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Flyers call up Phil Myers...what's next...


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24 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well can't say without knowing what it is.

 

I by no means meant to imply it was impossible.  

 

I started by saying I'm just not up enough to know.  Maybe the Preds or Sharks or Lightning have some kid in Juniors who looks better than Frost.  That's the kind of thing I mean.  

 

I guess there's always the prospect of the Preds sending Subban over in which case, Mac, Gudas and Hagg and all have a seat.

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2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I must have missed that.

 

However I do not see the Preds moving him for those two.

 

However give Eeli Tolvanen, Frederic Allard and a 1st and I do that trade.

 

Bring it.  

 

Side note:  Ghost only played 11:24 last night (though he did get 2 assists).

                    Sanheim played 24:45 (also had 2 assists).

 

The more we talk about it and the more they play, the writing is kind of on the wall.  

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Dear god. 

 

Don't trade Ghost. His value is low, and his contract is more than manageable. You're not going to get anything approaching value, and the screaming when he's back to what he was last year will be maddening. Let him hang out with Hart's sports psychiatrist. See if you can fix him in the offseason.

 

Especially don't trade him for an expiring UFA. 

 

Isn't this what we bitched about Homer and Clarke doing? Giving up on young players after one disappointing season? 

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3 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Dear god. 

 

Don't trade Ghost. His value is low, and his contract is more than manageable. You're not going to get anything approaching value, and the screaming when he's back to what he was last year will be maddening. Let him hang out with Hart's sports psychiatrist. See if you can fix him in the offseason.

 

Especially don't trade him for an expiring UFA. 

 

Isn't this what we bitched about Homer and Clarke doing? Giving up on young players after one disappointing season? 

 

I tend to agree, and would prefer not trading Ghost. I think he's the kind of guy that, when on his game, is a game-breaker. He's been that guy in two seasons, and he's been a dud in two others. This year in particular is bad. He just looks completely lost. 

 

But I think he can find his game again, and maybe part of that is adjusting his ice time / role similar to what Gordon did last night. 11 minutes of TOI might be a bit low, but somewhere in the 14-15 range as a #4/#5 defenseman and PP specialist might be better use of his strengths. 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Dear god. 

 

Don't trade Ghost. His value is low, and his contract is more than manageable. You're not going to get anything approaching value, and the screaming when he's back to what he was last year will be maddening. Let him hang out with Hart's sports psychiatrist. See if you can fix him in the offseason.

 

Especially don't trade him for an expiring UFA. 

 

Isn't this what we bitched about Homer and Clarke doing? Giving up on young players after one disappointing season? 

 

Fantastic post! I didn't really have strong opinions on the matter, but do now. Don't sell low on players. Ever. Cut bait only when it's clear that the bait needs to be cut. Not a minute before.

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53 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Don't trade Ghost. His value is low, and his contract is more than manageable. You're not going to get anything approaching value, and the screaming when he's back to what he was last year will be maddening. Let him hang out with Hart's sports psychiatrist. See if you can fix him in the offseason.

 

Especially don't trade him for an expiring UFA. 

 

Isn't this what we bitched about Homer and Clarke doing? Giving up on young players after one disappointing season? 

Don't think anyone is suggesting to dump Ghost for anything less than good value, and certainly not solely for an expiring UFA.  I hope Fletcher is smart enough to avoid all that.  But, I do think it's reasonable for them to entertain offers for (and maybe even shop) Ghost to see if the potential return would address other needs (and not on a stop-gap basis).

 

 

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15 hours ago, radoran said:

 

I agree with much of your post. I just don't go along with the idea that he was always going to be hitting on 1 out of 10 shots throughout his career.

 

Also how his rookie numbers were inflated by 3 on 3 overtime play.

 

You mentioned competing with McDavid and Panarin for ROY. I would take either of them 11 out of 10 times over Ghost. And no one in their right minds would trade either of them for Ghost straight up.

 

Ghost is a 60 point defenseman with liabilities in his own end. That's what he is. What he's been. And likely what he always will be.

 

He's not at all a Karlsson or a Burns. Not sure he's even a Byfuglien.

 

I would ship him to Ottawa for Stone in a heartbeat.

 

And that has nothing at all to do with Hakstol.

 

It's got all to do with Ghost. And, of course, Sanheim and Myers in the pipeline.

