The future is here: Carter Hart

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

 I wish him well. Its just very early in the game and like one expert once said when the Islanders Sabres were on a roll early in one season, you can win for a while on emotion and adrenaline.

 

Fixed it for you.

 

I loved how hype you were when the Sabres were on that roll. But it fell apart.

[radoran]

Hart is still sporting a GAA above 3 and a .902 SV% from his time in the A.

 

It's not like he lit everything up out of the gate. He stumbled.

 

Better to do that, and then right the ship, in the A than as The Chosen One.

 

But, just to engage in the exercise, if Hart had come up and played well and the Flyers were in better shape then...

[flyercanuck]

15 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

I do not hate the kid at all. Why would I?  I wish him well. Its just very early in the game and like one expert once said when the Islanders were on a roll early in one season, you can win for a while on emotion and adrenaline.  But eventually talent is going to set in.  Right now Stolak won on adrenalin and trying to out do Hart no doubt. But we know that its an anomaly with him

 

Thank God you don't get emotional after ONE win.

 

 Hows Eichmans season going? I know Skinnie has been hot. And Ritzoleeman has had a nice bounce back.

[OccamsRazor]

10 minutes ago, radoran said:

Hart is still sporting a GAA above 3 and a .902 SV% from his time in the A.

 

It's not like he lit everything up out of the gate. He stumbled.

 

Better to do that, and then right the ship, in the A than as The Chosen One.

 

But, just to engage in the exercise, if Hart had come up and played well and the Flyers were in better shape then...

 

I'm not worried about the AHL he shouldn't have been there to start the season. Period.

 

And the AHL numbers doesn't always mean much when the team in front of them are full of kids themselves trying to free lance so much like they do and it is going to distort the numbers some.

 

As I said he was the best goalie in the preseason and should have played on the Flyers.

 

And as you posted he had a 902% in the AHL and sports a 922% right now so with a better skilled pro team in front of him he will have better numbers.

 

And we have the benefit of hindsight now.

[pilldoc]

53 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

The way Stolak played last night, who knows?  You know they have to give him another shot after last night. Why not just give the Vezina to Hart right now. The second coming of Dominic Hasek no doubt

 

46 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Stolak?

 

I can't believe you didn't screw "Hart" up. Go Sables!

 

42 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

I do not hate the kid at all. Why would I?  I wish him well. Its just very early in the game and like one expert once said when the Islanders were on a roll early in one season, you can win for a while on emotion and adrenaline.  But eventually talent is going to set in.  Right now Stolak won on adrenalin and trying to out do Hart no doubt. But we know that its an anomaly with him

 

Rick,

 

for the love god... I know some hockey names are tough to spell, however, when you are told you spelled a name wrong and you STILL type it wrong ...c'mon man at least try to get it right.  Either look up the spelling of his name or use the unofficial nickname we use for him

 

For your benefit ...

 

It is Stolarz   or feel free to use is unofficial nickname ....Stolie

 

That is all ...carry on ....

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well the problem was he said he would play the best players after he claimed the kids would have to outplay the vets.

 

Hart outplayed all of them. So bottom line he lied doesn't look good to lie like that. Especially to all the other players.

 

I myself don't like liars....just don't make statement you are not going to honor. It's bad for business. I am glad he GONE!

 

 

 

Ron Hextall was an NHL goalie who benefited greatly from his time in the AHL, so could it be his handling of Hart was informed by his own personal experience ? Added to his view to the development of Jonathan Quick ? 

And let's be honest, Carter didn't exactly tear it up in the AHL in his first few weeks/ months so, maybe back off the mains a little on this one? 

Kid needed to learn to be a pro, better to do that in Allentown than under the microscope that is the goaltender position in Philadelphia.

 

Imagine if Hart had struggled, then what's the complaint ?  I think the extra caution handing the youngster was warranted. Hextall was after all playing a long game, he wanted Hart to dominate for years. 

[radoran]

35 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I'm not worried about the AHL he shouldn't have been there to start the season. Period.

