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King Knut

Off Season Deal With Toronto

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Looking at the Maples Leafs and all their offensive riches, they are going to run into serious cap issues this off season.  Will they really attempt to ice with three TEN million dollar players?  

 

They have to pay Marleau for another year but need to resign Marner (top scorer over two $10million guys), Johnson and Kapanen, which is likely to be at least $18-$20 million right there.  They can fill out their bottom 3 with low end deals, but they'll still have to sign a D-man or two and they're already looking at a $71 million dollar cap hit for next season.  

 

Marner, Kapanen and Johnson are all RFA, but so was Matthews when they coughed up 11.6 for him and Nylander (who wasn't nearly as good as Marner) held out and didnt' play until they gave him 10.3 for playing 2/3 of this year and almost 7million for the next 5.  I still think this was Nylander's agent looking ahead and using his client's advantageous timing to his advantage, trying to get him paid before the others take up all the cap space, but the tone has been set as a result I can't imagine Marner outscoring Tavares and Matthews and settling for even a Nylander type deal.  

 

Long story short, the Maples leafs will be making their run and then trying to move some salary.  

 

I would rather acquire a Stone or Panarin in UFA than give anything up for Nylander, Kapanen, Kadri or Johnson.

 

But I certainly would be willing to give up assets for Marner or Matthews (Tavares has a NMC).  

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1 hour ago, King Knut said:

I would rather acquire a Stone or Panarin in UFA than give anything up for Nylander, Kapanen, Kadri or Johnson.

 

I think Nylander will be the odd man out... .which I now think has lower trade value than during the holdout. Would have been smart to trade him then.

 

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

But I certainly would be willing to give up assets for Marner or Matthews (Tavares has a NMC).  

 

They are definitely not trading any of those guys.

 

And if they do, you can be sure they would want two of Provorov, Hart, or Patrick.

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3 hours ago, King Knut said:

Looking at the Maples Leafs and all their offensive riches, they are going to run into serious cap issues this off season.  Will they really attempt to ice with three TEN million dollar players?  

 

They have to pay Marleau for another year but need to resign Marner (top scorer over two $10million guys), Johnson and Kapanen, which is likely to be at least $18-$20 million right there.  They can fill out their bottom 3 with low end deals, but they'll still have to sign a D-man or two and they're already looking at a $71 million dollar cap hit for next season.  

 

Marner, Kapanen and Johnson are all RFA, but so was Matthews when they coughed up 11.6 for him and Nylander (who wasn't nearly as good as Marner) held out and didnt' play until they gave him 10.3 for playing 2/3 of this year and almost 7million for the next 5.  I still think this was Nylander's agent looking ahead and using his client's advantageous timing to his advantage, trying to get him paid before the others take up all the cap space, but the tone has been set as a result I can't imagine Marner outscoring Tavares and Matthews and settling for even a Nylander type deal.  

 

Long story short, the Maples leafs will be making their run and then trying to move some salary.  

 

I would rather acquire a Stone or Panarin in UFA than give anything up for Nylander, Kapanen, Kadri or Johnson.

 

But I certainly would be willing to give up assets for Marner or Matthews (Tavares has a NMC).  

 

Good luck prying Marner or Matthews away....it's been 5 decades since the Leafs have been relevant (other than 1 or 2 seasons) and they now are. Those two are gods in Hockey Central. As Brelic mentioned...start with Provorov and Patrick and add. Then you've got a bigger hole than you started with.

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1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

I think Nylander will be the odd man out... .which I now think has lower trade value than during the holdout. Would have been smart to trade him then.

 

 

Yeah, I was kinda shocked they gave him the deal they did.  I really thought we'd be trading Simmonds for his rights.  

 

1 hour ago, brelic said:

They are definitely not trading any of those guys.

 

And if they do, you can be sure they would want two of Provorov, Hart, or Patrick.

 

I wouldn't think so, but are they really going to be able to carry $32 million + in three players?  

 

1 hour ago, brelic said:

And if they do, you can be sure they would want two of Provorov, Hart, or Patrick.

 

I'd send them Patrick and a 1st in a heartbeat for Matthews (who may have a NMC kick in next year, I'm not sure). 
Maybe even Provo... and I like Patty a lot and love Provo.

 

That's just me.  

