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hf101

Flyers call up Phil Myers...what's next...

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21 hours ago, King Knut said:

Sadly, Ghost actually hasn't been doing very well during the streak. I love the player, he's just not playing like himself these past two years (as noted elsewhere, I completely blame Hakstol) and it makes me very sad.  

I don't think Hakstol deserves "complete" blame.  Ghost had a very good year last year and a good rookie campaign under Hakstol.  This year and the year before last, not so much.  If Hakstol gets complete blame for the bad years, does he get complete credit for the good years?  Also, after Hakstol was fired, Provorov and Sanheim have played much better.  But Ghost has not shown improvement.  I'm not banging the drum to trade Ghost, nor am I defending Hakstol.  But I think the rise of Sanheim and now possibly Myers gives the Flyers some flexibility to trade Ghost.  I think Ghost is who he is - a great offensive d-man who struggles in his own zone.  If he's not getting it done offensively, it's extremely difficult to look past his defensive shortcomings.

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I know it's not a Justin Bailey thread but he was called up soon after Myers so just as good a place as any yo put this...

 

How Danny Briere played a role in Justin Bailey making the NHL

 

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A good story regardless. Enjoy.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I know it's not a Justin Bailey thread but he was called up soon after Myers so just as good a place as any yo put this...

 

How Danny Briere played a role in Justin Bailey making the NHL

 

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A good story regardless. Enjoy.

 

 

 

 A Simmonds replacement?  Looks like that might be Fletcher's thinking after reading that article.

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1 minute ago, hf101 said:

 

 A Simmonds replacement?  Looks like that might be Fletcher's thinking after reading that article.

 

Ya never know.

 

I would sit  Sanheim and Vorobyev and insert Myers and Bailey.

 

Let both the kids watch a game or two.

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2 hours ago, radoran said:

 

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i thought someone here may have known already wise ass

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1 minute ago, Hockey Junkie said:

i thought someone here may have known already wise ass

 

For future reference on the front page of this website I have on the right sidebar at the top,  a trade deadline tracker as to how many days remain until the deadline.

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50 minutes ago, hf101 said:

 

For future reference on the front page of this website I have on the right sidebar at the top,  a trade deadline tracker as to how many days remain until the deadline.

 

There's also, you know, Google and the ENTIRETY of the internet at our disposals. 


Feels like one of those RTFM moments from old linux boards.

 

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22 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

There's also, you know, Google and the ENTIRETY of the internet at our disposals. 


Feels like one of those RTFM moments from old linux boards.

 

 

Rick using google... 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Rick using google... 

 

 

Don't you mean Miller?

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4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Huh?

You mean you haven't heard of the search engine Miller?:ph34r:

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14 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

You mean you haven't heard of the search engine Miller?:ph34r:

 

No it must only work in California....

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5 hours ago, brelic said:

Feels like one of those RTFM moments from old linux boards.

 

Or a LMGTFY moment...

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6 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

For future reference on the front page of this website I have on the right sidebar at the top,  a trade deadline tracker as to how many days remain until the deadline.

Thanks for that HF101

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7 hours ago, vis said:

I don't think Hakstol deserves "complete" blame.  Ghost had a very good year last year and a good rookie campaign under Hakstol.  This year and the year before last, not so much.  If Hakstol gets complete blame for the bad years, does he get complete credit for the good years?  Also, after Hakstol was fired, Provorov and Sanheim have played much better.  But Ghost has not shown improvement.  I'm not banging the drum to trade Ghost, nor am I defending Hakstol.  But I think the rise of Sanheim and now possibly Myers gives the Flyers some flexibility to trade Ghost.  I think Ghost is who he is - a great offensive d-man who struggles in his own zone.  If he's not getting it done offensively, it's extremely difficult to look past his defensive shortcomings.

 

100%of blame is of course not realistic.  However, Ghost has never looked or played like he did in his first half season when he threatened McDavid and Panarin for the Calder.  The next season he (and G) were both recovering from that abdominal surgery, and Hakstol really started putting the screws to him as far as not skating or stick handling too much (involved benchings and lowered minutes).   Ghost managed to bounce back (as did G) but he still never played like his old self and hasn't since.  He managed to score a bunch of points anyway last year, but frankly neither he nor Provo have looked even like their last year selves this year.  Provo has looked better more recently (until the Penguins game), but Ghost has not managed a similar turn around.  

