Game 46: Wild at Flyers; 1/14/19 @ 7

[mkscrewy]

Credit where it’s due. Good game by a couple guys I’ve been flogging. How was the Wild’s 4th goal not goalie interference?

[Howie58]

I agree with Wayne Simmonds' post-game comments--Gordon deserves credit for stopping the clock and getting the guys focused after being down 2-0.  Patrick showed some good skills and Hart learned he might win some ugly ones.  

[flyerrod]

6 minutes ago, mkscrewy said:

Credit where it’s due. Good game by a couple guys I’ve been flogging. How was the Wild’s 4th goal not goalie interference?

They considered Hagg's touching Staal a "push". Staal totally sold that and found some Buyers in Hebert and Kovalchik. I was really happy to see the Flyers NOT fold and keep playing. I still can't for the life of me see what MacDud has over Folin.....

[Poulin20]

So that’s where the 3rd touchdown went that the Eagles needed, they donated it to the Flyers after they went up 14-0.  I guess they figured they wouldn’t need it.

[OccamsRazor]

Yeah they show up in a meaningless game with nothing on the line....whopppeee....

 

..**** em!

 

 

[brelic]

 

Good character win last night.

 

Down 2-0 and 3-2, and with their rookie goalie having an off night, the team dug in and came up with some goals to help him out. That's a nice change. It's good for Hart to have nights like this - where the team bails him out - and good for the team to score more than 2. 

 

The 5 forward PP looked good, but I feel that it's just waiting to be exploited by a more aggressive PK team. 

 

JVR, Simmonds, and Patrick all needed this scoring outburst.

 

A fake TSN tweet said the Flyers had traded Simmonds to Edmonton for Talbot and Puljujarvi. Get'er done, Fletch.

 

Now back to your regularly scheduled tanking. 

 

 

[Howie58]

Agreed with Bre that seeing some scoring was welcome relief.  It may not matter much at this juncture but at least it makes for watchable hockey.  JVR's hat trick was "unusual." It was more being in the right place than show of skill.  But as they say, sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

It may not matter much at this juncture but at least it makes for watchable hockey. 

 

I hate to say it but i am done doing that for the year. 

 

However if say a Myers or another prospect of interest was to be recalled i may then try and watch some but as of right now i have wrote them off.

 

I hope Hart gets the experience he will need to be relied up heavily next year which i think is coming. Which is a good thing.

 

There needs to be some dead weight trimming soon i hope before or at the deadline...who i guess only Chuck knows.

 

Them lighting it up at the end of the season i think doesn't promise anything when it comes to next year i'm afraid.

[wild.source]

12 hours ago, mkscrewy said:

Credit where it’s due. Good game by a couple guys I’ve been flogging. How was the Wild’s 4th goal not goalie interference?

Why don't you look at the one that Bruce challenged that was clearly offside.

[vis]

Sadly, I fell asleep real early and missed everything that happened after Patrick tied it at 3.  Up until that point, I thought they showed good effort.  Nice to see that they rebounded from an early deficit.  Hart looked leaky on a couple of those early goals.

 

Saw that Carchidi retweeted that fake tweet.  Dude is an embarrassment.  He makes me cringe every time I hear him on the Sirius NHL channel.  That said, if that is the return for Simmonds, I think I'd be kind of bummed unless someone can convince me Puljujarvi is not a bust and just needs a change of scenery.

 

Let's see how they fare against the Bruins.

[vis]

26 minutes ago, DevinWieser said:

Why don't you look at the one that Bruce challenged that was clearly offside.

From what I gather, it wasn't offside since Couturier didn't touch the puck after it crossed the blueline and before JVR cleared.  He touched it after JVR tagged up.

[brelic]

39 minutes ago, vis said:

 

Saw that Carchidi retweeted that fake tweet.  Dude is an embarrassment.  He makes me cringe every time I hear him on the Sirius NHL channel.  That said, if that is the return for Simmonds, I think I'd be kind of bummed unless someone can convince me Puljujarvi is not a bust and just needs a change of scenery.

 

Let's see how they fare against the Bruins.

 

Really? I dunno, I'd be pretty stoked to land a 20 year old 4th overall pick for an expiring UFA that is no longer in the team's plans. 

 

Puljujarvi is 4 months older than Patrick. It's way too early to declare either a bust. 

