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Jimtown guy

Coyle Traded to Bruins; Donato + 5th Come Back to MN

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3 hours ago, puck_hawg said:

SHOCKER!!!! You don't approve of anything the Wild do. You seriously think the Bruins would give up a 3rd? 

 

Personally I feel Fenton sucks cause he should have gotten Pasternak and a 1st for Coyle, because you know Coyle is so great. 

Here is my fear:  Charlie has 10G 18A in 60 games with the Wild.  NN had 9G and 14A in 46.  NN has 9G and 6A in 14 games since trade; more than a point per game.  What will Coyle do with Bruins (even if he starts on line 3)?  He has the potential to contribute as much to the Bruins as NN has to the Canes  - if the opportunity is there and his role is clear game-to-game (and the Wild culture and roulette line shuffle is over for him).  While Donato had a good start with 2As and is younger and cheaper, we will likely see much improvement upon the 10G 18As with Wild. And, we lose size, strength, better defense, and skating ability (versus Donato) - which is hard to replace.  We all probably understand that we received next to nothing with Rask, except a hefty three years @$4MM, with 2 total points and more injuries.  I ask, who goes next, for what return, and what is the Plan?  If we are dumping salary only; it's going to be a long, cold, boring re-build - because we won't a tract free agents with extra $ but no new true assets on the team.  

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10 hours ago, EmptyShelf said:

NN has 9G and 6A in 14 games since trade; more than a point per game.

 

Yeah man that is looking as bad as it can get as making the Wild look bad...however he is on a good deep Canes team who has a Stanely Cup champ as it's coach and a 3 time Stanely Cup champ as their captain.

 

I regret the Flyers not bringing Justin back home to Philly when they had a chance...i always wonder what would have happened if they never traded him away so early in his career.

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14 hours ago, puck_hawg said:

SHOCKER!!!! You don't approve of anything the Wild do. You seriously think the Bruins would give up a 3rd? 

 

Personally I feel Fenton sucks cause he should have gotten Pasternak and a 1st for Coyle, because you know Coyle is so great. 

Listen, you do you and keep lining Leipolds pockets with money for putting out a subpar product that is falling part very quickly. Coyle was at least worth a 3rd round pick not a 5th. A 5th round panning out to become something other then a AHL lifer is a long shot but it can happen. Donato has struggled with Boston when one of their Centers is already a -9 and Donato is worse defensively versus Coyle who has been a + guy his career along with putting up a average 34 points a season.

 

The biggest frustration with the Wild is we have seen how the Wild handle struggling players not named Parise, Suter and Koivu. They get no help and get moved down the lines sometimes even being sent back to the AHL. Sadly guys that showed promise get traded where we watch them flourish as the new team nourishes them and helps them figure out their issue or just gives them a shot. Our development team is terrible here.

 

I won't say the Wild are like the Twins as in they are cheap but Leipold does seem pretty satisfied with putting butts in the seats even if the team underperforms. Minnesota fans tend to get complacent in underperforming teams. I want a whole lot more then just "making the playoffs" where we are first round punching bags. The trades so far don't point to improvement or trades to better the future. Yes, I am critical of the team as they have shown they are fine with what they have done the last 3+ years without improvement. Prospect wise we don't have much except for the guy who thought we forgot about him and decided to stay in Russia and play there. Guys that show signs of promise who go through a struggle/ rough point get traded. We have thrown away draft picks for rentals who disappear out of the NHL after their time with us is up. This isn't a one time ordeal either. They have been doing the one step forward, two steps backwards for years now. I think it's perfectly fine to be way more critical of all their moves due to their years of repeated history. I expect more out of them and they continue to show less and less. If these are moves are to clear money, which is fine, then come out and admit it and look to move guys like Zucker who show as little interest as possible about what's going on with what's happening on the ice. Big contract numbers and little effort. Clear the books of those guys first.