 

Most of this season so far whenever someone would say something like, "they're just not a talented team" I would usually chime in with something like, "They look confused.  It's not that they can't do it, it's that they don't know how to do it and when they try to do what they've been coached to do, they get burned."  Ghost was perhaps most affected by this.  He was trying to do what he was coached to do and it just wasn't working at all.

 

Much of the team is bouncing out of that now, but Ghost is one key component that isn't.  This is why I fear Hakstol may have screwed with his game and that screwed with his head too much.  I almost just want him to go play pond hockey with a bunch of kids all summer (ok, not on an actual pond) just to remind himself who he is and how his brain understands the game.  Maybe spend some time with Hart's shrink (who's probably working overtime after the Penguins game) and do some meditation.  Get out of his head a little bit and hopefully get Hakstol out of it too.  

 

 

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12 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Ghost has never looked or played like he did in his first half season when he threatened McDavid and Panarin for the Calder. 

 

He played more TOI, had a better PPG than his first season, and had a career high in points last year. His power play and even strength production was basically 50/50.

 

What metrics are you using to evaluate?

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56 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Thanks for that HF101

 

You are welcome but it has been there for the last month.  lol

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1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

He played more TOI, had a better PPG than his first season, and had a career high in points last year. His power play and even strength production was basically 50/50.

 

What metrics are you using to evaluate?

 

I said he never looked or played the same, not that he didn't have a good year numbers wise.

 

Fact is, the chances are good that with the same opportunities and ice time, Sanheim & Myers could potentially put up similar numebers in that role.  Putting up assists from the point is great, but there are a lot of players who can do that.  There are very few who can skate through the neutral zone and confound the living poop out of the opposition the way Ghost was able to do in his first half season.  It's why he was so effective at those heroic last minute game winning goals, because he'd put the entire defense on their heels and spinning, creating all kinds of space.  They were just beginning to figure out what that could potentially do for the offense and because he got caught out of position a few times and Hakstol hadn't sorted out how to cover for him, they put the kybosh on Ghost being Ghost.  That's what I mean.  

 

Frankly, Ghost's shot from the point hasn't looked the same since then either which is why I believe Provo outscored him and why he's putting up more assists now... but that could be a result of the abdominal surgery, who knows?  

 

I'm not saying that Ghost can't put up numbers.  I'm saying that if he's going to play the way he's playing to put up those numbers, they might as well trade him and use Sanheim, Provo & Myers in that role instead.  There's literally nothing "special" about the way Ghost plays right now and when he burst into the league he was very special.  They have others who can probably do what he's doing and that makes him expendable.  I'd prefer to see him do what he used to do AND have Myers and Sanheim doing what he's doing now... but I'm greedy I guess.  

 

 

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13 minutes ago, King Knut said:

There's literally nothing "special" about the way Ghost plays right now and when he burst into the league he was very special. 

 

I agree with much of your post. I just don't go along with the idea that he was always going to be hitting on 1 out of 10 shots throughout his career.

 

Also how his rookie numbers were inflated by 3 on 3 overtime play.

 

You mentioned competing with McDavid and Panarin for ROY. I would take either of them 11 out of 10 times over Ghost. And no one in their right minds would trade either of them for Ghost straight up.

 

Ghost is a 60 point defenseman with liabilities in his own end. That's what he is. What he's been. And likely what he always will be.

 

He's not at all a Karlsson or a Burns. Not sure he's even a Byfuglien.

 

I would ship him to Ottawa for Stone in a heartbeat.

 

And that has nothing at all to do with Hakstol.

 

It's got all to do with Ghost. And, of course, Sanheim and Myers in the pipeline.

Edited by radoran

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3 hours ago, radoran said:

 

I agree with much of your post. I just don't go along with the idea that he was always going to be hitting on 1 out of 10 shots throughout his career.

 

Also how his rookie numbers were inflated by 3 on 3 overtime play.

 

 

They've been to OT a few times since his rookie year.  Numbers there haven't been the same.  

 

3 hours ago, radoran said:

 

You mentioned competing with McDavid and Panarin for ROY. I would take either of them 11 out of 10 times over Ghost. And no one in their right minds would trade either of them for Ghost straight up.