 

8 minutes ago, vis said:

Don't think anyone is suggesting to dump Ghost for anything less than good value, and certainly not solely for an expiring UFA.  I hope Fletcher is smart enough to avoid all that.  But, I do think it's reasonable for them to entertain offers for (and maybe even shop) Ghost to see if the potential return would address other needs (and not on a stop-gap basis).

 

 

 

Yes, in fact, they are.

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  • brelic changed the title to Flyers call up Phil Myers...what's next...
1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

 

 

Yes, in fact, they are.

Ok.  One person, which I didn't see.  At the risk of speaking for @radoran, I wonder if he meant to add a caveat that Stone reasonably assure the Flyers that he'd sign long term with them.  If not, then I wouldn't make that deal.

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49 minutes ago, vis said:

Ok.  One person, which I didn't see.  At the risk of speaking for @radoran, I wonder if he meant to add a caveat that Stone reasonably assure the Flyers that he'd sign long term with them.  If not, then I wouldn't make that deal.

 I I wouldn't do it even then, a 65 point defenceman is worth more than a Winger that scores roughly the same amount

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53 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 I I wouldn't do it even then, a 65 point defenceman is worth more than a Winger that scores roughly the same amount

Honestly, not sure I would either.  But, you have to manage assets and balance your team.  Flyers seem to have a number of solid, young d-men in the fold.  Wing strikes me as an area of weakness, especially if Simmonds is traded.  Also, that d-man scored 65 points in one season and hasn't been close before that or this year.  He is also a defensive liability.

 

Let me be clear, though.  I'm not saying they should trade Ghost.  Just that he's not untouchable.  I would trade him for a good package of players, which, to me is TBD.  I would not have to be bowled over by an insane offer.  Frankly, I'd prefer to see him stay on the team and hope he clears his head and gets his game back over summer.  See where things stand at the beginning of the season.  That said, I'm not going to fault the team if they deal him and get good value for him.

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Ghost has not been able to get any clear shots at the net like he did in the past, even on the PP. The Flyers passing on the PP has never been precise it's kind of slow and predictable and Ghost rarely has an open shooting lane. Alot of his shots are being blocked and he is forcing shots that are just not there and when he finally gets an open shot, he rushes it. The other teams have him figured out and are keying on him. Maybe if Meyers is teamed with Ghost on the PP and you have two good point shots to contend with Ghost might get some space. One thing for sure is our PP is very predictable and many of the passes are telegraphed .

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7 hours ago, King Knut said:

This is the entire thesis behind what I'm saying. 

 

I do think he needs to "get his groove back". I think part of the problem is the general disarray of the defense for much of the season. They have a lot of nice parts and Andrew MacDonald but they haven't paired out well, for whatever reason.

 

There have been overtime games this season - yes. But they've been overtime games with a parade of second- and third-rate goaltenders who really shattered the confidence of much of the team.

 

7 hours ago, King Knut said:

And I believe that's because for the past several years if he'd done that, he'd have feared being slapped into the press box.

 

He played 78 games last season. 76 the season before. If that happened, it didn't happen very often. I don't blame a coach for wanting effective defence out of his defencemen, especially in front of subpar goaltending.

 

I think there may be a few giveaways this year that turned into goals that weigh on him even if it really reflected more upon the guy between the pipes - whichever one it was.

 

Something that struck me looking at the top line stats here: https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/g/gostish01.html

 

Is that his TOI is right in line with his career average. His Corsi is pretty much the same as his career average. But his offensive zone starts are down over 5% on his career average. That, along with not anticipating 11% shooting, has most likely had an effect.

 

Ghost strikes me as the guy who - befitting his moniker - can get "lost" in the swirl and then take advantage. But he needs to have the confidence for that - and I'm not at all saying Hakstol wasn't "a" problem. And he needs to have the opportunity for that to take place.

 

Put the overall malaise of the team - something for which Hakstol can be held culpable - on top of that and he's just simply having a bad year. He doesn't appear to have anything physically wrong, so giving up on him would be silly. Getting something we would consider "value" is something else entirely.

 

7 hours ago, King Knut said:

for some reason I still kinda blame JVR's college years for his developmental delays.  Not sure why I think that though.  Just a hunch.  

