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OccamsRazor

Flyers trade Jordan Weal

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40 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

I'd say this is roster clearing.  It's a start.  

 

I'm glad we know Fletcher has a pulse at least.

 

Dear Lawd I hope he doesn't do anything crazy and make me angry with him.

 

Please Chuck don't do anything crazy yo!

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10 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

So I would prefer to ship this years pick but since it's maybe a top 5 pick I will send them a 2020 1s round pick and...

 

...whatelse?

 

I would love love love to have Jake be a big piece going back the other way...

 

...but what else would it take?

 

Lyon or Stolie to help them fill a void in goal.

 

But it may take a little more....

 

There is no way I’m trading this year’s 1st. Does Melnyk think he’s talking to himself?

 

Are you saying you would be ok with trading Jake, Lyon, a 1st, and a “little more” for UFA Stone and 38 year old Anderson??

 

No way I do that deal. 

 

Edit: Just read the Ek piece that talks about being sure the Flyers could extend Stone first. Still not sure I’d want to automatically give a guy 7-8 years before he even plays for the O&B.

Edited by brelic
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11 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

There is no way I’m trading this year’s 1st. Does Melnyk think he’s talking to himself?

 

Are you saying you would be ok with trading Jake, Lyon, a 1st, and a “little more” for UFA Stone and 38 year old Anderson??

 

No way I do that deal. 

 

Edit: Just read the Ek piece that talks about being sure the Flyers could extend Stone first. Still not sure I’d want to automatically give a guy 7-8 years before he even plays for the O&B.

 

I think Jake, Lyon and maybe a 5th rounder should do it.

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I'm a little late to this topic but I like this trade for both teams.   Give  a :plus1: to Fletcher in his first trade as the Flyers GM. 

The Yotes have been good trading partners for the Flyers and I believe they got a serviceable center in Weal as they have some key injuries up the middle in Schmaltz and Richardson.   The Flyers opened up a roster spot and gained a pick which can be used in a future trade.

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@TropicalFruitGirl26

Great post, excellent puns. You are Weally good at this.

 

We got a good look at what Weal can do and at this level it is; possess the the puck with no positive outcome. 

He's got skill, but he's not fast enough to get to where he can do damage, he's not strong enough to bull through a check, he was excellent in shootouts, has a great handle and his practice efforts show in that role. but that's not worth a roster spot, bottom line; he just wasn't effective here. He had decent linemates, so it's not like he was carrying a couple of plumbers around for 13 minutes a night. 

I hope "the thing" that makes him a viable NHL player happens for him in Arizona. He is a nice person and a hard worker, he's easy to root for because of that and I imagine that was why Hextall kept giving him a look. Fletcher didn't have that relationship so it was probably an easy decision. 

I won't miss him but I do hope he can stick somewhere as a player and if not I'll be you he'd be a good coach. 

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11 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

Exactly.
If Philadelphia wants a young, talented core that can grow together, unfortunately, it means starting some where like this..... start with the kit before moving on to the kaboodle...

The team will likely try spinning it as "retooling on the fly" (DEFINITELY pun intended :) ), but depending on how well things pan out not only with the players they will try keeping goes, but how far ahead their divisional competitors get, they just might have to go full blown rebuild.

Deer TFG:

 

Happy New Year! 

I have to agree with John Boruk that this core has been together since the 2011-12 and hasn't delivered much.  It may need sizable demolition.  And at this juncture, I think most fans won't cry too many tears.  Six years without a playoff win is an eternity for a franchise with this history and finances.  I "get" my backyard Panthers having performance issues. Not the O and B.  I suspect jettisoning Weal is the start of retooling or whatever....

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16 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@TropicalFruitGirl26

Great post, excellent puns. You are Weally good at this.

 

We got a good look at what Weal can do and at this level it is; possess the the puck with no positive outcome. 

He's got skill, but he's not fast enough to get to where he can do damage, he's not strong enough to bull through a check, he was excellent in shootouts, has a great handle and his practice efforts show in that role. but that's not worth a roster spot, bottom line; he just wasn't effective here. He had decent linemates, so it's not like he was carrying a couple of plumbers around for 13 minutes a night. 

I hope "the thing" that makes him a viable NHL player happens for him in Arizona. He is a nice person and a hard worker, he's easy to root for because of that and I imagine that was why Hextall kept giving him a look. Fletcher didn't have that relationship so it was probably an easy decision. 