 

Maybe Nashville or Winnipeg have better prospects / young roster players to offer.

 

Lots of moving parts at this time of year, and I think Voracek could land us something really nice but will almost certainly be in the offseason.

 

 

[mkscrewy]

1 hour ago, DevinWieser said:

Why don't you look at the one that Bruce challenged that was clearly offside.

why are you trying to pull a straw man?

 

 i didn't see the play myself, but if we got away with one and you got away with one that means you still lose. which i gotta say is probably bad for both of us.

[vis]

23 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Really? I dunno, I'd be pretty stoked to land a 20 year old 4th overall pick for an expiring UFA that is no longer in the team's plans. 

I feel like he's been a pretty big disappointment up there.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Can @JR Ewing lend his thoughts on Puljajarvi, at least for academic purposes?

 

Quote

Lots of moving parts at this time of year, and I think Voracek could land us something really nice but will almost certainly be in the offseason.

Agree here.  Seems doubtful Voracek would be a trade deadline deal.  Offseason seems more likely.

 

Was just looking at Jake's contract.  It's got a somewhat off-putting structure in that he's guaranteed bonuses if there is a lockout either in 20/21 or 22/23 (at least total salary in those years is slightly lower).  Wonder if teams can retain a portion of bonus payments only?

 

2018-19		$8,250,000	$8,250,000	$0	$2,000,000	$7,250,000	$9,250,000	$9,250,000
2019-20		$8,250,000	$8,250,000	$0	$2,000,000	$7,250,000	$9,250,000	$9,250,000
2020-21		$8,250,000	$8,250,000	$0	$4,000,000	$2,250,000	$6,250,000	$6,250,000
2021-22		$8,250,000	$8,250,000	$0	$0	$7,500,000	$7,500,000	$7,500,000
2022-23		$8,250,000	$8,250,000	$0	$5,000,000	$1,250,000	$6,250,000	$6,250,000
2023-24		$8,250,000	$8,250,000	$0	$0	$7,500,000	$7,500,000	$7,500,000

[radoran]

2 hours ago, Howie58 said:

JVR's hat trick was "unusual." It was more being in the right place than show of skill.  But as they say, sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. 

 

80% of success is just showing up...

[radoran]

26 minutes ago, vis said:

I feel like he's been a pretty big disappointment up there.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Can @JR Ewing lend his thoughts on Puljajarvi, at least for academic purposes?

 

I think they definitely feel he should be further along as a #4 overall. But @brelic is right that it's too early to declare "bust."

 

In some respects Puljujarvi hasn't gotten the good look in the right place in the lineup. In others, he's 20.

 

If anything, EDM might be more inclined to move him if they are "disappointed". If he even turns out to be a Teravainen-type player (20/60), that's not bad.

 

Obviously, I'd like JR's insight as well!

[vis]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

If anything, EDM might be more inclined to move him if they are "disappointed". If he even turns out to be a Teravainen-type player (20/60), that's not bad.

Maybe. 

 

Would you rather take back a first and a third and trust our scouts?

[brelic]

58 minutes ago, vis said:

Maybe. 

 

Would you rather take back a first and a third and trust our scouts?

 

Tough call. 

 

The odds are that a 4th overall will end up a fair bit better than a mid-1st rounder or later depending on if they make the playoffs. 

 

The 3rd is nice but a real crapshoot. 

 

I'd go with the 4th overall even if he's been underwhelming thus far. 

[JR Ewing]

@vis @radoran

 

I think that a lot of people see that draft position and picture a pure point producer, and that (imo) isn't Puljujarvi's drawing card. There isn’t a without-the-puck facet of the winger role during 5v5 that Puljujärvi doesn’t show strength in. He helps zone exits, entries, disrupts breakouts with well-time poke checks, forces dump-ins with backpressure, forcing turnovers. He does all of those things at the NHL level right now. He was a very strong (but not elite) producer in the SM-Liiga who was used in a two-way role: to get the puck back by disrupting and harassing, use his speed through the neutral zone, and out-chance the opposition. He was Karpat's youngest player and their best in this regard.

 

So yeah, I fully expect the Oilers to trade Puljujarvi, as they seem mystified as to why he hasn't produced as much as they thought he would, even though he's big, strong, fast and can shoot the puck, and plays like how I mentioned. They have set him up to fail in many respects:

 

-For some reason, he wasn't scoring much when he played with Kassian and Lucic. What?