 

Game 1 3.00/.912

Game 2 8.79/.750 (pulled)

Game 3 5.12/.848

Game 4 2.79/.893

 

That's Hart's first four professional games - 1-2-1. I'm happy those happened in Allentown and not South Philly. He also had a sub-.900 SV% in half of his AHL starts, including the game before he was called up.

 

And the way the Flyers opened the season I'm not sure he would have had much better results.

 

I know you're off the Hextall Bandwagon and are happy he's gone, which is fine (I'm agnostic about it) - but the fact remains that if things had gone the way you'd have preferred, he'd still be here. And so would Hakstol (who I'm less agnostic about). And the press wouldn't get to talk to assistant coaches, caterers would have to get menus approved, fire and brimstone falling from the sky, no post-game wings and pizza, dogs and cats living together - real Biblical stuff.

 

In the end, it took a record-tying season of goaltender ineptitude to even get ol' Fletch to bring up Hart.

 

So I'll focus on the future and worry less about what coulda been. 'Cause while it Coulda Been better, it also Coulda Been much worse.

 

I like the kid a lot. Positionally sound. Follows the puck. Great anticipation. Nice glove hand. Looks comfortable.

 

And while it's been a fun 13 games, it's still just 13 games.

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Game 1 3.00/.912

Game 2 8.79/.750 (pulled)

Game 3 5.12/.848

Game 4 2.79/.893

 

That's Hart's first four professional games - 1-2-1. I'm happy those happened in Allentown and not South Philly. He also had a sub-.900 SV% in half of his AHL starts, including the game before he was called up.

 

And the way the Flyers opened the season I'm not sure he would have had much better results.

 

I know you're off the Hextall Bandwagon and are happy he's gone, which is fine (I'm agnostic about it) - but the fact remains that if things had gone the way you'd have preferred, he'd still be here. And so would Hakstol (who I'm less agnostic about). And the press wouldn't get to talk to assistant coaches, caterers would have to get menus approved, fire and brimstone falling from the sky, no post-game wings and pizza, dogs and cats living together - real Biblical stuff.

 

In the end, it took a record-tying season of goaltender ineptitude to even get ol' Fletch to bring up Hart.

 

So I'll focus on the future and worry less about what coulda been. 'Cause while it Coulda Been better, it also Coulda Been much worse.

 

I like the kid a lot. Positionally sound. Follows the puck. Great anticipation. Nice glove hand. Looks comfortable.

 

And while it's been a fun 13 games, it's still just 13 games.

 

And all those numbers you quote had a lot to do with the other 18 guys in front of him too on many night at least a minimum of 4 ECHL guys in the lineup to boot.

 

Just like when he played the other night when he went down to play he got hung out to dry and lost 4-1.

 

And we'll never know how it would have went had he got the start for the season opener and on.

 

And yeah had it been successful Ron and Hak would still be here as well as Weise and Weal....so yeah let's just roll with it like it is.

 

And since Homer is running the show i'm not so sure the 6 injured goalies was the reason Hart got a chance.

 

For all we know that is what started all this Homer want Ron to bring the kid up and he refused...or it could have been part of it.

 

I guess we'll have to wait when Ron writes his autobiography.....

 

 

Lose for Hughes

 

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

Ron Hextall was an NHL goalie who benefited greatly from his time in the AHL, so could it be his handling of Hart was informed by his own personal experience ?

 

Sure it could but Ron was a 6th round pick to so a huge difference in the two.

 

And yes his personal experience might have had a lot to do with it.

 

And his numbers on a banged up AHL squad i would weigh so much on as i stated many nights they had ECHL guys on the squad .

 

I mean they even inked Samuelsson so they could enough defensemen.

 

Drake, Hora, Komm, Huntebrinker, Swavely, Josh Macdonald and Krushelinski have all played many games because they are so injured the AHL version of the Eagles.

 

I think Ron meant well he had Hart's best interest in mind....but many times he just expected like Hak all the young kids to be perfect all the time and that is just unrealistic.

 

No matter it's wudder under the bridge.

 

Hextall was a little overboard it seems on the caution and well it cost him his job. Let's see how this plays out now.