I won't miss him but I do hope he can stick somewhere as a player and if not I'll be you he'd be a good coach. 

He's a tweener. Period. 

 

All the stuff you said about character and work ethic is, I think, quite accurate. And I think that's how he's made it as far as he has. And good on him for it. 

 

But yeah, we've seen the ceiling of what you're going to get. Hopefully, he's able to have a nice career out of it. 

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o, I'll tell you what I want, what I Weally, Weally want
So tell me what you want, what you Weally, Weally want
I'll tell you what I want, what I Weally, Weally want
So tell me what you want, what you Weally, Weally want

 

 

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5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I think Jake, Lyon and maybe a 5th rounder should do it.

 

I like Stone, but that looks like an awful over payment just to swap one RW for another.

 

Just looking at a comparison:

 

Voracek

608pts in 812g (0.7ppg) | 8.2mil (6y) | 29yrs old

 

Stone

297pts in 352g (0.8ppg) | 7.3mil (UFA) | 26yrs old

 

I fully agree Voracek should be moved, but Ottawa doesn't seem like a good partner. In fact, Ottawa seems like a garbage partner no matter how you cut it. Both our teams are in the gutter. We should essentially be looking for the same stuff in trades.

 

Trading Voracek plus a bunch of other stuff for a guy who likely will ask for 9million and really isn't even guaranteed to want to stay on this team at all seems like an ill-fated situation at best. I expect Stone will be traded to a contender (or at least a team on the upswing) who can offer Ottawa some proper building pieces. That's what they need. They don't need a RW with similar point totals nearing the back end of his career.

 

More suitable trading partners would actually be the same as those who would go for Stone. We're looking at a contending team as a trading partner imo. Ottawa is... not that.

 

The fact rumours are floating around the Flyers are heavy buyers is extremely worrying to me. It suggests Fletch is firm on the homercoaster and hopping right into win now mode. Clearly, we do not have the core required to make any kind of run. Yeah, Voracek should go. Simmonds too. I'd move Ghost as well. But we should be trying to get overpayments from contenders for all of those guys. 

 

There's koolaid being drunk in Flyersland again. 

Edited by elmatus
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1 hour ago, elmatus said:

 

I like Stone, but that looks like an awful over payment just to swap one RW for another.

 

You would be getting Anderson back too for one year.

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1 hour ago, elmatus said:

They don't need a RW with similar point totals nearing the back end of his career.

 

Not sure how you can come up with that???

 

Who else is going to be able to play RW on the top line for them?? He barely can keep up as the 2nd line RW?

 

32 year Bobby Ryan? He barely can keep up as the 2nd line RW?

 

Mikkel Boedker? HA!!!

 

Magnus Paajarvi?? Nope?

 

They don't have anyone and ain't no team going to trade a kid who is ready to play on the top line for a one year rental of Stone.

 

So they need someone to play on their top line next year more than any picks or prospects can help them.

 

So Jake (just 29) can do that and is signed for 5 more years at a decent price.

 

So until i hear a better offer for the Senators i think this is a great offer for them back.

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5 hours ago, ruxpin said:

He's a tweener. Period. 

 

All the stuff you said about character and work ethic is, I think, quite accurate. And I think that's how he's made it as far as he has. And good on him for it. 

 

But yeah, we've seen the ceiling of what you're going to get. Hopefully, he's able to have a nice career out of it. 

 

Hard to believe the Flyers got a 3rd round pick for Rinaldo and couldn't do any better than a 6th for Weal though.

 

Oh well i hope a kid gets a look in his spot. It's time to get Weise out of the lineup and give NAK some minutes in the NHL.

 

It is time to see what NAK can do i'm sure next year he will require waivers. So if not now then when??

 

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

Who else is going to be able to play RW on the top line for them?? He barely can keep up as the 2nd line RW?

 

 

That's not the main reason the trade seems bad to me. The Flyers are currently one of the very worst teams in the league. Mark Stone is a UFA, and he's been an above average player over the years. He's going to have a lot of teams looking to sign him in the off season, and the 2018-19 Flyers are not exactly a very attractive destination.

 

He's looking to leave a poor team because he wants to play somewhere he may find success. I'm not sure going from the 31st overall to the 30th overall team is much of an improvement in that regard. More than likely he will be moved for whatever Melnyk can get as a rental. From there, either he signs long term with that team if the future looks good, or he hits the market in the off season. Either way, the Flyers don't feel like a fit.

