Cup Contenders?

[orange_crush]

Do you believe the Flyers are real Cup Contenders?

At the beginning of the season it looked promising, a healthy Pronger, a stud goalie, the rebirth of Jagr. But reality has set in;

• Pronger's career is most likely over,
  
• Breezy (Teabagger) is just another overrated and overpaid average goalie
  
• Defence has been a turnover machine
  

So if were not real contenders why not trade Jagr while he's hot and got some picks/prospects and clear some cap space?

Or if you do think we are contenders , what is going to push us to the top? Weber? And why are you willing to get rid of? The most logical would be trade JVR since his contract increases to 4 mill next year.

Thoughts?

[activestick]

Without a Pronger "type" D'man, we're not deep enough on defense to make a cup run.

As much as Jagr has surprised me with his play, I don't see him being healthy enough for a strong playoff run. He's already gimped up.

Bryz flat out sucks. Total disappointment. Based on his current play, no chance in the playoffs.

[flyerrod]

JVR falls into the most likely guy to be traded. Realistically, his cap hit is friendly and he has enough skills to get something in return. Plus it moves enough salary to make room for a good defensman, not just some average Joe.

Any cup run will be predicated on Bryz returning from the woods.

Edited January 10, 2012 by flyerrod

[FlyersFan4Life]

it really depends anything can happen in the playoffs. teams can go hot and cold. if the flyers play like they are capable of playing then yes they are a cup contender.

[orange_crush]

it really depends anything can happen in the playoffs. teams can go hot and cold. if the flyers play like they are capable of playing then yes they are a cup contender.

it really depends anything can happen in the playoffs. teams can go hot and cold. if the flyers play like they are capable of playing then yes they are a cup contender.

So are you going into the playoffs making a trade or sticking with what we got?

[The Quigster]

Giroux is the guy,who most teams would be interested in for a great return. JVR could help a lot of teams,including the Flyers. Remember Hamhuis,Ryan Parent? Is everybody happy with Simmonds,Voracek?Are they what you expected,how about Schenn? Homer should continue with the youth movement,this club has no reliable goalie,no chance for a cup this year,patience is what everybody needs now. Build through the draft!!!!! Look at Cooter!

[orange_crush]

JVR falls into the most likely guy to be traded. Realistically, his cap hit is friendly and he has enough skills to get something in return. Plus it moves enough salary to make room for a good defensman, not just some average Joe.

Any cup run will be predicated on Bryz returning from the woods.

Do you really think Breezy is any good? I don't

[orange_crush]

Without a Pronger "type" D'man, we're not deep enough on defense to make a cup run.

As much as Jagr has surprised me with his play, I don't see him being healthy enough for a strong playoff run. He's already gimped up.

Bryz flat out sucks. Total disappointment. Based on his current play, no chance in the playoffs.

So what do you do then? Trade Jagr? do you still pursue Weber?

[mojo1917]

I'll bite,

if there are no more injuries especially to the D-corps I sit tight this year and see what happens,

I look for a serviceable 4-6 defenseman at the trade deadline if i can get one without doing a whole lot of damage to the room i make a deal....I do not trade schenn , monoboy, read, unless the deal knocks my socks off.

then i go to the playoffs with what we've got & get these youngsters a taste of the tournament.

in the offseason

I find out what 20's situation is ... is he coming back will he retire ? once i have that answer, i throw chairman ed's money at shea weber, ryan suter, or pk subban. if they don't bite i throw less money at francois beauchamin and barrett jackman.

i think in a year bryzgalov has figured out what he will need to do to be a good goalie again, and in 2013 we will be a tough out/contender.

[FlyersFan4Life]

So are you going into the playoffs making a trade or sticking with what we got?

I would like to see them get a d man or 2. don't want weber because I don't want the flyers to put there eggs in one basket like they did with brezzy and pronger for a ton $$. that and it will cost the flyers good players and multiple draft picks. I am sick of watching the flyers piss away drafts picks. drafting players builds your team that's why teams like the hawks wings pens are good every year and get better because they don't trade draft picks all the time. I'd would not mind suter I think he will be moved before weber anyway so the preds can resign weber

[NoVaFlyerFan]

I seem to recall that over the summer when the trades were made, the consensus was that this team was going to go through some growing pains due to the youth, would struggle with scoring with the departure of Leino, Richards, Carter, and probably wouldn't be much of a contender unless Bryzgalov routinely stole games for us to make up for the other shortcomings. I believe the general expectation was a 5th-8th place finish in the conference and maybe a second-round exit, not that we'd be a cup contender.

At the half-way point, it turns out that we were correct about the youth going through growing pains and being inconsistent, but pleasantly surprised with the scoring, and grossly dissapointed with Bryzgalov. Overall, the fact that we are even asking whether this team is a cup contender -- despite the unexpected loss of Pronger for the year -- shows that we are way ahead of where we thought we would be six months ago.