 

I would take one Cup win over 2 Super Bowl wins, more World Series wins or even NBA championships any day. I love having hockey and the Wild. I still miss the North Stars. But one thing I will not do is sit around and be ok with a team that is severely underperforming and at times looks like they aren't even trying. They have had enough coaches and now 2 GMs with the same core players and now seeing a decline. I think it's perfectly fine for fans to start being upset, calling out stuff and nitpicking any moves the franchise does. If they clean it up and start to fix up issues and people continue I am find with them getting called out. But we are at the tail end of these core players careers and we really need to be thinking about the future.

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15 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:


This jerking around Minnesota did with him regarding position did him NO FAVORS. He should do better with a clearly defined, steady role now.

 

Bruins may be one of the Lightning's arch division rivals, but I do wish Chawwwwlie well, personally. He deserves better than to simply be "the guy Brent Burns was traded for"... honestly, that schtick is past old.

*Applause*

For those who enjoy that, They must be looking for the 'Hindsight 20-20 Award' for their mantle.;)

Imo, The only way to know for sure would be to find a special DeLorean and head back to stop the trade and stay in that timeline for years to see how Burns turned out here.

No way to know otherwise.

 

Next up on the hugely under performing list is Staal and Zucker.

No Idea what Fenton wants to do with Staal.

Zucker could get the same scenario as Coyle and be a hometown star in Vegas. I thought that before he got his big contract.

I'd still like to see him stay and see if this season is just a reflection of his sudden wealth hangover and not ability.

 

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7 minutes ago, EJ0226 said:

 

The biggest frustration with the Wild is we have seen how the Wild handle struggling players not named Parise, Suter and Koivu. They get no help and get moved down the lines sometimes even being sent back to the AHL. Sadly guys that showed promise get traded where we watch them flourish as the new team nourishes them and helps them figure out their issue or just gives them a shot. Our development team is terrible here.

 

Agree in general, But don't you think most of this season was focused on getting guys like Nino and Coyle going? Constant moving to different lines/combos for guys that have been here for years and haven't resembled anything close to their better one's.

That shouldn't have been our focus. While doing this they messed up lines that had success last season, Especially the Granny-Staal-Zucker line which didn't help Staal much this year by doing so.

 

The casualties in all this are the young guys who don't get the chance to show and develop anything here. The team was too focused on guys who shouldn't need that special attention at this point in their careers.

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7 minutes ago, ClusterChuck said:

*Applause*

For those who enjoy that, They must be looking for the 'Hindsight 20-20 Award' for their mantle.;)

Imo, The only way to know for sure would be to find a special DeLorean and head back to stop the trade and stay in that timeline for years to see how Burns turned out here.

No way to know otherwise.

 

Next up on the hugely under performing list is Staal and Zucker.

No Idea what Fenton wants to do with Staal.

Zucker could get the same scenario as Coyle and be a hometown star in Vegas. I thought that before he got his big contract.

I'd still like to see him stay and see if this season is just a reflection of his sudden wealth hangover and not ability.

 

I won't think of Coyle like that but more of the guy that is "what if". As in what if they kept him in one role instead of jerking him around. What if they had a team that could help develop players better and help them during their struggles.

One guy that I do question is Zucker though. After getting his pay day he seems very uninterested on what is happening on the ice now. Seems like he has slowed down and is not going 100%. I liked him till this season. Looks like he is pulling a Suter now.


I agree that team for once did try to help for awhile with Coyle and Nino this season. It did seem like there was some effort but soon fell to the players figuring it out with no help after a little. But this is the Wild even if all the lines were firing at full strength they still would get broken up and moved around. It's our M.O. I think our struggling guys would be so much better suited staying with the same guys instead of wondering what line mates they are getting and how they might have to change their game to better suit them.

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The truth is the Wild didn't want to pay Burns for what he was going to be asking in his next deal.  So we cut bait and tried to pile up some other assets instead.  It didn't turn out to be a good return.  But yea, no one could've guessed it was going to be that lopsided.  

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27 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

The truth is the Wild didn't want to pay Burns for what he was going to be asking in his next deal.  So we cut bait and tried to pile up some other assets instead.  It didn't turn out to be a good return.  But yea, no one could've guessed it was going to be that lopsided.  

Yeah and the Wild chose the wrong horse to bet handsomely on so to speak. But saying that the Burns trade proved to be Burns for Donato and a fifth is like saying Stalin is to thank for there are less poor people living today.