 

And if he would have struggled i wouldn't have complained he could be sent down. No biggie...and no matter what there will always be someone complaining this is Murica!!! 

 

 

 

[flyercanuck]

14 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

And since Homer is running the show i'm not so sure the 6 injured goalies was the reason Hart got a chance.

 

For all we know that is what started all this Homer want Ron to bring the kid up and he refused...or it could have been part of it.

 

I guess we'll have to wait when Ron writes his autobiography.....

 

 

Lose for Hughes

 

 

 

 

 

 Homer is the reason?

 

 If Homer was in charge of that draft we wouldn't have had a 2nd round choice. He would have dealt it for some 38 year old defenceman. Hextall had THREE 2nds in that draft. Injuries have hindered Laberges development...but Hart and Allison both look like good picks so far.

 

 I'll trust Hextalls way of developing goalies over Holmgrens. Unless you prefer Hart playing in Columbus.

[flyercanuck]

12 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Hextall was a little overboard it seems on the caution and well it cost him his job. Let's see how this plays out now.

And if he would have struggled i wouldn't have complained he could be sent down. No biggie...and no matter what there will always someone complaining this is Murica!!! 

 

Hextall was a little overboard it seems on the caution and well it cost him his job. Let's see how this plays out now.

 

Agreed.

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

Homer is the reason?

 

Yes i still think he is the puppet master. But i am talking about now.

 

 

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

If Homer was in charge of that draft we wouldn't have had a 2nd round choice.

 

Well yeah but Ron wasn't down with letting him get away with it he didn't like meddling. That has changed now.

 

He gone.

 

We'll see after the deadline passes...

[radoran]

19 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

And all those numbers you quote had a lot to do with the other 18 guys in front of him too on many night at least a minimum of 4 ECHL guys in the lineup to boot.

 

Yeah, I get that. But it's not like the Flyers were playing lights out hockey to start the season, was it? You remember the 5-2 loss to Colorado and the 8-2 loss to San Jose? The 6-5 "win" over Florida? The 6-3 loss to Columbus? Scoring two goals against Colorado (4-1), Boston (3-0), NYI (6-1)?

 

That has a lot to do with the other 18 guys in the lineup, too. Again, I'm glad Hart had that experience in the A.

 

8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Hextall was a little overboard it seems on the caution and well it cost him his job. Let's see how this plays out now.

 

Yeah, we will. But remember that calling up Hart wasn't a "genius move" by ol' Fletch. It was a move forced upon him.

 

Hextall got fired not because he didn't want to bring up kids, but because he didn't want to trade kids for vets to "make the playoffs and anything can happen." He was playing The Long Game, not the same ol' Phillyosophy.

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

You remember the 5-2 loss to Colorado and the 8-2 loss to San Jose? The 6-5 "win" over Florida? The 6-3 loss to Columbus? Scoring two goals against Colorado (4-1), Boston (3-0), NYI (6-1)?

 

Sure however i think if Hart is in the net it doesn't go down like that. Once again we can't prove it.

 

10 minutes ago, radoran said:

But remember that calling up Hart wasn't a "genius move" by ol' Fletch. It was a move forced upon him.

 

Yeah i am sure Holmgren was pushing this. Yet injuries were at a all time high like i have never seen.

 

Yet Fletch did give Misha another chance...would Ron have been so kind?? Not sure.

 

12 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Hextall got fired not because he didn't want to bring up kids, but because he didn't want to trade kids for vets to "make the playoffs and anything can happen."

 

Yeah it had to have something to do with it combined maybe with his past misses.

 

14 minutes ago, radoran said:

He was playing The Long, Long, Long Game, not the same ol' Phillyosophy.

 

Fixed it for you.

[Buffalo Rick]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Fixed it for you.

 

I loved how hype you were when the Sabres were on that roll. But it fell apart.

Oh, you think we are finished?  I doubt it very much.  Cheer for Dallas tonight.  I know you are

[Buffalo Rick]

2 hours ago, pilldoc said:

 

 

 

Rick,

 

for the love god... I know some hockey names are tough to spell, however, when you are told you spelled a name wrong and you STILL type it wrong ...c'mon man at least try to get it right.  Either look up the spelling of his name or use the unofficial nickname we use for him

 

For your benefit ...