But, this is still very much a work in progress, and we should enjoy watching it develop. I hope they don't trade away our future to make a cup run this year. This team doesn't (yet) have the consistency to be a contender. They score a lot, but they rarely dominate.

If we can make a trade to deal with long-term replacement of Timmonen and Pronger, that's fine. If we need to get a little tougher in spots, that's also fine. But no short term solutions.

[orange_crush]

it turns out that we were correct about the youth going through growing pains and being inconsistent

Really? JVR, Giroux, Hartnell, Simmonds, Vorecek are all having career years. Read and Courts are both in the running for the Calder

I don't think there are any growing pains, it just poor goaltending..

[Podein25]

I don't think there are any growing pains, it just poor goaltending..

So more like groin pain, i.e. every time Giveagoalup lets a softie in, my groin hurts.

[activestick]

So what do you do then? Trade Jagr? do you still pursue Weber?

Jagr/Giroux/Hartnell got it going on. The line seems flat with one of them out. You have to keep Jagr and hope for the best at this point.

I would be willing to give up a significant amount for Weber. He's arguably the best D'Man in the league and tough. He's basically the Pronger of 10 years ago. A game changing/dominating defenseman is required to go deep in the playoffs.

The glaring problem is Bryz. If he continues to play like he has been, it's a 1st round exit. Without a solid goalie, the ship is sunk.

[brelic]

I don't think the Flyers are Cup contenders this year. Ironically, I thought goal scoring would be a problem and that our defense/goalie would be better than last year.

In any case, I wouldn't trade away Jagr. I'm sure his presence has a lot to do with the renewed work ethic, and the emergence of Giroux and Hartnell. And it has probably opened up Voracek's eyes too.

That being said, he's not untouchable. If you can get a stud defenseman and Jagr has to be part of the deal, you take it.

I've said for me that Giroux is the only untouchable on this team. The most likely pieces to be moved in a trade, IMO, are JVR and/or Bob.

[Podein25]

Jagr/Giroux/Hartnell got it going on. The line seems flat with one of them out. You have to keep Jagr and hope for the best at this point.

Very true. I'd like Cooter to see more ice-time. Unlike JVR, he seems to make those around him better. Can't wait until he is our permanent 2nd line center....

[Digityman]

I don't think the Flyers are Cup contenders this year

I agree. Bruins, Canucks, Rangers, Sharks, Wild. IMHO the Flyers would put in a good showing but not enough to win a 7 game series.

That being said, he's not untouchable. If you can get a stud defenseman and Jagr has to be part of the deal, you take it.

*If* Jagr wanted to be traded to a cup contender, I would trade him similar to what they did with Footsburg. Anything coming back is a plus. Though, I would ask him to return next year if he wanted to continue in the NHL. A 6 month rental basically.

[terp]

@orange_crush

I don't believe they are. They are fine up front but they really miss Pronger's minutes. His absence will have the effect of wearing out the rest of the defensemen, especially Timonen and to a lesser extent Carle and Mezseros. I would also say that the Lilja signing isn't working out too well, so they have problems up and down the defense corps. Obviously, goaltending is a huge issue.

In terms of moves, I think they need to focus solely on the long term. Any expensive "tweaks" to make them a little better or a little more likely to make it out of the first round should be off limits. They are kind of limited given their cap situation and the uncertainty about Proner's future. I suspect he's done for good and his cap space opens up, but we'll see. The CBA expiration also diminishes the chance that they will do anything major. This is good news because they need to avoid doing any more harm for a while. I could see them trading for a defenseman but there are not a lot of forwards on the current roster I would be much interested in moving, including JVR.

Once the new CBA is in place, they can decide if they want to get rid of Bryz based upon how the rest of the season goes. It would be humiliating for them (and Bryz), but if there is no improvement between now and the end of the season and the new CBA allows for a one time buyout without a cap impact, they will have to take a hard look at it. I kind of doubt they would ever pull the trigger on that but who knows.

Edited January 10, 2012 by terp

[JackStraw]

@orange_crush - I didn't think the Flyers would be Cup contenders before the season started, and now I think they just might be. They've exceeded my expectations so far and I'm happy to pretty much let things ride as they are and see how the season turns out. This team can be frustrating at times but overall they are a lot of fun to watch, more so than any Flyers team in recent years. I would not even think about trading Jagr, I think he's adding a lot to the good chemistry the team has and is a good role model and mentor to some of they younger guys like JVR and Voracek (big guys with skill should be learning from one of the best big skilled guys ever). Jags looks like he's having a ton of fun and if he holds up I would definitely bring him back next year if he's interested.

