Bruins in a 7 game series. Not sure how Leaf fans would feel. I know they'd prefer a better defenceman but we can't send Provorov anywhere. And Simmonds is a big plus for the playoffs for them.

 

This works.  Gudas has played decently, if unspectacularly.   

 

Hagg is the kind of player but probably doesn't have enough time in to be attractive enough for Kappy and a 1st (even with Simmonds).  Plus, I really don't want to trade Hagg.

 

If Gudas and Simmonds gets it done, I pull the trigger.

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