 

For some reason I'm not sold on Marner yet, but maybe he's as good.  I feel like he's got the best chance of being the guy benefitting from the presence of the others.  

 

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17 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Good luck prying Marner or Matthews away....it's been 5 decades since the Leafs have been relevant (other than 1 or 2 seasons) and they now are. Those two are gods in Hockey Central. As Brelic mentioned...start with Provorov and Patrick and add. Then you've got a bigger hole than you started with.

 

I'm not saying those guys are available or anything.  I'm saying others will be.  I'd consider a lot for them though if they were available.

 

The problem isn't that I want them and Toronto won't trade them because they're too good.  The problem is that I honestly can't see any team investing $32million plus in three players.  

 

Nylander's going to have to go, but I also feel like most of the rest of the league is going to need to see him produce at his previous pace before taking on that new salary of his.  It's no wonder he's not.  It's hard to get up to speed after being out that long.  

 

They really shouldn't have given him that deal, but Dubas is supposedly the really strongly data driven guy, so they must have some reasoning behind it.  

 

As it is, they're either going to have to move at least 2 guys this off season or they're going to have to beg Marner to take the kind of leap of faith Nylander wouldn't.  

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25 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Yeah, I was kinda shocked they gave him the deal they did.  I really thought we'd be trading Simmonds for his rights.  

 

Me too. In retrospect, I'm not sure he'd be a good fit here. I don't watch him much, but many here have mentioned that he's quite a soft player not unlike JVR. 

 

Those guys are great complimentary players in that they don't make their own luck - they are usually recipients of it. We have too many guys like that already. We need more guys that can take over on their own.

 

25 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I wouldn't think so, but are they really going to be able to carry $32 million + in three players?  

 

Good question. Right now, they have $7M in free cap space for next season with only 14 guys signed. Those unsigned guys include Marner, Kapanen, and Johnsson which you've mentioned. 

 

Plus $1.2M in retained salary for Kessel.

 

Plus $5.3M to Nathan Horton on LTIR, which they don't get to use in the summer I believe. The full hit counts until the first day of the season after which they can get the LTIR cap relief. 

 

That can severely hamper their maneuvering over the summer. That Horton hit basically leaves them with $2M over the summer (correct me if I'm wrong... )

 

25 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I'd send them Patrick and a 1st in a heartbeat for Matthews (who may have a NMC kick in next year, I'm not sure). 
Maybe even Provo... and I like Patty a lot and love Provo.

 

That's just me.  

 

Patrick and 1st for Matthews? All day every day! But that's not nearly enough for Toronto, IMO. They would surely get multiple offers that would top that from other teams.

 

25 minutes ago, King Knut said:

For some reason I'm not sold on Marner yet, but maybe he's as good.  I feel like he's got the best chance of being the guy benefitting from the presence of the others.  

 

 

Yeah, maybe - but he will get paid on what he's done this year, and he's having a monster season! 

 

Dubas should have a blast this summer lol.

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44 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Me too. In retrospect, I'm not sure he'd be a good fit here. I don't watch him much, but many here have mentioned that he's quite a soft player not unlike JVR. 

 

Those guys are great complimentary players in that they don't make their own luck - they are usually recipients of it. We have too many guys like that already. We need more guys that can take over on their own.

 

 

I thought Hextall should have tried to make a play for him in the fall before he signed for as much as he did.  It would have been the smarter move for Dubas to move him just because most of his leverage would be gone on another roster with a looser cap situation.  That said, I'd much rather spend more money for Stone or Panarin this summer than have given Nylander more than 4.5 million.

 

44 minutes ago, brelic said:

Plus $5.3M to Nathan Horton on LTIR, which they don't get to use in the summer I believe. The full hit counts until the first day of the season after which they can get the LTIR cap relief. 

 

That can severely hamper their maneuvering over the summer. That Horton hit basically leaves them with $2M over the summer (correct me if I'm wrong... )

 

As I understand how LTIR works, they will have to get under the cap with Horton counting against it until the season starts.  After the first game (or during) they can LTIR him and get a large percentage of that 5.3 back (though I believe it's not 100% of it).  

 

One play Dubas could make would be letting one or even two of Marner, Kapanen or Johnson "hold out" until the season starts, but essentially have a deal in place for them once the 5.3 opens up.  This is Horton's last year so they wouldn't have to worry about it next season.  