 

And again, this is not me saying I wouldn't want him. I do very much like Stone. It just doesn't seem like a likely trade at this time. I think it probably would have been doable last off season, and maybe Hexy could have locked him up before the season trainwreck we're currently enduring, but Hexy wasn't very interested in moving big pieces, so here we are.

 

If Fletch is any good, he should be able to get a pretty decent haul for a guy like Voracek. I don't want to trade him for a guy who's just going to walk in the off season. And I certainly don't want to trade him plus a bunch of other stuff for a guy who will walk in the off season.

 

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

You would be getting Anderson back too for one year.

 

Hart is playing as well as Anderson would. I'm not opposed to getting Anderson as a back up to Hart next season, but I don't really think it's necessary. One of our current slate of goalies can serve just as well as a back up, and they wouldn't cost anything to get.

 

I don't dislike Anderson mind you. I would prefer him as a back up, or as someone splitting time with Hart, over any of our current goalies. But trading Voracek should net us something we need, and I don't think Anderson is a need.

Edited by elmatus

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4 minutes ago, elmatus said:

He's going to have a lot of teams looking to sign him in the off season, and the 2018-19 Flyers are not exactly a very attractive destination.

 

I disagree with that. It is a team in flux. A young team. With a young star goalie and some good pieces throughout the lineup.

 

And a chance to play with Giroux and Coots has to be appealing.

 

And sure there will be other teams out there competing for his services...but i don't think they can beat what the Flyers can offer.

 

I would want an extension worked out before a trade went down though.

 

Anderson would be here for a year to mentor Hart and would be an ok backup.

 

I guess we'll as i aid just have to agree to disagree.

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On 1/11/2019 at 6:08 PM, OccamsRazor said:

I guess worst part is how they couldn't get more for a guy LA didn't want to expose to waivers and Ron traded for and he couldn't even make the lineup over Varone...meh...buh bye Jordan...

 

That Hextall was able to get Weal thrown in to the VLC/LSchenn deal is more of a feather in the cap than a black eye.

 

23 hours ago, brelic said:

I would have thought you could fetch more for a 25-30 point guy than a 6th rounder and ECHL player. 

 

Weal never got to 25, much less 30. His best year was 21 points in 69 games (projects to 24.9 over 82). That said, his ppg (.31) does spec out to just over 25 points per 82 games, though.

 

He also couldn't get on the ice consistently on the second-to-last-place team in the league.

 

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

Hard to believe the Flyers got a 3rd round pick for Rinaldo and couldn't do any better than a 6th for Weal though.

 

Not everybody is Don Sweeney 👺

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The trade is on the less than side for the Flyers. Arizona is on the heavier side of this trade, no matter what our circumstances are.

Weal can score goals at the NHL level. He wasn't going to score alot for us, with this current team, but he should of been traded for a fourth rounder at the least, unless a potential NHL prospect was coming back. A fifth and a sixth might of worked.

We didn't have to trade Weal until the trade deadline for a better trade.

Is it a major loss = No!

I hope going forward our GM does a better job in getting return value for what we have patiently been waiting for, for over 5 years already. Be smart about it, don't just give shat away, just because you have assets at your disposal, make every trade count for the purpose of moving the dial forward.

 

Once again so far this trade was weak.

Our grade C+ asset got traded for C- return.

Had the pick been a 5th and 6th(or even a 6th and 7th) we would of left with a C+ or better return.

Hope our grade A assets get better returns.

Not too happy with this trade. Not for the traded player but how our return wasn't too helpful moving forward.

If we needed roster spots, Weise and Jori could of been reassigned to the AHL and we could of brought up two players.

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On 1/12/2019 at 2:53 PM, elmatus said:

The fact rumours are floating around the Flyers are heavy buyers is extremely worrying to me. It suggests Fletch is firm on the homercoaster and hopping right into win now mode. Clearly, we do not have the core required to make any kind of run. Yeah, Voracek should go. Simmonds too. I'd move Ghost as well. But we should be trying to get overpayments from contenders for all of those guys. 

It's Eklund, so I'm not getting too worked up about anything - yet.

 

But, I expect that they will move at least one young player or prospect for a bona fide NHL roster player.  I think one or two of Ghost, Hagg or Myers are good possibilities to be moved.  Maybe some of the second tier prospects.  Doubt Provorov or Konecny is moved.  I kind of think Sanheim has played himself into a safe spot as well, despite the gaffe against NJ.  I also think he makes Ghost expendable.  I think playoff bound teams may have an interest in Hagg.  He's also got another year left on a reasonable deal.