 

 

To be fair, it was only not a runaway for McDavid because Manning shortened his season so dramatically.

I would trade Ghost for either too... but I don't think we SHOULD feel that way.  If Ghost had just spent two years getting better at two way coverage but maintaining or enhancing his dynamic offensive playmaking skills, he'd be a Norris favorite every year and of of the most desirable players in the league.  

 

3 hours ago, radoran said:

Ghost is a 60 point defenseman with liabilities in his own end. That's what he is. What he's been. And likely what he always will be.

 

Don't know that I disagree with that but I also don't think he is what he SHOULD or COULD have been.

 

3 hours ago, radoran said:

 

He's not at all a Karlsson or a Burns. Not sure he's even a Byfuglien.

 

 

No, he's Ghost and that's a different beast with different potential.  The closest he could have been to was Karlsson who is the only one of the above with the ability to completely change the complexion of the game completely by himself with the puck on his stick.  The major difference is size and Karlsson's obviously much better in his own end.  Ghost was never going to get bigger, but he could have worked on adding defense without dulling his own dynamic skill set.

 

3 hours ago, radoran said:

 

I would ship him to Ottawa for Stone in a heartbeat.

 

And that has nothing at all to do with Hakstol.

 

It's got all to do with Ghost. And, of course, Sanheim and Myers in the pipeline.

 

I would ship him out for Stone too... but I wouldn't have two years ago and that has everything to do with Hakstol and the fact that we now have Sanheim and Myers (who were just decent prospect two years ago).  Right now Sanheim is playing more like Ghost two years ago (still not close) than Ghost is.  Who knows about Myers yet.  Presumably those two make him more expendable and Hakstol made him less ESSENTIAL.  

 

It has to do with Ghost in that he couldn't manage to hold onto the soul of the player he's supposed to be while his coach was benching him for trying to be that player.  

 

That's just my take. 

 

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3 hours ago, King Knut said:

No, he's Ghost and that's a different beast with different potential. 

 

I wish they could get the old fiery Ghost back. Kid's confidence seems shattered.

 

Even with Gord fired and replaced by Rick Wilson he still hasn't rebounded.

 

Just like that turn over he had last night that lead to the 2nd goal man he went and sulked on the bench for awhile and just never seemed to recover.

 

I hate to say but if this continues maybe he forces Chuck to move if for no other reason he has a shake up like JVR had when he was traded out to Toronto it kind of woke him up.

 

I'm not lobbying to trade him by any means but if they continue to win one and lose one the dead line being less than two weeks away who knows what they do.

 

Simmonds and Ghost could make a nice package for a team who is interested in adding some skill.

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3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Simmonds and Ghost could make a nice package for a team who is interested in adding some skill.

 

I suggested trading those two for PK Subban :)

 

The Preds were apparently willing to trade him this offseason... not sure how they feel about that now. 

 

But it had a lot to do with cap space and that hasn't really changed.

 

The salaries work out in this trade, plus Nashville gains about $4+M should they choose to not resign Simmer.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

I suggested trading those two for PK Subban :)

 

The Preds were apparently willing to trade him this offseason... not sure how they feel about that now. 

 

But it had a lot to do with cap space and that hasn't really changed.

 

The salaries work out in this trade, plus Nashville gains about $4+M should they choose to not resign Simmer.

 

 

 

I must have missed that.

 

However I do not see the Preds moving him for those two.

 

However give Eeli Tolvanen, Frederic Allard and a 1st and I do that trade.

Edited by OccamsRazor

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4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I wish they could get the old fiery Ghost back. Kid's confidence seems shattered.

 

 

This is the entire thesis behind what I'm saying. 

2 Assists las night were great, but it was Sanheim who made the more Ghost-Like play on Coots' goal and even that was more freight train aggressiveness than Ghost-like dancing around the defenders.

 

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Even with Gord fired and replaced by Rick Wilson he still hasn't rebounded.

 

 

I mean it took a long time to beat it out of him, so it makes sense it would take a while to get it back.  Almost reminds me of McNabb who had it drilled into his head that he needed to be a pocket quarterback and not a scrambler... fine, but by about the 5th year the dude wouldn't leave the pocked if it was filled with rattlesnakes and nuclear bombs.  Even Manning and Montana had to leave the pocket sometimes!