 

I'm not sure about Horton over the summer.  I actually think that they may have $10million+ in cap room over the summer, but they are legitimately looking at signing those three and at least 2 D-Men (they're likely to lose Gardiner and Hainsey who open up almost $8million between them if they walk / retire, but keep in mind they also represent 40 minutes of ice time a night between them that'll have to be replaced.  

 

44 minutes ago, brelic said:

Patrick and 1st for Matthews? All day every day! But that's not nearly enough for Toronto, IMO. They would surely get multiple offers that would top that from other teams.

 

 

Figured that's where it starts.  Could toss in Ghost to replace Gardiner.  

It's not like I'm all in on Matthews or Marner, though a player like that would be nice...  I'm just trying to figure out if there's a play to be made to take advantage of the situation for the Flyers.  Especially since Toronto has entered the Simmonds rumors conversation now.  If they can make a move and bring in a Kapanen or Johnson (and resign them to a likely lower salary than they'd be demanding of Toronto) does that help their bottom 6 at all (keeping in mind that for me priority NUMBER 1 is Stone or Panarin). The only way it does is if Fletcher and Gordon commit the bottom 3 to being just as much of a scoring line as the 3rd line.

 

JVR              G          Stone

Lindy         Coots       Jake

Johnson   Patty        TK

Laughton   Frosty    Vrobyeb/Bailey / Some other kid

 

Which also brings up the fact that things could get very interesting for Patty next year in his first RFA season if Frosty's breathing down his neck.  

 

 

Edited by King Knut

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20 hours ago, King Knut said:

JVR              G          Stone

Lindy         Coots       Jake

Johnson   Patty        TK

Laughton   Frosty    Vrobyeb/Bailey / Some other kid

 

Which also brings up the fact that things could get very interesting for Patty next year in his first RFA season if Frosty's breathing down his neck.  

 

I think the Giroux experiment back at center is an indication that we need a better plan next year. His line is not working very well, and he's been a lot less effective since moving back.

 

The Lindblom/Coots/Voracek line is fine as a 1st line next season - they're good defensively and seem to have some chemistry. 

 

After that, it gets tricky. Assuming we get Stone, I'd prefer to see something like

 

G/Patrick/Stone

JVR/Frost/TK

 

If Frost isn't ready, maybe Rubtsov or Vorobyev, or an outside signing / acquisition.

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Yeah, I was kinda shocked they gave him the deal they did.  I really thought we'd be trading Simmonds for his rights.  

 

 

I wouldn't think so, but are they really going to be able to carry $32 million + in three players?  

 

 

I'd send them Patrick and a 1st in a heartbeat for Matthews (who may have a NMC kick in next year, I'm not sure). 
Maybe even Provo... and I like Patty a lot and love Provo.

 

That's just me.  

 

For some reason I'm not sold on Marner yet, but maybe he's as good.  I feel like he's got the best chance of being the guy benefitting from the presence of the others.  

 

I'm quite the opposite. 

 

Neither is happening, but I'd go for Marner many times before Matthews. 

 

I think Marner is actually the guy who stirs the drink there. 

 

And that's not meant to be a knock on Matthews. 

 

But I don't trade what it would require for either. We'll be fine without. 

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14 minutes ago, brelic said:

His line is not working very well, and he's been a lot less effective since moving back.

 

 

Alot of that is because his LW is ineffective and just floats pick when and where he wants to play.

 

It is what I feared would happen by bringing him back.

 

And I would rather trade Jake this offseason too.

 

But if he does sta I would prefer for TK to stay on the top line.

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1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

I'm quite the opposite. 

 

Neither is happening, but I'd go for Marner many times before Matthews. 

 

I think Marner is actually the guy who stirs the drink there. 

 

And that's not meant to be a knock on Matthews. 

 

But I don't trade what it would require for either. We'll be fine without. 

 

I have NO IDEA what deals may or may not go down between Toronto and Philadelphia... nor honestly, does it hold much interest to me at the moment..

But I am chiming in here because I agree 1000% that Mitch Marner > Auston Matthews...been saying that for a while now...and like you, Rux, I don't mean it as a slight towards Matthews. 
I just feel Marner is a fantastic all around, smart player (and getting better all the time) and I think eventually, history will bear that out, barring any major injuries for him.

