Koivu Out for Remainder of the Season

[CreaseAndAssist 450]

8 minutes ago, Hockey-78 said:

There is a God...! It's good for the team and the organization to see where we stand without him. The first step towards a rebuild direction.

 

And yeah, fill the void from within the organization. It would be both insane and hilarious if we were to go after some veteran C and give some picks/prospect in the trade.

 

 

 

It wouldn't be hilarious...it'd be sad, but the rest of what you said I agree with.  

[Villette/Lavaux 108]

I recall that the last time that Koivu was injured for a multi-game period, the Wild record was pretty much the same as with Koivu in the lineup, if it was not better.

 

When Dumba was announced injured for several month, It was "ouch, it's gonna hurt the team a lot".

When Koivu was announced injured for several month, I was thinking: "well ok, bad for him".

[IllaZilla 515]

Sounds like they're already screwing it up...moving Rask into Koivu's slot and Eriksson-Ek into the 3C...

[EmptyShelf 74]

I would hope that they don't mortgage even more of our future by trading picks for a temporary fill in.  Koivu is going to be EVEN slower when he comes back for what should be the last (abbreviated year) of his Wild tenure - Thank the Lord!  Rask still sucks....

[Villette/Lavaux 108]

16 hours ago, EmptyShelf said:

I would hope that they don't mortgage even more of our future by trading picks for a temporary fill in.  Koivu is going to be EVEN slower when he comes back for what should be the last (abbreviated year) of his Wild tenure - Thank the Lord!  Rask still sucks....

 

I hope so too. Please no more rental player à la Hanzal, Moulson or White and don't jeopardize the bank of picks even if we know that the Wild pretty much suck at drafting.

 

When it comes to the draft, I always put the main motto in the french classic movie "Les Bronzés": Just forget that you don't have any chance, go for it! On a misunderstanding, it can work!

[TropicalFruitGirl26 2,965]

23 minutes ago, Villette/Lavaux said:

 

I hope so too. Please no more rental player à la Hanzal, Moulson or White and don't jeopardize the bank of picks even if we know that the Wild pretty much suck at drafting.

 

When it comes to the draft, I always put the main motto in the french classic movie "Les Bronzés": Just forget that you don't have any chance, go for it! On a misunderstanding, it can work!

 

Well, at least this time around, we will have a different man doing the drafting (Fenton) as opposed the guy who had been drafting for us the last several years.

Will that make a difference in the kinds of players we get? I don't know.
But maybe with a new guy in the GM's seat, comes a new way of looking at the young talent in the draft, and maybe the draft goes better than before.

Of course, I WOULD like it even better if the Minnesota improved their draft board (they'd need to trade away some players to do so though), as right now, you can see, their board is pretty 'standard' with their own picks in Rounds 1-3, nothing in the 4th, and a late 5th from Washington.

I'd like to see them add an extra 2nd or even 3rd.... an extra 1st would be fantastic, but who would they have on the team that could get them that?

[EJ0226 79]

19 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

It wouldn't be hilarious...it'd be sad, but the rest of what you said I agree with.  

It wouldn't be sad either. It would be expected with this owner pulling the strings.

 

My thought when I heard of his injury, "that sucks for him and I feel for him as that could be it for his career. Sucks to go out like that but the team will continue to do what they have been doing with him without him now. Yea he wins faceoffs but the wins usually result in nothing happening anyways. He is a situational player in certain situations only. Dumba was a different beast as in Oooo **** we have a huge hole to fill. I don't think Koivu out will be near as big of a impact as the team and Wild media want you to believe.

 

 

[IllaZilla 515]

2 hours ago, Villette/Lavaux said:

 

I hope so too. Please no more rental player à la Hanzal, Moulson or White and don't jeopardize the bank of picks even if we know that the Wild pretty much suck at drafting.

 

When it comes to the draft, I always put the main motto in the french classic movie "Les Bronzés": Just forget that you don't have any chance, go for it! On a misunderstanding, it can work!

 

Actually they don't. They're not great at it, but they don't suck.

 

I'll have to dig it out but I made a spreadsheet comparing the Wild to the rest of the NHL as far a drafting goes. I used two parameters to declare a draft pick a "success", which was 100 NHL games played and 200 NHL games played. Wild.com used one NHL game as a measure of drafting success which put the Wild at like 45%. But then they were counting guys like Kris Focault a draft success because he played one game with the Wild.