-For some odd reason, he didn't score a lot when his primary partner was Jujhar Khaira. No kidding?

-He's played with Nugent-Hopkins for a bit now, and has scored some more, but that also means he's seeing the toughest competition now.

 

He DID score when he was McDavid. At first-line rates, actually. But, why would Edmonton do that again?

 

-Rantanen didn't set the world on fire until the Avs played him with MacKinnon.

-PLD's scoring rates were pedestrian until they played with Panarin.

-Konecny gets a far higher share of the goals and scoring chances when he's playing with Giroux.

 

It's almost as if playing your young skilled prospects with other skill players helps you develop them.

 

---

 

I had meant to speak about Puljuarvi's difficulties with Todd McLellan:

 

TMac strongly favours a chip-and-chase game, and such a style is strongly against Jesse's strengths as a hockey player. Between that and language barrier, the two seemed to have issues. McLellan, at one point, left him out of the lineup for two weeks, and the Oilers were forced to send him to the AHL so he could get some playing time. He was recalled very quickly after Hitch took the coaching job.

[radoran]

1 hour ago, vis said:

Maybe. 

 

Would you rather take back a first and a third and trust our scouts?

 

What would I do? Would I decide to take a flier on the Finn?

 

Have you met me?

 

SUOMI!

 

 

But, like brelic says, it is a tough call. Rationally, if you're talking about a low lottery pick from Edmonton or, if the "rental" player (say, Simmonds) helps Edmonton into the playoffs and your pick gets into the middle-to-late round, I'd rather take the "disappointing" 4th overall.

[vis]

2 hours ago, radoran said:

 

What would I do? Would I decide to take a flier Flyer on the Finn?

Lol.  I should have known better.  Also, fixed your post.

 

2 hours ago, radoran said:

But, like brelic says, it is a tough call. Rationally, if you're talking about a low lottery pick from Edmonton or, if the "rental" player (say, Simmonds) helps Edmonton into the playoffs and your pick gets into the middle-to-late round, I'd rather take the "disappointing" 4th overall.

Fair points.  @JR Ewing's post helps shed some light on the lack of production.  I guess maybe I was expecting more of a return for Simmonds, but this season hasn't done much to improve his value.  Plus, he is UFA.  Maybe I need to temper expectations.

[vis]

@JR Ewing

 

Many thanks for the insight.  Do you think the Oilers might have a real interest in Simmonds?  Any rumors out there on that front?

 

Also, meant to ask, how is Puljajarvi's skating?

[vis]

2 hours ago, brelic said:

I'd go with the 4th overall even if he's been underwhelming thus far. 

I hear you.  I guess it's hard for me to see the value when he's got 7 goals and is a -10.  JREwing's post helps explain it, but yeesh...is that what we can expect for Simmonds?  Just seems weak.

[JR Ewing]

53 minutes ago, vis said:

@JR Ewing

 

Many thanks for the insight.  Do you think the Oilers might have a real interest in Simmonds?  Any rumors out there on that front?

 

Oh, I'm sure they would be interested in him. HOW interested? I couldn't hope to say. Trading Puljujarvi represents extreme risk for Edmonton. Making trades (Hall, #16 for Reinhart, Eberle, etc) is how they've gotten themselves into this pickle. For my part, I have zero confidence in them being able to get something like this done correctly.

 

There was a Simmonds to EDM rumour which somebody in Philly flat-out lied about, according to TSN. Bob McKenzie excoriated the guy on twitter over it. That's all that I've heard.

 

53 minutes ago, vis said:

Also, meant to ask, how is Puljajarvi's skating?

 

Jesse's a plus-skater. Long and clean strides, generates a lot of speed. He gets on people very quickly, hides his stick well, and when you think a lane is open, POP, there's his stick to knock it down/create a turnover. He's smart with the stick, but his feet get him into that position quickly.

 

[JR Ewing]

55 minutes ago, vis said:

I hear you.  I guess it's hard for me to see the value when he's got 7 goals and is a -10.  JREwing's post helps explain it, but yeesh...is that what we can expect for Simmonds?  Just seems weak.

 

Nothing to do with Puljujarvi as return for him, but 30-year UFA wingers playing the back nine of their careers don't always fetch a value which is commensurate with what they can still do on the ice.