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On 2/22/2019 at 10:07 AM, EJ0226 said:

Listen, you do you and keep lining Leipolds pockets with money for putting out a subpar product that is falling part very quickly. Coyle was at least worth a 3rd round pick not a 5th. A 5th round panning out to become something other then a AHL lifer is a long shot but it can happen. Donato has struggled with Boston when one of their Centers is already a -9 and Donato is worse defensively versus Coyle who has been a + guy his career along with putting up a average 34 points a season.

 

The biggest frustration with the Wild is we have seen how the Wild handle struggling players not named Parise, Suter and Koivu. They get no help and get moved down the lines sometimes even being sent back to the AHL. Sadly guys that showed promise get traded where we watch them flourish as the new team nourishes them and helps them figure out their issue or just gives them a shot. Our development team is terrible here.

 

I won't say the Wild are like the Twins as in they are cheap but Leipold does seem pretty satisfied with putting butts in the seats even if the team underperforms. Minnesota fans tend to get complacent in underperforming teams. I want a whole lot more then just "making the playoffs" where we are first round punching bags. The trades so far don't point to improvement or trades to better the future. Yes, I am critical of the team as they have shown they are fine with what they have done the last 3+ years without improvement. Prospect wise we don't have much except for the guy who thought we forgot about him and decided to stay in Russia and play there. Guys that show signs of promise who go through a struggle/ rough point get traded. We have thrown away draft picks for rentals who disappear out of the NHL after their time with us is up. This isn't a one time ordeal either. They have been doing the one step forward, two steps backwards for years now. I think it's perfectly fine to be way more critical of all their moves due to their years of repeated history. I expect more out of them and they continue to show less and less. If these are moves are to clear money, which is fine, then come out and admit it and look to move guys like Zucker who show as little interest as possible about what's going on with what's happening on the ice. Big contract numbers and little effort. Clear the books of those guys first.

 

I would take one Cup win over 2 Super Bowl wins, more World Series wins or even NBA championships any day. I love having hockey and the Wild. I still miss the North Stars. But one thing I will not do is sit around and be ok with a team that is severely underperforming and at times looks like they aren't even trying. They have had enough coaches and now 2 GMs with the same core players and now seeing a decline. I think it's perfectly fine for fans to start being upset, calling out stuff and nitpicking any moves the franchise does. If they clean it up and start to fix up issues and people continue I am find with them getting called out. But we are at the tail end of these core players careers and we really need to be thinking about the future.

Please summarize your post. I ain't got time to read a pessimistic rant about a sports team. 

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17 hours ago, puck_hawg said:

Please summarize your post. I ain't got time to read a pessimistic rant about a sports team. 

How on earth did you find time from your busy schedule to post so observantly...

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Posted (edited)

Coyle has yet to record a point since February 5 and is -6 since then. 

Edited by Jimtown guy

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5 hours ago, Jimtown guy said:

Coyle has yet to record a point since February 5 and is -6 since then. 

Yeah, but he already placed one goal in 1 shootout attempt for the Boston team (100% so far). 😉

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19 hours ago, Jimtown guy said:

Coyle has yet to record a point since February 5 and is -6 since then. 

Ouch

 

Btw, I assume the site upgrade took away that other option to alert a post instead of Quote?

No big deal, But it was nice to mention multiple people without multi-quoting and all that text.

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Posted (edited)
On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 4:14 PM, puck_hawg said:

Please summarize your post. I ain't got time to read a pessimistic rant about a sports team. 

Honestly, I thought about making a smart ass comment to this but it's pointless. To quote PJ Fleck, "If you surround yourself with turds, you're headed towards Turdville. If you surround yourself with elite people, you're headed towards elite things." The Wild sure do seem to have a lot of turds around.

 Lets be honest here the trades themselves didn't look good on paper either. Donato has been a fantastic surprise and hopefully he continues. But looking at the trades on paper, none of them looked good for the Wild. Fiala is a huge question mark. He had a major injury that could of altered his career and his production for goals is way down. I pray it's a off season for him as I am tired of the Wild getting screwed. But none of the trades made sense at the time. Fenton wasn't stockpiling picks for the future and he wasn't improving the team either.