 

The league average using those two parameters was about 17% if I remember right, and the Wild clocked in at 20%, I think.

 

And If I remember right Anaheim had some ungodly number like 28%.

 

It's on here somewhere, I just can't remember which thread...probably one about the entry draft this year...

[IllaZilla 515]

1 hour ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

I'd like to see them add an extra 2nd or even 3rd.... an extra 1st would be fantastic, but who would they have on the team that could get them that?

 

Maybe Granlund would garner a #1. He's 26, and under contract until 2020. But he does have a $5.7M cap hit, so there's that. But he's probably the only one.

 

And then you are trading away one of your best players, and the owner insisted he wasn't rebuilding the team. He hired Fenton because Fenton sold him on some five year Stanley Cup Plan...so trading away one of your best players doesn't really jive with that vision...

 

Maybe a third for Staal. Second if some GM is really desperate. Spurgeon might fetch something nice, but then you're depleting a depleted defensive corps. But both of them have a limited NTC (only 20 teams eligible for a trade).

 

Or maybe Fenton will trade everyone he can and make the team so terrible that Parise and Suter demand to be traded and we can start over with a clean slate...

[rottenrefs 511]

Just about every other time Mikko's been injured he doesn't even attend games. Why the Wild accommodate his every whim is beyond me. A class guy? Maybe so but where's the supportive loyalty for his teammates at the very least for home games?

 

IMO the Wild need to make some critical decisions over where the direction of this team needs to go in the next 2-10 years. The heck with where the team is headed right now with their proverbial band-aid fixes that never pan out. All the little moves they make are literally nothing more than minor distractions that enable them another short trip right out of the playoffs and further away from potential growth in their extended future.

 

The Wild better stop 'flipping a coin' (guessing) if a players' actual abilities are what they really are, or if they're nothing more than verbal dialog falling out of these players mouths (in this case Mikko's) explaining all the "what if's" and "we can do this" type possibilities that are often times based on their own imaginations, big dreams or wishes. And he's not alone either and it's not all on him.

 

They ether know how to bust their tails off or not. Results are in the win column not in glossed over optimistic press conferences.

 

Sad to say but Mikko was a very good player several years ago (never a first line center anyway) and this injury, well... He's not ever going to get back to even this years' form.

[Icechipper 50]

Russo on Barrerio said Granlund might be on his way out......

[hf101 2,872]

1 hour ago, rottenrefs said:

Just about every other time Mikko's been injured he doesn't even attend games. Why the Wild accommodate his every whim is beyond me. A class guy? Maybe so but where's the supportive loyalty for his teammates at the very least for home games?

 

I don't think that is odd at all.  Often injured players are not around the team.  Sometimes the injured are more of a distraction.

I believe Koivu's surgery was today.  So I wouldn't expect him to be around the team for some time.

[4Check 46]

42 minutes ago, Icechipper said:

Russo on Barrerio said Granlund might be on his way out......

Boudreau seemed at wit's end with Granlund in the post game. 2 goals in 37 games has me fearing Fenton would be trading low (see Nino trade).  

Edited February 9 by 4Check
addition

[IllaZilla 515]

32 minutes ago, 4Check said:

Boudreau seemed at wit's end with Granlund in the post game. 2 goals in 37 games has me fearing Fenton would be trading low (see Nino trade).  

I don’t know. Granlund is still more productive than Nino: 44 points to 30 points in the same number of games-54. Granlunds always been more of an assist guy anyways. Boudreau might just be playing head games with these guys too, trying to push buttons. 

[rottenrefs 511]

3 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

I don't think that is odd at all.  Often injured players are not around the team.  Sometimes the injured are more of a distraction.

I believe Koivu's surgery was today.  So I wouldn't expect him to be around the team for some time.

Yes, the surgery was supposed to be today.

What I'm talking about is weeks to whenever later being there in-person. He doesn't do it.

[ClusterChuck 77]

19 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

Maybe Granlund would garner a #1. He's 26, and under contract until 2020. But he does have a $5.7M cap hit, so there's that. But he's probably the only one.

 

And then you are trading away one of your best players, and the owner insisted he wasn't rebuilding the team. He hired Fenton because Fenton sold him on some five year Stanley Cup Plan...so trading away one of your best players doesn't really jive with that vision...