 

I do sincerely hope ghost can get his groove back for us. 

 

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Just like that turn over he had last night that lead to the 2nd goal man he went and sulked on the bench for awhile and just never seemed to recover.

 

 

And I believe that's because for the past several years if he'd done that, he'd have feared being slapped into the press box. 

 

Frankly, I think TK is still suffering from something similar.  He could also be taking things over with his speed and skating, but he's just not because he was similarly stunted by punishments for doing just that.  

 

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I hate to say but if this continues maybe he forces Chuck to move if for no other reason he has a shake up like JVR had when he was traded out to Toronto it kind of woke him up.

 

 

for some reason I still kinda blame JVR's college years for his developmental delays.  Not sure why I think that though.  Just a hunch.  

I think Toronto utilized him much better immediately... because they had to.  He went from 15 minutes a night on the third line to almost 20 minutes a night on the top line.  Toronto didn't have to be good yet.  They were still tanking for the team they have now.  They could throw him into the fire with Kadri and Kessel and see if he responded.  The Flyers could never take that risk.  

 

There may be something similar at play with Ghost.  He needs to be able to shake off this fear of screwing up.  Going someplace that doesn't need to win right away would help him cut loose a bit.  Then again a team like that ain't gonna make a sweet deadline deal for him.

 

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Simmonds and Ghost could make a nice package for a team who is interested in adding some skill.

 

Good for that team, yes.   Good for the Flyers?  I can't quite see it.

 

Simmonds obviously needs to be traded unless they somehow get into playoff position in two weeks. Even if they do he should probably be traded.

 

I'm not familiar with all the not yet NHL super prospects to ask for, but I'm not terribly interested in getting three first round picks from a playoff team.  I don't think Fletcher's been charged with acquiring draft picks.  That's what Hextall would have done and I don't think Fletcher's being encouraged to do ANYTHING Hextall would have done... even if it's the best one could do.

 

I don't think we'll be seeing Simmonds and Ghost go for just picks like Coburn, Timmo and Schenner did. That kinda scares me because I'm not sure what a competitive team is going to give up in usable assets that they won't already be using.  I'm not familiar with who drafted who when and that's still in Juniors or abroad and killing it there to think there's a good option in that direction, but I guess that's the most feasible alternative to draft picks that has potential to work.  

 

 

 

 

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  • Most Liked Posts in This Topic

    • 4
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      Dear god.    Don't trade Ghost. His value is low, and his contract is more than manageable. You're not going to get anything approaching value, and the screaming when he's back to what he was last year will be maddening. Let him hang out with Hart's sports psychiatrist. See if you can fix him in the offseason.   Especially don't trade him for an expiring UFA.    Isn't this what we bitched about Homer and Clarke doing? Giving up on young players after one disappointing season? 
    • 3
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      Well the only other option is Hagg in that regard because Gudas is but he is also a right hand shot.   And you will never seen Mcduds and defensively responsible in the same sentence so he is out.   So it will have to be....     Ivan/Sanheim Ghost/Gudas Hagg/Myers   With Mcdud on the popcorn machine where he belongs.    
    • 3
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      Hidden Content Give reaction or reply to this topic to see the hidden content.   👺
    • 3
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      I don't think Hakstol deserves "complete" blame.  Ghost had a very good year last year and a good rookie campaign under Hakstol.  This year and the year before last, not so much.  If Hakstol gets complete blame for the bad years, does he get complete credit for the good years?  Also, after Hakstol was fired, Provorov and Sanheim have played much better.  But Ghost has not shown improvement.  I'm not banging the drum to trade Ghost, nor am I defending Hakstol.  But I think the rise of Sanheim and now possibly Myers gives the Flyers some flexibility to trade Ghost.  I think Ghost is who he is - a great offensive d-man who struggles in his own zone.  If he's not getting it done offensively, it's extremely difficult to look past his defensive shortcomings.
    • 3
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      Rick using google...     
    • 2
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      Ok.  One person, which I didn't see.  At the risk of speaking for @radoran, I wonder if he meant to add a caveat that Stone reasonably assure the Flyers that he'd sign long term with them.  If not, then I wouldn't make that deal.

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