 

Because you don't like college players. I'll give you a pass because it's New Hamster. **** those upside down ********. 👺

 

7 hours ago, King Knut said:

That kinda scares me because I'm not sure what a competitive team is going to give up in usable assets that they won't already be using. 

 

It would be something akin to their Gostisbehere or Konecny. 🤗

 

7 hours ago, King Knut said:

I'm not familiar with who drafted who when and that's still in Juniors or abroad and killing it there to think there's a good option in that direction, but I guess that's the most feasible alternative to draft picks that has potential to work.  

 

What you're hoping for is to find a not-yet-emerged Teuvo Teravainen or Justin Williams. And maybe a pick here or there.

 

I'd go in on a Simmonds for Puljujarvi trade, for example, but, then, I'm me*.

 

 

* SUOMI! 🇫🇮

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2 hours ago, AJgoal said:

 I I wouldn't do it even then, a 65 point defenceman is worth more than a Winger that scores roughly the same amount

 

Well, "heartbeat" might have been hyperbolic, let's say if they were the two main pieces. But other things were involved. And, as @vis, added, you were going to re-sign Stone.

 

This is also looking at Sanheim and then Myers as potential 60-point defencemen in the league. There's only so many pucks on the ice and so much power play time.

 

And the Flyers can certainly use some proven, productive top six help. When they finally started using JVR as the first line scoring forward he is, his production went up dramatically. Putting Stone with an actual center? That's something that could work out very well.

 

I'll grant you this is more of a "win now" sort of move - with "now" being defined as the next 2-4 years ("down from 3-5!") and being around the current core minus probabmaybe Simmonds.

 

But it seems that's the mindset in the organizayshun.

 

 

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15 hours ago, radoran said:

I don't blame a coach for wanting effective defence out of his defencemen, especially in front of subpar goaltending.

 

I kinda do.  It just showed a lack of creativity or confidence in defending the modern NHL game.

 

Hak liked his D men to pinch once in a while, but unfortunately only in completely predictable situations.  Reason likely being that when Ghost would do his Ghost thing (which I hesitate to call pinching) no one knew how to defend it or react to it at all, and that often included Ghost's own team mates... so no one could cover for him while he was out of position.  But rather than working with that and drawing up some basic scenario coverage for the REST of the guys on the ice to allow Ghost to make the magic happen, Hak simply removed the problem by limiting what Ghost would do.  

 

15 hours ago, radoran said:

 

There have been overtime games this season - yes. But they've been overtime games with a parade of second- and third-rate goaltenders who really shattered the confidence of much of the team.

 

 

Once again, this is an instance of Hakstol's basic philosophy of "Try not to lose" instead of "Try to win."  I think it's been ineffective for this team and it herds them all (especially guys like Ghost, Sanheim, TK and Patty) away from their natural skill sets and makes them less dangerous and makes the fans think they're boring and untalented.  

 

That's an interesting note about the Offensive Zone starts.  

 

15 hours ago, radoran said:

 

 

Because you don't like college players. I'll give you a pass because it's New Hamster. **** those upside down ********. 👺

 

 

Maybe I do have a bias against College players.  I think if I'm honest my opinion is that college is better for guys that are late bloomers and role players.  Most skilled, faster guys and goalies should probably be in Juniors facing more intense competition.

 

I remember being annoyed with JVR for eschewing the Flyers in favor of another year of college.  

I remember thinking something similar about Allison (but he's also dealth with injuries).  

But I liked JVR when he finally came up.  I defended him a lot back then because I think most of the criticism he got was based on losing out on Kane and then losing in the Finals to him.  JVR's game was just different and the team had no time to develop him because they were all in on the cup or bust philosophy.  Of course if he'd come up a year sooner, they could have started sooner.

 

I like plenty of college players.  I still think Vecchione would have done much better for the Flyers these past two years than Lehtera.  

 

15 hours ago, radoran said:

 

What you're hoping for is to find a not-yet-emerged Teuvo Teravainen or Justin Williams. And maybe a pick here or there.

 

 

Justin Williams...  a man who literally just needed to have Ken Hitchcock taken out of his life to thrive.  I remember watching those games (especially during the 2004 run) and just thinking, DAMN IT, CUT HIM OFF THE LEASH HITCH WE NEED TO SCORE!!!!