Honestly, if you want to cheer for the team, that is fine. I cheer for them. And if you want to ignore the issues and not question some of the decisions, that is fine too. There are some of us going wait a second, what is the team trying to accomplish as first the owner said nothing but a minor tweak is allowed. Then the owner goes nevermind, the team is bad and not working together so go ahead and do whatever is needed to make this team better. So you look at the trades and you have to wonder what is Fenton doing? If Donato didn't pan out so far it would have been really ugly. And thank god the Zucker trade didn't happen as if what was reported was the trade we would have been ripped off hardcore. I am fine with moving whoever but lets try to actually get equal value back or a good selection of draft picks.
When you see teams that were better then us, got worse and now are getting better then us all the in same time frame as the core guys have been here to only see the Wild plateau or even now decline with no change is frustrating. We need change but we need smart change. Not just change because which Fenton appears to be doing so far.

Edited by EJ0226

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6 hours ago, EJ0226 said:

Honestly, I thought about making a smart ass comment to this but it's pointless. To quote PJ Fleck, "If you surround yourself with turds, you're headed towards Turdville. If you surround yourself with elite people, you're headed towards elite things." The Wild sure do seem to have a lot of turds around.

 Lets be honest here the trades themselves didn't look good on paper either. Donato has been a fantastic surprise and hopefully he continues. But looking at the trades on paper, none of them looked good for the Wild. Fiala is a huge question mark. He had a major injury that could of altered his career and his production for goals is way down. I pray it's a off season for him as I am tired of the Wild getting screwed. But none of the trades made sense at the time. Fenton wasn't stockpiling picks for the future and he wasn't improving the team either.

Honestly, if you want to cheer for the team, that is fine. I cheer for them. And if you want to ignore the issues and not question some of the decisions, that is fine too. There are some of us going wait a second, what is the team trying to accomplish as first the owner said nothing but a minor tweak is allowed. Then the owner goes nevermind, the team is bad and not working together so go ahead and do whatever is needed to make this team better. So you look at the trades and you have to wonder what is Fenton doing? If Donato didn't pan out so far it would have been really ugly. And thank god the Zucker trade didn't happen as if what was reported was the trade we would have been ripped off hardcore. I am fine with moving whoever but lets try to actually get equal value back or a good selection of draft picks.
When you see teams that were better then us, got worse and now are getting better then us all the in same time frame as the core guys have been here to only see the Wild plateau or even now decline with no change is frustrating. We need change but we need smart change. Not just change because which Fenton appears to be doing so far.

You can't judge the trades yet. You need to wait and see how these guys play before making judgements. Doesn't matter how things look on paper. Fiala got 2 goals last night and has outscored Granlund since the trade. Does that mean the Wild got the better player and it was a good move by Fenton? Can't say that yet either.

I have my concerns about the trades as well, but at least I can see what Fenton is trying to do--except the Nino deal. That's a real head scratcher. I say that not based on Nino's success so far in Carolina. I kind of saw that coming--Fenton should have too IMO.

Fenton did not get enough in return for Nino. He should have known where Carolina was going to plug Nino into their lineup(line #1 or #2) and should have gotten no worse than a top 6 player in return--his negotiations with Carolina should have started with Fenton asking for a top 3 player(or comparable draft pick(s)).

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We should have received more for Granny too proven as opposed to potential 

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2 minutes ago, Bear said:

We should have received more for Granny too proven as opposed to potential 

 

Agreed.
Regardless of how Granlund may be doing now vs Fiala, the bottom line was, a player of Granlund's caliber and draft status SHOULD have garnered more than a 1 for 1 on a player (Fiala) who MAY turn out well.


At the very MINIMUM, it should have been Fiala AND either a 2nd or 3rd rounder....and if Nashville wouldn't give that, I have a hard time believing that another team wouldn't have given a decent roster player like Fiala along with the asked for pick.
I really am starting to believe that Fenton made the deal simply because he was 'comfortable' with what Nashville has on their roster, rather than play a bit of hardball with another team to get the absolute most for Granlund.