 

Simmonds and Raffl will be traded for picks/prospects.  I just don't see a playoff bound team sending us an NHL roster player, unless they have a positional glut somewhere.  Hopefully those picks/prospects can someday replace the prospects they deal.

 

I'd be shocked if Voracek is dealt at the deadline.  Maybe at the draft or before FA.

 

I feel like there could be a lot of talent available at the deadline.  I mean, CBJ really has a dilemma with Panarin and Bob.  LA looks like it needs to rebuild and will probably look to shed some of their roster.  STL needs to do something.  OTT will be moving players.  What does Chicago do?  Also, there are a bunch of bubble teams in the West that could be buyers or sellers (Ducks?).  Would hope for some activity at the deadline.  

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29 minutes ago, vis said:

But, I expect that they will move at least one young player or prospect for a bona fide NHL roster player

 

I suspect you're right. At least that's what the current stream of thought from Fletch seems to be.

 

Just the thought of that frustrates me though. What player will we be able to get to turn around from being 31st in the NHL into some semblance of a playoff threat?

 

At some point, we need to shed some of the current core that just isn't getting the job done. That's what I fear Fletch will be reluctant to do. I worry the Homercoaster is now firmly in the station, and we're about to mortgage the future on the feint hopes that Voracek will somehow morph into Kucherov at the tender age of 30.

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22 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Just the thought of that frustrates me though. What player will we be able to get to turn around from being 31st in the NHL into some semblance of a playoff threat?

Doubt any single player can accomplish that.  Question is whether the return is something that fills a need not currently met, e.g., legit 2/3 C, top 4 d-man (capable in his own zone) or solid veteran goaltender.

 

22 minutes ago, elmatus said:

At some point, we need to shed some of the current core that just isn't getting the job done. That's what I fear Fletch will be reluctant to do. I worry the Homercoaster is now firmly in the station, and we're about to mortgage the future on the feint hopes that Voracek will somehow morph into Kucherov at the tender age of 30.

I hear you, but I hope they have more sense than that.  Fletcher has to know that they are more than a few moves away and that the "core" needs a change.  Moving Simmonds is not enough.  At least Fletcher doesn't have any loyalty to these guys.  Doubt Holmgren does, either.

 

They better not write this season off as a "bad year."  I'm not sure if the fact that a major trade hasn't happened is more comforting to me or not.

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Well Weal has already played two games with zero points and a nice shiny -3....noice!!!

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4 hours ago, vis said:

I just don't see a playoff bound team sending us an NHL roster player, unless they have a positional glut somewhere.  Hopefully those picks/prospects can someday replace the prospects they deal.

 

On teh Twitters Meltzer was speculating acquiring picks/assets and flipping them for NHL roster players.

 

You know, trade Simmonds and Voracek for a bunch of things you then trade to get other teams' Simmonds and Voracek.

 

Or something. 👺

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2 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

On teh Twitters Meltzer was speculating acquiring picks/assets and flipping them for NHL roster players.

 

You know, trade Simmonds and Voracek for a bunch of things you then trade to get other teams' Simmonds and Voracek.

 

Or something. 👺

Yeah, the elusive "three way trade" perhaps.  Always works out well for all of the teams.  

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16 hours ago, vis said:

Yeah, the elusive "three way trade" perhaps.  Always works out well for all of the teams.  

 

To Ottawa: Matt Duchene

To Nashville: Kyle Turris,

To Colorado: Andrew Hammond, 2019 1st round pick (from Ottawa), 2019 3rd pick (from Ottawa), Shane Bowers (Ottawa's 2017 1st round pick), 2018 2nd round pick (from Nashville), Sam Girard, Vladislav Kamenev.

 

That's an incredible return for Matt Duchene. But at the end of the day, Duchene is the best player in the trade, and quantity doesn't always (often?) equal quality. Hammond was a flash in the pan no longer in the NHL, Bowers is probably a replacement level bottom 6, Girard might be good, Kamenev looks like Nashville's version of NAK and a likely 4th line player.

 

The only real value in that trade for Colorado was the deferred 1st rounder (which was supposed to be last year) that Ottawa pushed to this year... if it ends up being a guy like Hughes or Kakko, that's a heckuva coup. 

 

I know I'd be disappointed if that was the return for trading Giroux unless the 1st round pick is a top 2.

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