 

As far as Simmonds goes, as mad at Hextall as I still am about Hakstol, Reese and smaller things like Vecchione vs. Lehtera, I'm still in the camp of not throwing the baby of his philosophy out with the bath water and because of the cap room we now have (thanks most to hextall's efforts and the passage of time) Fletcher has the freedom to take picks and prospects for Simmonds AND replace him with the likes of Stone or Panarin in free agency... and that's the route I'd go.  

 

I would however just insist that he get a better return than he has for any of the gristle he's traded away so far.  These were cosmetic moves to make it look like he was doing something to Homer and (probably more so for) Scott.  He traded players that were almost exclusively out the door anyway for players that are never likely to hit the NHL.   Thanks to Gordon not being stupid as Hakstol and more or less refusing to play them, Fletcher knew they wouldn't do any worse without those players, so he could pull the trigger.  Doesn't accomplish much.  They were all out anyway and what we got back is almost certainly never going to make an impact.  Does make it look like he's doing more than Hextall however.  

 

Now though, he actually has to get something back for the next trades.  It'll be interesting to see what he can come up with.  

 

And then it'll be interesting to see how much he has to shell out for Stone or Panarin... because that's where his off season focus should surely lie.

 

He could also have fun run for Tyler myers, but at that point he'll also have to waive or trade MacDonald and likely Gudas. 

 

If that's his goal, he might as well try to trade Gudas now.  I assume no one wants MacDonald, but the way he's been playing is showing he's not as terrible as he looked under Hakstol (boy that sounds familiar).

 

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2 hours ago, King Knut said:

Most skilled, faster guys and goalies should probably be in Juniors facing more intense competition.

 

I think you're starting to see more guys - Eichel, for example - who don't want to go through the whole Junior process of shipping off to live with a host family in Moose Jaw. Or something. There are more guys coming out of the NCAA - certainly not to the extent of Juniors, but not insignificant.

 

Which raises the level of competition in general. Again, still a long way to go.

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

I like plenty of college players. 

 

My two favorite players ever are JLC and MSL. That may have something to do with UVM. 🤗

 

OK, those are my two favorite skaters. Parent will likely always be #1 overall.

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

I still think Vecchione would have done much better for the Flyers these past two years than Lehtera.

 

Even the Finnophile I am would have bought out or found some way to ditch Lehterrable. That said, if you told me I had to have Lehterrable on the roster for two years to get Frost and Farabee, I wouldn't have thought twice about Vecchione.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, radoran said:

who don't want to go through the whole Junior process of shipping off to live with a host family in Moose Jaw

 

Hey now! Have you even been to Moose Jaw??

 

I have, and let me tell you, .... nah, you're right. I didn't even want to gas up there. Just see how far I can roll on fumes.

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1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

Hey now! Have you even been to Moose Jaw??

 

I have, and let me tell you, .... nah, you're right. I didn't even want to gas up there. Just see how far I can roll on fumes.

 

Could be worse. Could be Durham, NH...

 

👺

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4 hours ago, radoran said:

 

I think you're starting to see more guys - Eichel, for example - who don't want to go through the whole Junior process of shipping off to live with a host family in Moose Jaw. Or something. There are more guys coming out of the NCAA - certainly not to the extent of Juniors, but not insignificant.

 

Which raises the level of competition in general. Again, still a long way to go.

 

 

My two favorite players ever are JLC and MSL. That may have something to do with UVM. 🤗

 

OK, those are my two favorite skaters. Parent will likely always be #1 overall.

 

 

Even the Finnophile I am would have bought out or found some way to ditch Lehterrable. That said, if you told me I had to have Lehterrable on the roster for two years to get Frost and Farabee, I wouldn't have thought twice about Vecchione.

 

 

They kinda had to keep him at first just because it would have been a dangerous waste of cap space to waive him the first year when things were still so tight in that department. 

 

This year however... it’s one thing to give Hakstol a bad player, but when he repeatedly uses him every night when he doesn’t have to... not only that but uses him in key situations that end up costing games...

 

this is is why I get mad at Hextall.  Your coach puts out a guy you know is going to fail instead of a kid who might fail, BUT learn from it and get better... it’s just not smart when you’re trying to develop the team for tomorrow,  not today. 

 

If Lehtera was even remotely arguably effective, there’d be an argument.  He wasn’t. 

 

Also, how many times did Lehtera have to fail before it sunk in?  He shouldn’t be out there on the PK or on a dozen draw inside 2 minutes left or with the goalie pulled.  