 

The Nino thing, while Carolina ended up with the better of it, I will sorta give Fenton a pass on that because it was basically a salary swap on two players who were both struggling with the clubs who dealt them...and that didn't look like it would change anytime soon.
Unfortunately for Minnesota, Nino found his game, while Rask not only didn't, but ended up on IR.

As for Coyle, well, that so far has been Minnesota's best deal....HOWEVER, Donato and a 5th probably should been Donato and at LEAST a 3rd.....unless Fenton knew something about Donato (hey, the guy has played really well since being given real NHL time) we didn't and just settled on the 5th because he really wanted the player....and Coyle, like Nino, simply wasn't producing with Minnesota, and as much as I still want to root for him, has STILL been a zero for the most part for Boston so far.

 

People can sit and try and justify the Wild trades by how well the players are turning out in the short term (and indeed, that COULD be a way of looking at things), but moving forward into next season will be real telling and no matter how you slice it, when you have valuable and skilled players such as Granlund, Zucker, Spurgeon, etc.... a GM NEEDS TO GET MAXIMUM value for them!


8 or 9 out of 10 GM's, I am pretty sure, would have gotten MORE for Granlund. Period.

Fenton can't rely on making weird trades and hoping they all turn out like the Donato-Coyle, or the Fiala-Granlund (again, so far) ones did.

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Granlund us overrated in Minnesota by a lot. Fiala was a top 10 talent that needed a place to play, you can see his playmaking ability. Granlund was proven to leave goals on the ice to try and make a pass.

 

Coyle flashed but man Donato looks fast and dynamic. 

 

Nino was my favorite player but I thought he was hurt this year, he didnt go into the corners and couldn't score if Rask wasn't hurt we could see more of what he had.

 

If Fiala turns into a stud are you going to look back and say damn I'm glad Fenton didn't hold out for that 3rd round pick.

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2 hours ago, TonyOday said:

Granlund us overrated in Minnesota by a lot. Fiala was a top 10 talent that needed a place to play, you can see his playmaking ability. Granlund was proven to leave goals on the ice to try and make a pass.

 

Coyle flashed but man Donato looks fast and dynamic. 

 

Nino was my favorite player but I thought he was hurt this year, he didnt go into the corners and couldn't score if Rask wasn't hurt we could see more of what he had.

 

If Fiala turns into a stud are you going to look back and say damn I'm glad Fenton didn't hold out for that 3rd round pick.

I really like the way Fiala and Donato put pressure on defenders by aggressively attacking high danger areas.  Both are able to make plays at full speed.  Love Granny, but his M O was to slow the game down to create scoring chances for others, rarely himself.  And  most of all, Donato and Fiala  have displayed a goal scorers mentaility..... not passing up quality shooting opportunities.   Both have outstanding releases.  Whether they become top notch finishers remains to be seen.

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Loving Fiala right now. Kid has so much upside. Donato too. Aside from the Nino trace Fenton appears to know what the hell he is doing. Early obviously but so far so good 

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Chaulie finally got his first point since February 5. An assist. He’s rolling 😎

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Not sure this is the best place for this, but...

 

Player GM G A PTS  + / - Cap Hit ($M) FA
Coyle 10 1 1 2 0  $           3.20 UFA 20/21
Niederreitter 24 11 10 21 5  $           5.25 UFA 22/23
Granlund 6 1 3 4 -3  $           5.75 UFA 20/21
Totals 40 13 14 27 2  $        14.20  
               
Donato 11 2 7 9 4  $           0.90  RFA 19/20
Rask 12 1 1 2 -1  $           4.00 UFA 22/23
Fiala 8 2 0 2 -4  $           0.86 RFA 19/20
  31 5 8 13 -1  $           5.76  
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, IllaZilla said:

Not sure this is the best place for this, but...

Take Nino and Donato out and it's basically the same.

Give Donato the same amount of games (as Nino) and the points could be comparable.

Fenton could see it this way and feel justified in the $ savings for the summer plans...

 

Edited by ClusterChuck

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