 

It is Stolarz   or feel free to use is unofficial nickname ....Stolie

 

That is all ...carry on ....

Stolartz, Blowfarts, JoeBlowfarts, what is the difference?  You know which horse I am talking about

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Oh, you think we are finished?  I doubt it very much.  Cheer for Dallas tonight.  I know you are

 

You are like the Flyers on the outside looking in.

[Buffalo Rick]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

You are like the Flyers on the outside looking in.

But much closer with a winning record.  We will finish ahead of the Flyers.  Our biggest weakness is the goaltending which can be huge. But if these two can play half way decent we can take down Montreal. The Flyers are going nowhere.  This year or next year.

 

PS.  Get on the 76ers.  Best team in Philly and will win the title soon.  They are my favorite BB team

[OccamsRazor]

Just now, Hockey Junkie said:

We will finish ahead of the Flyers.

 

Well hang that in the rafters then....it will make a nice banner..."We got close to it!"

[Digityman]

It's not a coincidence that Hart's numbers are better now then when he first came up.   The team in front of him are playing much better and are literally "playing for him."   As someone said above, if Hart would have been with the big club to start the season, he's numbers wouldn't look nearly as rosy as they do now. 

 

I think Hexy was right to start Hart in the AHL.   I don't think Hart would have saved the team from sinking to the basement of the NHL and potentially could have cause other problems (fans turning on him, confidence ....).   In fact, if any 2 of the 14 goalies would have been healthy and played even average, I think Hart would still be in the AHL.  And honestly, he probably still does belong there despite his stellar play.  

 

But that's not where we are now.  Now (crazy) people are discussing Hart in the same sentence as Calder and sweater #1.....  I know most are kidding but some aren't.   As per usual it seems, this team comes out of January/Feb and starts putting it all together.  And it's helping Hart and Hart is helping this team.    Hell, did you know that their chances of making the playoffs after the Ranger win last night has increase 0.4% to....... drum roll.......   1.0%   (link)

 

Hart is making this team watchable.  I'm actually staying awake past the first period.   

 

[Buffalo Rick]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well hang that in the rafters then....it will make a nice banner..."We got close to it!"

You said the Flyers might get in. We shall see.  I say the Sabres have a far better chance and most people with any common sense agree

[Digityman]

3 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

You said the Flyers might get in. We shall see.  I say the Sabres have a far better chance and most people with any common sense agree

As of today, chances of making the playoffs:

Buffalo = 50%

Flyers = 1%

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/NHL.html

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

The Flyers are going nowhere.  This year or next year.

 

Are you talking from experience says the team who hasn't been there since 2010-11...

 

....and lost to the Flyers...last playoff win was 2006-07. No playoffs again for the Sabres...

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

9 minutes ago, Digityman said:

 I don't think Hart would have saved the team from sinking to the basement of the NHL

 

Seems like he could have made a nice difference to me....they lost a total of 12 games this year so far by one goal.

 

Hell if he just help to earn just half of those into wins 12 points that would put them tied for 2nd in the Metro with 60 points with the Caps.

 

Therefor taking the Blue Jackets spot because they only have 59 and would bump the Pens out.

 

So i think he could have made a huge difference but we'll never know you can't prove or disprove it.

 

 

[brelic]

25 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

So i think he could have made a huge difference but we'll never know you can't prove or disprove it.

 

I think this is missing the entire argument. It's not about what Hart might have hypothetically done had he started in the NHL. It's dependent on so many factors.

 

The larger point is that I suspect 30 other GMs would also have opted to start Hart - a freshly-turned 20 year old goalie at the time in his first professional season - in the AHL. He was seen as the goalie of the future, the guy to bring stability between the pipes for the next decade plus. There was absolutely no rush to bring him in that young without some time to acclimate in the AHL and see how he adjusts. Hell, he had his power cut off because he didn't understand he had to pay power bills! 

 

I get the point you're trying to make - but I don't think any GM makes that decision.