 

But Hak kept doing it. 

 

So I don’t care that hextall didn’t waive him sooner, but I  DO care that he didn’t observe the salient points about Hakstol Lehtera made obvious.  He should have put him on the Phantoms and told Hak the slow joke is for emergency purposes only.  

 

I still believe that Hextall probably thought he wasn’t on the hot seat at all and was just planning to replace Hak at the end of the season because he thought he had a long leash.  I can’t fathom anyone being that dumb as to think Hak was going to suddenly turn a corner and start making good calls.  

 

should have done it this past off season. I’d have preferred two years ago, but whatever.  

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

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@King Knut

 

We don't disagree about Hakstol. Or on Hextall's bizarre attachment to him.

 

And, again, even as probably the board's biggest non-Finn Finnophile, i would have gotten rid of him.

 

That said, Hextall was on a five year plan with the backing of the organization. Until he wasn't.

 

We'll be reaping the benefits of Hextall replacing Holmgren for years.

 

Unless Holmgren screws it up.

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9 hours ago, radoran said:

Until he wasn't.

 

That was because in year 4 once again we weren't seeing any progress....all Ron had to do was fire Hak and he would still be employed i think...Ron's ego got the best of him...like with not wanting to cut bait with Weise and Weal if he waived them then i would be like admitting he made a mistake and Ron does not like admitting he makes mistakes.

 

And as we said earlier all this crap story about him being a meanie in the front office would have been kept under wraps if he was the GM but since they cut bait they put the story out to make them look like the good guys.

 

Had the Flyers been winning Hak and Hextall would still be here. Winning is all they want it seems because that leads to $$$$$$!!!

 

Anyways with hindsight and Weise and Weal gone along with Hart between the pipes i am glad it went down.

 

But Hextall had to give a nice parting gift with JVR's contract before he left.

 

I believe if JVR doesn't play well next year he will be dealt at or before next year's trade deadline...Chuck didn't sign him.

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On 2/13/2019 at 12:46 PM, AJgoal said:

Dear god. 

 

Don't trade Ghost. His value is low, and his contract is more than manageable. You're not going to get anything approaching value, and the screaming when he's back to what he was last year will be maddening. Let him hang out with Hart's sports psychiatrist. See if you can fix him in the offseason.

 

Especially don't trade him for an expiring UFA. 

 

Isn't this what we bitched about Homer and Clarke doing? Giving up on young players after one disappointing season? 

 

Just to piggy back on what you said i agree. It seems around here guys pile on poor little Ghost while giving Sanheim a free ride on his many issues when it comes to playing actual defense (me not being one...i try to point it out the kid has a lot to be desired when it comes to defense).

 

But let's change gears to put this into perspective. Because i have seen some mention that Ghost was 23 and all that crap when he started in the NHL like that is a big deal since he was in college but that is another argument.

 

So Ghost will be turning 26 in April and Sanheim 23 in March.

 

So let's compare their 23 year old seasons just for comparisons. 

 

Ghost 64 games played 17 goals 29 assist 48 points +8.

 

Sanheim 57 games played 5 goals 16 assist  21 points -2 so far this year. Nowhere close to Ghost first year.

 

Not even half the production.

 

So when you look at both of them needing to work on their defense it's clear right now that Sanheim's game to me that Travis can't hold a candle to what Ghost can bring to the game. Now will Ghost ever get back there???

 

I would think so maybe by next year.

 

But let's look at Ivan to he had a rocky start this year too and has looked to have rebounded. So no reason to think Ghost can't.

 

So in that light that if i move it would have to be for a huge return. No harm in listening to offers.

 

Just my thoughts on some of this Travis has about 6 inches on Shayne but by their play you can't tell Sanheim is very weak and Ghost all though not a smart move sometimes he isn't scared to mix it up and get physical when he has too....i have yet to see that evolve in Sanheim's game.

 

And Travis will never be the physical D man type but there are times when he needs to use his huge frame better to box guys out some more. I have hope that will come around.

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26 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Comments from Gordon on Myers playing...

 

HHHhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

 

DzY9eSGX4AEnHAE.png

 

 

DzY9qioXcAABD10.png

 

That's a lot of words to say "Trade is coming. Quit askin' questions or you'll ruin it!"

 

 

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