So that said, if somehow, someway, Philly can convince Toronto to send them Marner in any kind of package (because Toronto feels keeping Matthews over Marner is the better deal... hehe), then I would say, yes, YES, AND YAAAASSSSSSSSSS... all day, every day!

Send The Marner, please!

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3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Alot of that is because his LW is ineffective and just floats pick when and where he wants to play.

 

It is what I feared would happen by bringing him back.

 

And I would rather trade Jake this offseason too.

 

But if he does sta I would prefer for TK to stay on the top line.

I'd definitely keep TK on the top line.  I'm to the place where I'd rather trade JVR than Jake (and you know my feelings on Jake).  Jake is dumber than a dog crap M&M, but he works hard and produces. 

 

For whatever reason, JVR simply does not work in philly.  Trade him for Panarin. 

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19 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

JVR than Jake

 

Yep ship them both in a package deal for picks or players and prospects and then go trade for Stone and Panarin.

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2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yep ship them both in a package deal for picks or players and prospects and then go trade for Stone and Panarin.

No way you can trade those two players in a package. 

 

I trade JVR for Panarin. A pick may need to go with him, but maybe not.   Voracek can go to Ottawa for Stone (provided guarantees Stone will sign). Not sure that's even and I'm not sure which way it leans. 

 

Among reasons this isn't likely is that it still leaves Simmonds. He really does have to go.  I don't see the Flyers moving all three. 

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10 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

No way you can trade those two players in a package. 

 

I trade JVR for Panarin. A pick may need to go with him, but maybe not.   Voracek can go to Ottawa for Stone (provided guarantees Stone will sign). Not sure that's even and I'm not sure which way it leans. 

 

Among reasons this isn't likely is that it still leaves Simmonds. He really does have to go.  I don't see the Flyers moving all three. 

 

Then trade Simmer.

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yeah...as much as I've grown to dislike Vorachek....he still puts up numbers while looking like ****.....not sure how he does it.....

 

Trade Simmer. pains me to say it but it makes the most sense....

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5 hours ago, MaineFlyFan said:

yeah...as much as I've grown to dislike Vorachek....he still puts up numbers while looking like ****.....not sure how he does it.....

 

Trade Simmer. pains me to say it but it makes the most sense....

Voracek definitely looks like the affect Jagr had on him has worn WAY off.

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6 hours ago, Cheesesteak said:

Voracek definitely looks like the affect Jagr had on him has worn WAY off.

 

It is hard to watch him handle the puck long. Gordon needs to implement a rule with Jake...by one thousand mississippi count he has to pass the puck to someone else....no longer...if he does he will turn it over. 

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22 hours ago, brelic said:

 

I think the Giroux experiment back at center is an indication that we need a better plan next year. His line is not working very well, and he's been a lot less effective since moving back.

 

The Lindblom/Coots/Voracek line is fine as a 1st line next season - they're good defensively and seem to have some chemistry. 

 

After that, it gets tricky. Assuming we get Stone, I'd prefer to see something like

 

G/Patrick/Stone

JVR/Frost/TK

 

If Frost isn't ready, maybe Rubtsov or Vorobyev, or an outside signing / acquisition.

 

 

 

 

 

That all makes sense... I was looking more at the roster as a whole than chemistry on specific line combinations (other than the 4th line) but that solves the what the hell to do with Frost problem.  

 

I think the 4c could come from the Phantoms, but Vorobyev has to show a little more.  I don't know if it's worth it to go out and try to sign one at this point... even if PEB is UFA this summer... and even if he has proven himself more effective on a decent team with a decent coach ;)  

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18 hours ago, MaineFlyFan said:

yeah...as much as I've grown to dislike Vorachek....he still puts up numbers while looking like ****.....not sure how he does it.....

 

 

...because it ain't a beauty contest.  

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41 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

...because it ain't a beauty contest.  

I meant his play, not his disheveled caveman looks....but in either case....fair enough. :)

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11 minutes ago, MaineFlyFan said:

I meant his play, not his disheveled caveman looks....but in either case....fair enough. :)

 

yeah, I meant his play too :)

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On 2/19/2019 at 11:12 AM, King Knut said:

Marner, Kapanen and Johnson are all RFA

 

My first priority after watching the Bread man hard last night, is do what you have to to go get this guy.