[RonJeremy]

We will never make it out of the East with the defense and goaltending we have. The Bruins and Rangers are giving up a full goal less per game than we are. Part of it, is they have the 2 best goalies in the league, the other part is, they have a tight checking ,physical ,shutdown defense, which we do not. We have a very mobile defense, but they are prone to horrible give aways, and they allow too many people to bang in rebounds in front. When we play the Rangers we get one shot and not even a hint of a rebound, and once they build a lead they compeletely smother us. We need two more defensemen on this team, one to replace Pronger and one to replace Carle who wi;; be an UFA. We should try and build a strong defense , to offset our poor goaltending. If we can land a guy like Gleason or Beauchiman and then sign Webber or Suter, we will be set. Of course coming up with the cap space to pay them is gonna be a problem. Maybe we are stuck for this season with what we have, and in the offseason, if Pronger is done for good then we will know where we stand. We may also have to try and dump Briere, to free up some cap space.

[JackStraw]

I'll bite,

if there are no more injuries especially to the D-corps I sit tight this year and see what happens,

I look for a serviceable 4-6 defenseman at the trade deadline if i can get one without doing a whole lot of damage to the room i make a deal....I do not trade schenn , monoboy, read, unless the deal knocks my socks off.

then i go to the playoffs with what we've got & get these youngsters a taste of the tournament.

in the offseason

I find out what 20's situation is ... is he coming back will he retire ? once i have that answer, i throw chairman ed's money at shea weber, ryan suter, or pk subban. if they don't bite i throw less money at francois beauchamin and barrett jackman.

i think in a year bryzgalov has figured out what he will need to do to be a good goalie again, and in 2013 we will be a tough out/contender.

This.

[activestick]

Very true. I'd like Cooter to see more ice-time. Unlike JVR, he seems to make those around him better. Can't wait until he is our permanent 2nd line center....

Oh yeah. I agree 100%. I can't believe how smart and poised he is with the puck. It's really amazing for an 18 year old kid. Yeah, I'd like to see him get more minutes and play with more talented players.

JVR?? Maybe it's just me, but, I was expecting a whole lot more out a #2 overall pick. I thought he turned the corner in the playoffs last year. Now I'm back to not caring what happens to him. He's basically a time killer while the real threats take a breather.

[brelic]

Oh yeah. I agree 100%. I can't believe how smart and poised he is with the puck. It's really amazing for an 18 year old kid. Yeah, I'd like to see him get more minutes and play with more talented players.

JVR?? Maybe it's just me, but, I was expecting a whole lot more out a #2 overall pick. I thought he turned the corner in the playoffs last year. Now I'm back to not caring what happens to him. He's basically a time killer while the real threats take a breather.

I thought Turris looked better than him the other night

[orange_crush]

@orange_crush - I didn't think the Flyers would be Cup contenders before the season started, and now I think they just might be. They've exceeded my expectations so far and I'm happy to pretty much let things ride as they are and see how the season turns out. This team can be frustrating at times but overall they are a lot of fun to watch, more so than any Flyers team in recent years. I would not even think about trading Jagr, I think he's adding a lot to the good chemistry the team has and is a good role model and mentor to some of they younger guys like JVR and Voracek (big guys with skill should be learning from one of the best big skilled guys ever). Jags looks like he's having a ton of fun and if he holds up I would definitely bring him back next year if he's interested.

I agree the Flyers have been alot of fun to watch this year, but realistically there not cup contenders, therefor why not trade Jagr and get some picks/prospects before he leaves as a FA

[orange_crush]

@orange_crush

I don't believe they are. They are fine up front but they really miss Pronger's minutes. His absence will have the effect of wearing out the rest of the defensemen, especially Timonen and to a lesser extent Carle and Mezseros. I would also say that the Lilja signing isn't working out too well, so they have problems up and down the defense corps. Obviously, goaltending is a huge issue.

In terms of moves, I think they need to focus solely on the long term. Any expensive "tweaks" to make them a little better or a little more likely to make it out of the first round should be off limits. They are kind of limited given their cap situation and the uncertainty about Proner's future. I suspect he's done for good and his cap space opens up, but we'll see. The CBA expiration also diminishes the chance that they will do anything major. This is good news because they need to avoid doing any more harm for a while. I could see them trading for a defenseman but there are not a lot of forwards on the current roster I would be much interested in moving, including JVR.

Once the new CBA is in place, they can decide if they want to get rid of Bryz based upon how the rest of the season goes. It would be humiliating for them (and Bryz), but if there is no improvement between now and the end of the season and the new CBA allows for a one time buyout without a cap impact, they will have to take a hard look at it. I kind of doubt they would ever pull the trigger on that but who knows.

agreed