 

Maybe a third for Staal. Second if some GM is really desperate. Spurgeon might fetch something nice, but then you're depleting a depleted defensive corps. But both of them have a limited NTC (only 20 teams eligible for a trade).

 

Or maybe Fenton will trade everyone he can and make the team so terrible that Parise and Suter demand to be traded and we can start over with a clean slate...

And yet suddenly Fenton has a bunch of D to deal with. Hmmm.

 

Even tho I want to see Granlund shoot more, Imagine him and his ability to get the puck to players if he had a real finisher to work with.

I'd keep him just for that chance.

 

11 + 20 must know the day they whipped out their little John Henry's that they were here to stay, For better or worse.

Even if they demanded out, What team would or could pay their salary?  There's no NY Yankees in Hockey. Besides, Didn't they already go through that with Fletcher? Lol.

Maybe, Just maybe, 11 + 20 are forcing Fenton to become a Seller before trade deadline. They want a newer group to groom.

Parise is at least making it look good like he's trying to offset Suter's blatant dump.

 

 

 

[rottenrefs 511]

Here's a little thought to toss out there:

Names of players to trade? Granlund and/or Spurgeon (they have some value) and likely Spurgeon valued more to this team than Granlund, but Granlund is a Mikko fav. They already dealt Nino for basically nothing and as much as they love Coyle his trade value is in the sh!tter.

 

I almost want to see how this team can stand on just Parise, Suter and Koivu's shoulders over the next few years without the 'fringe players' (of which damn near every day we hear how these younger / developing guys need to step up) who've been carrying them these past 6 years. I want to see the three hero's in their own mind operate and perform without a supporting cast.

 

Every day we see blue chip caliber players stand out on other teams without a decent supporting cast - maybe it's time Wild fans and Wild media see exactly how 'regular to average' Mikko, Parise and Suter are on their own.

[EJ0226 79]

22 hours ago, rottenrefs said:

Here's a little thought to toss out there:

Names of players to trade? Granlund and/or Spurgeon (they have some value) and likely Spurgeon valued more to this team than Granlund, but Granlund is a Mikko fav. They already dealt Nino for basically nothing and as much as they love Coyle his trade value is in the sh!tter.

 

I almost want to see how this team can stand on just Parise, Suter and Koivu's shoulders over the next few years without the 'fringe players' (of which damn near every day we hear how these younger / developing guys need to step up) who've been carrying them these past 6 years. I want to see the three hero's in their own mind operate and perform without a supporting cast.

 

Every day we see blue chip caliber players stand out on other teams without a decent supporting cast - maybe it's time Wild fans and Wild media see exactly how 'regular to average' Mikko, Parise and Suter are on their own.

I feel for Granlund. He gets sh*tted on well guys like Coyle, Zucker and Staal (Still a fan of his) continue to do nothing. Granlund has pretty much been in top 3 for scoring for the Wild in the last 3 years.

Idk, just seems like only select players get called out when there is others performing just as bad if not worse then the called out player. Seems like the whole franchise is a "boys club" and only a select few are part of it well everybody else is a employee at the "boys club".

[Villette/Lavaux 108]

On 2/8/2019 at 1:21 PM, IllaZilla said:

 

Actually they don't. They're not great at it, but they don't suck.

 

I'll have to dig it out but I made a spreadsheet comparing the Wild to the rest of the NHL as far a drafting goes. I used two parameters to declare a draft pick a "success", which was 100 NHL games played and 200 NHL games played. Wild.com used one NHL game as a measure of drafting success which put the Wild at like 45%. But then they were counting guys like Kris Focault a draft success because he played one game with the Wild.

 

The league average using those two parameters was about 17% if I remember right, and the Wild clocked in at 20%, I think.

 

And If I remember right Anaheim had some ungodly number like 28%.

 

It's on here somewhere, I just can't remember which thread...probably one about the entry draft this year...

 

With this perspective, I have to agree. Maybe suck was a strong word; it also depends on how you define a fail or a success, and of course, you tend to lose objectivity when it comes to the Wild.

 

I would say, for example, that Leddy was a fail. Not because the pick was not good, but we lost it with the terrible Barker deal back in the time, as Leddy proved to be a legit top-4 defender (however, it seems that he has slowed down a little this year).