 

Go get him and then I would try all I could to move JVR who has about 4 years and around 28 mill left on his contract. It's moveable.

 

Plan A

 

Grioux-Couturier-TK

Panarin-Patrick-Voracek

Lindblom-Frost-?????

Raffl-Laughton-Hartman

 

That would be my starting point. And no I would not be bringing Wayne back to fill that 3 line RW spot.

 

And the season i quoted this is if Pararin is not an option i would go do what i can to bring Andrea's Johnson to Philly love that kid dude has some soft hands and speed to burn.

 

Plan B

 

Grioux-Couturier-TK

Johnson-Patrick-Voracek

Lindblom-Frost-?????

Raffl-Laughton-Hartman

 

Now here I would let Andrea's and Oskar battle it out for the 2nd LW spot.

 

Could dip into free agency for that 3rd line RW spot if NAK ain't ready.

 

Anyways just looking ahead.

 

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14 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

My first priority after watching the Bread man hard last night, is do what you have to to go get this guy.

 

Go get him and then I would try all I could to move JVR who has about 4 years and around 28 mill left on his contract. It's moveable.

 

 

Ha ha... right?  He was the difference last night and he's just a killer.  

And he doesn't want to be there!  

 

The Flyers are a pretty appealing option among those teams with the cap space.  Can they resign Laughton, Konecny, Provo, Sanheim, Talbot and one of Hartman or Raffl for $22 million though?

 

This is one of the reasons I wanted to keep Stolarz.  Even as a UFA he's not going to command as much as Talbot will.  

 

Rangers, Islanders and Carolina will all be competing for him in the East.  He could choose the Rangers to go and be their stud or he could choose the Islanders because they're playing so well.  Carolina is such a smaller market with fewer endorsement deals on the table.

 

I'd sooner have Panarin than JVR, but both plans are contingent on moving him.  

 

Maybe whoever we beat out for Panarin would deal for him?  

 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, King Knut said:

The Flyers are a pretty appealing option among those teams with the cap space.  Can they resign Laughton, Konecny, Provo, Sanheim, Talbot and one of Hartman or Raffl for $22 million though?

 

 

They have 32 mill and that is before the cap goes up to if I remember correctly 83 mill so you add another 10 mill.

 

Yeah they can make it work with 42 mill.

 

Flyers have plenty of cap space and prospects as well as picks I would even try to trade  a pick to obtain his right so you ca negotiate exclusively till July 1st.

 

It's risky but worth it to not let the Rangers or Isles get him right....or even the Devils.

 

Just my 2 cents.

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      I think Nylander will be the odd man out... .which I now think has lower trade value than during the holdout. Would have been smart to trade him then.     They are definitely not trading any of those guys.   And if they do, you can be sure they would want two of Provorov, Hart, or Patrick.
    • 2
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      Good luck prying Marner or Matthews away....it's been 5 decades since the Leafs have been relevant (other than 1 or 2 seasons) and they now are. Those two are gods in Hockey Central. As Brelic mentioned...start with Provorov and Patrick and add. Then you've got a bigger hole than you started with.
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      I think the Giroux experiment back at center is an indication that we need a better plan next year. His line is not working very well, and he's been a lot less effective since moving back.   The Lindblom/Coots/Voracek line is fine as a 1st line next season - they're good defensively and seem to have some chemistry.    After that, it gets tricky. Assuming we get Stone, I'd prefer to see something like   G/Patrick/Stone JVR/Frost/TK   If Frost isn't rea
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      I'm quite the opposite.    Neither is happening, but I'd go for Marner many times before Matthews.    I think Marner is actually the guy who stirs the drink there.    And that's not meant to be a knock on Matthews.    But I don't trade what it would require for either. We'll be fine without. 
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      I have NO IDEA what deals may or may not go down between Toronto and Philadelphia... nor honestly, does it hold much interest to me at the moment.. But I am chiming in here because I agree 1000% that Mitch Marner > Auston Matthews...been saying that for a while now...and like you, Rux, I don't mean it as a slight towards Matthews.  I just feel Marner is a fantastic all around, smart player (and getting better all the time) and I think eventually, history will bear that out, barring any m
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