 

Drafting is like trading: you always look smarter after a long period when you get the final result.

[Villette/Lavaux 108]

As for today when it comes to a trade, I would say nobody is safe except these two: Dumba & Spurgeon.

[IllaZilla 515]

23 minutes ago, Villette/Lavaux said:

 

With this perspective, I have to agree. Maybe suck was a strong word; it also depends on how you define a fail or a success, and of course, you tend to lose objectivity when it comes to the Wild.

 

I would say, for example, that Leddy was a fail. Not because the pick was not good, but we lost it with the terrible Barker deal back in the time, as Leddy proved to be a legit top-4 defender (however, it seems that he has slowed down a little this year).

 

Drafting is like trading: you always look smarter after a long period when you get the final result.

 

I was strictly looking at games played in the NHL, not if the player was still with the team.

 

It's the job of the scouts to find players that have a good chance of turning into NHLers. They have no control over whether or not a GM will keep them on the team long enough for them to pan out.

 

As far as Leddy, that was a GM fail in thinking he had to include Leddy in the trade for Barker, rather than than the scouts picking the wrong player. A scouting failure would be more like AJ Thelen or Zach Phillips. Both were first round draft picks and neither guy ever played in the NHL.

[Villette/Lavaux 108]

2 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

As far as Leddy, that was a GM fail in thinking he had to include Leddy in the trade for Barker, rather than than the scouts picking the wrong player. A scouting failure would be more like AJ Thelen or Zach Phillips. Both were first round draft picks and neither guy ever played in the NHL.

 

Absolutely.

 

I would say that in 1st and 2nd round, it's basically the scouts' skills that are in the balance. From round 3, it's more a guess. Bakc in the days, who would imagine that Zetterberg or Hasek would have had the careers they had...

 

But maybe I'm wrong.

[IllaZilla 515]

2 hours ago, Villette/Lavaux said:

 

Absolutely.

 

I would say that in 1st and 2nd round, it's basically the scouts' skills that are in the balance. From round 3, it's more a guess. Bakc in the days, who would imagine that Zetterberg or Hasek would have had the careers they had...

 

But maybe I'm wrong.

Well, it’s not a zero chance, but using that 100 or 200 game parameter, only 13% of all the players picked in rounds 4-7 turned into NHLers. Guys like Zetterberg and Hasek are more the exceptions than the rule. 

Thats why I always have to take a step back when I see a GM throw in a fifth or sixth round pick. At first I’m like “Great, give up another draft pick.” But then I realize that pick is more than likely going to turn into nothing. And then it’s not a big deal. 

[Icechipper 50]

Could have used a defensive center tonight 

[EJ0226 79]

22 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

I was strictly looking at games played in the NHL, not if the player was still with the team.

 

It's the job of the scouts to find players that have a good chance of turning into NHLers. They have no control over whether or not a GM will keep them on the team long enough for them to pan out.

 

As far as Leddy, that was a GM fail in thinking he had to include Leddy in the trade for Barker, rather than than the scouts picking the wrong player. A scouting failure would be more like AJ Thelen or Zach Phillips. Both were first round draft picks and neither guy ever played in the NHL.

 

Are you including guys that the Wild traded before those players hit the 100 or 200 game mark?

I think why everybody says our drafting sucks is between these reasons:
1. No Superstar or game/franchise changer has been drafted since Gaborik and Burns.

2. Most of the good drafts sit high in our line up that would otherwise be 3rd or 4th liner guys on other teams.

3. This is more or less because the team doesn't know how to use the players and their skill sets but we see so many players not do much here and get traded to other teams where they become very good talent. Haula, Tuch and Nino are latest examples. Nino has 6 goals in 11 games with the Canes. He had 9 goals in 46 games with us. Hell we even don't bother to communicate with possible our best prospect ever and he figures we want nothing to do with him so he stays in Russia.

If we just based "success" off of games played then, yes the Wild are good at drafting. If we actually look deeper into it and how the Wild actually use the player and their skill set the Wild are horrible.

My belief is that the next guy we trade will find better success elsewhere. I think between building a team around a very flawed core, not having coaches either coach a players talent out and improve them or coaches that force players to play a different skill set that they don't have, below average scouts, and atmosphere that doesn't seem to help out struggling players unless they are the core and you got a mess of drafting.